Seized engine in D4 - what are my steps from here?

[Thomas27488]

Morning all,

Back story - D4 2011, driving along the freeway engine shutdown mid-drive, a slight shudder 10km's before, no other warning signs/lights etc.

Just got off the phone to the mechanic, said that the engine is totally seized. Can't even make it budge.
Without starting to take the engine apart, he can't know if its a water loss or oil loss issue.

Either way, i'm a bit stuck at the moment now with a D4 with a seized engine.

Looking for advice on what I should do from here, or what others have done?

I was planning on selling it anyway as I am heading off around Australia in February (in a Toyota coaster). Not sure if its worth finding a new engine, putting it in, and then selling, or trying to sell as is?

(I'm located on Central Coast NSW - car currently in Sydney incase anyone is interested)

[shack]

That is really odd.

If it was oil, the light should have come on.

If it was water, the gauge would have gone up.

It's possible it's spun a bearing and then locked up.

If it is actually seized, then it's possibly best to sell as is, it would likely cost most of the value of the car to fix it.

[Tins]

If it is actually seized, then it's possibly best to sell as is, it would likely cost most of the value of the car to fix it.

Plus, getting it fixed and sold between now and Feb could be a challenge.

[loanrangie]

If its a 2.7 start looking for a territory motor, 3.0L start crying in your beer for the upcoming 20-30k bill.
Or do a 2.7 long motor swap .

[Thomas27488]

That is really odd.

If it was oil, the light should have come on.

If it was water, the gauge would have gone up.

It's possible it's spun a bearing and then locked up.

If it is actually seized, then it's possibly best to sell as is, it would likely cost most of the value of the car to fix it.

Thanks Shack. Unfortunately i'm not with the car, and because its not driving, its a little difficult to diagnose or even get a second opinion.

Hmm.

[Thomas27488]

If its a 2.7 start looking for a territory motor, 3.0L start crying in your beer for the upcoming 20-30k bill.
Or do a 2.7 long motor swap .

Excellent news, its the 3.0L.

[loanrangie]

Excellent news, its the 3.0L.

Certainly not an easy exercise but 3L engines are hard to come by used and expensive to buy new.

[Thomas27488]

Certainly not an easy exercise but 3L engines are hard to come by used and expensive to buy new.

And a rebuild?

Wouldn't happen to know the damage on that?

[loanrangie]

And a rebuild?

Wouldn't happen to know the damage on that?

Not many companies rebuild these but looking at 20K plus.

[Thomas27488]

ok.

So after a bit of research and calling around my options are:

New (second hand) engine, 46,000km, installed for $21k. Sell the car for $20-24k, alot of hassle, and out of pocket $-1k to +$3k. (not to mention what it actually owes me)

Call in the wreckers to take it for $1500.

Try to sell it to someone who can fix it, for whatever they are willing to pay for it - i suspect not much more then what a wrecker would pay.

Fortunately, the car is owned outright, but doesn't help the situation.

[Tins]

Deleted

[Tins]

Is a TDV8 swap a viable option?

[Thomas27488]

Is a TDV8 swap a viable option?

I don't know enough about LR's to know if thats an option, maybe someone on here might?

[Tins]

I don't know enough about LR's to know if thats an option, maybe someone on here might?

Oh, it can be, and has been, done. The D4 and RRS are not too distant cousins. And what a car a V8 D4 would be. Viability comes down to economics from your standpoint.

[loanrangie]

I don't know enough about LR's to know if thats an option, maybe someone on here might?

If you want a project and don't need the car in hurry it can be done, wont be any cheaper than a stock repair/replacement.

[Tins]

wont be any cheaper than a stock repair/replacement.

No. But it will result in a better car if done properly, which would make it a keeper.

[scarry]

No. But it will result in a better car if done properly, which would make it a keeper.

The OP wants to move the car on anyway.

I would just cut the losses and sell it as is,not worth doing anything with it unless he can do it himself.

[Tins]

There was a member on here. Glenn ( grinna1965 ) who did imaginative conversions, quite professionally. Haven't seen him for a couple of years, but he might be worth chatting with. He was near Port Macquarie. Momentum 4X4 I think was his business name.

Doesn't cost anything to chat.

[haydent]

TDV8 might be harder to find... 3.6 TDI V8 engine overheated best option rebuild or (try) to find replacement engine (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l320-range-rover-sport/293302-3-6-tdi-v8-engine-overheated-best-option-rebuild-try-find-replacement-engine.html)

I would think there would be at least 5k+ worth in it in parts if you parted it out or sold to someone who was going to or fix it.

Maybe drop the pan off and piston end caps if possible to see where its seized ?

[Tins]

The OP wants to move the car on anyway.

I would just cut the losses and sell it as is,not worth doing anything with it unless he can do it himself.

Of course. It's just that a rushed sale would probably realise practically nothing. Just presenting options, which was what was asked for. Between now and Feb it seems the only decision is to do what you suggest, or park it up and deal with it upon return. Or let some indie tinker with it in his spare time.

[mowog]

Is a TDV8 swap a viable option?

It has been done. It cost a LOT to do with some issues that can't be solved as the Car Identifies as a Range Rover Sport.

[haydent]

just noticed this from op :)

(I'm located on Central Coast NSW - car currently in Sydney incase anyone is interested)

[haydent]

It has been done. It cost a LOT to do with some issues that can't be solved as the Car Identifies as a Range Rover Sport.

yeah, just buy an l320 tdv8 instead

[Tins]

Is a TDV8 swap a viable option?

So I guess we've established that in the OP's circumstances the answer to my question is no.

[Tins]

yeah, just buy an l320 tdv8 instead

They aren't the same thing. D4 is a way better tourer.

[Thomas27488]

Thanks everyone for the input, and by all means keep it coming.

Still weighing up options, but leaning towards a quick sale.

It's such a shame, anyone who has driven one of these will understand what a pleasure they are to drive.

And here i was thinking I was simplifying my problems when up/downgrading from a Defender Td5.

[Tins]

It's such a shame, anyone who has driven one of these will understand what a pleasure they are to drive.



Around 20 months ago I had a short list for my overlander/tourer. Spend lots on my D2. Buy a D4. Buy a 130 and get a Mulgo conversion. Or buy an OKA. The first two were crossed off the list because I would need either a rooftop tent ( YUCK ), or a camper trailer. I have done enough towing. But I look wistfully at every D3/4 I see. Crossing them off was so tough a decision because no big 4WD has any right to drive like that.

[Jeffoir]

Tins said: "...I look wistfully at every D3/4 I see. Crossing them off was so tough a decision because no big 4WD has any right to drive like that."

My sentiments exactly.
What you have endured is a real bugger. I feel your pain. I've been there. So perhaps think about this LONG ENGINE at TR SPares Adelaide (https://triumphroverspares.com.au/product/tdv6-long-engine-complete/). $9,900.
Best wishes, I hope it works out.
Jeff

[Discodicky]

And a rebuild?

Wouldn't happen to know the damage on that?

Talk to Automotive Skills at Kirrawee in Sth Sydney.
They are LR/RR experts and advertise reco engines.

[ATH]

"But I look wistfully at every D3/4 I see. Crossing them off was so tough a decision because no big 4WD has any right to drive like that." I understand the feeling. We love (wife still loves Defenders more though :) ) the D4s ride and power for towing but at 6 years old now and having read so many horror stories I'm changing vehicles and have ordered a Prado. Yes I know they without character etc etc and have their own faults, but maybe having to replace the Discos engine with some dubiously refurbished one from somewhere at enormous cost, does not appeal to me. Plus having gone down to one car as the wife no longer drives, that would makes things even worse.
I just maybe go for a D3OO Defender but can't really see another 50 grands worth of value in them.
Here's hoping the OP gets his fixed at a reasonable price and ours last until the new vehicle arrives in maybe a year or so......
AlanH.

[Tins]

"But I look wistfully at every D3/4 I see. Crossing them off was so tough a decision because no big 4WD has any right to drive like that." I understand the feeling. We love (wife still loves Defenders more though :) ) the D4s ride and power for towing but at 6 years old now and having read so many horror stories I'm changing vehicles and have ordered a Prado. Yes I know they without character etc etc and have their own faults, but maybe having to replace the Discos engine with some dubiously refurbished one from somewhere at enormous cost, does not appeal to me. Plus having gone down to one car as the wife no longer drives, that would makes things even worse.
I just maybe go for a D3OO Defender but can't really see another 50 grands worth of value in them.
Here's hoping the OP gets his fixed at a reasonable price and ours last until the new vehicle arrives in maybe a year or so......
AlanH.

Can't say I blame you, Alan. I went the other way with the OKA, as it's self contained, and is mechanically very simple. Perkins engine has the injector pump as a 300TDi, and all the turning things are American truck so anyone can fix them. I hope I have a few years left to use it, and I don't have a wife ( I laugh to think of her reaction if I'd brought the OKA home while she was still here :censored::censored::censored::censored: ) so travelling solo means I need simplicity and above all reliability. The thought of being stuck, like the OP, with limited funds is the stuff of nightmares ( I'd feel the same with a new Defender Form over function doesn't do it for me, unless it's a Ferrari ). So when the OKA moves on I'll probably buy a KIA or something.

If only LR had put the TDV8 in the D4 from new....

PS, what's the wait for the Prado? My DIL wants one, or a Y62. Yes, she's nuts. She married my son.

[mowog]

It's such a shame, anyone who has driven one of these will understand what a pleasure they are to drive.



I have spent a significant amount of money on my 2010 3L D4. It started with needing a new Radiator and escalated from there. 2 New Turbo's and LOTS of other things while the body was off. I looked at buying something else at one stage but there is nothing that comes close except for another new Land Rover and I can't afford that. I did have a new Defender on order until I was made redundant. I am at 265,000 klm on my D4 and it is just an awesome bloody thing to drive.

[ATH]

"PS, what's the wait for the Prado? My DIL wants one, or a Y62. "
What's a Y62? Something from Tojo? Really must get googling some things I haven't heard of before but feel strangely sort of "couldn't care less" about so much these days. Must be soemthing to do with being well into my 8th decade. :)
Anyway, Prado wait times are approx 12 months much the same as the Defender. All Putins fault or something.
I've ordered a flat back as although it cuts tank capacity I hate the spare wheel indentation in the rear door if an RWC is fitted. Plus as fuel is available in so many places these days it's not so much of a problem a couple of jerries on the roof can't fix.
We had a 120 series Prado moons ago, not exciting but reliable and will do what we want. Terrible mismatch between engine and 4 speed box but the new transmission should be better.
AlanH.

[Slunnie]

What's a Y62?

Its the current Patrol. I like these a lot. They're big, strong, powerful but thirsty.

[Tins]

What's a Y62? Something from Tojo?

Nissan. One of those huge petrol V8 Patrols. Long way from the Ranger she drives now.


All Putins fault or something.

Everything is, apparently.


I've ordered a flat back as although it cuts tank capacity I hate the spare wheel indentation in the rear door if an RWC is fitted.

I didn't know you could do that. I agree, I hate that look.


Plus as fuel is available in so many places these days


As long as such things remain allowed.

[Tins]

Its the current Patrol. I like these a lot. They're big, strong, powerful but thirsty.

And they make such a "Supercar" noise!

Son has a Y61 TD42 auto ( converted from one of those 3.0 hand grenades ). Boy, is he in for a surprise if she gets one.

[loanrangie]

Its the current Patrol. I like these a lot. They're big, strong, powerful but thirsty.

With a look only a mother could love [bigrolf].

[Tins]

With a look only a mother could love [bigrolf].

Maybe so, but still better than the rest of the Oriental offerings... Pajero Sport, anybody?

[scarry]

Maybe so, but still better than the rest of the Oriental offerings... Pajero Sport, anybody?

One of my Brothers has had one for a few years now,loves it,and no issues.

He has a place on Fraser,so always over there,he did change the suspension to get a bit more clearence,though,it is a bit low for the soft sand.

[scarry]

[I]
Terrible mismatch between engine and 4 speed box but the new transmission should be better.
AlanH.

Better,but no where near as sorted as the ZF.A good tuner will sort it.

The box in the 200 is no where near as smart either,we had ours tickled by a good tuner,so much better.

[Tins]

One of my Brothers has had one for a few years now,loves it,and no issues.

He has a place on Fraser,so always over there,he did change the suspension to get a bit more clearence,though,it is a bit low for the soft sand.

My comment referred to the looks only. There's one running around here with a large white sticker in the rear window: "I don't like the tail lights either". Admittedly, the current one has improved that... a little.

Still, styling is subjective. For instance, I like the Kia Stinger GT.

[scarry]

For instance, I like the Kia Stinger GT.

Hmm,yes,mate has a new one,looks fantastic and goes like a cut snake😊

I said to SWMBO one of those is the go,but she wants a TESLA......one day,maybe bla bla[bighmmm]

[ozscott]

"But I look wistfully at every D3/4 I see. Crossing them off was so tough a decision because no big 4WD has any right to drive like that." I understand the feeling. We love (wife still loves Defenders more though :) ) the D4s ride and power for towing but at 6 years old now and having read so many horror stories I'm changing vehicles and have ordered a Prado. Yes I know they without character etc etc and have their own faults, but maybe having to replace the Discos engine with some dubiously refurbished one from somewhere at enormous cost, does not appeal to me. Plus having gone down to one car as the wife no longer drives, that would makes things even worse.
I just maybe go for a D3OO Defender but can't really see another 50 grands worth of value in them.
Here's hoping the OP gets his fixed at a reasonable price and ours last until the new vehicle arrives in maybe a year or so......
AlanH.My my money Allen the trouble with sinking that cash into a new Defender is not being able to trust the new motors they are producing any more than the older crop. I had a good look inside a new Defender today (only because I saw on at a shopping centre) and it looks a million dollars. Very special interior like all LR's. But for me another 5 years and a lot of miles on some and then I will compare that to an Ineos and make a decision on a long term vehicle then. In the meantime the lack of worry and the reliability of the Triton is a thing of beauty in a different way...and one I have grown very fond of.

Cheers

[gavinwibrow]

My my money Allen the trouble with sinking that cash into a new Defender is not being able to trust the new motors they are producing any more than the older crop. I had a good look inside a new Defender today (only because I saw on at a shopping centre) and it looks a million dollars. Very special interior like all LR's. But for me another 5 years and a lot of miles on some and then I will compare that to an Ineos and make a decision on a long term vehicle then. In the meantime the lack of worry and the reliability of the Triton is a thing of beauty in a different way...and one I have grown very fond of.

Cheers



The Triton is a very underrated machine. My SiL has one that he has unsuccessfully tried to destroy over the last 5 plus years ie he works it hard on and off road.
Getting used to the looks of the new one now too.

[101RRS]

I am not sure this line of discussion is much help to the OP in determining the way ahead in replacing his engine. These 3.0 engine posts always seem to soon digress to put in a TDV8 - not helpful for most people, then digress elsewhere at a time when we have an anxious OP trying to work out what to do.

[scarry]

In the meantime the lack of worry and the reliability of the Triton is a thing of beauty in a different way...and one I have grown very fond of.

Cheers

Until one actually has something like the Triton,and drives it every day,relies on it,has no issues,they won’t realise how good they are.
After 20 yrs of LR’s,over 30yrs of owning a fleet of Jap work vans,that did millions of K’s,and now the LC,IMHO,there is just no comparison.

[Discodicky]

"But I look wistfully at every D3/4 I see. Crossing them off was so tough a decision because no big 4WD has any right to drive like that." I understand the feeling. We love (wife still loves Defenders more though :) ) the D4s ride and power for towing but at 6 years old now and having read so many horror stories I'm changing vehicles and have ordered a Prado. Yes I know they without character etc etc and have their own faults, but maybe having to replace the Discos engine with some dubiously refurbished one from somewhere at enormous cost, does not appeal to me. Plus having gone down to one car as the wife no longer drives, that would makes things even worse.
I just maybe go for a D3OO Defender but can't really see another 50 grands worth of value in them.
Here's hoping the OP gets his fixed at a reasonable price and ours last until the new vehicle arrives in maybe a year or so......
AlanH.

I see where you are coming from.... it's the "anticipation" worrying if you'll be an unlucky one.

Realistically, the Prado is half the car of a D3/4 and if you can tolerate that awful transmission after being spoilt with a ZF.... I see the Chinese are smart enough to use the ZF 8 speeder in the LDV ute range. I once had a new 2019 Isuzu MUX with the Aisin 6 speed auto a la Prado/Hilux/Musso and after 12 months sold it simply 'cos I hated that tranny. It never knows which gear it wants to be in and slips the convertor "a lot".

If you are paranoid about a crankshaft failure, you'd be far better off having a new shaft and bearings fitted to your engine now, at your leisure so to speak, without inconvenience. Financially would be far more cost effective, given the changeover price to a new Prado and the fact that in every department, the Disco is a far better vehicle.

Worth a thought?

[DazzaTD5]

I am not sure this line of discussion is much help to the OP in determining the way ahead in replacing his engine. not helpful for most people, then digress elsewhere at a time when we have an anxious OP trying to work out what to do.

Yes I'd rather see the posters or admin delete the completely irrelevant posts, as in what people want to buy next is of no concern to any owner of YET another D4 with a failed engine. what happens is good options or relevant comments get lost in all the BS.

Start a new thread "what am i going to buy next"

[BradC]

If we can get the posters to voluntarily remove their content I'll happily go through and delete the posts (including mine). I can't however go and just delete off topic posts no matter how much I might want to.

[Tins]

Threads go where they go. They always do, Nobody owns them, as much as some want to.

I introduced the TDV8 to this one in a serious attempt to help. I don't know if it's easy or difficult, but the OP is faced with either a huge repair bill or a huge loss, so any option should be on the table. Sorry if that upsets some ( not really ).

Only the OP can know if the thread has contained info helpful to him. Who knows what he has gleaned from it? HE does, not you, and not me.

Any attempt to control what people post, or what direction a thread takes, would fly in the face of the spirit of AULRO, and IMO would be an abuse of power. This thread will die a natural death, as they all do. If the OP has gained anything from it then it has been worthwhile.

BTW, the sentiments expressed by some here is exactly why I tried to get a Sticky going in TGO for D3/4 engine swaps ( ok, 2.7, but no reason it couldn't expand to 3.0 ), but nobody complaining here seemed to be interested in having a central place to seek info without the digressions. Well, except for Dazza.

My two bob is worth the same as the next bloke's, and there it is.

[ATH]

[QUOTE=DazzaTD5;3175346]Yes I'd rather see the posters or admin delete the completely irrelevant posts, as in what people want to buy next is of no concern to any owner of YET another D4 with a failed engine. what happens is good options or relevant comments get lost in all the BS.

I think it shows peoples disappointment at having to even consider getting rid of their Discovery rather than boasting about their proposed new vehicle or what they're getting instead. It's not a decision I've made lightly, I'm ****ing ****ed off that LR haven't fixed what seems to be a bad design fault and don't make replacement motors.
And what are all over paid consumer affairs seat polishers doing about this? Sweet FA that's what, much the same as they do with much other stuff people pay lots of hard earned for and it stuffs up after a very short life.
AlanH.

[timdo1]

I'm going to throw my 2 bob in and suggest the petrol V8. I know they are thirstier, but at the different price in fuel at the moment its not noticeable. But they are reliable, plenty of power and dont stop.

Not sure how many V8 petrols in D4 in Australia.

JUst my 2 cents worth.

[loanrangie]

I'm going to throw my 2 bob in and suggest the petrol V8. I know they are thirstier, but at the different price in fuel at the moment its not noticeable. But they are reliable, plenty of power and dont stop.

Not sure how many V8 petrols in D4 in Australia.

JUst my 2 cents worth.

Pretty useless info since the op has a 3.0ltr with a dead engine, he's not about to convert it to petrol .

[scarry]

I'm ****ing ****ed off that LR haven't fixed what seems to be a bad design fault.


I cant believe a manufacturer would continue selling vehicles with a known engine design fault over numerous model runs,and many years,without doing something about it.

Surprisingly,they have not ended up with some sort of class action against them.

Just imagine if that was a another brand,such as a Ranger,Triton,Hi Lux,LC,Patrol, or whatever.
The media would be full of complaints,and class actions would be flying around all over the place.

And those on about other vehicles,a Prado cannot be compared to a D4,completely different vehicle,in a different class.
The comparable new vehicles to a D4 are some of LR's crop of offerings,and the Y62,and L300.

[Tins]

Just imagine if that was a another brand,such as a Ranger,Triton,Hi Lux,LC,Patrol, or whatever.
The media would be full of complaints,and class actions would be flying around all over the place.



I guess that tells you something about the relevance of Land Rover these days, at least in this country.

[ozscott]

Pretty useless info since the op has a 3.0ltr with a dead engine, he's not about to convert it to petrol .He might well sell for parts and get another Land Rover with a petrol motor.

Cheers

[Tins]

he's not about to convert it to petrol .

Stranger things have happened.

[scarry]

I guess that tells you something about the relevance of Land Rover these days, at least in this country.

True,but it has been happening all over the world.

It also shows how they treat their customers.

[Tins]

It also shows how they treat their customers.

Maybe there's a causal link in there.

[John_D4]

Thomas27488 (OP) - I’m wondering what you’re thinking of doing/have done after all this advice

[DazzaTD5]

Threads go where they go. They always do, Nobody owns them, as much as some want to.

I introduced the TDV8 to this one in a serious attempt to help. I don't know if it's easy or difficult, but the OP is faced with either a huge repair bill or a huge loss, so any option should be on the table. Sorry if that upsets some ( not really ).

Only the OP can know if the thread has contained info helpful to him. Who knows what he has gleaned from it? HE does, not you, and not me.

Any attempt to control what people post, or what direction a thread takes, would fly in the face of the spirit of AULRO, and IMO would be an abuse of power. This thread will die a natural death, as they all do. If the OP has gained anything from it then it has been worthwhile.

BTW, the sentiments expressed by some here is exactly why I tried to get a Sticky going in TGO for D3/4 engine swaps ( ok, 2.7, but no reason it couldn't expand to 3.0 ), but nobody complaining here seemed to be interested in having a central place to seek info without the digressions. Well, except for Dazza.

My two bob is worth the same as the next bloke's, and there it is.

I do believe you are right in everything you say...
it would be as you say not in the spirit of AULRO to control or delete comments, regardless of how irrelevant it might be. I retract my previous thought (but not deleting the comment)

Yes I do love a good sticky, full of info and fact without all the BS [tonguewink]

[haydent]

Why not swap the dead 3.0 for 2.7 from Territory ?

[RickO]

Why not swap the dead 3.0 for 2.7 from Territory ?

As explained many times in many threads this is not worthwhile due to different wiring etc.

Cheers Rick

[loanrangie]

As explained many times in many threads this is not worthwhile due to different wiring etc.

Cheers RickNot quite, it has already been done at least a few times. You use the 2.7 long block and fit all the gear from the 3.0 - you won't miss the 300cc.

[Slunnie]

I thought the 2.7's were just as prone to the same thing???

[ozscott]

I thought the 2.7's were just as prone to the same thing???I thought the only difference in longevity between 2.7 from a territory and 2.7 from a Land Rover amounted to the weight difference (maybe cooling also?) between the 2 vehicles. But yep there seems to be the same weakness with 2.7 and 3.0. Cheers

[loanrangie]

I thought the 2.7's were just as prone to the same thing???Yes and no, the main issue is the cost to replace a 3.0 compared to the more common 2.7. There are no other donor vehicles apart from an RRS .

[haydent]

How would you search for / identify the right territory engine / model ? does it have a name or car / engine code / model ?

[shack]

How would you search for / identify the right territory engine / model ? does it have a name or car / engine code / model ?TDCI stamped on the bum.

The 2.7 engine seems to be much more reliable than the 3.0, certainly not bulletproof but there are plenty with 4-500k km on them.

I've not heard of a re powered 2.7 from a territory letting go, no doubt I'll be the first!

Biggest fault on the 2.7 is the timing belt idler, then spun bearing, then snapped crank, but the last 2 are probably a "first one then the other" situation.

[haydent]

I checked wikipedia and it seems the only diesel territory engine listed?! car model SZ, they are cheap on ebay [bigsmile] also didnt realise it was an australian made line

182909

[loanrangie]

I checked wikipedia and it seems the only diesel territory engine listed?! car model SZ, they are cheap on ebay [bigsmile] also didnt realise it was an australian made line

182909

Yes only one model from 2011 til they stopped in 2016/17, you didnt realise the terri was an aussie designed and built vehcile ?

[Hoges]

I thought the 2.7's were just as prone to the same thing???

From other sources it was said that the 2.7L proposed for the Territory was deemed inferior by Ford engineers who specified a redesigned crankshaft and other mods. Hence the apparently increased reliability of the Territory.... well that's my current understanding![bighmmm]

[ozscott]

From other sources it was said that the 2.7L proposed for the Territory was deemed inferior by Ford engineers who specified a redesigned crankshaft and other mods. Hence the apparently increased reliability of the Territory.... well that's my current understanding![bighmmm]Hoges if that is accurate it would be a window into LR thinking at the time (and since). Cheers

[Graeme]

A family member as a rep of a Ford supplier visited the Ford site when engineers had a new LR 2.7 engine stripped down. At the time the engineers weren't very pleased with what they saw but I don't recall hearing anything specific.

[Discodicky]

There are a few very interesting articles on the FB site called "Discovery 4 Crank Failing" in the UK. One article by JPSK Motors Pty Ltd is well worth a read. Essentially, they are of the opinion the problem can be traced to the extended oil change periods and/or incorrect oil being used.

[Slunnie]

There are a few very interesting articles on the FB site called "Discovery 4 Crank Failing" in the UK. One article by JPSK Motors Pty Ltd is well worth a read. Essentially, they are of the opinion the problem can be traced to the extended oil change periods and/or incorrect oil being used.

Thats interesting. A friend (not on here) who worked for JLR was also saying that the TDV6 absolutely has to have oil changes done on time.

[ozscott]

There are a few very interesting articles on the FB site called "Discovery 4 Crank Failing" in the UK. One article by JPSK Motors Pty Ltd is well worth a read. Essentially, they are of the opinion the problem can be traced to the extended oil change periods and/or incorrect oil being used.I am not sure if that is correct in all cases (given a few members on here with failures with were fastidiously about oil changes) then it still shows how close to the line they run at the best of times...ie still a weak design. No better than the D2 V8 but with a pretty big difference in repair costs unfortunately. Cheers

[incisor]

lots of them die within a couple thousand klms of a service / oil change and there are more than a few people that believe the quality of the oil filter and its fitment has something to do with it as well.

[incisor]

From other sources it was said that the 2.7L proposed for the Territory was deemed inferior by Ford engineers who specified a redesigned crankshaft and other mods. Hence the apparently increased reliability of the Territory.... well that's my current understanding![bighmmm]

think you'll find that relates to the f series trucks from what i have seen discussed.

there are a few differences re territory setup vs lr setup, including a heavier flywheel on the territory, the use of the 6r80 gearbox which locks up in every gear and the weight differences in the vehicles themselves.

[Slunnie]

A family member as a rep of a Ford supplier visited the Ford site when engineers had a new LR 2.7 engine stripped down. At the time the engineers weren't very pleased with what they saw but I don't recall hearing anything specific.

Sounds like a good reason to replace blown LR 2.7's with Territory motors assuming they are built differently.

[scarry]

There are a few very interesting articles on the FB site called "Discovery 4 Crank Failing" in the UK. One article by JPSK Motors Pty Ltd is well worth a read. Essentially, they are of the opinion the problem can be traced to the extended oil change periods and/or incorrect oil being used.

The new/old engine in the latest Ranger,an updated Lion engine is specified at 15,00Km,a lot shorter intervals than LR's 26,000Km.

Yet the newish LR Diesel Ingenium engines still have rediculously long drainage intervals,and problems.

Most manufacturers are at around 15,000Km/12 months,which seems to be the industry standard.

[Slunnie]

The new/old engine in the latest Ranger,an updated Lion engine is specified at 15,00Km,a lot shorter intervals than LR's 26,000Km.

Yet the newish LR Diesel Ingenium engines still have rediculously long drainage intervals,and problems.

Most manufacturers are at around 15,000Km/12 months,which seems to be the industry standard.

26,000km! No wonder they blow up.

I might be old school by now, I still like 10,000km.

[ozscott]

Is the long interval applicable even in arduous conditions (which some manufacturers, wisely, say includes both towing and peak hour conditions for a significant percentage of time in warm conditions etc)? Cheers

[scarry]

Is the long interval applicable even in arduous conditions (which some manufacturers, wisely, say includes both towing and peak hour conditions for a significant percentage of time in warm conditions etc)? Cheers

For the D2/3/4,ardious is half those distances and times.

We were doing a lot of work with the new synthetic Castrol Refrigeration oils,so we got to know the oil testers pretty well.At the time i had the TD5 D2a,running Castrol engine oil.
Quite a few times i had the engine oil tested,and at 15,000Km,they generally said can be left if you want.I once left it until 20,000Km,as the test at 15,000 came back not bad,and they said it is OK,but a change is needed ASAP.
LR at the time were quoting 20,000Km intervals for the TD5.

What the tester did say is the Disco oil at 15,000Km,was in better condition, than his TD 4.2L Patrol at 3,000Km.[biggrin]

Our D4 was always done at 10,000Km,which is same as every Tojo vehicle i have ever had,although Tojo do say you can go 5,000Km over and it will not affect warranty,and it is written in the service manual.

[Tombie]

You sure LR said 20k… that’s not what my old servicing literature states…

10,000km intervals with 20,000k intervals on the secondary oil filter.



ALL metro used vehicles are arduous cycle.

[DiscoDB]

This is what you had previously stated scarry some time back.


I had my TD5 D2 oil tested by Castrol quite a few times,at 15 000km,and it was fine.
It was in better condition than one of the testers oil from his diesel GQ at 3 000km.

I had it tested at 20 000km a couple of times and the comment was it is still OK,but needs changing.

We were doing a lot of work with the newer,in those days,synthetic Castrol refrigeration oils,so i got to know the Castrol guys well.

The TD5 was brilliant - was more than happy with 20,000km oil changes for city use. But wouldn’t run as tight of tolerances as the TDV6 does.

[DiscoDB]

LR only went to 26,000kms or 12 months (which ever came first) for low sulphur content countries. For mod-sulphur content they used to still specify 13,000kms or 6 months max with MY10-11 (3.0).

Not convinced Australia should have been put in the low-sulphur group from MY12 on.

But I do wonder how many 3.0TDV6 that failed doing 12month servicing were doing more than 15,000-20,000kms between services.

[scarry]

This is what you had previously stated scarry some time back.



The TD5 was brilliant - was more than happy with 20,000km oil changes for city use. But wouldn’t run as tight of tolerances as the TDV6 does.

You are correct,i will change the other post[smilebigeye]

[shack]

lots of them die within a couple thousand klms of a service / oil change and there are more than a few people that believe the quality of the oil filter and its fitment has something to do with it as well.The effect of late oil changes is a cumulative thing, so saying that some have failed just after an oil change doesn't mean anything, I'm pretty sure that's not what you were meaning but thought I'd clarify!!

It's obviously the accumulated earlier damage that's at fault

An oil filter that drains back the oil can be an issue though for sure.

As regards extended drain intervals, a lot of this is simply to do with emissions requirements, unfortunately the engine has to take one for the team!

Of course no one factors in the emissions cost of having to build a new engine or car because the old one has failed, due to trying to meet emissions requirements.

The discovery 2 oil filtration system is not to be confused with a normal(any other) car.

Jap diesels were traditionally filthy compared to basically any one else, plenty of (very) late oil changes requiring either removal of the sump, or filling with diesel, running.. Then dropping again due to carbon saturation making the oil like grease.

I've seen a Hilux blow the filter off the block because of clagged oil, that one had plenty of oil pressure but not much flow!

No doubt newer ones are not like this.

Cheers
James

[Tins]

I've seen a Hilux blow the filter off the block because of clagged oil, that one had plenty of oil pressure but not much flow!



Pretty spectacular way to prove that one is a function of the other.

[Tins]

Not convinced Australia should have been put in the low-sulphur group from MY12 on.



IIRC, neither was Scania back in 16. Dunno if that's changed.

[haydent]

Yes only one model from 2011 til they stopped in 2016/17, you didnt realise the terri was an aussie designed and built vehcile ?

no, im not traditionally a car guy

whats interesting is that D3 came out in 2004, and the territory 2.7 came out in 2011, so thats 7 years, but they would have been planning on using the 2.7 for a year or 2 at least, im sure in that 5 year gap they would have had plenty of engine failure, im pretty sure there are several accounts here of engines with that sort of low km popping.

would be good if they did work out how to make it stronger or last longer...

[BradC]

had a google found this too, but seems a bit wishful thinking this could offer much support to significantly larger block https://www.allfourx4.com.au/Engine-Block-Stiffener-Sump-Gasket-Discovery-Range-Rover-Diesel-V6-LR005994

It doesn't. The block has a significant ladder frame (stiffener) bolted to the bottom and the sump bolts to that. This is a gasket for the block side of that frame..

[haydent]

It doesn't. The block has a significant ladder frame (stiffener) bolted to the bottom and the sump bolts to that. This is a gasket for the block side of that frame..

ah my bad, thanks, i removed that bit.

[loanrangie]

no, im not traditionally a car guy

whats interesting is that D3 came out in 2004, and the territory 2.7 came out in 2011, so thats 7 years, but they would have been planning on using the 2.7 for a year or 2 at least, im sure in that 5 year gap they would have had plenty of engine failure, im pretty sure there are several accounts here of engines with that sort of low km popping.

would be good if they did work out how to make it stronger or last longer...


By the time Ford oz got hold of the 2.7 it had just finished being fitted to the D4 and was well sorted, very few failures in the D4 or Territory, a mate was working at Ford and i saw a TDV6 fitted Territory in 2009 driving around our area.

[lr4]

My Disco4 3.0 litre has seized also.
would appreciate any suggestion on repairers for rebuild or engine replacement? I am located in Albany WA, car is stuck in Perth
anyone know what the availability of used 3.0 motors is like?
thanks

[PerthDisco]

My Disco4 3.0 litre has seized also.
would appreciate any suggestion on repairers for rebuild or engine replacement? I am located in Albany WA, car is stuck in Perth
anyone know what the availability of used 3.0 motors is like?
thanks

Sad news but was this due to overheating going by a previous post?

[haydent]

My Disco4 3.0 litre has seized also.
would appreciate any suggestion on repairers for rebuild or engine replacement? I am located in Albany WA, car is stuck in Perth
anyone know what the availability of used 3.0 motors is like?
thanks

summary of this whole thread (assuming you cant rebuild yourself): replacement 3.0 rare and expensive, likely more than is worth spending on car, LR 2.7 is not much better, but 2.7 from Territory (same engine apart from ancillaries that can be swapped) is potentially more reliable and a lot cheaper ~$3k , swapping from 3.0 to 2.7 is apparently not a big deal: Seized engine in D4 - what are my steps from here? (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/293557-seized-engine-d4-what-my-steps-here-post3176666.html#post3176666)
and TDV8 maybe worse cost and availability issues but added power and reliability, but more involved in the swap

swapping an engine of same type requires a "authorised examiner inspection" im not sure if swapping engine types (within factory options) would require engineering certificate ?

[lr4]

Sad news but was this due to overheating going by a previous post?

No it wasn’t due to overheating