Water in the sump

[Mustlust]

Started dismantling a 2.0 spread bore yesterday. The sump needs a serious amount of work to get anywhere near the original shape, and when draining, clear water gushed out before cleanish oil. The engine has probably been sitting for decades under the bonnet and I’m guessing that the water must be from the cooling system somewhere. The head gasket and piston liners are in excellent condition and there is no sign of corrosion under the tappet cover, although surface corrosion is evident in the cavity below the head and on the crank.
Where should I start looking for a leak?
Also, how hard is it to drill out and replace the timing cover bolts?

[LRJim]

Started dismantling a 2.0 spread bore yesterday. The sump needs a serious amount of work to get anywhere near the original shape, and when draining, clear water gushed out before cleanish oil. The engine has probably been sitting for decades under the bonnet and I’m guessing that the water must be from the cooling system somewhere. The head gasket and piston liners are in excellent condition and there is no sign of corrosion under the tappet cover, although surface corrosion is evident in the cavity below the head and on the crank.
Where should I start looking for a leak?
Also, how hard is it to drill out and replace the timing cover bolts?

In the decades of the engine sitting in the car has water managed to get into the carburettor via the air filter or another similar opening? Small hole in the bonnet slowly dripping into the carburettor, oil cap etc possibly? Had similar happen before on old cars and lawnmowers etc
Cheers

[1950landy]

If it is head gasket there should be signs on the gasket where the water has gone from the water jacket hole to one of the holes that drain oil back to the sump / were pushrods come through the gasket. I drought it has gone inti the cylinders if the pistons & bore have not been affected. The only other way I can think how the water got in there is if the vehicle had been under water at some stage/ someone poured water in the oil filler pipe / while vehicle had been sitting in storage if the breather / oil filler cap & bonnet had been left off & rainwater had got in the sump. Just a side story, I bought a Rover P3 75 (same motor only a 6cyl) once found the same issue, the vehicle had been last registered in 1974, could not find why the water was in the sump & no corrosion internally in the engine, later when I drained the oil from the G/ box & Diff the same. On further research found the vehicle had come from an area that had been flooded in 1974 floods.Now with the timing chain cover bolts, have you broken them already? If not give them a good spray with WD40 then give them a hit on the head with a hammer, you may have to do this over a few days, you will need to break the corrosion seal between the steel bolt shaft & the alloy housing. Some of the bolts on the passenger's side you can also spray at the back where they come through the flange on the block the others go into blank holes. Once you start them moving wind them backwards & forwards as you screw them out. You could also try Freeze Off which will shrink the bolt & this can break the seal. On reassembly make sure you use Never Seize or Copper Coat on the bolts to prevent them seizing again.If they have broken, you will need to drill them out making sure you get correct centre & correct size drill, so you don't damage the thread in the block. The threads will be BSF so you will need BSF taps to clean up the threads once removed.GOOD LUCK WITH IT. Drilling out broken bolts is not one of my favourite jobs[bigsad]

[Tins]

Also, how hard is it to drill out and replace the timing cover bolts?

How hard do you want it to be? Everything 1950Landy says is true, and it's a job I would rather tackle with the engine on a bench, clear of all obstructions to ensure I was drilling square. A high quality, hard drill bit really helps as well. So does patience. Otherwise you'll be faffing around with coil inserts, something you don't want.

[Mustlust]

Thanks Gents,
Looks like some drilling ahead of me. Given that I have 3 engines to rebuild this year (my 2023 goal) what tap die sizes would I need for the engine, wheel hubs and other spots? I may as well clean anything that is a little rusty.

[Mustlust]

There is a second hand Whitworth tap and die set for sale locally. Is this a kit that I’d ever need for my S1 projects?

[JDNSW]

Whitworth is worth having for a Series 1 (or 2/2a for that matter), but many of the threads you want to clean up will be BSF. In my experience you will be very lucky to find sets of BSF taps and dies. But you can get single dies and taps (or can sometimes find them at swap meets, garage sales and op shops) from your tool shop even if they have to order them in. Whitworth sets and individual taps and dies are easy to find, just note that although UNC is similar to Whitworth in many sizes, it is not the same.

Taps and dies you will probably want include (from memory) 1/4", 5/16", 3/8", 9/16" (wheel studs).

You may also find you want 2BA and 4BA.

Although there will have been none of these when it left the factory, expect to find UNF and even metric used in repairs and replacements! (Some carburettor bits are metric, but I don't think they are ISO)

[1950landy]

You will need booth BSF & BSW / Whitworth taps & dies. About 5 years ago I found a cheap combination set of BSF & BSW on Ebay by an AU seller, from memory were under $50. Looking on Ebay now I could not find any at a reasonable price but could find BSF & BSW in separate sets. I would have put a photo of mine here but for some reason the last two days I have not been able to upload any photos.

[turkeybrain]

I ended up buying an Aprica branded BSF set from LPR Toolmakers. They offer a wide range of taps and dies, including Whitworth and BA.

Cheers,
Martin

[Tins]

You can get Whitworth spanners, sockets, tap and die sets and thread gauges from Amazon, if you're that way inclined. No idea of quality.



Whitworth: another word the stupid spell checker doesn't like.

[5380]

Started dismantling a 2.0 spread bore yesterday. The sump needs a serious amount of work to get anywhere near the original shape, and when draining, clear water gushed out before cleanish oil. The engine has probably been sitting for decades under the bonnet and I’m guessing that the water must be from the cooling system somewhere. The head gasket and piston liners are in excellent condition and there is no sign of corrosion under the tappet cover, although surface corrosion is evident in the cavity below the head and on the crank.
Where should I start looking for a leak?
Also, how hard is it to drill out and replace the timing cover bolts?

Mustlust,


Clear water usually comes in from outside. Rusty water comes from inside and is bad!. It does sound like you have checked the usual spots for leaks.

Garage/clearing sales and secondhand shops can be a good source for Whitworth / BS sized tools pus taps and dies.

SERIES 1 THREAD INFO.

The threads into the block and head castings are all BSF, mostly 1/4", 5/16", 3/8, plus 7/16", 1/2" etc. The exceptions are the spark plug holes M14 x 1.25 and the screw in water gallery plugs which are 1" conduit thread. Smaller threads are mostly 2BA (about 5mm dia.) commonly used on small fittings, Lucas electrical parts plus 4BA and 6BA. SU fuel pumps (mostly 2BA). Anything screwing into aluminium castings is Whitworth!

Fuel line fittings are mostly 1/4 BSP

Cast iron water pumps also have 5/16 W Whitworth threads in the inlet pipe flange threads - same as the aluminium pumps!

The Solex carb uses metric threads. Mostly M4 x 0.75, M5 x 0.75, M6 x 1 and M8 x 1 and M12 x 1.25 on the fuel inlet. The M4 amd M5 are the less common 0.75 pitch.

The brake fittings are all UNF, mostly 3/8-24 UNF or 7/16-20 UNF on 80" models with 1/4" brake pipes.

Don't hesitate to ask if you need further info on threads. Getting dead centre with a centre punch is critical. The drill bit size should be just under the root diameter of threads. Once you get yout hole started put the timing cover back on and use a tubing sleeve on the drill bit to keep it straight and protect the drilling in the cover.
Alternatively use some good quality hammer in spline type extractors. Tapered spiral types tend to expand the snapped off bolt and wedge it in tighter. Heat and cool the bolt shank a few times first and tap the end of the bolt repeatedly. This may help loosen it. Good luck.
Mike (5380)