Purchase a D4 with replaced engine

[stewraz]

Hi folks,

So once upon a time, i sold a discovery, I learnt a head lesson - LC200s are horrible. Not only was it terrible to drive (day to day), it was expensive on fuel, used oil, lacked many creature comforts that made it a nice place to be, and generally proved to be no cheaper to service than a D4.

Fastforward a year, and I am hanging out to get back into a Discovery (4). Looking at 2014-2016 models only, and have a few extras I am looking to be on the car. I have found one, but it has recently had the engine replaced (crankshaft failure victim). And I wonder if any one has any experience of owning one after the engine has ben replaced?

This car had a reconditioned engine put in, and I understand that they use a Gen2 Crankshaft amongst a lot of other new parts. so the theory is that you have a "better than new" engine. But I wonder what (if any) other issues are caused by doing open heart surgery as it is. Has any one experienced it? Have any advice?

Many many thanks in advance

[scarry]

I suppose it depends if you have confidence in a vehicle that has been pulled apart,and a rebuilt engine.

For me I would move on and look for one that has not had those types of issues.

Good luck with your search.

[loanrangie]

I suppose it depends if you have confidence in a vehicle that has been pulled apart,and a rebuilt engine.

For me I would move on and look for one that has not had those types of issues.

Good luck with your search.

I agree, i would prefer an original unmolested vehicle but i also see the temptation in a new motor IF it was a new crate motor and not a rebuild.

[LuckyLes]

It would be worth finding out who did the heart transplant. Then go and visit their workshop and talk to them. If it was an LR dealer I would think it would be covered under their warranty. If an Independent specialist then again assess them and talk to them about their warranty.
There is no reason for there to be any other problems if the job is done correctly.
Cheers
LuckyLes

[Discodicky]

Hi folks,

So once upon a time, i sold a discovery, I learnt a head lesson - LC200s are horrible. Not only was it terrible to drive (day to day), it was expensive on fuel, used oil, lacked many creature comforts that made it a nice place to be, and generally proved to be no cheaper to service than a D4.

Fastforward a year, and I am hanging out to get back into a Discovery (4). Looking at 2014-2016 models only, and have a few extras I am looking to be on the car. I have found one, but it has recently had the engine replaced (crankshaft failure victim). And I wonder if any one has any experience of owning one after the engine has ben replaced?

This car had a reconditioned engine put in, and I understand that they use a Gen2 Crankshaft amongst a lot of other new parts. so the theory is that you have a "better than new" engine. But I wonder what (if any) other issues are caused by doing open heart surgery as it is. Has any one experienced it? Have any advice?

Many many thanks in advance

If you can find out who did the engine rebuild and have a talk with them. If you are satisfied the job was done best practice, then I'd have no hesitation in purchasing it. If you go ahead and buy, just remember to change oil/filter every 8-10,000klms and use correct oil spec. I'm using Penrite HPR5 which is 5W40.
Getting excellent results via Oil Analysis.
PS: I hear what you say re LC200's. I have a close mate with one which is coming up to 2.5 yrs old and have driven it on several occasions. They are a luxury light truck compared to a Disco.

[stewraz]

Thanks folks, It's interesting hey. Part of my likes the idea of the engine being "better than new"? The crew that did the job was Hank at Automotive Skills (www.automotiveskills.net.au (http://www.automotiveskills.net.au/))
They do a full rebuild (not a crated engine) and apparently use a crankshaft that was redesigned in about 2018. Luckily they are very close to where i live, so i will 100% be popping up there tomorrow to have a chat. Online reviews are 10/10 FWIW.

This was his email to the original owner - im sure there was a lot more detail and many other emails exchanged, but this is the crux of it

This service includes a Reconditioned long bare engine. To give you an idea of the work that goes into these engines are as follows:

Engine is stripped down and the block, crank and cylinder heads are processed through our reconditioning machine shop.
Cylinder heads are reconditioned.
A reconditioned OEM crankshaft is used.
Block is inspected and honed or bored as required.
Engine is then re-assembled using new parts, such as crankshaft thrust/main bearings, big end bearings, pistons & piston rings, oil pump, new gasket set including sump gaskets, rear main seal, oil seals etc.
Brand new water pump is fitted.
Brand new timing chain, chain tension & guide both Left & Right is fitted.
Brand new timing belt kit is fitted.
Brand new cylinder head water connector is fitted
(I have also attached some images for you to see)
To this engine we fit a pair of overhauled turbochargers. This is on a service exchange. So we will keep your old turbos.
Tested passed diesel injectors. This is on a service exchange. So we will keep your old injectors.
There was a Land Rover rectification in regards to the turbo return pipe. If this has not been already done then it will be part of the service.
This service comes with a 12 months parts & Labour warranty.
Please note: Sold on a change over basis this means we will keep your old engine.
Please note: Anything that is not mentioned in this quote will be the vehicles original components. We can not guarantee the life of your original components.
Some info for you:
In the past we dealt with 2nd hand engines however stopped due to the poor quality and warranty that is offered.
This is why we have created this special service.
We have completed engine jobs for vehicles that have travelled as little as 40,000 Kms to 150,000 Kms
You will find most 2nd hand engines have travelled well over 100,000 kms.
A vehicle will travel at average 20,000kms per year so if it the engine is out of a vehicle that is 5 years old chances are it has done 100,000kms
Overall 2nd hand can be very risky and might result being in the same situation in the near future.
If you have any further questions please feel free to give me a call.
We have a very reliable well priced transport car carrier network so if transport is required please advise for a very reasonable quote.
Alternatively we do purchase these vehicles with failed engines. Please give me a call for a valuation.

[stewraz]

I agree, i would prefer an original unmolested vehicle but i also see the temptation in a new motor IF it was a new crate motor and not a rebuild.

I mainly hear about them giving up the ghost from anything between 50k-130k. But after that it seems stories are less? I dont really want to get caught up with trying to guess, and to be honest, i know owning a Disco is as much about the heart, as it is the head. But yeah, i do wonder as there are a lot of nice models available with 130-150kms

[DiscoJeffster]

I’m confused. It went from a redesigned crankshaft to a reconditioned OEM crankshaft. I can’t believe a redesigned crankshaft needs to be reconditioned. It should still be happily circling around in a happy engine.

[shack]

I'd like some evidence that the later crank is better.

In the UK many claim that the "landmark" 3.0 D4 had a revised crank.

If it does, and it's better, and the one you are looking at also has that, I'd go rebuilt for sure, it should be better than factory if they know what they are doing... and care.


Edit: I missed the reconditioned crank vs new bit, that's not right..

[stewraz]

Sorry lads, mushing a few conversations with the owner together with the email. I will clarify tomorrow 100% and comer back to everyone
He made a point of telling me that its a "V2" crankshaft (whatever that means) and it was basically LR silently admitting that the old design was faulty. It's pretty much the first question I have for them, and i will go from there.

He mentioned that they hone a lot of things out as part of the reconditioning process, using a stone, but to be honest its all pretty over my head mechanically.

I hear that there are a few other parts that were improved upon after the D4 was discontinued, can you think of any other questions for him besides what was in his email?

i.e I assume they check the block with a fine tooth comb, but not knowing how back the engine heated up (lets imagine they didnt kill it immediately and cooked the engine also) woudl there be anything else further from the engine that might also suffer damage?

[Tins]

Hi folks,

- LC200s are horrible.

Yep. My stepson has one. All I'll say is that it's marginally better than the Prado he had previously. And it's fugly, but the Prado was fuglier.

[Arapiles]

Hi folks,

So once upon a time, i sold a discovery, I learnt a head lesson - LC200s are horrible. Not only was it terrible to drive (day to day), it was expensive on fuel, used oil, lacked many creature comforts that made it a nice place to be, and generally proved to be no cheaper to service than a D4.

Fastforward a year, and I am hanging out to get back into a Discovery (4). Looking at 2014-2016 models only, and have a few extras I am looking to be on the car. I have found one, but it has recently had the engine replaced (crankshaft failure victim). And I wonder if any one has any experience of owning one after the engine has ben replaced?

There are heaps of D4s around with low ks - why not simply look at one without a reco engine?

Edit: and heaps with their original motors - why buy one with a reco engine?

[DiscoJeffster]

There are heaps of D4s around with low ks - why not simply look at one without a reco engine?

Edit: and heaps with their original motors - why buy one with a reco engine?

Because one might think it’s less of a ticking time bomb than a factory original

[ozscott]

Because one might think it’s less of a ticking time bomb than a factory originalIt's the first I think I have heard that there is a new and improved crank design...if there is and if the entity rebuilding has a solid reputation I would likely go that way than trust a low k LR version of any modern TD. Cheers

[DiscoDB]

The new and improved crank would be the one Ford US designed for the F150 which the last of the 3.0 diesel Discos received as well.

Sourcing it seems to be the challenge as all reports are you have to buy it with a short motor if you can find someone stocking it.

Every so often a claimed genuine new crank does come up for sale on eBay in the UK - some seem legit.

Fabsky seems to have been able to get one.

[peterjj]

Had a TDV8 in RRS replaced with reconditioned unit in Dec2019 by automotive skills. VERY bodgy work. Nuts, bolts, clips missing all over, cables routed incorrectly, turbo leaked oil, replacement turbo failed after 30,000km (the not leaking one). They were the cheapest option for a replacement engine, I can see why.

[stewraz]

Had a TDV8 in RRS replaced with reconditioned unit in Dec2019 by automotive skills. VERY bodgy work. Nuts, bolts, clips missing all over, cables routed incorrectly, turbo leaked oil, replacement turbo failed after 30,000km (the not leaking one). They were the cheapest option for a replacement engine, I can see why.

Wow, ok, this is what i was worried about, There are soooo many touch points, and to say they do it in 10 days either means that have a big team working on it, or they are VERY efficient. Either way, it kinda feels like it would be very hard to "triple check" every nut and bolt in that timeframe, no matter how hard they work.

[stewraz]

Well, a little kore information, the mob that did the work (only about 2 months ago), have refuse to transfer the warranty upon sale of the car. I cant understand for a second why it matters who drives the car, the warranty should be on the workmanship and the car itself. As a result, I am backing out of the sale, too many risks. Spoke to the owner who was a total legend, and he is gutted.

I may still give the shop a call to clarify (for other here) what the deal is with the crankshaft itself (is it an upgraded version, and how do they source them)

Thank you everyone for your input, without AULRO i doubt i would have ever purchased my first Disco

[stewraz]

Just spoke to them. As you have all being suggesting, there is no such thing as an official "v2" crank. He went on to suggest that Landrover "acknowledged the issue" and fixed it in later models, which i didn't bother to correct him on (they never did acknowledge it, else there would be a class action almost immediately).

When asked about the warranty not transferring, he just flat our said no, its not, and its even on the invoice they sent the car owner.

Hope this helps any future lotto losers when it comes to things to check if you ever need to go down this path. Overall, I was not super impressed with the way the mechanical crew spoke about the issue, very dismissive and unapologetic. I get they have a business to run, but i simply cant understand why the owner of the vehicle must be attached to the warranty.

[DiscoJeffster]

i simply cant understand why the owner of the vehicle must be attached to the warranty.

I feel this is because they just don’t trust their work enough that any excuse to avoid a warranty claim is taken, in this case, the transfer of ownership.

[sharmy]

I noticed on E-bay UK about 12months ago an add for a new crankshaft, where they gave the option of having the old type bearings or the later, 2015 onwards, bearings with a tang on the bearing. They offered a service where they would machine a notch in the corresponding bearing caps for the earlier ones.

[TonyC]

Well, a little more information, the mob that did the work (only about 2 months ago), have refuse to transfer the warranty upon sale of the car.

I wonder if they can legally do this.
Not that I would want to try and have an issue resolved with that mindset.

Tony

[Discodicky]

It's the first I think I have heard that there is a new and improved crank design...if there is and if the entity rebuilding has a solid reputation I would likely go that way than trust a low k LR version of any modern TD. Cheers

I am kicking myself 'cos I can't remember where I read it..... it was a very recent article by a motoring magazine (Modern Motor?? I'll check) which had done an in depth research and discussion with Ford re their new V6 diesel based on their old 3.0 litre for Disco, Jaguar etc.

However they discuss the crankshaft and said it had been updated ... and.... that LR has benefited from the update to fit this crank into their latest 3.0 engines.

If this is true, and there's no reason to suggest it's not, then presumably if one purchased a new crank from LR then it will be the updated one. Is this the V2 mentioned earlier?

Food for thought.

[Discodicky]

I noticed on E-bay UK about 12months ago an add for a new crankshaft, where they gave the option of having the old type bearings or the later, 2015 onwards, bearings with a tang on the bearing. They offered a service where they would machine a notch in the corresponding bearing caps for the earlier ones.

That may well be JPSK Motors in the UK, I think I read them offering this service.
They have a fair bit to say about the shaft failures.

Some of the UK engine rebuilders are fitting Sputter Bearings.
Must confess as a (retired) mechanic I'd never heard of them.

Worth a visit to Google to read up about them.

[veebs]

I am kicking myself 'cos I can't remember where I read it..... it was a very recent article by a motoring magazine (Modern Motor?? I'll check) which had done an in depth research and discussion with Ford re their new V6 diesel based on their old 3.0 litre for Disco, Jaguar etc.

However they discuss the crankshaft and said it had been updated ... and.... that LR has benefited from the update to fit this crank into their latest 3.0 engines.

If this is true, and there's no reason to suggest it's not, then presumably if one purchased a new crank from LR then it will be the updated one. Is this the V2 mentioned earlier?

Food for thought.

LR may have received the benefit of the newer crank, though I doubt it was for the D4 - the original D5s had the same SDV6 right? And I don't know if the newer Ingenium is being grouped into the 'latest 3.0' designation?

[Discodicky]

LR may have received the benefit of the newer crank, though I doubt it was for the D4 - the original D5s had the same SDV6 right? And I don't know if the newer Ingenium is being grouped into the 'latest 3.0' designation?

I'm thinking the new crank went into the RR and Jaguar line, and later D5's all with the 3.0 diesel engine.

[DiscoJeffster]

I'm thinking the new crank went into the RR and Jaguar line, and later D5's all with the 3.0 diesel engine.

There were as many D5 engine failures as in the D4 so I severely doubt that

[Discodicky]

There were as many D5 engine failures as in the D4 so I severely doubt that

Yep, point taken, but I was more thinking/presuming/hoping it has been fitted to the very latest D5's in the past year or so.
......and is now supplied by LR as a replacement item for D4 engines......
(Wishful thinking maybe on my part! [bigwhistle])

The D5 has been out for a few years now.

[stewraz]

And I assume the only reason there is vagueness about this is because JLR are treading carefully around the legal implications of "admission to fault"
Which is a shame, but does not change much for any of us who have owned a D4 - there just is no replacement (no pun intended)

What we need to do is find a rouge JLR employee who can dish the dirt ;)

[discorevy]

What we need to do is find a rouge JLR employee

Damn Communists, they'd be the culprits[tonguewink]

[discorevy]

Vladimir, your mission eez to place our mkV Lada crankshaft into every 10th engine coming off ze production line.

Vee Vill show zese capitilist peegs who eez ze bozz

[Tins]

Vladimir, your mission eez to place our mkV Lada crankshaft into every 10th engine coming off ze production line.

Vee Vill show zese capitilist peegs who eez ze bozz

I'm no judge, but I'd say that's a fair attempt at an Indian accent...

[discorevy]

I'm no judge, but I'd say that's a fair attempt at an Indian accent...

Some would say "Tata for now Tins"