Oil Question Again

[dirvine]

Its time for me to buy some more engine oil for my D4. Looking up I see Penrite has 2 types (well 3 if you include enviro for DPF cars). One is called Vantage full synthetic 5-30W, and the other which I have been using previously between Indy services called Full Synthetic 5-30W. There is considerable price difference $65 and $84 RRP. for 6 litres. A considerable difference if you buy it in bulk as I do for me and a few other LR tragics. Just wondering if anybody knows what is the Vantage, is it really suitable for a D4. I cannot seem to find anything on the internet. BTW Penrite web site recommends Full Synthetic for D4 not the Vantage full synthetic.
Thanks

[Dagilmo]

Its time for me to buy some more engine oil for my D4. Looking up I see Penrite has 2 types (well 3 if you include enviro for DPF cars). One is called Vantage full synthetic 5-30W, and the other which I have been using previously between Indy services called Full Synthetic 5-30W. There is considerable price difference $65 and $84 RRP. for 6 litres. A considerable difference if you buy it in bulk as I do for me and a few other LR tragics. Just wondering if anybody knows what is the Vantage, is it really suitable for a D4. I cannot seem to find anything on the internet. BTW Penrite web site recommends Full Synthetic for D4 not the Vantage full synthetic.
Thanks

Hi,

I think the 'Vantage' is the Repco exclusive brand. I use the Penrite Full Synthetic 5w-30 and have looked at the Vantage but not closely enough to say whether it's the same oil in different labeling. It wouldn't be hard to check though.

[DiscoJeffster]

What engine are we talking about? D4 came with a few.

[rick130]

Penrite have a 'compare' feature on their website so you can literally look from one to the other and compare specs. That way you can easily see if one or both have Ford type approvals, or if not licensed at least meet the Ford spec.

[dirvine]

Penrite have a 'compare' feature on their website so you can literally look from one to the other and compare specs. That way you can easily see if one or both have Ford type approvals, or if not licensed at least meet the Ford spec.
Did that enough detail is given to compare. Wording and data sheets are the same for both. Wording almost identical. Hence my question.

[Dagilmo]

Did that enough detail is given to compare. Wording and data sheets are the same for both. Wording almost identical. Hence my question.

It would seem it's the same oil and Vantage is just the Repco branding.

[veebs]

To add to the confusion, have you considered 5W-40?

Wrong engine oil over 6 Years in our Land Rover - OMG - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGvQAbM_YQY)

[Dagilmo]

What engine are we talking about? D4 came with a few.

DJ, both posters above engines in signatures.

[Discodicky]

Its time for me to buy some more engine oil for my D4. Looking up I see Penrite has 2 types (well 3 if you include enviro for DPF cars). One is called Vantage full synthetic 5-30W, and the other which I have been using previously between Indy services called Full Synthetic 5-30W. There is considerable price difference $65 and $84 RRP. for 6 litres. A considerable difference if you buy it in bulk as I do for me and a few other LR tragics. Just wondering if anybody knows what is the Vantage, is it really suitable for a D4. I cannot seem to find anything on the internet. BTW Penrite web site recommends Full Synthetic for D4 not the Vantage full synthetic.
Thanks

Penrite HPR5 is working well in my D4 with 180,000 klms.

[SimmAus]

To add to the confusion, have you considered 5W-40?

Wrong engine oil over 6 Years in our Land Rover - OMG - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGvQAbM_YQY)

I enjoy the LR Time videos…have you ever seen a German with a sense of humour?

5w-30dumbass per Christian

Interesting to hear if anyone else is running 5w-40..,

[gotaflat]

I enjoy the LR Time videos…have you ever seen a German with a sense of humour?

5w-30dumbass per Christian

Interesting to hear if anyone else is running 5w-40..,

yes - for over 5 years - (LR serviced for the first 4 years with 5-30) after that Indy switched me to 5-40w Penrite. I am now 408,000kms on original engine and owned since new. 2011 3.0 SDV6 HSE. Basically WA is generally a hotter climate (generally) and probably one of the reasons i have stuck with it. (Penrite HPR 5 5-40w full synthetic).

[DiscoJeffster]

As per Gotaflat, I’ve been on HPR 5w-40 for a few years. My engine is still running so I take that as success.

[PerthDisco]

5W40 for me

5W30 is more for LR economy target needs and not long engine life

[BradC]

Penrite 5w40 here. Been using Enviro+ for 5 years, and moving to HPR5 at next change.

[Tombie]

To add to the confusion, have you considered 5W-40?

Wrong engine oil over 6 Years in our Land Rover - OMG - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGvQAbM_YQY)

Dont do it... They are off the mark on that one.

There has already been reports of vehicles running warmer with the thicker oil.

Their show is great, but sometimes I sigh as I watch a video :) just because its on Youtube doesnt necessarily mean its the right thing to do.

[veebs]

Another 5w-40 here, though not for any research or direction on my part - the trusted indy uses Penrite Enviro in this spec, and i figure for the amount of engines and kilometres he sees, it can't be causing THAt much harm?

I admit, I do like LRTime's methodic/scientific reasoning for 5w-40, though I haven't verified beyond 'ooh, lots of big words'

I've watched a few of his videos now, and no, I still haven't met a German with a sense of humour :)

[PerthDisco]

Dont do it... They are off the mark on that one.

There has already been reports of vehicles running warmer with the thicker oil.

Their show is great, but sometimes I sigh as I watch a video :) just because its on Youtube doesnt necessarily mean its the right thing to do.

Bowing to any new temp evidence and without starting WWOil again my very simple logic says both 5W identical viscosity at cold or starting temps and the HPR Extra 10 (30+10) is only relevant at super high temps we might more commonly see in Australia with high ambient and towing the house scenarios. On top engines after 200,000km with some wear and potential oil pressure loss.

I did not change till after 200k km but that was because the Castrol 5W30 old school A5 ran out or became hard to find. This spec being outdated some time ago.

Also confusing was other users of the engine Citroen Jag etc. weren’t in the 5W30 camp.

The wildcard always for Disco concentrated failures has always been the increased vehicle weight. That is something we can only minimise to a point.

On balance I felt it was a safe(r) bet long term in an older engine for which not many would be under 150k kms today and on original tolerances.

[Graeme]

the HPR Extra 10 (30+10) is only relevant at super high temps we might more commonly see in Australia with high ambient and towing the house scenarios.The higher temperature typical characteristic Kinematic Viscosity is quoted at 100 deg C which is around normal engine operating temperature, not especially hot conditions and there's quite a difference between HPR 5 5-40's 14.4 and Magnatec Prof A5 5W30's 9.55.

[goldey]

Okay.............[bawl], so for the less educated oil aware people, what is the preference for say a 3.0 SDV6 with approx 150,000km? Is it the previously used Penrite C1 5W-30 or should it be 5W-40 (assuming the 5W-40 is full synthetic and also strict 10,000km renewal frequency)?
Flame suit on, go for it.

[dirvine]

This thread has gone way off what I originally asked. I dont care what oil people put in their engines. I just asked if there was any difference between 2 types of Penrite oil. The question was basically answered after the 4th or 5th post. If I had the power I would shut the thread down as it has gone way off track. Moderators???

[Dagilmo]

This thread has gone way off what I originally asked. I dont care what oil people put in their engines. I just asked if there was any difference between 2 types of Penrite oil. The question was basically answered after the 4th or 5th post. If I had the power I would shut the thread down as it has gone way off track. Moderators???

Really? If you want simple information contact Penrite. If you post on a forum you get rambling discussions...

[veebs]

This thread has gone way off what I originally asked. I dont care what oil people put in their engines. I just asked if there was any difference between 2 types of Penrite oil. The question was basically answered after the 4th or 5th post. If I had the power I would shut the thread down as it has gone way off track. Moderators???

If your question has been answered, whats the problem?

[RANDLOVER]

Now that the OP's question has been answered let's get on to chip oil. [biggrin]

[BradC]

Moderators???

No harm, no foul. Play on!

But seriously, after your question went around the houses, SimmAus asked if anyone was using a 40 weight and the replies started. That happens.

Where’s Tins when you need him?

[PerthDisco]

Oils ain’t oils

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230120/04e8aae195dac12663ceda2dbbaa266b.jpg

[350RRC]

Where’s Tins when you need him?

I reckon he's smart enough to stay right out of this. [thumbsupbig][thumbsupbig]

Like me................ XLD 20. / 50 has been great for the last 300+ thou. [biggrin]

DL

[DiscoJeffster]

This thread has gone way off what I originally asked. I dont care what oil people put in their engines. I just asked if there was any difference between 2 types of Penrite oil. The question was basically answered after the 4th or 5th post. If I had the power I would shut the thread down as it has gone way off track. Moderators???

Yawn. Here we go again.

[discomatt69]

I know a lab tech that used to work at a mentioned oil company, repco is rebranded exactly the same oil

[josh.huber]

Makes life easy for them with a price match, not the same product, so if Supercheap puts it on sale, they don't need to match it.

Mattress companies are the best at this game

[BradC]

The higher temperature typical characteristic Kinematic Viscosity is quoted at 100 deg C which is around normal engine operating temperature, not especially hot conditions and there's quite a difference between HPR 5 5-40's 14.4 and Magnatec Prof A5 5W30's 9.55.

I was seeing a fairly consistent sump temp of ~121C pulling the van home from Albany yesterday. If that's sump temp, then the oil temp in the bearing is going to be "quite a bit warmer". I was doing some work with a guy a few years ago who put thermocouples under the main shells to measure the oil spilled directly from the bearings and he was clocking more than a 20C difference between the crank and sump temps.

Wonder what the difference in KV and HTHS is at 150C?

[Graeme]

If only we knew that 5W30 was specified rather than 5W40 purely for fuel economy reasons....

[scarry]

If only we knew that 5W30 was specified rather than 5W40 purely for fuel economy reasons....

Rick130 may have some idea?

[BradC]

If only we knew that 5W30 was specified rather than 5W40 purely for fuel economy reasons....

That is always the question. My gut says "yes; but". Like the American march towards water thin oils to meet CAFE requirements, all manufacturers are having to toe the line. On the other hand, they're also having to improve machining tolerances and bearing materials to allow these water thin lubricants to actually work for long enough to satisfy warranty requirements.

Manufacturers like Toyota and Honda seem to be on top of this, but as Landrover seem to have a propensity for trashing bearings/cranks I don't think they've got it right. I'm taking a completely WAG (wild arsed guess) gamble on 5w40 and I'm willing to wear the consequences. Nobody knows if it'll help or make things worse because nobody has ever done a controlled test, so we're all guessing. Manufacturers wouldn't be spending the money for thinner oils and risking warranty failures if there wasn't a payoff.

In my old tractor (2.3L iron block I4 Volvo engine) I did detailed fuel consumption tests over 36 months. I did a 20w50, 5w40 and 5w30. I ran each for a year and logged every tank. There was a measurable difference with each in fuel consumption. Enough to rule out "margin of error", but not enough for me to choose the 5w30 over 5w40 that everything else I drove used.

[Graeme]

I was pleased to find a year or so ago that a new to me 2012 header fitted with a modern high performance industrial engine uses the same 15W40 engine oil that everything else of mine uses. Header engines run at full rated revs all the time.

[rick130]

I was seeing a fairly consistent sump temp of ~121C pulling the van home from Albany yesterday. If that's sump temp, then the oil temp in the bearing is going to be "quite a bit warmer". I was doing some work with a guy a few years ago who put thermocouples under the main shells to measure the oil spilled directly from the bearings and he was clocking more than a 20C difference between the crank and sump temps.

Wonder what the difference in KV and HTHS is at 150C?

Easy enough to check, just plug the numbers into a viscosity index calculator. Flick 'em through if you'd like.
HTHS is measured at 150*, in our engines anything above 3.5 will give adequate protection.

[shanegtr]

If only we knew that 5W30 was specified rather than 5W40 purely for fuel economy reasons....
Here is my take/thoughts on that question
Discovery TDV6 Oil specs explained and compared to current oils - YouTube (https://youtu.be/RrVCu8s8UqA)

[scarry]

Manufacturers like Toyota and Honda seem to be on top of this

As a comparison,all our Tojos are serviced at the dealer,Diesels run 0w30,including 1VD-FTV in the LC200.
Petrols all run 5W30.
Many have done huge mileage with no issues.
None ever used oil either.

FWIW,the F33A-FTV in the LC300 runs 0W20.Time will tell how it goes in the long run, i suppose.

Quite a few on the LC forums run 5 or 10W40 in the 1VD,particularly up north in hotter regions,and those that tow the big weights most of the time.

[Graeme]

I'll be moving to the -913D spec'd Castrol Magnatec Stop-Start 5W30 A5 with my next 20L drum purchase to be used in both my old 3.0 TDV6 D4 that belongs to one of my sons and my 4.4 TDV8 L322, prompted by Shane's charts.

[DazzaTD5]

This thread has gone way off what I originally asked. I dont care what oil people put in their engines. I just asked if there was any difference between 2 types of Penrite oil. The question was basically answered after the 4th or 5th post. If I had the power I would shut the thread down as it has gone way off track. Moderators???

It was quite rightly pointed out to me recently that any control of peoples opinions be it relevant or not would go against the spirit of AULRO...


Threads go where they go. They always do, Nobody owns them, as much as some want to.

I introduced the TDV8 to this one in a serious attempt to help. I don't know if it's easy or difficult, but the OP is faced with either a huge repair bill or a huge loss, so any option should be on the table. Sorry if that upsets some ( not really ).

Only the OP can know if the thread has contained info helpful to him. Who knows what he has gleaned from it? HE does, not you, and not me.

Any attempt to control what people post, or what direction a thread takes, would fly in the face of the spirit of AULRO, and IMO would be an abuse of power. This thread will die a natural death, as they all do. If the OP has gained anything from it then it has been worthwhile.

BTW, the sentiments expressed by some here is exactly why I tried to get a Sticky going in TGO for D3/4 engine swaps ( ok, 2.7, but no reason it couldn't expand to 3.0 ), but nobody complaining here seemed to be interested in having a central place to seek info without the digressions. Well, except for Dazza.

My two bob is worth the same as the next bloke's, and there it is.


I do believe you are right in everything you say...
it would be as you say not in the spirit of AULRO to control or delete comments, regardless of how irrelevant it might be. I retract my previous thought (but not deleting the comment)

Yes I do love a good sticky, full of info and fact without all the BS [tonguewink]

As I stand corrected...

[Journeytower]

I've been using the Penrite HPR-5 5w-40 in my D3 2.7 for several years now. No concerns at all. Apparently the 5w-30 is an original specification for where the vehicles came from, where it's cold.
I prefer that little bit of extra weight for our hot country, and the cold weight is the same.

[jliquorish]

Dont do it... They are off the mark on that one.

There has already been reports of vehicles running warmer with the thicker oil.

Their show is great, but sometimes I sigh as I watch a video :) just because its on Youtube doesnt necessarily mean its the right thing to do.

Hey Tombie,

Did you watch LR Time's crankshaft failure mitigation. Sounds watertight to me. Interesting his comment on SDV6 being more likely to do crankshaft because of too much horsepower.

John

[Tombie]

Hey Tombie,

Did you watch LR Time's crankshaft failure mitigation. Sounds watertight to me. Interesting his comment on SDV6 being more likely to do crankshaft because of too much horsepower.

John

Yes I did.

Which part sounds watertight to you?

[Tins]

Where’s Tins when you need him?

I'm here, but Dazza has it covered. Besides, I know bugger all about modern oils so haven't been paying this thread any attention.

It still bemuses me that people believe they own a thread simply because they started it though.

[Ian Abbott]

SimmAus, I think I can see oil Co. web sites changing as we speak, I note today the Sth African site mentioned, no longer recommends 5W-40, now shows 5W-30.
The Aust ref doesn't figure either as the rec. for 0W-40, as an alternate oil to 5W-30, states for non DPF vehicles!!
Staying with 5W-30 as per my Indy rec. Christian makes a very commanding representation, but I'm no mechanic or auto eng. so must go with the majority.
It made good sense for our 230 K Km wagon in this bloody hot climate, but there is good sense and then there is the majority. Cheers Botto [smilebigeye]

[loanrangie]

Where’s Tins when you need him?

He's too busy putting his 10 cents into every other post on the forum [bigrolf].

[Tins]

He's too busy putting his 10 cents into every other post on the forum [bigrolf].

While you just give us 5?

[loanrangie]

While you just give us 5?Quality not quantity [emoji3].

[Tins]

Quality not quantity [emoji3].

Why not both??

[PerthDisco]

Can we change the name of this thread to 5W Dumbass 30

[DiscoJeffster]

Can we change the name of this thread to 5W Dumbass 30

No

[Briar]

Here is my take/thoughts on that question
Discovery TDV6 Oil specs explained and compared to current oils - YouTube (https://youtu.be/RrVCu8s8UqA)

Hi Shane

Enjoyed your vid. Very informative.

I noted in your video that you siad (I think) that you were running GM Dexos 2 5W40, but in a reply to a comment I think you said you were running Valvoline Synpower MST 5W40.

My next service will be in a months time and I'll be at about 197,000km. Since new it has always run the C1 Penrite 5W30 Enviro. Engine is very quite and virtually no clatter on startup. Also longer trips as I live 20km out of town, so always gets fully warm when driving. I don't flog the vehicle or bore it into it. I am towing the van a lot more so considering the arguments for 5W40 seriously (by you and Christian and others). What would your suggestion be and why for which oil to go to. Appreciate your thoughts.

[Tombie]

Hi Shane

Enjoyed your vid. Very informative.

I noted in your video that you siad (I think) that you were running GM Dexos 2 5W40, but in a reply to a comment I think you said you were running Valvoline Synpower MST 5W40.

My next service will be in a months time and I'll be at about 197,000km. Since new it has always run the C1 Penrite 5W30 Enviro. Engine is very quite and virtually no clatter on startup. Also longer trips as I live 20km out of town, so always gets fully warm when driving. I don't flog the vehicle or bore it into it. I am towing the van a lot more so considering the arguments for 5W40 seriously (by you and Christian and others). What would your suggestion be and why for which oil to go to. Appreciate your thoughts.

Seriously, stick to your C1.... no need to shift to the 40 weight

[shanegtr]

Hi Shane

Enjoyed your vid. Very informative.

I noted in your video that you siad (I think) that you were running GM Dexos 2 5W40, but in a reply to a comment I think you said you were running Valvoline Synpower MST 5W40.

My next service will be in a months time and I'll be at about 197,000km. Since new it has always run the C1 Penrite 5W30 Enviro. Engine is very quite and virtually no clatter on startup. Also longer trips as I live 20km out of town, so always gets fully warm when driving. I don't flog the vehicle or bore it into it. I am towing the van a lot more so considering the arguments for 5W40 seriously (by you and Christian and others). What would your suggestion be and why for which oil to go to. Appreciate your thoughts.
Dexos 2 is a specification, which synpower MST C3 5W30 and 5W40 both have approvals for.
Honestly, I personally look for known quality specifications as a primary then the viscosity. I mainly run a 40 grade due to regular towing that puts a little more heat load into the oil compared to unladen driving. Not really much difference between a C1 and C3 anyway in regards to performance targets, C1 will have a little more sway to fuel economy side. I'm not personally convinced that 5W30 is the cause of engine failures in the TDV6's for what its worth. But on the other hand I have seen a small improvement to wear rates in oil samples with the 40 grade over a 30 - is the improvement significant? Probably not that much in it really.

[DiscoDB]

5W-30 vs 5W-40 (at the correct spec) is really just a personal preference in the end. One will give a marginal benefit in fuel economy, and the other a marginal benefit in engine wear.

What most people don’t discuss though is the normal temperature the oil operates at. 5W-30 suit engines in cool climates that typically see the oil temp sitting around 90-95 degC. This is the oil spec that matches the required viscosity to the bearing clearance when new.

But if you are in a hotter climate, or do lots of towing, and see engine temps sitting 10-20 degC higher then you increase the SAE oil grade by 10 to bring the viscosity back up to about the same level as the cooler operating oil. This keeps you away from the oil becoming dangerously thin at these higher temps. 5W-30 oils become very thin at 120 degC.

The Citroen engineers were not wrong to specify 5W-40 for hotter climates for the same engine. But they are the only car manufacturer using this engine that are matching oil viscosity to bearing clearance under different climatic conditions. The rest just took a simpler approach.

The other factor is then age - as the bearings approach their service limit it is normal practice to increase the oil viscosity as bearing clearances open up. What is the expected life of the bearings? - who knows - but if you are over 250,000 kms you are probably near mid-life and increasing grade by 10 can be beneficial.

As Shane notes - it probably makes very little difference, but for a borderline design it is these small differences that gives you long term reliability. Especially if you believe an engine and car should last a lot more than 500,000 kms.

Changing the oil twice as often as needed probably gives you more benefit if you are really concerned and don’t want to move away from the original (when new) oil spec. And if you are in a cold climate - stick with 5W-30.

But for warmer climates or worn engines, changing to 5W-40 is not a dumb thing to do - especially for the older D3/D4’s with the 2.7TDV6.

[PerthDisco]

Shane’s video was incredibly detailed and high level but made it super easy to understand the bias of each oil spec. Apply that against your type of use and environment. A Tassie D3 is in a different world to one in the Pilbara. A next level up from Christian.

[DiscoDB]

Shane’s video was incredibly detailed and high level but made it super easy to understand the bias of each oil spec. Apply that against your type of use and environment. A Tassie D3 is in a different world to one in the Pilbara. A next level up from Christian.

Correct - and most D3/D4’s sold around the world operate in conditions more like Tasmania than the Pilbara. Which is why Christian calling it 5W-dumbass-30 is misleading.

And despite both having a 5W rating, the 5W-40 oil will still be thicker at very cold conditions and so you will see very high oil pressure during cold starts in very cold climates.

I wouldn’t use 5W-40 in very cold climates.

[josh.huber]

Just putting it out there, and I'll get slammed, but anyway.

I've never seen a 3.0l crank failure due to oil, all have been cracked in the same spot, no bearing damage. Id love to see more close ups.

I can find 2.7 issues, only early on, spun bearings etc, but not 3.0L.

So unless someone has a better photo.. All the oils are fine.. It's the steel that's the issue.

I run the 40w, I love the beach, trailers and I'm old 300k

[BradC]

5W-30 oils become very thin at 120 degC.

It's not uncommon for me to see >120C oil temps when towing. I have a manual, keep the revs up, rarely exceed 95 and the van isn't big or heavy. I've seen nearly 130C pulling hard up Sues road when I was "seeing what it could do". That's *sump* temp, which is always lower than the oil in the bearings.

I'd have thought pulling a decent load with an auto that has a propensity to lug resulting in higher combustion pressures, higher EGT, coolant and oil temps would warrant a bit more investigation.

[DiscoDB]

There has already been reports of vehicles running warmer with the thicker oil.

This could be correct if using 5W-40 in very cold climates - if the oil is too thick there is more resistance and fluid friction which then generates increased temperatures.

Too thin in hot climates also generates higher temps due to insufficient film thickness and metal on metal contact.

Needs to be at the goldilocks point - not too thick and not too thin at the bearings operating temperature.

Would be interesting to know where these reports were from. Have not seen any increase in oil temps in my case.

[discomatt69]

So let Mel get this right, people are saying when I do a high country trip that involves snow I need one spec but when I put the van on I need another spec or if it’s hot I need another spec. That’s bloody ridiculous, I live in Melbourne, it can go from freezing one day to cooking 2 days later, pick a oil that you are happy with, stick with it and hope LR crap engine design doesn’t bit you on the ass , either that or buy another car

[loanrangie]

So let Mel get this right, people are saying when I do a high country trip that involves snow I need one spec but when I put the van on I need another spec or if it’s hot I need another spec. That’s bloody ridiculous, I live in Melbourne, it can go from freezing one day to cooking 2 days later, pick a oil that you are happy with, stick with it and hope LR crap engine design doesn’t bit you on the ass , either that or buy another car

No one ever has suggested you change the oil spec for short term climatic changes, if you lived in Norway where its cold to extremely cold 8 months of the year you'd stick to a thinner grade as opposed to someone that lives in outback Australia where cold means putting on blundstones instead of thongs with your shorts.
In reality if you are changing oil at 10K intervals the difference between a 30 or 40 will make SFA difference.

[DiscoDB]

So let Mel get this right, people are saying when I do a high country trip that involves snow I need one spec but when I put the van on I need another spec or if it’s hot I need another spec. That’s bloody ridiculous, I live in Melbourne, it can go from freezing one day to cooking 2 days later, pick a oil that you are happy with, stick with it and hope LR crap engine design doesn’t bit you on the ass , either that or buy another car

No - you are missing the point. In your example you stick with the one spec based on where you do most of your driving. Short term usage makes no difference - we are talking about extended operation at extreme conditions.

So if you lived in the Pilbara or the Middle East, you could run a higher grade oil - particulate during summer - compared to if you lived in Northern Europe for winter where you would use the original spec oil.

This is why Christian’s advice to people to just use 5W-40 was so misleading. Those living in cold climates (like Northern Europe or Tasmania or even Melbourne) can stick with 5W-30.

Those living in the northern parts of Australia or other hot parts of the world would benefit going up to 5W-40.

The rest of us, just pick the oil that best suits your needs and stick with it. 5W-30 or 5W-40 (to the right spec) is fine for temperate climates.

Shane’s experience that the 5W-40 does see slightly less wear rates confirms it won’t harm your engine going to 5W-40, especially if you live in warm climates, but if you want to stick with 5W-30 then do so.

Brad and Shane are not doing harm to their engines using 5W-40, and likewise you would not be doing harm to your engine to stick with 5W-30.

If in doubt - always stick with LR’s recommended oil grade (but don’t blindly follow their service interval recommendations).

[DiscoDB]

The other interesting point about oil grades. There are some 5W-30 oils that have viscosities at 100degC that are at the upper range for that grade and closer to being a 5W-40 oil which may be at the lower end of the grade above.

Case in point - some of the Castrol 5W-30 oils in particular are very close to being a 5W-40. They don’t quite hit the viscosity to be called 5W-40 but are very close. More like a 5W-35 (if they had an SAE oil grade between 30 and 40 - which they don’t).

So if you are running something like Castrol Edge 5W-30 you are already getting better protection at the 100-120degC temp range. Likewise, the Castrol Edge 5W-40 oil is at the bottom end of the range and so not much different to the 5W-30 alternative.

Despite the tag line “oils ain’t oils” - the difference between the Castrol Edge 5W-30 and 5W-40 is so small they are essentially the same oil but with a different label and a few additives. One is just marginally thicker to bump it up to the next SAE grade. Both will work just as well as each other and neither will give you any noticeable difference in fuel economy or engine wear.

And which oil did LR recommend……drum roll please……Castrol. OMG!!!

So they are in fact recommending a slightly thicker oil which sits nicely between the 5W-30 and 5W-40 range and so best suited to almost all applications under almost all temperature ranges. Now that folks is brilliant engineering!

Who ever claimed LR engineers don’t know what they are doing is dumbass in my opinion……[emoji38]

[shanegtr]

I had a little bit more of an indepth look at oil wear rates from my sample history. I've focused on just a handful of elements:
Iron - Typically the most common wear metal, from cylinder liners, valve guides, rocker arms, crankshaft, camshaft, wrist pins etc..
Copper - Typical element in bearings
Lead - Typical element in bearings
Chromium - Piston Rings, cylinder liners, exhaust valves.
Silicon & Aluminum - combined are typically related to dirt contamination. Separately they can be contaminates

Tin and zinc can be an alloy in bearings, however historic data shows tin practically nothing and zinc is a major additive in oils so can't be used to trend wear. I havent bothered looking at those for those reasons.

Oils sampled:
Valvoline Synpower FE 5W30 - Specs: API SL, API CF, ACEA A5/B5, Jaguar Land Rover STJLR 03.5003 Approved, Ford M2C-913D Approved, Ford M2C-913C, Ford M2C-913B, Ford M2C-913A, RENAULT RN700
Valvoline Synpower 5W40 - Specs API SP, API SN/CF, ACEA A3/B3, MB 229.3, VW 501.00, VW 505.00, RENAULT RN710, RENAULT RN700.
Mobil 1 0W40 - the only full PAO sythetic I've used - specs: API SJ, API SL, API SM, API SN, ACEA A3/B3, ACEA A3/B4, Ford WSS-M2C937-A, MB229.3 approved, MB 229.5 approved, Nissan Genuine Performances, Porsche A40, VW 502 00, VW 505 00,
Valvoline Synpower C3 MST 5W40. Specs: API SN, API CF, ACEA C3, BMW LL 04, GM DEXOS 2 Approved, MB 229.31, MB 229.51, Renault RN0700, Renault RN0710, Porsche A40

So heres the results below - elements are measured in parts per million (PPM) and in order to separate them somewhat I've converted the wear to a per 10,000km rate. Interesting that mobil 1 is the only full synthetic (class IV Polyalphaolefin) in the list and defiantly the most expensive oil I've tested was on average the worst performer for wear rates overall across FE, Cu and Pb. Results might be a little unfair to the mobil 1 as it was a sample size of 1 so its at a disadvantage there. Tin probably needs a few more decimal points to seperate them but the rates are that low I dont think theres any value comparing them, they are there anyway. Summary, best iron and copper wear is from the C3 Valvoline where as the best lead wear is from the Synpower Fe 5W30, but it also had the worst copper wear. Overall I think the Synpower 5w40 has the best combined results, but your free to interpret anyway you like:

183751

[DiscoDB]

Nice one Shane. Great to bring some data to the dumbass debate…..heh heh.

Edit: you also have one outlier result (the first data point) which is also skewing the averages. Take that one out and you would be hard pressed to pick any statistically valid difference.

[DazzaTD5]

Nice one Shane. Great to bring some data to the dumbass debate…..heh heh.

Edit: you also have one outlier result (the first data point) which is also skewing the averages. Take that one out and you would be hard pressed to pick any statistically valid difference.

wooo data? facts? huh.... no no no, a youtuber has said bluh bluh... so it must be right [tonguewink]

[shanegtr]

Nice one Shane. Great to bring some data to the dumbass debate…..heh heh.

Edit: you also have one outlier result (the first data point) which is also skewing the averages. Take that one out and you would be hard pressed to pick any statistically valid difference.
Didnt notice that, heres that complete first result removed from the calculations
183752

[DiscoDB]

wooo data? facts? huh.... no no no, a youtuber has said bluh bluh... so it must be right [tonguewink]

….steady on - I like Shane’s YouTube videos…….🤣


Oh my god - you are referring to the funny dumbass one…..[emoji849]

[DiscoDB]

Didnt notice that, heres that complete first result removed from the calculations


So the Valvoline SynPower 5W-40 is marginally better on copper but worse on lead. They almost cancel each other out.

[Discodicky]

If I knew how to copy & paste here I'd show my last few oil analysis results, however I'll just write down a couple which may be of interest.

7265 klms: Penrite 5W30

(ppm) Fe 20, Cr 1, Ni <1, Cu 4, Sn <1, Pb <1, Al 9, Si 5, Na <1, K 7, Zn 779, Mg 182

7616 klms: Penrite HPR5 (5W40)

(ppm) Fe 20, Cr 1, Ni <1, Cu 4, Sn <1, Pb <1, Si 7, Na 2, K 2, Zn 1054, Mg 917

So, Penrite has obviously changed the additive package from 5W/30 to HPR5.

I changed to HPR5 simply 'cos the engine has done 180,000 and I consider it helps protect the bearings particularly when towing my 3.0T van and oil temp rises.

I also use Wynns oil additives after having had very good results over many years. I use their "Professional" range which is in black bottles and is only sold to workshops. I have a "contact" at Wynns and have been told that their Professional range is condoned by car manufacturers and does not affect warranty. Not sure if that's true, but at 180,000 klms doesn't apply anyway....

...... and FYI just to stir the "possum" a bit more..... have been running Penrite BMV auto oil for past 80,000 klms with excellent results.

Oh, by the way, I have had a "Cambo" tune and now giving 210Kw and 700Nm for past 30 odd thousand klms.
Desperately want his auto "tune" but Tassy is a long way from Sydney.

[DiscoDB]

Nice data Discodicky.

Interesting that Shane gets better Cu numbers over more kms. Could just be more gets collected in the filter on the D3. [emoji33] (it is just a joke - they are all good Cu numbers!)

Good to see HPR5 5W-40 is not doing damage.

[josh.huber]

I'm using 15w40 cat DEO ULS engine oil, I should start tracking it. Been using it for about 40k now, better detergents then hpr5 which I was using.

Another oil worth its weight is fuschs, they do a c1 C3 etc.

Cat oil is e9 from memory.. Commercial grade.

Havnt seen the video.. But I'm on 40 due to age.. 30 will be fine.. Mine was on 30 for a long time..
My next job is a neat and simple and easy to see oil pressure gauge

[Jeffoir]

Hi Josh,
I’d be grateful to learn more of your oil pressure gauge for the D4 when you do it.
a good idea.
thanks, Jeff

[josh.huber]

Hi Josh,
I’d be grateful to learn more of your oil pressure gauge for the D4 when you do it.
a good idea.
thanks, Jeff

I've seen one online, looks professional.. But it might be custom, I'm currently investigating wireless options as well as a glove box installation

[gavinwibrow]

Hi Josh,
I’d be grateful to learn more of your oil pressure gauge for the D4 when you do it.
a good idea.
thanks, Jeff


x2

[kelvo]

I had a little bit more of an indepth look at oil wear rates from my sample history.

Hi Shane, who do you use for your oil samples? I’m coming up to an oil change soon, for the last 60-70,000Km I’ve been using Castrol 5W30 A5 (Land Rover spec), be interesting to see what results that gives. No idea what was being used before I bought the D4, it was being serviced by Jordan Rovertech.

[shanegtr]

Hi Shane, who do you use for your oil samples? I’m coming up to an oil change soon, for the last 60-70,000Km I’ve been using Castrol 5W30 A5 (Land Rover spec), be interesting to see what results that gives. No idea what was being used before I bought the D4, it was being serviced by Jordan Rovertech.
ALS

[DazzaTD5]

….steady on - I like Shane’s YouTube videos…….🤣


Oh my god - you are referring to the funny dumbass one…..[emoji849]

Yes I wasnt referring to any members on AULRO, the ones that have a youtube channel.

yes was in reference to lr time.

[Briar]

Nice one Shane. Great to bring some data to the dumbass debate…..heh heh.

Edit: you also have one outlier result (the first data point) which is also skewing the averages. Take that one out and you would be hard pressed to pick any statistically valid difference.

Yes, the first reading for the 5W30 is a bit of an outlier and does skew the average for the 5W30 compared to the 5W40,

BUT,

it is possible that the 5W30 might break down with increased distance travelled? That first reading was for a distance travelled of about 15,500km, which is the greatest distance for any of the 5W30 results. By comparison, there are 2 x 5W40 readings (that for the copper indicating bearings???), that are over 20,000km and have lower Cu readings similar to most other low mileage 5W30 and 5W40 readings.

You can only say that that first reading is an "Outlier", if you have other distances travelled that are greater than 15,500km that are low Cu readings for the 5W30. Yes there could be other factors at play to get that reading, but the fact that the longest mileage (kilometerage does doesn't sound right), of the 5W30 has the worst Cu reading by far and much greater distance 5W40 Cu readings are lower might indicate that longer distances travelled between oil changes for 5W30 might be an issue?

[shanegtr]

Yes, the first reading for the 5W30 is a bit of an outlier and does skew the average for the 5W30 compared to the 5W40,

BUT,

it is possible that the 5W30 might break down with increased distance travelled? That first reading was for a distance travelled of about 15,500km, which is the greatest distance for any of the 5W30 results. By comparison, there are 2 x 5W40 readings (that for the copper indicating bearings???), that are over 20,000km and have lower Cu readings similar to most other low mileage 5W30 and 5W40 readings.

You can only say that that first reading is an "Outlier", if you have other distances travelled that are greater than 15,500km that are low Cu readings for the 5W30. Yes there could be other factors at play to get that reading, but the fact that the longest mileage (kilometerage does doesn't sound right), of the 5W30 has the worst Cu reading by far and much greater distance 5W40 Cu readings are lower might indicate that longer distances travelled between oil changes for 5W30 might be an issue?
next longest distance of the 5w30 is 14500 which is not really that far behind so I dont think there would be anything strange going on with the oil there. That particular sample was from way back in 2015 so I cant remember if there was any particular operating conditions that could have affected the results.

[BradC]

next longest distance of the 5w30 is 14500 which is not really that far behind so I dont think there would be anything strange going on with the oil there. That particular sample was from way back in 2015 so I cant remember if there was any particular operating conditions that could have affected the results.

Out of interest, when did you replace the oil cooler? I recall you mentioning that was prompted by a specific elevated level but I can't recall which one.

[shanegtr]

Out of interest, when did you replace the oil cooler? I recall you mentioning that was prompted by a specific elevated level but I can't recall which one.
Sodium and Potassium. First showed up in sample Feb 2019 and I procrastinated over it until changing the cooler in December 2020

[101RRS]

I find it amazing that over the past couple of years we must have had at least 10 threads or at least closely related on this very subject of oil for the TDV6 with each one having exactly the same arguments from exactly the same people with the issue never getting resolved.

Time to move on and just research the old threads if new questions pop up.

Garry

[PerthDisco]

Sodium and Potassium. First showed up in sample Feb 2019 and I procrastinated over it until changing the cooler in December 2020

Essential for healthy bones and teeth

[DiscoDB]

I find it amazing that over the past couple of years we must have had at least 10 threads or at least closely related on this very subject of oil for the TDV6 with each one having exactly the same arguments from exactly the same people with the issue never getting resolved.

Time to move on and just research the old threads if new questions pop up.

Garry

So I did a search, couldn’t find any previous discussions about 5W-Dumbass [emoji48]

[DiscoDB]

next longest distance of the 5w30 is 14500 which is not really that far behind so I dont think there would be anything strange going on with the oil there. That particular sample was from way back in 2015 so I cant remember if there was any particular operating conditions that could have affected the results.

What is impressive with your data is you have some high kms between oil changes in there and yet you are not seeing any accelerated wear even when you extend beyond 20,000kms.

With the extended oil change intervals did you see a drop in viscosity or any fuel contamination?

[BradC]

I find it amazing that over the past couple of years we must have had at least 10 threads or at least closely related on this very subject of oil for the TDV6 with each one having exactly the same arguments from exactly the same people with the issue never getting resolved.

Time to move on and just research the old threads if new questions pop up.

But then what would we have to argue about?

[DiscoJeffster]

What is impressive with your data is you have some high kms between oil changes in there and yet you are not seeing any accelerated wear even when you extend beyond 20,000kms.

With the extended oil change intervals did you see a drop in viscosity or any fuel contamination?

Shock horror, not. So much FUD out there.

[DiscoDB]

Shock horror, not. So much FUD out there.

Certainly none here based on Shanes’s oil sampling data.

[shanegtr]

What is impressive with your data is you have some high kms between oil changes in there and yet you are not seeing any accelerated wear even when you extend beyond 20,000kms.

With the extended oil change intervals did you see a drop in viscosity or any fuel contamination?
183774
Statistically no issues. I've pointed out the 3 samples that where very close to 20,000kms on the oil and above. Viscosity no issues at all, there was one sample with a small increase in fuel (2% vs 1%) but not worth worrying about - anything >5% is where I draw the line for fuel. Total base numbers where a little lower but that is to be expected as the additivities are neutralizing acids over time - still plenty in reserve so again no issues. Soot levels are fairly stable all round.
I mainly pushed the big oil changes as a test to see how the oil would hold up, especially considering the 24,000km service intervals on the 3L. Overall, I generally have no issues with the oil condition with the longer change intervals.

[DiscoDB]

Thanks Shane (for answering the Dorothy Dixer with real data).

Probably very important to point out that you would probably do a lot more long distance driving plus you live in a much warmer climate than someone that lives in the major cities in the southern parts of Australia.

So your results may not be replicated for someone that is based in a cold climate and does a lot of short distance trips.

[simonmelb]

Very interesting Shane!

How do the ACEA E oils eg E9 spec with extended drain intervals such as Penrite Diesel Enviro+ range compare with the A type? Push the drain intervals out even more?




183774
Statistically no issues. I've pointed out the 3 samples that where very close to 20,000kms on the oil and above. Viscosity no issues at all, there was one sample with a small increase in fuel (2% vs 1%) but not worth worrying about - anything >5% is where I draw the line for fuel. Total base numbers where a little lower but that is to be expected as the additivities are neutralizing acids over time - still plenty in reserve so again no issues. Soot levels are fairly stable all round.
I mainly pushed the big oil changes as a test to see how the oil would hold up, especially considering the 24,000km service intervals on the 3L. Overall, I generally have no issues with the oil condition with the longer change intervals.

[incisor]

just looked at the castrol site for the tdv6 and tdci 2.7l v6 is Castrol Magnatec Stop-Start 5W-30 Engine Oil

and none of the edge range came up as suitable...

hmmmm

[DiscoDB]

just looked at the castrol site for the tdv6 and tdci 2.7l v6 is Castrol Magnatec Stop-Start 5W-30 Engine Oil

and none of the edge range came up as suitable...

hmmmm

It is an interesting pick up Inc. From what I can tell - Castrol are not saying the other oils are not suitable, they are only showing what they recommend and want you to buy.

Pretty sure LRA was exclusively using Castrol Edge Professional back when they were selling the D3/D4’s and they still recommend Edge Professional today.

Looks like Magnatec meets the specs but I note the viscosity is at the thinner end of the SAE30 range compared to Edge or Professional in the same grade.

Not sure why the Castrol site is not offering up the same oil LRA were using as an alternative given they have an exclusive contract with LR to supply oil.

Edit: full disclosure - I don’t use Castrol - but if I was going to stick with the LR recommended oil grade, then I would look to use the Edge or Professional range. I would steer away from oils which are closer to being a substitute for 5W-20.

[PerthDisco]

Something familiar in this video

You Barely Know Your Car - Seinfeld (The Bottle Deposit) - YouTube (https://youtu.be/JY7ISTaymU0)

[shanegtr]

Thanks Shane (for answering the Dorothy Dixer with real data).

Probably very important to point out that you would probably do a lot more long distance driving plus you live in a much warmer climate than someone that lives in the major cities in the southern parts of Australia.

So your results may not be replicated for someone that is based in a cold climate and does a lot of short distance trips.
Actually, the results prior to the end of 2018 was when I was living in Tom Price. There was an awful amount of short trips there running around town, mixed in with longer distance runs. Generally each year I've been up around 30,000km travelled


Very interesting Shane!

How do the ACEA E oils eg E9 spec with extended drain intervals such as Penrite Diesel Enviro+ range compare with the A type? Push the drain intervals out even more?
No idea as I have no data on that spec or on the Penrite Enviro.

[jliquorish]

Yes I did.

Which part sounds watertight to you?
The reasons for the failure of the crankshaft and mitigations (aside from the unproven thickening of oil). So dont buy a car with crankshaft built on Monday(haha), dont unduly load crankshaft at low revs with potential for low oil flow and dont remap TDV6 to SDV6 spec!

[Tombie]

The reasons for the failure of the crankshaft and mitigations (aside from the unproven thickening of oil). So dont buy a car with crankshaft built on Monday(haha), dont unduly load crankshaft at low revs with potential for low oil flow and dont remap TDV6 to SDV6 spec!

Yeah… Nah!!! [emoji23]

I’m happy to play that lottery!

[veebs]

By that logic, buying an SDV6 and de-mapping to TDV6 would improve your reliability…

I don’t buy it. No way would LR build an otherwise identical engine, but swap in a weaker crank for the tdv6

[loanrangie]

Yeah… Nah!!! [emoji23]

I’m happy to play that lottery!

Drive it like you stole it !

[BradC]

I don’t buy it. No way would LR build an otherwise identical engine, but swap in a weaker crank for the tdv6
I don't think that's being suggested. My take is they are suggesting the crank in the 3L is weak, and susceptible to lugging. The implication is the TDV6 isn't going to stress the crank as much as the SDV6 so don't remap.


By that logic, buying an SDV6 and de-mapping to TDV6 would improve your reliability…
I believe that would be the logical implication.

[DiscoDB]

I don't think that's being suggested. My take is they are suggesting the crank in the 3L is weak, and susceptible to lugging. The implication is the TDV6 isn't going to stress the crank as much as the SDV6 so don't remap.


I believe that would be the logical implication.

The lugging argument was a theory being floated on a South African LR forum. The suggestion on the forum was also a remap helps as it means the engine does not have to work as hard.

The reality is unless you have a manual - the only time the motor sees full torque at low revs is with your foot flat to the floor when launching off the lights (a common event when lined up against a 4WD Toyota. [emoji48]). Even then the stall speed of the torque converter is keeping the revs up.

I have never heard of anyone saying their crank snapped when launching from a standing start. I suspect this comment may have been a comment on how Vera drives her manual D3. [emoji15][emoji33]

The crankshaft failures are either spun bearing or fatigue related.

Spun bearings are either - an assembly problem due to not enough crush or poorly located bearings due to no assembly lugs, or an oil viscosity problem - either too thick of an oil when cold causing the bearing to grab and spin, or too thin of an oil when hot resulting in metal on metal contact.

This is why oil grade is so important to get right.

And fatigue related failures, which are contributed to by the weak crank design, would be due to an insufficient bearing journal undercut radius, and as such are more likely due to high revs - not low revs. A remap helps you keep the revs down, use less throttle, whilst not needing to lug the motor either. The extra weight hanging off the crank on the Discovery compared to say the Territory motor adds to this fatigue stress.

This is what Ford claim to have addressed with the upgraded crankshaft in the motor that was used in the F-150, and now in the new Ranger.

A more sensible advice would be to avoid spending lots of time at very high speed which equals higher revs. As you would see in Europe or South Africa.

Oh - and Vera - stop lugging your motor! [emoji849]

[BradC]

And fatigue related failures, which are contributed to by the weak crank design, would be due to an insufficient bearing journal undercut radius, and as such are more likely due to high revs - not low revs. A remap helps you keep the revs down, use less throttle, whilst not needing to lug the motor either. The extra weight hanging off the crank on the Discovery compared to say the Territory motor adds to this fatigue stress.

More torque at lower rotational speed means more load/stress on the crankshaft. For the same amount of power at a lower speed you need a bigger bang (higher combustion chamber pressure). I'm no mechanical engineer, but surely that's more fatiguing than spinning faster.

[DiscoDB]

It can but it is hard to put many cycles at full torque on the crank at this low rpm scenario with an auto under normal use. You would have to lock it in a gear and then intentionally hold it at a constant speed under full load for an extended period of time.

So yes if you tried hard enough you could do this - but do we really think the people who snapped a crank are putting their cars under this type of forced punishment?

Now with a manual very easy to lug the motor for extended periods of time as Christian describes - like on a long steep hill - which you will find lots of near Christian and Vera’s house. Vera - do take note! [emoji28]

The unknown here is understanding what the natural resonant frequency of the crankshaft is and how well is the LR use of this motor set up for torsional vibration compared to say the same motor in a different application with different masses attached to or driven by the engine.

[gavinwibrow]

It can but it is hard to put many cycles at full torque on the crank at this low rpm scenario with an auto under normal use. You would have to lock it in a gear and then intentionally hold it at a constant speed under full load.

So yes if you tried hard enough you could do this - but do we really think the people who snapped a crank are putting their cars under this type of forced punishment?

Now with a manual very easy to lug the motor for extended periods of time as Christian describes - like on a long steep hill.

The unknown here is understanding what the natural resonant frequency of the crankshaft is.


I am normally a pretty sedate driver, and have to admit that, despite Cambo's engine and transmission remap magic, my wee beastie still likes to idle along at about 1100 rpm in 8th, and it can take a reasonable amount of right foot movement before it will drop down a gear for even relatively gentle accelerating (without towing the brick of course).

To my sensitive rear end the car is at the very least on the verge of labouring in this scenario.

I wonder if this is mapped as a supposedly more economical situation, although I agree with the comments here that higher revs in a lower gear is a preferable result.

[DiscoDB]

Well if you can hold high load at 1100rpm - then yes this would not be good.

I would definitely avoid that scenario.

With the unmapped 2.7 I am sure mine just drops back to 5th and wouldn’t stay in 6th at such low rpm unless I have next no throttle.

Maybe that is a problem with the 3.0 - the gearing and transmission mapping is wrong that it does let you hold low rpm at high load for extended times without realising it.

Could turn out to be not such a dumbass observation after all. 🤣

[Discodicky]

Well if you can hold high load at 1100rpm - then yes this would not be good.

I would definitely avoid that scenario.

With the unmapped 2.7 I am sure mine just drops back to 5th and wouldn’t stay in 6th at such low rpm unless I have next no throttle.

Maybe that is a problem with the 3.0 - the gearing and transmission mapping is wrong that it does let you hold low rpm for extended times without realising it.

Could turn out to be not such a dumbass observation after all. 🤣

Mine does it as well with Cambo's tune and at 1100/1200 rpm at 80 kph on the flat it is not under any load whatsoever and is simply idling along doing it very easily. Mind you, prior Cambo's tune it did the same thing; it's a gearing/torque thing with the 3.0 litre....

I really think that many of the comments are overthinking the situation. From what I read re engine probs, there was a batch of faulty crankshafts which were not heat treated correctly and which caused snapping/breaking or whatever you wish to call it.

Can anyone confirm if later engines say, past MY11-12 ish, (my guessing-- I may be a year out) have suffered from snapped shafts?

The second problem was the bearing shells rotating and cutting off oil supply due to incorrect assembly a la Service Bulletin.

Having said that, I think we all agree that oil grade/quality/change intervals etc also has a significant affect on bearing life.

Just my 2 bobs worth anyway.

[DiscoDB]

Mine does it as well with Cambo's tune and at 1100/1200 rpm at 80 kph on the flat it is not under any load whatsoever and is simply idling along doing it very easily. Mind you, prior Cambo's tune it did the same thing; it's a gearing/torque thing with the 3.0 litre....


Would only be bad if there is a bad natural harmonic happening at this low speed as well.

You would probably be using less than 20-30% of the available torque to hold speed on a flat at such low RPM, and less than 10% of the peak torque available at 2000rpm.

[veebs]

Can anyone confirm if later engines say, past MY11-12 ish, (my guessing-- I may be a year out) have suffered from snapped shafts?

I’ve read of these snapping even in the early D5s

[Billy Bignutz]

My my14 went at 140k and had signs of binding on the same bearing as most people. 10k oil changes 10w30 C1 or C4. Mine will lug along the freeway at 100 in 8th at about 1500rpm with 3.5 ton on the back. A worry at such low revs. Off the freeway with no drafting drops back to 7th more often.

[Disco4TT3]

I've read all 11 pages of this thread, watched Shane's vid and the LR Time episode. I get the reasoning around the 5w-30 vs 5w-40 discussion and living in Melbourne with a 3L sitting around 200k that does little towing, I'll err on the side of mostly colder operation (especially with the pouring rain and cool temps outside on xmas eve, WTF?).

But regarding the ACEA classification of either of the oils, Im still confused over which SAPS level to get. I see discussion around using A5/B5, etc which I've read is meant for light duty diesels and not suitable for Discos.

The LR website (https://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/document/LS/2016/708974/proc/G1800713/G1800674) says for DPF engines:

"SAE 5W-30 meeting specification WSS-M2C934-B. If unavailable, 5W-30 meeting specification ACEA C2 may be used."

So talking Castrol, the first preference is the "Castrol EDGE Professional C1 5W-30" which Sparesbox are selling for $270 (https://www.repco.com.au/oils-fluids/engine-oils-fluids/engine-oil/castrol-edge-pro-c1-5w-30-engine-oil-20l-3375617/p/A5483621) - but their site says This does not fit your vehicle.. Mind you, their oil finder doesn't have ANY oils that 'fit this vehicle'?!

This Valvoline site (https://www.valvolineglobal.com/en-ksa/understanding-oil-standards-acea-specifications/) has a description of the different ACEA grades and says:

"Since low-ash oils cannot be used interchangeably, it is essential to select the product suitable for your car’s engine type."

So, LR recommends C1 (low-saps) as preference or C2 (mid-saps) as backup?

To make things more confusing, the Supercheap oil selector recommends a range of 5W-30 oils from A5, B5, C2, C3 - but not C1.

I'm not even sure I have a question here. Just adding my rambling thoughts on the subject now that all of the presents are wrapped and my brain needs a problem to solve... and is failing to make a decision given the inputs provided [bighmmm]

[Graeme]

I see discussion around using A5/B5, etc which I've read is meant for light duty diesels and not suitable for Discos.It's only unsuitable for use with a DPF.

[Disco4TT3]

ah yes - thanks for the correction

[Disco4TT3]

I went with the LR spec Castrol EDGE Professional C1, 5W-30

Supercheap selling the 20L drum for $209 for Boxing Day sale

Castrol EDGE Professional C1, 5W-30 20 Litre 3375617 | Supercheap Auto (https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/castrol-edge-prof-c1-5w-30---20l/SPO7303769.html)