Tubed or Tubeless

[oldie]

I have an MY2010 Defender cab/chas with heavy duty pack which means i have an ex factory GVM of 3500kg, helper springs in the rear and no TC

My heavy duty steel wheels are stamped "Tubed". I take it that this means I must use tubes in my tyres. Right or wrong ?

What is the difference between tubed or tubeless wheels/rims ?

Oldie

[JDNSW]

Tubed or tubeless can actually be used on any rims - provided they are airtight. (some rivetted rims that are not airtight)

However, there seems to have developed a policy by tyre fitters to not fit tubeless to tyres that do not have a raised safety ridge on the bead seat, probably rising from liability concerns.

Worth pointing out that the safety ridges were developed long after tubeless tyres started to be fitted, and when they first appeared had nothing to do with tubeless or tubed tyres.

[goingbush]

I was surprised to find safety rims on my 1949 Fargo Ute, assumed they were custom made but subsequently found Dodge invented the safety rims in 1937 , way before tubeless tyres were in common use in 1955 in USA.

I've ran my LandRover series and Defender rims tubeless ever since I started using radial tyres , (30 years) Even with rivets. Though Ive only just swapped to Wolf rims which are the first Landy rims Ive had which actually have safety rims.

[BreakingBad]

I think you will struggle to find a tyre shop that will fit tubeless tyres to tubed rims. Like JDNSW said, it's probably to do with liability concerns.

[JDNSW]

There is no real issue - if the pressure is low enough for the tyre to come off it will whether it has a tube or no, so I fail to see a valid reason for not fitting tubeless tyres to wheels without the extra bead.

[DazzaTD5]

Tubed or tubeless can actually be used on any rims - provided they are airtight. (some rivetted rims that are not airtight)

However, there seems to have developed a policy by tyre fitters to not fit tubeless to tyres that do not have a raised safety ridge on the bead seat, probably rising from liability concerns.

Worth pointing out that the safety ridges were developed long after tubeless tyres started to be fitted, and when they first appeared had nothing to do with tubeless or tubed tyres.

Everything John has said here is spot on word for word.

Additionally I point out there is no Australian Standards or law that says a tubeless tyre can't be fitted to a tubed rim.

[DazzaTD5]

I was surprised to find safety rims on my 1949 Fargo Ute, assumed they were custom made but subsequently found Dodge invented the safety rims in 1937 , way before tubeless tyres were in common use in 1955 in USA.

I've ran my LandRover series and Defender rims tubeless ever since I started using radial tyres , (30 years) Even with rivets. Though Ive only just swapped to Wolf rims which are the first Landy rims Ive had which actually have safety rims.

yes, I recently got fitted a set of tubeless tyres to a customers series 1 107 and he just did 3800km to Cooma without a issue.

[DazzaTD5]

I think you will struggle to find a tyre shop that will fit tubeless tyres to tubed rims. Like JDNSW said, it's probably to do with liability concerns.

I've said to customers if the tyre shop knows so little about their own profession then I recommend taking it somewhere else.

Considering tubeless tyres are a tighter fit to the rim than tubed tyres they are idiots to believe there is some sort of greater risk.

[goingbush]

Not to mention that when a tubed tyre has a puncture , it's effectively a tubeless tyre so any argument is moot.

[towe0609]

I've had mixed experience asking tyre shops to fit a tubless tyre without a tube to a 'welded' tubed rim.

One (was a Tyrepower at the time) refused and circumstances meant I accepted their advice and ended up with crap quality tubes inside tubeless tyres. Two have obliged without question/discussion (one was a Beaurepaires and the other the local Bandag truck tyre joint).

I will be going elsewhere in future if the shop refuses to fit tubeless tyres without tubes to my rims. I've never had any problems with the tubeless tyres without tubes on tubed rims - but also have had no need to run extremely low pressures.

[vnx205]

I probably should start investigating getting tubeless tyres on my Defender rims next time I need a new set.

The last five flat tyres I have had have all been because of poor quality tubes.

There was no sign of anything having penetrated the tyres, but there was evidence of imperfections in the tubes

[spudfan]

Slightly different topic but related.
I had a puncture in the 110 200 tdi which is fitted with steel rims and tubed tyres. The wheel had to be removed from the vehicle to have the puncture repaired.
The 2.4 Puma is fitted with boost alloy wheels and tubeless tyres. One wheel was losing air so I went to the tyre repair place. They jacked the vehicle up, located a nail in the tyre and removed it and plugged the tyre without removing the wheel from the vehicle.

[windsock]

I probably should start investigating getting tubeless tyres on my Defender rims next time I need a new set.

The last five flat tyres I have had have all been because of poor quality tubes.

There was no sign of anything having penetrated the tyres, but there was evidence of imperfections in the tubes

This. I too had five flat tyres with no evidence of punctures through the tyre but all indications towards poor quality tubes. I have not looked back since going tubeless. I use Disco rims on an early 110.

[scarry]

They jacked the vehicle up, located a nail in the tyre and removed it and plugged the tyre without removing the wheel from the vehicle.

They wouldn't get away with that here,the tyre needs to be patched.
Plugs can be used temporarily.

[swivelrat]

Hi all,

adding to this saga of hot air/litigation BS, I took my new (aged in shed for 6 mths) Toyo Hyper radials in to local tirepower shop for fitting on newly powdercoated steel rims off my '95 130. I had the same tyre shop remove the last Toyo's tyres off the rims prior to sandblasting and powdercoating only a week ago, so they could see that I'd not been running tubes. These tYres had lasted over 100k without puncture, coming off the rim or loosing air from rivets etc.

Come to picking them up, "we had to fit the tyres with the tubes sorry sir, required by law!" I asked if they would attract higher temperatures, eh scoffed and said "Nah mate, she'll be right" I asked if they had fitted the wheels with good quality tubes, they said "everything's made in China these days mate". Guess that's their cop out and my bad iuck.

So on reading this thread, I called up the Beau mob down the hill for a quote. Wow, even more excuses, "we cant fit a tube to a tubeless tyre mate" WTF...they said that the inside of the tyre is ribbed and would rub on the tube creating heat which will wear both the tube out and the tyre??? The tyre is well ribbed and I can appreciate this so what does a man do to save rubber.

Guess you just cant do anything these days...unless you do it yourself.

feeling rather deflated really. My question to Landrover, are the rims designed for tubes or not? With the size of the valve hole, I would have said yes.

[B.S.F.]

A couple of pictures of tubes I've removed from tubeless tyres. They are supposed to be smooth.
Replacing the last of 4 poor quality tubes that only lasted about 3 month (in tubeless tyres), at the now capped Montecollina
bore on the Strzelecki track. It's not easy to inflate tubeless tyres (without tubes) on tubeless rims away from home. I know it can
be done, but not with a small 12 V compressor like the one sitting on the mudguard.
.W.
Edit: I'm actually Adonis-like, but the cheap camera distorted the picture.

[V8Ian]

The camera must've come in a Corn Flakes box! [tonguewink]

[DazzaTD5]

Just some added info that has been covered...

*as someone pointed out, tubeless tyres are not smooth on the inside and as such tubes are not recommended.
*this will cause premature wear and failure of the tube.
*any decent tyre shop should have the professional knowledge about the industry they work in to know the above.
*There is no law or Australian Std that says a tubeless tyre can not be fitted to a tubed type wheel.
*Tubeless wheels do have an extra lip on the inside to assist (i guess) in keeping the tyre fitted to the wheel.
*Tubeless wheels and tubed wheels have a different size hole where the valve goes through, tubeless valves come in both sizes.

*The biggest problem if you read this thread and others seem to be Tyre Power....
*Their staff are either mis-informed, un-trained or a combination of both.

*Purchasing tyres is not a cheap exercise, if a tyre centre wont do as you ask, simply go elsewhere (when you can).

*A while back I got tubeless tyres fitted to a customers 1957 (i think) series one on the original rivetted wheels, only one wouldnt hold air so we fitted a tube and kept it as the spare.

[B.S.F.]

The problem with tyres is that everybody's got them and has an opinion. I don't know how many reviews I've read, written by people after a couple of hours
drive on a Sunday afternoon.
.W.