A long tale of woe.

[ATH]

21st July we set off from Perth along with seven other couples for a trip to Karinjini and other places of interest.
First stop was Wogarno Station which according to their website is a fascinating working sheep station with excellent food.

We set up camp in the scrub on an un-powered site not far from the ablutions, the lack of power not bothering us as the genie was turned off at 1000hrs anyway.
We didn’t need power for fridges that night anyway as there was ice all over campers and vehicles the next morning ……. It was cold!
The ablutions were a disgrace, very rundown ex shearers quarters, nowhere to hang towels or clothes, very dilapidated. We had a late afternoon run to a rock outcrop for drinks and nibbles which was pleasant enough but dinner was awful. An overcooked tasteless lump of beef, very few veg with different members of our party missing out on some bits.
The tastiest part was the Gravox which they’d borrowed from my wife!
Any pub would have served much better grub at half the price.
I reckon website designers went to the same schools as real estate agent and car salesmen. Very imaginative.

The following day we continued to Newman and set up camp in a caravan park which was very clean if a bit crowded. Next morning it was off on a tour of Mt Whaleback and the figures given for tonnages of ore mined and shipped were incredible. I’ve worked around a few mines but nothing comes close to this place.
After this we went to Kalgan Poll which is a spot used by the locals for BBQs and is quite nice.
This is where things started to go wrong as on the drive in my fuel light came on which didn’t bother me much as there was enough left to get us back without running the tank right down.
However I was persuaded to top up with a jerry from someone else and on the way back the Td5 Defender coughed and spluttered a couple of times then picked up and ran with no problems.

Next morning the plan was to drive up to Karinjini just a couple of hours away so we broke camp and proceeded on our way but we hadn’t gone more than 20klms before the vehicle started coughing and spluttering again and the engine then stopped.
We all pulled in and because of the very abrupt “missing’ I suspected a loose connection somewhere but failed to find anything amiss under the seat at the battery or with the computer side. She started OK and ran well for just a couple of minutes then the engine died again.
We decided then to return to Newman and a friend came with us in case of trouble which there certainly was. I bought the only fuel filter for a Td5 available in Newman, removed the old one and then the stupid plastic water sensor snapped as I turned it into the bottom of the new filter! Bugger! I’ve never been that ham fisted before.
Nothing for it but for our mate to tow us to the caravan park with his Disco complete with camper still attached. Couldn’t disconnect it as his towbar was tucked up under an after market step which made it useless to attach a Treg Hitch to.
Anyway we set up camp again and I ordered 2 new filters (just in case) plus a water sensor from Rovacraft in Bayswater Perth (08 9377 0080)
“Pay us when you get back” Stewart said. Thanks for that Stewart.

Not long after we’d got back another couple came in from our group towing a camper from yet another member who’d had fuel problems. I wondered if theirs was dirty fuel but when they eventually got back with assistance from an RAC Tilt truck, other members set to and found that there was power to the fuel pump but it wouldn’t pump for some reason.
They ordered a replacement from the company that services their Td5 Disco and we set about waiting for delivery of our parts. It was decided the rest would continue next day and if possible we’d catch up.

My bits came and I fitted them with no dramas and the vehicle ticked over really smoothly but again coughed and spluttered when on the road. That was the end of our trip as I was not prepared to risk any blockage possibly clearing itself. Or getting worse.
The others fuel pump arrived and we fitted that between us and after testing they were off on their way again.

I had contacted LR Assistance and they quickly agreed to ship the Defender and camper back to Perth although their policy is usually the nearest place it can be fixed which in this case was Karratha, even further away from home.

And there she sits, still waiting for room on a truck because of the extra length of the camper.
Food has gone rotten in the fridge as we never thought it was going to take this long. (If we’d known of the problems in getting it on a truck we could have stayed in Newman and at least relaxed for another week and eaten all the food and drunk loads of beer ).
We stayed overnight in a flea pit of a backpackers as it was the only available accommodation and flew back next day. This so far has cost around $1200 in airfares, taxis, parts etc. and we still don’t know for sure what has gone wrong with the thing!
If it’s dirty fuel from somewhere, not necessarily the jerry we used, I can wear that but what I can’t believe is that no-one can touch these things without another computer to tell them what’s wrong.
They can’t even spell anything other than Toyota up there.

Methinks a change of vehicle to something older, non computer controlled and made in Japan may be on the cards shortly.
At least then there’s a chance of assistance when it’s needed.

A very disgruntled and upset AlanH.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/05/121.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/05/121.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/05/121.jpg

[Grizzly_Adams]

G'day AlanH,

Sorry to hear your tale of woe :(

If you want to stay with LR then there are alternatives - the 200tdi's or 300tdi's are rock solid and all mechanical so any diesel mechanic worth his salt should be able to work around any issues with them, there is also the option of a gassed up V8...

However yes as has been discussed many times before on this board, LRA needs their butts kicked for not getting off their behinds to push dealers out around the outback more :nazilock:

[George130]

Sorry to hear your bad luck. I'm starting to dream of a series rig so it might be cheaper next time I have to do some work on it.

[Tusker]

Thats unfortunate. I know the feeling.

Can you vouch for the fuel that went into it?

Regards
Max P

[Michael2]

If your Defender's still stuck up there?

Can the local mechanic drain the tank and verify the presence of any water or crap in the fuel?
Then disconnect all the fuel filters and clear the fuel lines with compressed air?
Maybe even remove & inspect the fuel pump / pick up?Maybe a half hour of diagnosing could make the vehicle okay to drive back.

I had a problem with an auxillary tank once where there were flakes of what looked like paint on the inside of the tank (maybe they used painted steel to make it). I had similar problems as the paint flake would form a flap that would occlude the fuel line, but then fall off and run okay for a while longer.

I hope it's a cheap fix, the worrying thing with electronics is it's hard to differentially diagnose electrical Vs mechanical Vs fuel problems.

[ATH]

Hi Michael.
I spoke to a mechanic in Newman who has worked on LRs but mostly older stuff. He really wasn't in a position to help at all and I got the impression he was busy with other work and very wary of computer controlled vehicles.
I didn't realise it was going to take so long to ship here or I would have attempted what you suggested.
At this stage I wouldn't allow anyone near it as I'm too far away, don't know anyone up there and who knows what could go on.
Just have to wait for a couple more days and get Rover Tech in Perth to put it on their TestBook to determine hopefully what the fix is.
To say I'm bloody annoyed is understating it.
Alan H.

[CraigE]

If your Defender's still stuck up there?

Can the local mechanic drain the tank and verify the presence of any water or crap in the fuel?
Then disconnect all the fuel filters and clear the fuel lines with compressed air?
Maybe even remove & inspect the fuel pump / pick up?Maybe a half hour of diagnosing could make the vehicle okay to drive back.

I had a problem with an auxillary tank once where there were flakes of what looked like paint on the inside of the tank (maybe they used painted steel to make it). I had similar problems as the paint flake would form a flap that would occlude the fuel line, but then fall off and run okay for a while longer.

I hope it's a cheap fix, the worrying thing with electronics is it's hard to differentially diagnose electrical Vs mechanical Vs fuel problems.
I had similar with my tdi, paint flakes from possiblly a jerry can. Had to empty the tank, open up access hole, remove pump etc and clean out with a rag, remove fuel filter, flush a bit out of the lines (blow through) and refill. Good as gold. Takes a few hours but can be done on the side of the road. I make sure I filter anything from a jerry can now.

[LandyAndy]

Hi Alan
What a bummer.
It could be the common oil in the harness problem rearing its ugly head.
On another tack,my fuel pressure regulator has packed it in,has been driping on shutdown for a couple of months,now it pours out.I was talking to the guys at Britparts today,they are selling an unbeliveable number of these regs lately,both the early and late types.The fact that another member of your party also had fuel probs,and the number of units Britparts say they have sold, I wonder if they have messed with the brew at the Kwinana refinery lately and its causing problems with the inner workings of the vehicles fuel systems.
By the way,thank you for the tyre you saved me a hanfull of$$$ there.
Goodluck with the Defender
Andrew

[Bradtot]

Hmmmmm Alan sounds not like a good trip how many others with landrovers were with u apart from the 2 trip leaders that I know of.
I am sure I will here about it at the next club meet
Lucky u have lra assistance or it would cost you a bloody fortune...and still may......
Dont give up on the mark yet. I am sure kevin will get to the bottom of it and sort it for you.
see you when I do
Brad

[boggo]

Keep us posted please Alan.I like the bit about not being able to spell anything other than toyota,I had the nerve to enquire about some parts in Wiepa once,quite a big place really,and the bloke nearly yelled at me!!

[ATH]

Yes it's still there. LR Assistance are not happy with the truckers as they seem to be making all sorts of excuses. It's too long or they don't like the spare on top, don't like the fact it's locked to our camper, don't like Treg hitches.
They didn't like the stuff I'd left in there as after all when you go away you don't normally travel light and I couldn't take it all on the plane!
They reckon tinned food in plastic containers is "personal effects" !!!!!!!!!! I thought we'd complied with all their requirments but apparently the truckies can get funny if they don't like something.
I don't know what to do for the best.
I wouldn't let a mechanic I didn't know go round there to work on it as I may never see it again!
Looks like I may have to go back and try to get something done somehow.
Alan H.

[Ace]

Sorry to hear about your problems mate but dont let it turn you off the land rover brand. The TD5 is a top engine and is no more computer controlled than most other vehicles of its vintage. I still dont get how test book will tell them its dirty fuel. If there were others in the convoy who experienced the same thing then that is likely to be the cause. Matt

[Michael2]

When I lived in Kununurra 10+ years ago, Toyota was the mainstay, but the dealership only ever kept filters & belts etc in stock, anything larger had to be airbagged overnight. The local Caterpillar dealer was the Land Rover agent, and he kept the same level of stock for Land Rovers (especially military) and again all else was air bagged overnight. By the time I left, at least half the government fleets had gone to Nissans, Defenders were only just introduced and had began to make a showing.

I don't think now-a-days it makes a big difference what brand of vehicle you drive, as most stock is flown in. I think it's new technology that scares the mechanics.

At the time I had a 3 litre Nissan Diesel (Jap import) in my SIII and when the fuel pump reg got a pin hole in the diaphragm, a local diesel mechanic was able to diagnose and get the part for me to repair in a matter of minutes. It wasn't an engine he knew anything about, but it was a level of technology he was comfortable with.

IMHO an older Defender with a Tdi or the HS2.8 would give you the mechanical reliability needed for remote areas. A bit like using a classic Rangie instead of a P38 for comp work.

As for getting the Land Rover trucked down, maybe getting a diagnosis & repair there and then driving it down would be easier. I had my SIII trucked down from Kununurra when I moved to Melb. as I was in the process of going back to a LR motor and the car wasn't drivable. I paid the extra $100 for the car not being drivable. After they dropped it off and I'd signed for it, I noticed that it had been picked up with a forklift and bent the tow bar & front drive shaft:mad:, plus there was a dent on the corner of the bumper.

If anyone on the forum has trucking contacts, then maybe someone can pick it up for you & take that extra bit of care.


Good Luck - Keep us posted.

[CraigE]

Yep, its a pain to get a car transported with anything inside it. Most of them will not even let you leave spare parts, oil, coolant etc in them. We planned on getting our Disco freighted a while back to avoid several days travelling, but could not leave our fridge, camping gear inside etc, so we drove.
You would think that LRA would have preffered haulage companies that will pick the lot up. Maybe have a talk to RAC as they have to frequently picke up broken down vehicles. They may be able to point you and LRA in the right direction.
:(

[Michael2]

When I broke a spring at Uluru on the way back from our Simpson Trip a couple of months ago, I called RAC to arrange a a tow back to Melb. and a hire car. They said I was in a remote area and they couldn't get me a hire car. I told them there was an airport with a resort and 5 car hire companies where I was. They said they'd call back. When they called back they said they could get me a hire car in 4 weeks time out of Alice Springs, as there were no cars available for out of state hire. They recommended flying me home and said the Land Rover would take 4-5 weeks to be trucked back!!!

Quite an unimpressive level of insurance:mad: We cancelled the claim, removed and welded the spring and drove home, we had to reweld after 2,000km, but that's still easier than mucking around with people who take your money, but don't want to make an effort to assist to the promised level. I asked if they would fly in a new spring instead of flying me and my passanger out and trucking the car back - that way we could save eachother money - but that was just too hard for them.

[BigJon]

An ex of mine had a car transported from Karratha to Adelaide and lost a folder full of important personal documents from inside the car while it was in transit. Generally speaking the vehicle won't be locked while it is on the truck and the truck driver has to sleep/eat/etc. Anyone could climb on the truck and flog stuff while it is parked, so it is not always the truckie at fault.

[mrapocalypse]

If it's going to cost you thousands to put it on a truck and maybe lose your gear what about doing a phone hookup with a local guy and a trusted mech in the city.

The electronics are complex but they have almost no moving parts and a fault will show up in some way. At least then you'll know what it might be.

Don't be surprised if your LR care people are messing the truckers around too. It can work both ways and these people are in contact with each other all the time so a fair bit of gaming goes on.

[ATH]

Thanks for the suggestions fellas. LR use the RAC or whoever the equivalent is in other states. The other vehicle with problems had no more after we'd installed the new fuel pump so it wasn't fuel we'd got from a servo, although I had topped up in Cue.
But then so do loads of trucks so it may not be that at all. No one I spoke to in Newman could offer a diagnosis or would attempt to do it including the RAC bloke.
I inquired about vehicle up there to load stuff in and drive back but was told in no uncertain terms that no way would anyone allow a vehicle to leave Newman and if they did I'd have to pay for every day it was away plus trucking charges to get it back!! Sounded like a mortgage job to me but as noone was willing it didn't matter.
Looks like another trip there and if I can I'll take someone with me in another vehicle just in case.
Alan H.

[CraigE]

Got to say it is pretty damn poor when you can not get a simple service like that. If you still have the LR assist package, iw ould be going in and telling them to get the damn car back and do it now as the are in breach of their warranty.
I would do the basics like clean the fuel system and check the ecu harness for oil etc.
Any LR fanatics/mechanics heading up or live up that way that can have a look for you???
Or anyone coming back that can at least tow your trailer back??
Will free up the vehicle you go back up in to tow a car trailer and haul it back.
If you have to be going back up I would be asking LR to at least supply a Rovacom diagnostic computer for your trip up. They could talk you through it on the phone.

[Jamo]

Sorry to hear about your problems Alan, but there seems to be a few posts here concerned with 'electronics'.

The way I understand it a fuel pump is mechanical and any mechanic worth his/her salt should be able to replace a fuel pump or clean an fuel system. Parts availablility is another thing and is irrespective of what car you drive. Having travelled the Kimberley, I know that there are good mechanics up there, but I realise it's hard if you don't know where.

IMO if a mechanic is 'scared' of touching any car with 'electronics', then I'm not going near that mechanic! Not because I've got an electronic car, but because I think that it shows no ability for lateral thinking and therefore no ability for correct problem solving. There's nothing worse than having to deal with a self-proclaimed 'legend' who won't listen to what your telling him becasue 'he knows what's wrong already'. (Something I've encountered with every car I've ever owed, including my XY falcon (find me the electronics on that!)).

I don't blame you for not wanting them to touch the car Alan, I wouldn't either.

[Martin]

Alan, sorry to hear your woes. I recently returned from an 8K trip round the east coast up to Fraser island, and back to SA cross country in my td5 defender. Before going, my local landrover mechanic advised that the fuel filter is the most important spare to take if you are travelling into remote areas, as the quality of the fuel can be very poor. He also recommended a weekly, rather than monthly draining of the filter. His advice was any coughing, spluttering or rough running at all, immediately change the filter.

Sad that you are thinking of leaving the defender. I love mine, but I do occasionaly worry about reliability and repair costs. Still - I am unlikely to change it, as I dont think I could bare to part with the old girl.

[ATH]

I'm making inquiries re hiring a ute or 4 x4 to go up there and unload the so called "personal" items in an effort to smooth the path of getting the thing back to Perth. May even be able to hook the camper up then they've really got no arguement ...... I hope.
Alan H.

[CraigE]

Sorry to hear about your problems Alan, but there seems to be a few posts here concerned with 'electronics'.

The way I understand it a fuel pump is mechanical and any mechanic worth his/her salt should be able to replace a fuel pump or clean an fuel system. Parts availablility is another thing and is irrespective of what car you drive. Having travelled the Kimberley, I know that there are good mechanics up there, but I realise it's hard if you don't know where.

IMO if a mechanic is 'scared' of touching any car with 'electronics', then I'm not going near that mechanic! Not because I've got an electronic car, but because I think that it shows no ability for lateral thinking and therefore no ability for correct problem solving. There's nothing worse than having to deal with a self-proclaimed 'legend' who won't listen to what your telling him becasue 'he knows what's wrong already'. (Something I've encountered with every car I've ever owed, including my XY falcon (find me the electronics on that!)).

I don't blame you for not wanting them to touch the car Alan, I wouldn't either.Jamo.
I agree, but have found the opposite with the new breed of mechanics are lost when it comes to carbies and good with electronics. Most do not want to know outside their own little world though, usually Toymota. As with all tradies it is getting harder to get hold of good knowlegable ones that can problem solve.

[LandyAndy]

Hi Alan
How about putting a SOS call out here??? we are all mates willing to help where possible.Unfortunately I cant help but others may be up for a "country drive" with you.Could work out cheaper than hiring.
Goodluck
Andrew

[ATH]

Hi Andy. Nice idea but there "may" be some light on the horizon now as LRA/RACWA say they weren't informed of the problem by the transporters. Apparently by the time the truck got round to pick mine up, the top deck was full and with limited height underneath and with the tyre on top it wouldn't fit.
A local truckie up there is going to bring it down and hopefully the weekend will see it here in Perth. RAC said it would be taken to the stealers but I jumped on that idea and asked that the driver be given my number and I'll get him to take it to Rovertech.
I'm just so annoyed by the fact that we flew out on the assumption it would be down here just after the weekend that I wasn't able to really pursue getting someone to attempt a fix up there. All I could think of was getting it somewhere that would know for definite what was wrong especially after the negative attitudes in Newman plus the lack of accommodation up there.
It's a busy little town which is why so many workers are now FIFO and are not resident as they were years ago.
Anyway, here's hoping.
Alan.

[LandyAndy]

Hi Alan
If you end up stuck for a truckie,one of the local truckies son runs his own roadtrains perth/kimberley.Yell out I will get you a contact,they are top blokes.You may be lucky and get a backload.
Andrew

[Jamo]

You may be lucky and get a backload.
Andrew

I think that there's some pills you can get for that!

[ATH]

Thanks Andy.
Latest is that early next week it will "definitely" be here, but I'll believe it when I see it.
I'll let you know if it doesn't as I may well have to take my own recovery action which is disgusting but if that's what it takes I will, and take action against LRA for failure to carry out their side of the extended recovery warranty later.
Don't like the thought of going to the other side for a vehicle but if I'm going to be stuck hundreds of kays from anyone who can even diagnose what a prob. is because it's a Land Rover, that's what I'll do.
If they'd said they'd only ship it to Karratha it would still be stuck and eventually end up even further from home and that would involve even more expence to get it back!
I ain't happy.
Alan.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/05/121.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/05/121.jpg

[stusgonesailing]

G'day Alan
glad you seem to be getting it under control.

We should raise the isse of LROCWA buying a Rovacom or similar for use on trips away. May help with some of the issues.

See ya at the next meeting

Stu

[BigJon]

If they'd said they'd only ship it to Karratha it would still be stuck and eventually end up even further from home and that would involve even more expence to get it back!

There is a Dealer in Karratha, seemed like a good bloke when I met him at a training course in Perth last year. I am sure LR will organise transport. I have had many dealings with the Customer Care people and they usually get it right... in the end.

[ATH]

Hi Stu and Big Jon.
The clubs got enough money Stu but there'd probably be competetion as to who had it and who took it on a trip. Although then you need someone to be able to use it and follow up with a fix.
I spoke to Karratha LR Big Jon and he offered advice but if we had gone there we may still have been waiting for it to turn up and probably living in a motel, if there was room available that is.
It's cost me enough with airfares etc. so far without weeks in motels especially when I should be at work! What can you do in Karratha without a car?
The same arguements as to why it's taken so long would have been used to explain the delay in shipping it there...... it's too long with the camper, it's too high with the roof rack and tyre, it's got personal gear in there.
I'm not even sure LR know it's not been trucked to Perth long ago so will ring them later but they still be using RACWA to arrange shipping so it'll just go round and round in circles.
Waiting not very patiently now......https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/05/121.jpg
Alan.

[LandyAndy]

Hi Alan
Possible cause for you to check.
Was looking on the RAVE CD into how to replace my fuel pressure reg.There is a gauze filter in the reg.Possibly crud got past your filter and blocked it???
Andrew

[boggo]

I may well have to take my own recovery action which is disgusting but if that's what it takes I will, and take action against LRA for failure to carry out their side of the extended recovery warranty

This might happen Alan.I dont know if the extended warranty is different to the standard LRA that comes with the vehicle when you buy it,but they will only cover the cost if it is a manufacturing fault.

[Redback]

You know i will never understand car and truck mechanics as long as i live, they keep crappin on about not knowing anything about X vehicle because they say they only know about Y vehicle, to me thats a copout, an engine or gearbox is just that an engine or gearbox.

Take a diff specialist, i'll bet he doesn't care what vehicle the diff or gearbox comes out of.

If motorcycle mechanics behaved like that they would go broke:twisted:

OK i've vented now.

Baz.

[Ace]

You know i will never understand car and truck mechanics as long as i live, they keep crappin on about not knowing anything about X vehicle because they say they only know about Y vehicle, to me thats a copout, an engine or gearbox is just that an engine or gearbox.

Take a diff specialist, i'll bet he doesn't care what vehicle the diff or gearbox comes out of.

If motorcycle mechanics behaved like that they would go broke:twisted:

OK i've vented now.

Baz.

I'll second that, they all have pistons and crankshafts with a few other similar bits, not rocket science really. Matt