Towing a 21 ft caravan with a 90

[PeterAllum]

First post on the forum and looking for some guidance or feedback.

I own a 90 P400X and have towed some small off grid patriot vans in the past. We were at the caravan and camping show at Rosehill and ended up putting a deposit down on a 21 ft Caravan. The van is 2300 tare and 2800 ATM, ball weight of 150kg.

There aren't a lot of good reviews about towing anything of that sort of size online so wondered if anyone using their 90 to tow something that size or larger? And if there is any advice you can give, other than don't do it?

TIA Pete

[gavinwibrow]

First post on the forum and looking for some guidance or feedback.

I own a 90 P400X and have towed some small off grid patriot vans in the past. We were at the caravan and camping show at Rosehill and ended up putting a deposit down on a 21 ft Caravan. The van is 2300 tare and 2800 ATM, ball weight of 150kg.

There aren't a lot of good reviews about towing anything of that sort of size online so wondered if anyone using their 90 to tow something that size or larger? And if there is any advice you can give, other than don't do it?

TIA Pete

I'd be very reluctant.
I used to tow my 21 foot 3500 kgm brick with my D2a and that was "interesting" at times.
I like the longer wheelbase and extra weight of my D4 which allows the car to better steady the swinging van eg in strong sidewinds. I so have ASCO anti sway on the van.
No doubt others will chime in and have differing views.

[shack]

First post on the forum and looking for some guidance or feedback.

I own a 90 P400X and have towed some small off grid patriot vans in the past. We were at the caravan and camping show at Rosehill and ended up putting a deposit down on a 21 ft Caravan. The van is 2300 tare and 2800 ATM, ball weight of 150kg.

There aren't a lot of good reviews about towing anything of that sort of size online so wondered if anyone using their 90 to tow something that size or larger? And if there is any advice you can give, other than don't do it?

TIA PeteHi Peter,

What's the wheelbase on the 90?

I can't remember and don't feel like searching!

In my experience the wheelbase of a vehicle and it's operating gvm make a big difference to towing stability.

[PeterAllum]

Hi Peter,

What's the wheelbase on the 90?

I can't remember and don't feel like searching!

In my experience the wheelbase of a vehicle and it's operating gvm make a big difference to towing stability.



Hi Shack,

The wheelbase is 2587mm
Gross Vehicle Mass 2970kg (6547.7 lbs)
Gross Combination Mass 6470kg (14263.9 lbs)

Thanks, Pete

[shack]

Hi Shack,

The wheelbase is 2587mm
Gross Vehicle Mass2970kg (6547.7 lbs)
Gross Combination Mass6470kg (14263.9 lbs)

Thanks, PeteThe wheelbase is slightly longer than a Discovery 2, it might be ok, it would be more stable with full air suspension and stability control etc, but it could be a bit twitchy.

I'd think it would an "ok" option, but a longer wheelbase would definitely be better.

Not much help I guess!

[PeterAllum]

The wheelbase is slightly longer than a Discovery 2, it might be ok, it would be more stable with full air suspension and stability control etc, but it could be a bit twitchy.

I'd think it would an "ok" option, but a longer wheelbase would definitely be better.

Not much help I guess!


Thanks for the point of view Shack... much appreciated!

I think it is something I'll have to just give it a go and see... if it does feel too unsafe I guess I'll have to look at changing the 90 for something a little longer.

[shack]

Thanks for the point of view Shack... much appreciated!

I think it is something I'll have to just give it a go and see... if it does feel too unsafe I guess I'll have to look at changing the 90 for something a little longer.I'd probably have a go as well

[scarry]

but it could be a bit twitchy.



There are reports the 110 is like that,compared to other tugs on the market,towing the big weights,have a look at some of the tow tests around.

FWIW,a mate of mine has had a new V6 Ranger "Sport" for the last 12 weeks,he tows a van that weighs around 2.8T.

His comment was the Ranger doesn't pull the van anywhere near as well as his old LC200.
The only good thing is the Ranger is slightly better on fuel,but the difference is negligable.

It comes down to weight, as well,the heavier the tow vehicle,the better they tow.
The golden rule is to never tow anything heavier than the tow vehicle.

What does the 90 weigh?

Anyway,as others have said,give it a go and see what you think.

[PeterAllum]

There are reports the 110 is like that,compared to other tugs on the market,towing the big weights,have a look at some of the tow tests around.

FWIW,a mate of mine has had a new V6 Ranger "Sport" for the last 12 weeks,he tows a van that weighs around 2.8T.

His comment was the Ranger doesn't pull the van anywhere near as well as his old LC200.
The only good thing is the Ranger is slightly better on fuel,but the difference is negligable.

It comes down to weight, as well,the heavier the tow vehicle,the better they tow.
The golden rule is to never tow anything heavier than the tow vehicle.

What does the 90 weigh?

Anyway,as others have said,give it a go and see what you think.

Thanks Paul..

Unladen weight of the 90 is 2141KG, so with fuel/passengers/spare wheel/cargo etc.. we probably just about outweight the tare of the trailer... (2300kg) but it will be very close!!

It may have to be a little slow and steady to feel how it behaves. I was also thinking it would be a good idea to add some ESC on the trailer to keep it behaving as well as possible.

[shack]

Thanks Paul..

Unladen weight of the 90 is 2141KG, so with fuel/passengers/spare wheel/cargo etc.. we probably just about outweight the tare of the trailer... (2300kg) but it will be very close!!

It may have to be a little slow and steady to feel how it behaves. I was also thinking it would be a good idea to add some ESC on the trailer to keep it behaving as well as possible.The only reviews I've seen on the 110 were positive as regards towing, but I really haven't invested much time on it.

The 90 in comparison won't be as good, but realistically should be better than a D2, and we tow more than that here with D2s.

It might be fine.

Let us all know how you get on!

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Wont the 90 have trailer control , or anti sway, or whatever LR call it these days??

[zilch]

There are reports the 110 is like that,compared to other tugs on the market,towing the big weights,have a look at some of the tow tests around..

I tow a 3.1T Zone Off Road van with our P400 110 and it is stable as a rock, I see the same reports from other 110 Defender owners, their van just follows with minimum fuss. The weigh company that checked ours out stated the long wheelbase and short rear overhang makes it a superb vehicle for towing and we’re impressed when it ran with a lower TBW % figure vs ATM than recommended (6.9) but with zero sway which can be a common issue on many tow vehicles..

[shack]

I tow a 3.1T Zone Off Road van with our P400 110 and it is stable as a rock, I see the same reports from other 110 Defender owners, their van just follows with minimum fuss. The weigh company that checked ours out stated the long wheelbase and short rear overhang makes it a superb vehicle for towing and we’re impressed when it ran with a lower TBW % figure vs ATM than recommended (6.9) but with zero sway which can be a common issue on many tow vehicles..Yeah, that mirrors what I'd read, but I haven't followed up any further... I'd be surprised if they weren't as good as the D3/D4 which we use, and they are probably as good as anything in their class, maybe the best even.(D3/D4 I'm talking)

[PeterAllum]

I'll feedback as and when I learn more so any results are clear to the forum.

We are expecting delivery of the van in September, but am also looking at renting a trailing to go and do some towing course so that I can practice driving around with something bigger than an X3 on the back. Anything I can share I will back on this thread.

I also need to try find some towing mirrors, having seen from another thread on here there do not seem to be a lot of options. For those that tow with a 110, what do you use?

Cheers

[zilch]

I'll feedback as and when I learn more so any results are clear to the forum.

We are expecting delivery of the van in September, but am also looking at renting a trailing to go and do some towing course so that I can practice driving around with something bigger than an X3 on the back. Anything I can share I will back on this thread.

I also need to try find some towing mirrors, having seen from another thread on here there do not seem to be a lot of options. For those that tow with a 110, what do you use?

Cheers

Get the Defender 3D tow mirror mounts and a set of Milenco and you should not go wrong, I use the D3D mounts with Brunsgaard

[Eric SDV6SE]

Thanks Paul..

Unladen weight of the 90 is 2141KG, so with fuel/passengers/spare wheel/cargo etc.. we probably just about outweight the tare of the trailer... (2300kg) but it will be very close!!

It may have to be a little slow and steady to feel how it behaves. I was also thinking it would be a good idea to add some ESC on the trailer to keep it behaving as well as possible.

It has been documented that with the short wheelbase of the 90, its possible to develop a shimmy when towing, this is because the ratio of cars wheel base to tow point and the vans distance from tow point to axle(s) is in favour of the van.

Also, remember the current Defenders, like the D4 and D5 all have trailer sway control built in. Last I checked with JLR, they do not recommend a separate sway or stability control like the Alko system, as this may work against the car's trailervsawy control.

In my view, a 90 defender towing a 2.3 to 2.8t van is perhaps not ideal, I'm sure the engine a d trans can do it, but stability would be "interesting".

[IanR]

It has been documented that with the short wheelbase of the 90, its possible to develop a shimmy when towing, this is because the ratio of cars wheel base to tow point and the vans distance from tow point to axle(s) is in favour of the van.

Also, remember the current Defenders, like the D4 and D5 all have trailer sway control built in. Last I checked with JLR, they do not recommend a separate sway or stability control like the Alko system, as this may work against the car's trailervsawy control.

In my view, a 90 defender towing a 2.3 to 2.8t van is perhaps not ideal, I'm sure the engine a d trans can do it, but stability would be "interesting".

We tow a Kimberley Kruiser S (which is in 2.3 to 2.8t range) with our MHEV 90 - no shimmy, no sway.
Very happy with 90 towing this weight.
Previously towed Kimberley with D4 TDV6.
Prior to that a D3 and an Ultimate Camper.
Starting with D3 when towing, always drive with transmission in Sport mode as this helps with transmission temp.