Lithium with a traxide system.

[loanrangie]

Thinking out aloud, is there some kind of converter that you could use in conjunction with an existing traxide controller that would charge a lithium keeping the benefits of the traxide ?
So it would something like this - main batt > traxide reg > other device > lithium battery.

[drivesafe]

Hi LoanRanger and if your current vehicle is the D3, you can run a lithium battery as your auxiliary battery without any modifications or additional equipment.

This also applies to the older Defenders.

You need to be careful of your brand of lithium battery.

The size is irrelevant but it must be able to safely tolerate 100+ amps of continuous charging while charging.

Other than that, all should be fine and using a lithium as the auxiliary should not only keep your Lead Acid cranking battery fully charged at all times, but your cranking battery should last quite a few years more than usual.

While this setup works with the older Traxide devices, that are permanently set at SHEARED Mode, but with the newer Traxide isolators, by setting the isolator to IGNITION/STORAGE Mode, will give more protection to what ever brand of lithium battery you get.

SPECIAL NOTE, this setup DOES NOT work with D4s and any newer Land Rover, because of the extreme way the SMART alternator works.

[loanrangie]

Hi LoanRanger and if your current vehicle is the D3, you can run a lithium battery as your auxiliary battery without any modifications or additional equipment.

This also applies to the older Defenders.

You need to be careful of your brand of lithium battery.

The size is irrelevant but it must be able to safely tolerate 100+ amps of continuous charging while charging.

Other than that, all should be fine and using a lithium as the auxiliary should not only keep your Lead Acid cranking battery fully charged at all times, but your cranking battery should last quite a few years more than usual.

While this setup works with the older Traxide devices, that are permanently set at SHEARED Mode, but with the newer Traxide isolators, by setting the isolator to IGNITION/STORAGE Mode, will give more protection to what ever brand of lithium battery you get.

SPECIAL NOTE, this setup DOES NOT work with D4s and any newer Land Rover, because of the extreme way the SMART alternator works.


Awesome, thanks Tim. I think the 100+ plus amps may be an issue.

[drivesafe]

Awesome, thanks Tim. I think the 100+ plus amps may be an issue.

There are a lot of GOOD brands of lithium batteries that will safely tolerate 100 amps and higher.

Have you already purchased a lithium?

[loanrangie]

There are a lot of GOOD brands of lithium batteries that will safely tolerate 100 amps and higher.

Have you already purchased a lithium?

No just thinking about my next aux. battery and thinking that it might be time to look at lithium .
I would have thought that the BMS would regulate the input voltage/amps for charging.

[drivesafe]

No just thinking about my next aux. battery and thinking that it might be time to look at lithium .
I would have thought that the BMS would regulate the input voltage/amps for charging.
Most Lithium Battery internal BMS only regulate the VOLTAGE.

Some have over current protection but even this is for extreme currents, not the continuous charge current.

[scarry]

While this setup works with the older Traxide devices, that are permanently set at SHEARED Mode, but with the newer Traxide isolators, by setting the isolator to IGNITION/STORAGE Mode, will give more protection to what ever brand of lithium battery you get.

SPECIAL NOTE, this setup DOES NOT work with D4s and any newer Land Rover, because of the extreme way the SMART alternator works.

In Storage mode the DT90 will turn off after about 15 minutes and drop power to the accessories output,so basically it will just work as a relay?

To get around this, wire the accessories cable directly to the aux battery,with the appropriate fuse,and a low voltage cut out would suffice.

[drivesafe]

Hi Paul, and with a lead acid auxiliary battery, yes that is how it works, because lead acid batteries settle to a maximum voltage of 12.7v and the DT90 shuts down at 12.9v.

So once the battery voltage settles below 12.9v, the 15 minute timeout begins.

But with lithium batteries, because they have a continuous 13.3v settled voltage for 80% of their discharge cycle, the DT90 will remain on.

The DT90, when set to Ignition/Storage Mode will not Timeout until the lithium battery is discharged down to around the 20%.

So leave the accessories connected to the DT90 ACCESSORIES output and both the cranking battery and the Lithium battery will be protected.

[loanrangie]

So it looks like my 85ah AGM is on its last legs, ideally i'd replace it with a LIPO but 2 issues. 1 is it needs to fit in the under bonnet aux compartment which a 60AH will fit, 2 it needs to work with the existing SC80 but having trouble finding an affordable solution that can handle the higher charge amps.

[BradC]

1 is it needs to fit in the under bonnet aux compartment

I haven't seen one yet that is likely to survive under bonnet temperatures. Interested to see if you come up with anything.

[loanrangie]

I haven't seen one yet that is likely to survive under bonnet temperatures. Interested to see if you come up with anything.

The aux compartment is largely protected from the heat, my AGM has been in there for 7 years and only just showing signs of failing.

[BradC]

The aux compartment is largely protected from the heat, my AGM has been in there for 7 years and only just showing signs of failing.

Right, in which case I'm watching closely because I want one too. I can't put a battery on the other side because of the heater, so that's my only under-bonnet option.

[drivesafe]

The aux compartment is largely protected from the heat, my AGM has been in there for 7 years and only just showing signs of failing.
Hi Loanrangie and first off, I have zero first hand experience with using lithium batteries under the bonnet. I always mount my lithium batteries in the boot.

I have seen quite a few posts in different places, where people have had problems with lithium batteries when mounted under the bonnet ( Usually short lifespan ) but I have read far, far more posts where others have had no issues at all.

So in my case it is each unto his own.

But as pointed out in this thread, the D3 and D4 auxiliary battery compartment on the drivers side, does give a fair amount of protection for any battery against the harsh engine bay environment.

Although I now know of quite a few people who have mounted a lithium battery on my tray in front of the cranking battery and all seams well.

If Tombie is reading this, I hope he can chime in and give us his experience with lithium batteries mounted in both locations.

One thing though, finding a lithium battery with a low enough height clearance to be able to put the cover back on the auxiliary battery compartment is the main challenge.

[loanrangie]

Hi Loanrangie and first off, I have zero first hand experience with using lithium batteries under the bonnet. I always mount my lithium batteries in the boot.

I have seen quite a few posts in different places, where people have had problems with lithium batteries when mounted under the bonnet ( Usually short lifespan ) but I have read far, far more posts where others have had no issues at all.

So in my case it is each unto his own.

But as pointed out in this thread, the D3 and D4 auxiliary battery compartment on the drivers side, does give a fair amount of protection for any battery against the harsh engine bay environment.

Although I now know of quite a few people who have mounted a lithium battery on my tray in front of the cranking battery and all seams well.

If Tombie is reading this, I hope he can chime in and give us his experience with lithium batteries mounted in both locations.

One thing though, finding a lithium battery with a low enough height clearance to be able to put the cover back on the auxiliary battery compartment is the main challenge.

Yes that's why i am looking at the 60AH size as they will fit under the lid, problem is i cant find any that mention the maximum charging amps.
They usually state voltage but not amps, i want to keep SC80 as it works so well and not have to go to a DC-DC device.

[drivesafe]

Yes that's why i am looking at the 60AH size as they will fit under the lid, problem is i cant find any that mention the maximum charging amps.
They usually state voltage but not amps, i want to keep SC80 as it works so well and not have to go to a DC-DC device.
Hi Loanranger, SSB have some low profile lithium batteries, and one of their 100Ah batteries, V-LFP-12-100S is only 4mm longer and 6mm higher than an Optima Yellowtop and should fit.

I have no idea whether these are any good or not as I have had no experience with them.

The specs are not shown but as they are a cranking battery, charging currents should not be a problem.

[Tins]

On the subject of temperature, over 45 years ago the Jaguar XJ12 had very high under bonnet readings. The battery was mounted under there with its very own fan, which seemed like a good idea. Of course, being Jaguar, the fan would fail, followed in short order by the battery. But it’s an idea.

[Tins]

Tim, you have said before that my SC-80 would be ideal to use on my OKA. I am going to need to get new batteries for the “house “ before I go anywhere in the thing. Ideally I’d like to keep one battery as lead acid for potential jump starts ( OKA has places for four in its standard mount, and plenty of room elsewhere for more if required) but I would consider LiPo for the other stuff. Can the SC-80 charge all of this? OKA only has a dumb two wire alternator, and an MPPT solar regulator. Currently the two systems are independent, but that means that the house batteries only charge when it’s sunny.
if I can do this could you perhaps give me a rough wiring diagram ?

[TonyC]

Tim, you have said before that my SC-80 would be ideal to use on my OKA. I am going to need to get new batteries for the “house “ before I go anywhere in the thing. Ideally I’d like to keep one battery as lead acid for potential jump starts ( OKA has places for four in its standard mount, and plenty of room elsewhere for more if required) but I would consider LiPo for the other stuff. Can the SC-80 charge all of this? OKA only has a dumb two wire alternator, and an MPPT solar regulator. Currently the two systems are independent, but that means that the house batteries only charge when it’s sunny.
if I can do this could you perhaps give me a rough wiring diagram ?

Is the OKA 12 or 24 volt?
House battery 12 or 24 volt?

Tony

[Tins]

Is the OKA 12 or 24 volt?
House battery 12 or 24 volt?

Tony

I don't think they had invented 24V. I'm lucky it isn't 6V.[bigrolf]

The whole thing is 12V, except of course for the caravan 240V plug, which only connects to a GPO.

[Tins]

I used to be able to work this stuff out, but I'm finding the drugs are playing games with my reasoning.

[drivesafe]

Tim, you have said before that my SC-80 would be ideal to use on my OKA. I am going to need to get new batteries for the “house “ before I go anywhere in the thing. Ideally I’d like to keep one battery as lead acid for potential jump starts ( OKA has places for four in its standard mount, and plenty of room elsewhere for more if required) but I would consider LiPo for the other stuff. Can the SC-80 charge all of this? OKA only has a dumb two wire alternator, and an MPPT solar regulator. Currently the two systems are independent, but that means that the house batteries only charge when it’s sunny.
if I can do this could you perhaps give me a rough wiring diagram ?
The best setup in your vehicle would be a Lead Acid cranking battery, then the SC80 wired between the cranking battery and any number of lithium batteries.
As long as the MPPT is set up for lithium battery charging, it could simply be connected to any one of the lithium batteries and all the batteries, including the cranking battery, would be charged by the solar panels.

[Narangga]

Hi Loanranger, SSB have some low profile lithium batteries, and one of their 100Ah batteries, V-LFP-12-100S is only 4mm longer and 6mm higher than an Optima Yellowtop and should fit.

I have no idea whether these are any good or not as I have had no experience with them.

The specs are not shown but as they are a cranking battery, charging currents should not be a problem.

Is this the one you mean? V-LFP-12-100S Fusion Lithium 12V Deep Cycle Battery - Superstart Batteries (https://superstart.com.au/product/v-lfp-12-100s/)

The max charge current is shown as 100A, although it says it is a Fusion battery - not an SSB branded.

[loanrangie]

No price which is a give away that it's more than what I'd want to pay.

[Tins]

No price which is a give away that it's more than what I'd want to pay.
Yeah, well the 200 is $1900 from battery zone. Can’t find the 100 on the site.

V-LFP-12-200 Fusion Lithium 12V Deep Cycle Battery | Battery Zone (https://batteryzone.com.au/product/v-lfp-12-200ah/)

[DiscoDB]

This is the range of SSB lithium starting batteries. I don’t see anywhere where they say suits under bonnet use though.

[url]https://superstart.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/SSB-Lithium-Starting-Brochure-2024.pdf

https://superstart.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/SSB-Lithium-Starting-Brochure-2024.pdf

[DieselLSE]

The V-LFP-12-100S Fusion Lithium 12V Deep Cycle Battery brochure says:


Can be charged with standard 3-Stage AGM smart charges and alternators

Now, I have Tim's Traxide setup with a US160 in a D4. Does this mean I can replace the SSB HVT-50D AGM with the LFP-12 and all will work OK?

[scarry]

FWIW,ARB now have a slimline, Lithium battery with built in DC/DC charger,etc,designed to be mounted in the rear of a vehicle.

Although it is pretty expensive.

[loanrangie]

The V-LFP-12-100S Fusion Lithium 12V Deep Cycle Battery brochure says:


Can be charged with standard 3-Stage AGM smart charges and alternators

Now, I have Tim's Traxide setup with a US160 in a D4. Does this mean I can replace the SSB HVT-50D AGM with the LFP-12 and all will work OK?

From what Tim has said yes, as long as the battery/bms can handle 100a charging. Main issue will be engine bay heat unless you can overcome that somehow.

[loanrangie]

I need something that will fit in the aux compartment so i think my best option is to get one that can handle 100a charge and take the cells and bms out of the case since they all have lots of packing and make my own if get an empty case and retro fit.