Winching In and Out of a Shed

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

I would like to set up a system where vehicles I am working on can be pulled into my shed at the start of the day and then pulled out at the shed at the end of the day. I am planning on getting one of the local bobcat operators in with their widest auger and did a hole where two steel I-beams can be concreted into the ground. One steel I-beam will be at the back of the shed.

Distances
The other I-beam will be 18 metres (59 feet) away from the front of the shed and be positioned in a garden. The total distance between the two I beams will be 27 metres (88.5 feet).

Load Capacity
The vehicles to be winched in and out of the shed range from a 1940 MCP Chevrolet Holden General Service truck to a Land Rover Defender.

Operational
Remote press button operation from inside the vehicle's cabin
A 12 volt battery operated system.
Possibly something like the type of winch that gets fitted to a four wheel drive vehicle. Instead, of mounting it onto a vehicle, mounting the winch on a steel frame that is hooked to the I-beam anchor point. Then the winch hook or shackle being hooked to the vehicle.

Limitations
My lack of knowledge about powered winches. I have plenty of experience with manually operated Tirfor winches - not powered ones

Background
Yesterday afternoon, I had another vehicle become inoperable while it was parked outside of my shed. I do have a tractor and other vehicles I could use to tow the currently immobile vehicle into the shed. As things some time go, the vehicle is parked right in a direct line to the bay in the shed where I park my daily driver. The same bay is the one where I park vehicles that I am going to work on. It has not been an uncommon event where a replacement part unexpectedly needs to be ordered from overseas. In the meantime the vehicle sits snug inside my shed, while my daily driver gets parked outside in all types of weather. This is not an ideal sort of situation.

So yesterday, when the current offending vehicle dropped either its clutch master cylinder or its clutch slave cylinder it got me thinking. Wouldn't it be good if I could just hook up a winch and press a button and be able to steer the vehicle into the shed to be worked on. If things go astray and more parts are needed - to be able to ... hook up a winch and press a button and be able pull the vehicle outside of the shed and then park my daily drive inside the shed so it is outside of the weather.

Possible Layout
I do not want to hook up to any of the shed wall frames and place strain on them. Instead, one I-Beam will be located outside of the shed and be positioned very close to the edge of the shed's concrete slab. A small hole cut into the metal cladding and something like a sling located under the bottom shelf of some pallet racking. This sling will be the hitching point for one end of the winch. As mentioned previously, the other I-beam will be located in a garden. This herbaceously located I-Beam will allow the vehicle to be towed well out of the way so that there is unimpeded access to the shed.

So, given the previously provided information - where to from here?


What sort of winch, or possibly two winches would I need?

What sort of capacity would the winch need to have?

What type of material winch cable would be best?



Oh, one last limitation - it would be a system where no cables are left laying across the ground after the vehicle has been repositioned.

A quick look online found a 12000 pounds or 5443.10844 kg capacity winch from Kings for a four wheel drive that is on sale and has a $200 Australian dollar discount! However, I do not know if this winch has adequate capacity to move the dead weight of a 30 CWT Chevrolet/Holdens General Service truck? So, I do not want to swoop on the deal and get left with something not capable of doing the intended job.

Would the 12000 pounds 5443.10844 kg winch be capable of the job or is it too under-capacity. If it is not up for the job - what capacity should I be looking for?

One good thing is that the length of cable shown in the advertisement for the winch was identified as 26 metres of synthetic rope. One question answered!

I just remembered a scene in the movie The Gods Must be Crazy where the driver gets distracted while winching a little short wheel base Series 1 Land Rover. The next thing the Land Rover is off the ground and moving up in the air to the tree branch the winch was hooked up to! ... Just found it on YouTube accessed 28th of May 2023 from,Land Rover Stuck In The Tree Scene From The Gods Must Be Crazy - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RXV-p_Ec6Q)


Hopefully, I have included enough information for more winch-learned people to work off. If you need more information please let me know. I greatly appreciate the opportunity to access your insight. The door for constructive suggestions is now opened!

Kind regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

Some more digging:
the Curb weight of a Land Rover 110 is: 2195 kg. Accessed 28th May 2023 from, https://www.auto123.com/en/new-cars/technical-specs/land-rover/defender/1993/base/110

The Curb weight of a 1940 Chevrolet/Holdens truck is 4640 lbs Accessed 28th May 2023 from, 1940 Chevrolet Specifications (http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/chevyresto/4013.htm). I do want to tow these vehicles into the shed not lift them up off the ground.
Kind regards
Lionel

[Slunnie]

A normal 4WD winch will pull any of those. 9000lb is the go to winch rating to pull heavy 4WD's out of a bog hole, they will roll along the ground far easier than that. a 9000lb winch will still pull about 2 - 2.5T with a drum full of cable.

Have you considered just using a concrete anchor point that you can either winch off or run a snatch block through?

https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-dv4878o44a/images/stencil/500x659/products/9596/17326/fa5db531-9e8c-4cc3-a104-5668d73c4cce__25942.1664756128.jpg?c=1

3M PROTECTA PRO Concrete D-ring Anchorage Plate (AJ720A) - SafetyCulture Marketplace (https://marketplace.safetyculture.com/3m-protecta-pro-concrete-d-ring-anchorage-plate-aj720a)

[Hogarthde]

My suggestion Lionel is to use your tractor, make up a stiff bar ( V8Ian would have a couple under the seat of the Western Star, just surreptitiously borrow one).

Weld a clevis on the front of the tractor , a bracket to fit over various bumper bars or on spring hangers,or tow bars and pull or push as you wish.

You can use the tractor drawbar or 3pl bar , might be easier but means looking backwards.

dave

[oka374]

We just mounted a pintle hook in the centre of the top edge of the tractor bucket, the bar used is about 3m long and has a towball fitting on one end and a pintle ring on the other, pintle end onto hook on tractor bucket and towball onto the vehicle. As the bar is in front of the tractor you can see what you are doing and it's easily manouverable.
If the vehicle being towed doesn't have a towbar and ball on the back just use a soft shackle or short chain to hook it to the bar.
We've even used a rideon mower to move a car the same way.

[V8Ian]

My suggestion Lionel is to use your tractor, make up a stiff bar ( V8Ian would have a couple under the seat of the Western Star, just surreptitiously borrow one).

Weld a clevis on the front of the tractor , a bracket to fit over various bumper bars or on spring hangers,or tow bars and pull or push as you wish.

You can use the tractor drawbar or 3pl bar , might be easier but means looking backwards.

dave


We just mounted a pintle hook in the centre of the top edge of the tractor bucket, the bar used is about 3m long and has a towball fitting on one end and a pintle ring on the other, pintle end onto hook on tractor bucket and towball onto the vehicle. As the bar is in front of the tractor you can see what you are doing and it's easily manouverable.
If the vehicle being towed doesn't have a towbar and ball on the back just use a soft shackle or short chain to hook it to the bar.
We've even used a rideon mower to move a car the same way.
Makes the winch idea look overly complicated, Lionel.

[Lionelgee]

Hello Slunnie, oka374, & Dave

Thank you for the information about the masonry hook, and different options of using tractors.

I have used a tractor to shift vehicles for the almost 15 years, since the shed was built. Using a tractor is my least preferred option which I have reluctantly used multiple times. The vehicle can be towed only so far into the shed and then it needs to be pushed the rest of the way into the shed. I normally do the manoeuvring by myself. Taking the tractor so far and then getting off to readjust the steering on the vehicle ... get back on the tractor .... rinse and repeat. Somehow - possibly due to tiredness bringing on inattentiveness, the vehicle ends up with some minor damage being done to it during the final push stage.

Electric winch - remote control of the winch while I am sitting in the vehicle steering it. Not having to get repeatedly on and off a tractor then back into the vehicle being moved to adjust the steering.

Slunnie kindly mentioned a suggested capacity. Thank you oka374, & Dave for the tractor options. I have unfortunately been there done that with a tractor while fully knowing even then, that there must be a better way. It is time for the 'better way' - a winch with a remote control. I am just after information about what capacity the winch would be best fill my requirements.


Kind regards
Lionel

[JDNSW]

How much of an issue it is depends mainly on how flat and smooth the ground is. Last time I did this, about six months ago, I used a small hand puller, with an extension chain as needed, to pull the 2a into the shed after the starter quit and the carby was playing up, making hand starting problematic. Only issue was that I used a set of steel shelves loaded with bolts and nuts etc as an anchor - and they moved about six inches. I have yet to figure out a way of getting them back in place without taking everything off them!

But if you have an anchor, and the ground is level, it does not take much to move a Landrover or similar vehicle. I actually moved it a few tens of metres this way, including doing a 180, using various trees and fence posts as anchors.

[Hogarthde]

Righto Lionel, point taken about the tractor .

That winch would have the capacity , and if you are using a couple of snatch blocks then the effort is easier, and the dyneema is good too.

[POD]

My thought upon reading this was also that you just need a rigid towing bar, I made one decades ago to bring a dead toyota home from the bush and it has been very useful for just this sort of thing- but you do need two people and a second vehicle so I can see why you aren't happy with this solution.
Any 4wd winch will be sufficient for your job unless you have a very steep approach to the shed; usually in use they are pulling a vehicle that is either heavily bogged or on steep terrain. A used 8000lb winch is probably cheap to acquire these days as all the cool kids want bigger numbers. Also as mentioned above, an anchor point affixed to your slab with masonry anchors will easily suffice; I have moved my metal lathe around in my shed by winching off the base of the shed columns- the lathe weighs around 2 tonnes and was sliding on a sheet of plywood- far more lateral load than a vehicle on wheels!
How will you power the winch?

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

After some discussions with a colleague who was formerly a boiler maker in the mines, I have progressed further along the path for the proposed project.

I had initially thought of having the steel anchor point at a height where it would be easily seen and not tripped over. However, my colleague raised concerns about how something out of the ground can act like a lever that multiplies the stress that could be placed at the point the steel leaves the ground. The longer the 'lever' the more stress on the part of the anchor point located above the ground.

So bearing this in mind I reverted to my trade as a landscaper. This experience included installing in-ground irrigation systems. I remembered things like in-ground valve boxes similar to the one shown in the photograph. Since a bobcat is going to be digging the holes it can go a bit deeper and have the anchor point coupling below the valve box's lid. The lid can be flush mounted to the ground level. The result is no trip hazards and things like the mower and other light vehicles can be driven over it.

Since Kings has their 12000 pound winch on sale - reduced by $200, I bought one. I did follow some contributor's advice and I checked on Marketplace for the range of second-hand winches. Some units were dearer than the Kings' winch and they would not come with a warranty. Other second-hand winches needed repairs and new replacement parts. Or they did not have the same capacity.

I will be making a unit where the winch fits on a trailer receiver that can be slotted into the towbar at the back of a vehicle. Also, with the aid of a 1300 mm x 50 mm x 50 mm square hollow section with a 5 mm wall thickness I will be converting my old Jeep Commander tow bar so it can bolt into the front of the currently front bumper-bar-less Defender; while having brackets mounted for my range of other vehicles.

Just have to go to the local scrap yard for the steel anchor point and arrange for the bobcat bloke to bring his toys with him. Also, a mini-mix concrete truck. Plus a trip to the hardware store for two valve boxes. Then everything should come together!

Lionel wants to winch the Defender into the shed. Hook up winch unit. Sit in Snowy's cab ... press a button and steer. At the end of the day after working on the whatever project vehicle. Swap the winch unit to the back and press a button and steer and the vehicle until it is parked for the night. Then the daily driver can resume residence in the shed. [bigsmile1]

Thank you every one for your contributions. I will keep you updated when the ground work kicks off.

Kind regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Hello Slunnie,

In case you were wondering about the masonry securing hook and why I did not take up the option. The anchor point located in close proximity to the back of the shed will double as an anchor point for removing things such as inoperable cars or loads without wheels from my trailer. I used to use a large fence post as the anchor point in the middle of a paddock. However, it got to be in the road and it was removed. The in-ground anchor point will return that bit of lost flexibility I used to have for removing awkward loads.

Thank you for the information about the suggested winch load capacity.

Kind regards
Lionel

[Xtreme]

Something you will need to consider, especially if using all or most of the cable, is how it is laying on the winch drum. You'll need to ensure that it doesn't bunch up too much on one side & result in damaging the winch.
If your anchor points are located centrally to your line of pull then you should be able to lay the cable evenly by steering slightly from side to side & thereby avoiding it bunching on one side.

[Lionelgee]

Something you will need to consider, especially if using all or most of the cable, is how it is laying on the winch drum. You'll need to ensure that it doesn't bunch up too much on one side & result in damaging the winch.
If your anchor points are located centrally to your line of pull then you should be able to lay the cable evenly by steering slightly from side to side & thereby avoiding it bunching on one side.

Hello Xtreme,

Thank you for posting the gem of information about laying the cable on the winch drum. I have not used vehicle mounted winches before.

Kind regards
Lionel

[Slunnie]

Hello Slunnie,

In case you were wondering about the masonry securing hook and why I did not take up the option. The anchor point located in close proximity to the back of the shed will double as an anchor point for removing things such as inoperable cars or loads without wheels from my trailer. I used to use a large fence post as the anchor point in the middle of a paddock. However, it got to be in the road and it was removed. The in-ground anchor point will return that bit of lost flexibility I used to have for removing awkward loads.

Thank you for the information about the suggested winch load capacity.

Kind regards
Lionel
I hadn't thought that, it just sounded like you had a plan in your head that would work best for you. You've obviously put a lot of thought and research into it, have experiences and discussed it widely when developing a solution.

[Lionelgee]

I hadn't thought that, it just sounded like you had a plan in your head that would work best for you. You've obviously put a lot of thought and research into it, have experiences and discussed it widely when developing a solution.

G'day Slunnie,

Thank you. It was more of a germ of an idea that I lacked some essential information about. Consult with various brain trusts and a boilermaker into hot rods. Relate things back to experience and go 'Doh!' 'In-ground valve boxes - Lionel - how many of them have you installed ... lots!' Plus, the good old internet to read independent reviews and search the availability of suitable second-hand options.

Some pieces start to fit and it all begins to come together. Fingers crossed the in-theory model crosses over successfully into reality. It will be a couple of weeks to have everything up and operational. That cross-over from paper to reality can be a really cruel head and arse kicker!

Kind regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Makes the winch idea look overly complicated, Lionel.

G'day Ian,

I did not study and successfully complete a PhD because I automatically switch to 'simple'. Even if it is a very rare type of PhD; a practical-based 'tool' that can be used in everyday life. [wink11]

In my defence though - one of the people I consulted is an internationally renown military vehicle restorer and his feedback was, "Your idea of a remote controlled electric winch just makes so much sense. One of those 'why didn't I think of it' - ones?"

Anyway, as per an extract of Rudyard Kipling ...

I keep six honest serving-men
(They taught me all I knew);
Their names are What and Why and When And How
And Where and Who.
I send them over land and sea,
I send them east and west;
But after they have worked for me,
I give them all a rest.

Then onto a description of a person that Kipling knew who ...

keeps ten million serving-men,
Who get no rest at all! ....


An extract from The Elephant's Child Accessed 29th May 2023 from, I Keep Six Honest Serving Men – The Kipling Society (https://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poem/poems_serving.htm).

It is just the way I am wired!

Kind regards
Dr. Lionel

[V8Ian]

I'm more a Banjo fellow myself, Lionel. Henry, if I'm feeling more sombre.

Twas Mulga Bill, from Eaglehawk, that caught the cycling craze;
He turned away the good old horse that served him many days;
He dressed himself in cycling clothes, resplendent to be seen;
He hurried off to town and bought a shining new machine;
And as he wheeled it through the door, with air of lordly pride,
The grinning shop assistant said, "Excuse me, can you ride?"

[biggrin]

[Lionelgee]

I'm more a Banjo fellow myself, Lionel. Henry, if I'm feeling more sombre.

Twas Mulga Bill, from Eaglehawk, that caught the cycling craze;
He turned away the good old horse that served him many days;
He dressed himself in cycling clothes, resplendent to be seen;
He hurried off to town and bought a shining new machine;
And as he wheeled it through the door, with air of lordly pride,
The grinning shop assistant said, "Excuse me, can you ride?"

[biggrin]

G'day Ian,

One, Henry Clarence Kendall (N.A.P.) must be up there on your list too Ian. 'Native Australian Poet' - as in, born in Australia.

Kind regards
Lionel

[Xtreme]

I've had snippets of somewhat 'modified' bits of Banjo (written by various trip participants) as parts of some of my Victorian High Country trip reports............

There was movement at the station for the word had passed around
That Roger’s four-wheel drivers were at play
And were seeking wild bush courses as they left old Merrijig town,
Fred & Ros were Tail-End-Charlie for the day
.
.
.
.

Through stringy barks and saplings, on the rough and broken ground
Down the hillside at a careful pace, Roger led
Ros & Fred were right behind us when we turned our heads for home,
Eager for good company, good food and our bed

With apologies to Banjo.

And back to the thread topic.

[DoubleChevron]

I kept an eye on facebook marketplace for months... I was looking for something like a cheap ALDI winch or higher capacity winch of some sort. This of all things popped up one day really cheaply.

https://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/index.php?attachments/winch2-jpg.138960/


https://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/index.php?attachments/winch1-jpg.138959/



So what I did was weld a plate ontop of a towbar hitch receiver, then bolt this winch to it.. So I fitted a trailer hitch to the front of my car trailer, and this gets fitted to the trailer whenever I need to drag cars on (massive overkill, but man talk about easily dragging on cars) To move cars around, you just hook it into any cars towbar receiver.

When I get to it, I will dynabolt a towbar hitch to the shed floor (or frame) somehow, so this winch can be slid into easily.

I know your pain ....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk5v6Hx9P14&t=521s

just for ****s and giggles I videos how damn difficult it is to get a car into the shed recently.

seeya,
Shane L.

[Lionelgee]

Hello Shane,

Thank you for posting the clip of the Jarrett winch and your efforts to get the Citroen into the shed. I bet you are looking forward to when you have done the work to be able to use the Jarrett winch to pull vehicles off the trailer!

Kind regards
Lionel

[DoubleChevron]

Hello Shane,

Thank you for posting the clip of the Jarrett winch and your efforts to get the Citroen into the shed. Instead of using a ratchet strap to pull the car off the trailer, could you chock the car and then reposition the Jarrett winch to use it instead? While you are doing all the work at the front of the car the Jarrett winch is visible just sitting there idle in the background.

Kind regards
Lionel

If I had a snatch block I could have just used the winch mounted to the trailer .... hmmmmm.... I must get one some day! Good point.

BTW:

It was easier to get back out of the shed (though its back in now getting the mechanicals torn out of it).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYf9KJTccQg&t=6s

[Lionelgee]

If I had a snatch block I could have just used the winch mounted to the trailer .... hmmmmm.... I must get one some day! Good point..

Sorry, Shane I watched the video through and then revisited your post and I edited my earlier post, then saved over it. So my original reply that you quoted is now different. I did this because I had noticed your earlier comment about using the dynabolts to make an anchor point on the floor.

Yes, I was running it through my mind while I was watching the video whether you had enough cable on the Jarrett winch to be able hook up a snatch block. The only downside with relocating the Jarrett is the loss of control if the vehicle being pulled off the trailer is facing downhill. I suppose you could hook up a ratchet strap with sufficient slack so it could capture the vehicle at a designated point. Then progress from there and then adjust free travel until the next safety checkpoint. I am not sure if the Jarrett winch has a pawl that can be flipped over to stop the winch from spooling out? If the Jarrett does have a locking pawl then you might not need the 'arrestor' ratchet strap.

Kind regards
Lionel

[DoubleChevron]

.

Sorry, Shane I watched the video through and then revisited your post and I edited my earlier post, then saved over it. So my original reply that you quoted is now different. I did this because I had noticed your earlier comment about using the dynabolts to make an anchor point on the floor.

Yes, I was running it through my mind while I was watching the video whether you had enough cable on the Jarrett winch to be able hook up a snatch block. The only downside with relocating the Jarrett is the loss of control if the vehicle being pulled off the trailer is facing downhill. I suppose you could hook up a ratchet strap with sufficient slack so it could capture the vehicle at a designated point. Then progress from there and then adjust free travel until the next safety checkpoint. I am not sure if the Jarrett winch has a pawl that can be flipped over to stop the winch from spooling out? If the Jarrett does have a locking pawl then you might not need the 'arrestor' ratchet strap.

Kind regards
Lionel

its a rated winch for lifting, so it has a clutch. it will only wind out if you turn the handle (I wire the pawl up to pull the rope out ... or it takes forever). It makes lowering cars off the trailer very safe. I just use a rope to lower the car if I'm overly concerned though (faster), you just wrap it around the front trailer crossmember a couple of times and you can easily feed the rope out or stop it :)

I don't tow a lot or move cars a huge amount, I'm just someone that tinkers (not a mechanic). So I haven't set stuff up to work on a daily basis :)

Now I'm thiking its not even as easy as dynabolting it to the floor. You need the height and clearance to turn the winch handle. i'm in the process of extending the shed, so may concrete in posts to pull cars in ? ( or just add extra doors at the back so you can pull cars through without trapping what tows it inside the shed).

[Lionelgee]

its a rated winch for lifting, so it has a clutch. it will only wind out if you turn the handle (I wire the pawl up to pull the rope out ... or it takes forever). It makes lowering cars off the trailer very safe. I just use a rope to lower the car if I'm overly concerned though (faster), you just wrap it around the front trailer crossmember a couple of times and you can easily feed the rope out or stop it :)

I don't tow a lot or move cars a huge amount, I'm just someone that tinkers (not a mechanic). So I haven't set stuff up to work on a daily basis :)

Now I'm thiking its not even as easy as dynabolting it to the floor. You need the height and clearance to turn the winch handle. i'm in the process of extending the shed, so may concrete in posts to pull cars in ? ( or just add extra doors at the back so you can pull cars through without trapping what tows it inside the shed).

Hello Shane,

Yes, taking a bullet for the initial additional cost of an extra roller door to have a drive through option is more expensive than just having one wall covered with metal cladding. However, it will pay dividends over the years and avoid a lot of frustration! Plus save the odd utterances of - "I should have done that" in the future.

Kind regards
Lionel

[Hogarthde]

Lionel , a winch is basically just a starting motor, so for every 40 seconds of work, rest for 40 secs.
The winch will work both directions viz power in , power out. So with this in mind ,take all the dyneema off the drum, probably a set screw clasping the end, then lay out the 20 metres of dyneema on the lawn , then wrap 4 turns around the drum leaving 9 metres laid out to your left and 9 metres laid out to your right.

Attach some weight to both ends, eg, spare truck wheels , drive some star pickets into the lawn to secure the winch ,connect the battery and press some buttons .
“For illustration only “

Now with snatch block on a post way out in front of the shed, and another at the back wall of the shed and with winch secured to truck and one end of dyneema through one block and back to front of truck, ....and the other end around block at back of shed and fixed to back of truck you could winch forward and back .

You must keep the dyneema tight , so big turnbuckles on blocks. It does mean you will have to splice , as a lot of rope needed , and a big battery unless you convert the shed 240 to 12 to power the winch.

i know you have 240 ,because I can see the lights from here

[Lionelgee]

Lionel , a winch is basically just a starting motor, so for every 40 seconds of work, rest for 40 secs.
The winch will work both directions viz power in , power out. So with this in mind ,take all the dyneema off the drum, probably a set screw clasping the end, then lay out the 20 metres of dyneema on the lawn , then wrap 4 turns around the drum leaving 9 metres laid out to your left and 9 metres laid out to your right.

Attach some weight to both ends, eg, spare truck wheels , drive some star pickets into the lawn to secure the winch ,connect the battery and press some buttons .
“For illustration only “

Now with snatch block on a post way out in front of the shed, and another at the back wall of the shed and with winch secured to truck and one end of dyneema through one block and back to front of truck, ....and the other end around block at back of shed and fixed to back of truck you could winch forward and back .

You must keep the dyneema tight , so big turnbuckles on blocks. It does mean you will have to splice , as a lot of rope needed , and a big battery unless you convert the shed 240 to 12 to power the winch.

i know you have 240 ,because I can see the lights from here

Hello Hogarthde,

Thank you for posting such a detailed outline. Please correct me if I am wrong. From what you describe the method adapts the winch and the dyneema to have the same operation as an endless chain inside a chain block. Instead of the chain running continuously through the block while another chain lifts or lowers the load on a chain block - the dyneema cable is attached between the turn-buckles located at each end's anchor point. Where the warps around the winch drum and the winch controller provide the forward and reverse movement. In this case the crux of the operation is that the load is shifted by rotating the now endless dyeema cable through the winch.

Hopefully, that is a clear explanation and I am on the right track?

I could sit down and investigate the different range of options of using a range of winches, turn buckles, multiple pulley blocks and the differences in mechanical advantage all day. It is just such a fascinating area. I used to apply it in practice for situations when I was working in tree surgery where I had to drop branches from trees that were overhanging immovable objects, such as people's houses. Or I would need to reverse the natural fall of a very large branch or a tree once it was cut; so as not to damage said immovable objects. For some strange reason there is an ilk of people who make very loud objections if someone drops a tree on their house!

Kind regards
Lionel

[DoubleChevron]

So we think moving rolling cars around is fun ( especially something with hydraulic suspension ... .124" wheelbase and 5mm of ground clearance ... and no brakes).

Someone Gave me the Worlds Quickest 4 Door Car! BUT it is Very... VERY Broken! - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ebj8utEOCoA&pp=ygUTcXVlc3Rpb25hYmxlIGdhcmFnZQ%3D%3D)

who would have thought a modern passenger car would be so difficult to move :o

[DoubleChevron]

Lionel , a winch is basically just a starting motor, so for every 40 seconds of work, rest for 40 secs.
The winch will work both directions viz power in , power out. So with this in mind ,take all the dyneema off the drum, probably a set screw clasping the end, then lay out the 20 metres of dyneema on the lawn , then wrap 4 turns around the drum leaving 9 metres laid out to your left and 9 metres laid out to your right.

Attach some weight to both ends, eg, spare truck wheels , drive some star pickets into the lawn to secure the winch ,connect the battery and press some buttons .
“For illustration only “

Now with snatch block on a post way out in front of the shed, and another at the back wall of the shed and with winch secured to truck and one end of dyneema through one block and back to front of truck, ....and the other end around block at back of shed and fixed to back of truck you could winch forward and back .

You must keep the dyneema tight , so big turnbuckles on blocks. It does mean you will have to splice , as a lot of rope needed , and a big battery unless you convert the shed 240 to 12 to power the winch.

i know you have 240 ,because I can see the lights from here

This is what I was initially trying to do. Get a cheap winch (eg: aldi winch) ... 12000pounds is HUGE for moving something that isn't bogged. My idea was making the winch hitch receiver mounted. That way anywhere you can move a car to ... you have a winching point to pull from. This would have been really simple in the days of framed sheds. Now we have sheds made of tinfoil ( 1.8mm C purlins) ... You wouldn't winch from these as you will crush them. If you can get behind your shed (easy if your on acerage, impossible in a residintial block). You could make a cable sized hole in the sheds back wall.... park your car behind the shed and "winch" the car through the back wall of the shed. This is possibly another option for me (I just checked. the manual winch here has 20meters of cable).

seeya
Shane L.

[Lionelgee]

This is what I was initially trying to do. Get a cheap winch (eg: aldi winch) ... 12000pounds is HUGE for moving something that isn't bogged. My idea was making the winch hitch receiver mounted. That way anywhere you can move a car to ... you have a winching point to pull from. This would have been really simple in the days of framed sheds. Now we have sheds made of tinfoil ( 1.8mm C purlins) ... You wouldn't winch from these as you will crush them. If you can get behind your shed (easy if your on acerage, impossible in a residintial block). You could make a cable sized hole in the sheds back wall.... park your car behind the shed and "winch" the car through the back wall of the shed. This is possibly another option for me (I just checked. the manual winch here has 20meters of cable).

seeya
Shane L.

Hello Shane,

Yes - a receiver mounted winch is the way to go. My winch from Kings arrived this afternoon :0) Pretty good service! The C purlins do not inspire confidence do they.

I will be making a wee hole in the back metal cladding wall for the winch cabling to go through. Then rig up a sliding panel that has the outline of the cable or strap cut into it. This will make a snug fit that might keep the rodents from having an access point into the shed. I am on acreage so I do have the option of making a drive through rear roller door at one stage. Nothing has been planted at the back of the shed or water tanks located there to keep my options open. The other anchor point will be in the garden across from the weeds ... lawn located between the front of the shed and the garden close to the house. Since the proposed winch points are just below ground level I may need to make a winch fairlead that gets the winch cable up off the ground - or a turn-buckle - snatch-block - whatever your preferred term is.
I
Kind regards
Lionel

[V8Ian]

Hello Shane,

Yes - a receiver mounted winch is the way to go. My winch from Kings arrived this afternoon :0) Pretty good service! The C purlins do not inspire confidence do they.

I will be making a wee hole in the back metal cladding wall for the winch cabling to go through. Then rig up a sliding panel that has the outline of the cable or strap cut into it. This will make a snug fit that might keep the rodents from having an access point into the shed. I am on acreage so I do have the option of making a drive through rear roller door at one stage. Nothing has been planted at the back of the shed or water tanks located there to keep my options open. The other anchor point will be in the garden across from the weeds ... lawn located between the front of the shed and the garden close to the house. Since the proposed winch points are just below ground level I may need to make a winch fairlead that gets the winch cable up off the ground - or a turn-buckle - snatch-block - whatever your preferred term is.
I
Kind regards
Lionel
Lionel, I don't mean to teach you to suck eggs, but these terms are not interchangeable.

A turn buckle is used to maintain tension on a chain or cable, such as securing heavy machinery to a truck, or preventing a gate from sagging etc., etc.. They come in many sizes.
185587

Snatch blocks change direction of pull or relief of a rope. These also are available in various sizes and ratings.
185588

Hopefully this snippet will save you aquiring the wrong gear, particularly if buying online.

[W&KO]

Lionel, I don't mean to teach you to suck eggs, but these terms are not interchangeable.

A turn buckle is used to maintain tension on a chain or cable, such as securing heavy machinery to a truck, or preventing a gate from sagging etc., etc.. They come in many sizes.
185587

Snatch blocks change direction of pull or relief of a rope. These also are available in various sizes and ratings.
185588

Hopefully this snippet will save you aquiring the wrong gear, particularly if buying online.

What does relief of a rope mean when using a snatch block??

I understand change of direction and mechanical advantage…

[DoubleChevron]

Hello Shane,

Yes - a receiver mounted winch is the way to go. My winch from Kings arrived this afternoon :0) Pretty good service! The C purlins do not inspire confidence do they.

I will be making a wee hole in the back metal cladding wall for the winch cabling to go through. Then rig up a sliding panel that has the outline of the cable or strap cut into it. This will make a snug fit that might keep the rodents from having an access point into the shed. I am on acreage so I do have the option of making a drive through rear roller door at one stage. Nothing has been planted at the back of the shed or water tanks located there to keep my options open. The other anchor point will be in the garden across from the weeds ... lawn located between the front of the shed and the garden close to the house. Since the proposed winch points are just below ground level I may need to make a winch fairlead that gets the winch cable up off the ground - or a turn-buckle - snatch-block - whatever your preferred term is.
I
Kind regards
Lionel

That will be better than a manual winch, as if your winching from outside the shed through a hole, its "blind". If you do this with an electric winch, you can control the car being towed from inside the car with the winch remote ( way better than a manual remote). Just just also need batteries and controllers.

Whatever is easiest for you .... go for it! I hate anything that requires me to buy more batteries.

[Lionelgee]

Lionel, I don't mean to teach you to suck eggs, but these terms are not interchangeable.

A turn buckle is used to maintain tension on a chain or cable, such as securing heavy machinery to a truck, or preventing a gate from sagging etc., etc.. They come in many sizes.
185587

Snatch blocks change direction of pull or relief of a rope. These also are available in various sizes and ratings.
185588

Hopefully this snippet will save you aquiring the wrong gear, particularly if buying online.



Hello Ian,

The context of the use of turnbuckles was first used in relation to ropes and keeping them taunt between blocks. Therefore, I reckon that the term was used correctly by the first contributor. I made the mistake - during a surreptitious visit to the forum during my work hours - to take a very quick look at their post. I subsequently misinterpreted the context of their use of the term turnbuckle. Right term - correct context - my misinterpretation of how the context was intended. There must be a moral to this story somewhere!

Kind regards
Lionel

[V8Ian]

What does relief of a rope mean when using a snatch block??

I understand change of direction and mechanical advantage…
Paying out, i.e. lowering a weight. The right words wouldn't come to me, at the time of writing. EOD [bigwhistle]

[W&KO]

Paying out, i.e. lowering a weight. The right words wouldn't come to me, at the time of writing. EOD [bigwhistle]

Cools, makes sense now…

[Lionelgee]

Hello Hogarthde,

I meant to write in an earlier reply a thank you for the information about the 40 seconds on and 40 seconds rest for the winch. It is new knowledge to me - so thank you very much for sharing your insight.

Show Day public holiday here tomorrow - so no scrap metal or metal retailers will be open. So - no anchor points. I took some accumulated hours at work. So I have Friday off as wells - which will make it a 4 day long-weekend!

Kind regards
Lionel

[DoubleChevron]

Well last weekend I spent quite a bit of time getting the id19 into the shed (after hosing a couple of years dust off it ....). Anyway, boss women has been, er, "vocal" for a couple of years now about the windscreen washers not working in her car..... You guessed it ... I realised the bumper has to come off to get to its pump.... ie: I need to get under it ... sigh. And I just spent ages getting the car onto the hoist ... that I now need(using a ratchet strap pull it iin a few cms at a time). Then I realised I also hadn't pressure washed under the bonnet, so it needs to come out again either way.


So rather than doing anything useful this afternoon.....


https://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/index.php?attachments/20230624_165325-jpg.223529/




https://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/index.php?attachments/20230624_165333-jpg.223528/




https://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/index.php?attachments/20230624_165356-jpg.223527/


This is every bit of scrap metal I could find... That is why it all different lengths and odd sizes.






















https://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/index.php?attachments/20230624_165721-jpg.223526/


https://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/index.php?attachments/20230624_165745-jpg.223525/


https://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/index.php?attachments/20230624_165812-jpg.223524/




Is only all the lightweight bits of junk metal I had left, so its not super strong. But its only pulling a car that should easily roll (not a bogged car). I just lift the hoist by a few centimetres, slide the frame under .... drop the hoist back on top to hold it in place. Then slide the winch into the hitch receiver.


this should make life a lot easier https://www.aulro.com/afvb/image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP/yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7 Getting a car out of the shed is easy.... just drag it with the ****box or tractor.... but you can't drag them "into" the shed!