Census Night

[Yabbie]

I wonder how many Jedi knights, Ronald Macdonalds and Billy Hunts will be listed on this years Census.

I can't see just how this Country is a democracy when you are forced to Vote, Complete Census forms etc....
Fall short of lining up for Toilet paper, when Canberra says jump everyone has to or risk being fined.

Why do we comply with laws that clearly clash with the basis of a democratic society? Fear of reprisal perhaps?

Wonder if the guy who bashed on the door at 8am on a Sunday to deliver the Census form will be silly enough to come back after the response he got last time. :twisted:
Lets just say he got worse then what the Mormans did last time they knocked on the door, Early on a Sunday morning.

Looking forward to seeing him again :bat: :bat: :whistling:

[dobbo]

The mormans must have prayed for your soul Yabbie, go figure your rude to the census guy then end up in hospital

Kharma or what

What are you doing up this early anyway?

[JDNSW]

Well, so far I have not seen a collector or got a form despite four phone calls. I suspect that they can't find me. Hope the collector is in a four wheel drive though!
John

[DirtyDawg]

I wonder how many Jedi knights, Ronald Macdonalds and Billy Hunts will be listed on this years Census.

I can't see just how this Country is a democracy when you are forced to Vote, Complete Census forms etc....
Fall short of lining up for Toilet paper, when Canberra says jump everyone has to or risk being fined.

Why do we comply with laws that clearly clash with the basis of a democratic society? Fear of reprisal perhaps?

Wonder if the guy who bashed on the door at 8am on a Sunday to deliver the Census form will be silly enough to come back after the response he got last time. :twisted:
Lets just say he got worse then what the Mormans did last time they knocked on the door, Early on a Sunday morning.

Looking forward to seeing him again :bat: :bat: :whistling:
Yabbie put down your *DEAD*

I put John and jill smith and anything to do with finances I put "Up Yours" and where it said sign here I put "not signing as I believe we are a democratic free society and will not sponsor Govt Identity Theft."

[FenianEel]

I lived with a bloke at Uni, who was just hilarious.
When the Jehovah's would come, he'd kit off and answer the door starkers. :eek:

He did it twice and they never came back a third, poor buggers - Try that!!

My old man was a Census collector in the 80's once. One time, he knocked on the door (rural area of Sunshine Coast) - a guy bolted out of the house and into the forest - completely starkers. We later found out it was his home, he lived alone - just a complete nutjob:D

[Grizzly_Adams]

*shrug* I don't see a problem with it.

Ok it's a pain that in our society we are forced to do some things (such as voting), however when it comes to census that is valuable information that the gov. needs to collect in order to improve services.:cool: Ok that sounds like gov. fed tripe, but I can still see there being a use for such information - ok it can be abused as well, but what can't be abused? Do we not give out anything for risk of it being abused? If we did that then we would never speak to anyone, or poke our little heads out of our houses :confused:


Also whilst it may not assist us it may definately assist people in 100 years time - who here has tried doing their geneology and jumped for joy at the information found in the census' taken in the early 20th century?:D


... having said that, I would not deign to call our society a democracy - calling it a democracy makes a mockery of the word. :angel:

[BigJon]

Oops, I knew there was something I was supposed to do last night... Tonight will have to do.

[Phoenix]

Mmmm, 8am is a bit early, my wife is a collector, and i'm pretty sure that they aren't supposed to start that early.

To be honest, it only took us 15 minutes to do the online one, considering the things that they use the information for (such as public transport, public health care etc etc), I can;t see the problem with doing it, but maybe that's just me.

[adm333]

I'm sure its good fodder for the conspiracy theorists out there but I don't see any harm in it.

What information goes into it that they don't already have anyway ?

As long you roughly match up with what you put in your tax return it shouldn't arouse too much suspicion :whistling:

Although for the question on "Where did this person live 5 years ago ?" I was compelled to write "an itch in my pants" for my 4 year old son.

:tease:

[Ace]

Load of crap if you ask me.

[weeds]

look do as your told an do it right otherwise or otherwise johny will make you leave the country:p

you could try living in Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel or Lebanon as i bet they don't have census forms to fill out:p

i filled mine out online, no real hassel with it, hopefully it does good for the country

[jase]

Like John I still don't have one either?
I rang them and they said they'll get me one out ???????
(though if I ignored it i;d somehow get a fine for not completing it)
I can't see how I didn't get one, I'm registered to vote at my address
they said if the collector came and no one was home the collector should have left a card in my mailbox, when I told them I didn't have a mailbox cause the postie don't come out here they said "oh"
They are now going to post one to my PO box ???
J

[Yabbie]

Heard a great joke last night:

Little Johnny Howard's new nickname is Bonsai,
That's what they call Little Bushes don't they :)

[Grizzly_Adams]

:angel: :)

[BMac]

If you dont fill it out accurately, please don't turn around and whinge about Gov't not catering for public needs , where its needed etc etc :eek:


you could try living in Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel or Lebanon as i bet they don't have census forms to fill out I'll bet they don't too.

Census isn't the invention of John Howard, its the invention of good government.

Anyone know who came up with the idea?

Bruce.

[CraigE]

I do not blame the collectors, but do not think you should have to do it if you do not wish. Government only want to spend the money in the citie's anyway.

[Yabbie]

I am not arguing the point of the Idea, I don't see how I should be forced to fill it out.

And as for the it helps to determine services line that we a force fed, I live on the central coast in nsw Population has boomed here over the last 10yrs.
We have an area the size of sydney with 3 public hospitals. Woy Woy, Gosford and Wyong, Woy Woy doesn't have an Emergency dept and funnels most patients through Gosford for any Operations etc. Wyong has a Maternity dept. which spends more time closed then open.
As for public transport well lets not go there.
The roads haven't been repaired or upgraded since they were first put down over 20yrs ago. We don't have enough water etc.. etc.. etc..

But I'll fill out the form......Cause it's how the government knows where to spend my taxes.

[ak]

I threw mine in the bin just lazy. Then read in the paper today $110 fine sh%t. Had to ring them to get another one sent out.

[timberwolf_302]

A friend of mine filled his out in such a way that would probably get him locked up...he claims he is a male/female who was born in 1993 and is 194 years old, with 71 children...and he is a jewish jedi.

He was quite drunk when he filled it out though...and it wasnt even census night. Good for a laugh though.

[George130]

Did mine online. Very quick and easy. The info is usefull but can be annoying to fill in. My collector came twice as we were out the first time and don't have mail boxes. They were quite releived when I told them I would do it online.

[Ralph1Malph]

1. The last cenus indicated that there were over 70000 practicing Jedi :angel: and they predict that followers of the Sith will rate heavily this time.

2. The census is used for macro data, that is large trends over significant time, not for day to day decisions.

3. We also have a crap govt here in vic. My parents say they have a crap govt in QLD. I lived in nsw, still crap.
We will get our say on election day.:twisted:
I play a game with my whinging work colleagues called "didn't vote, don't whinge". Whenever they whinge about something I ask who they voted for. Most say they voted for bracks and his crew and I tell them to live with their decision. One chap says he doesn't vote coz they're all crap. I tell him to shut up he has no right to complain.:mad:

Where were we, thats right, I filled my census in willingly:)

Ralph

[JDNSW]

(snip)
Anyone know who came up with the idea?

Bruce.

Earliest recorded census was in 3800BC in Babylonia - inventor unknown.
The Romans made it a fine art and was carried out regularly. Became a lost art in the Dark Ages, with the Domesday Book in England after the Norman Conquest an isolated example. First modern census is supposed to have been in Quebec from 1665 to 1754. Frederic William I of Prussia seems to have been the first to introduce them as a regular feature of a major country in 1719, with the USA starting in 1790 and Britain and France in 1801.

First census (referred to as a muster) in Australia was 1788. Census's were provided for in the Australian Constitution in 1901, but it took ten years to get organised and the first was in 1911.

John

[PCH]

Filled it out on-line. Was a pain when I was kicked out and had to re-logon and wait 30 mins. Finally got it done and no one to bother me to collect a form.

Chris

[RoverOne]

I am not arguing the point of the Idea, I don't see how I should be forced to fill it out.

And as for the it helps to determine services line that we a force fed, I live on the central coast in nsw Population has boomed here over the last 10yrs.
We have an area the size of sydney with 3 public hospitals. Woy Woy, Gosford and Wyong, Woy Woy doesn't have an Emergency dept and funnels most patients through Gosford for any Operations etc. Wyong has a Maternity dept. which spends more time closed then open.
As for public transport well lets not go there.
The roads haven't been repaired or upgraded since they were first put down over 20yrs ago. We don't have enough water etc.. etc.. etc..

But I'll fill out the form......Cause it's how the government knows where to spend my taxes.

Your forced to do everything your whole life so is a ridiculus comment.

You have to pay tax, you have to have a tax file number, you have to have licence to drive, to own a gun, to get married, to fly, to drive a boat, you have to log in on this website to make comment, you have to use a plane to fly etc etc its unending, to all these things. OK some of these things you are only "forced" to do to participate, but nesseccary.

Your not forced to fill them out you can throw them away like your vote for writing stupid things on the forms,

if you have to do it, do it well & get it out of the way 15 minutes tops no hassles at all.

And its not a load of crap...a pain in the a*rse to do, taking me away from the internet, but had to be done.

Not sure what lousy hospitals has to do with the census, but you could move to somewhere where there is only one hospital like Orange for 40,000 & just hope you don't need it.

Central Coast is nothing like the size of Sydney but I'd have to agree you need more hospitals, you wouldn't though if Sydney siders would stop retiring there. There wouldn't be a country town/city anywhere without infrastructure problems today, we all want/need more.

[Yabbie]

Perhaps there are those that choose to follow and those that don't like the way they have to follow.
I'll admit to falling into the later category.
Maybe I come from a different Generation with different Ideas of governments, Information is Power the more they know the more power they have. I personally like to be in control of my own life.
I don't buy into the whole idea of the government knows best propaganda that they force feed us.
People obviously don't like filling out the forms, the hassle of voting etc.
Which brings me back to....
My question was:
Why do we comply with laws that clearly clash with the basis of a democratic society? Fear of reprisal perhaps?
To live in a true democracy we should be able to have the ability to decide what we wish to do or not to do without fear or conviction.
Surely other people question the powers that be too, I just don't buy in for the usual answers:
Because we are the Government!!
It's Good for you really!!
Bend over this won't hurt a bit!!
It helps society!!



I found this thing again ......:soapbox:

Anyone else want to keep it at their house ??

[Yabbie]

1. The last cenus indicated that there were over 70000 practicing Jedi and they predict that followers of the Sith will rate heavily this time.


Jedi is to A RELIGION!!!!!


George Lucas is a GOD!!! :angel: :twisted:

[dobbo]

Earliest recorded census was in 3800BC in Babylonia - inventor unknown.
The Romans made it a fine art and was carried out regularly. Became a lost art in the Dark Ages, with the Domesday Book in England after the Norman Conquest an isolated example. First modern census is supposed to have been in Quebec from 1665 to 1754. Frederic William I of Prussia seems to have been the first to introduce them as a regular feature of a major country in 1719, with the USA starting in 1790 and Britain and France in 1801.

First census (referred to as a muster) in Australia was 1788. Census's were provided for in the Australian Constitution in 1901, but it took ten years to get organised and the first was in 1911.

John


John I am amazed at what you know about Land Rovers, farming, Census's and everything else in between. I am sorry but I have to ask. What Came first the chicken or the egg?

[dobbo]

Jedi is to A RELIGION!!!!!


George Lucas is a GOD!!! :angel: :twisted:

So with your logic. A god and the lord of Darkness have the same last name?

[RobHay]

*shrug* I don't see a problem with it.

Ok it's a pain that in our society we are forced to do some things (such as voting), however when it comes to census that is valuable information that the gov. needs to collect in order to improve services.:cool: Ok that sounds like gov. fed tripe, but I can still see there being a use for such information - ok it can be abused as well, but what can't be abused? Do we not give out anything for risk of it being abused? If we did that then we would never speak to anyone, or poke our little heads out of our houses :confused:


Also whilst it may not assist us it may definately assist people in 100 years time - who here has tried doing their geneology and jumped for joy at the information found in the census' taken in the early 20th century?:D


... having said that, I would not deign to call our society a democracy - calling it a democracy makes a mockery of the word. :angel:

Well it has certainly assisted us in Queensland, the Government used the info collected in the last lot of census' to accurately gauge how much water was going to be needed in 2006 and have planned accordingly. And I promised not to mention our electricity needs as well.

Personally I don't see how the type of info they were collecting from last nights census is going to assist one iota, not what I expected at all.

But that is just my personal view, which has been vetted and approved by Canberra for publication :)

[RobHay]

Load of crap if you ask me.


Yeah ! What he said. And I forgive you for the prompting prompt, which seems to have taken a short break for to-day, maybe too tired to prompt anymore.:)

[RoverOne]

Perhaps there are those that choose to follow and those that don't like the way they have to follow.
I'll admit to falling into the later category.
Maybe I come from a different Generation with different Ideas of governments, Information is Power the more they know the more power they have. I personally like to be in control of my own life.
I don't buy into the whole idea of the government knows best propaganda that they force feed us.
People obviously don't like filling out the forms, the hassle of voting etc.
Which brings me back to....
My question was:
Why do we comply with laws that clearly clash with the basis of a democratic society? Fear of reprisal perhaps?
To live in a true democracy we should be able to have the ability to decide what we wish to do or not to do without fear or conviction.
Surely other people question the powers that be too, I just don't buy in for the usual answers:
Because we are the Government!!
It's Good for you really!!
Bend over this won't hurt a bit!!
It helps society!!



I found this thing again ......:soapbox:

Anyone else want to keep it at their house ??

I'd say yes to the generation thing...a lot younger I think.

There couldn't be one person that likes filling out forms or wasting time driving down to vote...but if you feel so strongly about it why do you still comply...just don't, you won't be forced to do anything..,even refuse to pay the fine & exercise your democratic vote...its that easy, just fold your arms & let the world go by.

The rest of us just do it cause we have to & lump it :mad:

I do pose this question- how has any census or voting harmed you (you infer by sarcasm that it does harm,
quote: Because we are the Government!!
It's Good for you really!!
Bend over this won't hurt a bit!!
It helps society!!quote)

other than waste your time, what the hell power can the government get from knowing pretty well all the questions anyway. If they collate all their agencies state & federal thay have all this info anyway :eek:

[RobHay]

Your forced to do everything your whole life so is a ridiculus comment.

You have to pay tax, you have to have a tax file number, you have to have licence to drive, to own a gun, to get married, to fly, to drive a boat, you have to log in on this website to make comment, you have to use a plane to fly etc etc its unending, to all these things. OK some of these things you are only "forced" to do to participate, but nesseccary.

Your not forced to fill them out you can throw them away like your vote for writing stupid things on the forms,

if you have to do it, do it well & get it out of the way 15 minutes tops no hassles at all.

And its not a load of crap...a pain in the a*rse to do, taking me away from the internet, but had to be done.

Not sure what lousy hospitals has to do with the census, but you could move to somewhere where there is only one hospital like Orange for 40,000 & just hope you don't need it.

Central Coast is nothing like the size of Sydney but I'd have to agree you need more hospitals, you wouldn't though if Sydney siders would stop retiring there. There wouldn't be a country town/city anywhere without infrastructure problems today, we all want/need more.


Whats this? You have to have a licence to fly? I have never been pulled over, in fact never seen a skycop lurking in the cumulus at all, although they can be tricky little blighters....and I suppose I have to pay for this licence too.....:angel:

[RoverOne]

Whats this? You have to have a licence to fly? I have never been pulled over, in fact never seen a skycop lurking in the cumulus at all, although they can be tricky little blighters....and I suppose I have to pay for this licence too.....:angel:

Sure you do & retest & retest & costs heaps to get there in the first place... a plane anyway, not sure about the lite stuff like hang gliders, ultralites etc.

You can always grow your own & fly for free also ;)

[dobbo]

Perhaps there are those that choose to follow and those that don't like the way they have to follow.
I'll admit to falling into the later category.
Maybe I come from a different Generation with different Ideas of governments, Information is Power the more they know the more power they have. I personally like to be in control of my own life.
I don't buy into the whole idea of the government knows best propaganda that they force feed us.
People obviously don't like filling out the forms, the hassle of voting etc.
Which brings me back to....
My question was:
Why do we comply with laws that clearly clash with the basis of a democratic society? Fear of reprisal perhaps?
To live in a true democracy we should be able to have the ability to decide what we wish to do or not to do without fear or conviction.
Surely other people question the powers that be too, I just don't buy in for the usual answers:
Because we are the Government!!
It's Good for you really!!
Bend over this won't hurt a bit!!
It helps society!!



I found this thing again ......:soapbox:

Anyone else want to keep it at their house ??


Yabbie,

Calm down a bit mate else you'll have a real hearty next. I think you should stop listening to Pink Floyd' The Wall and read a bit. Try "The Lord of the Flies"
Alternatively fill in your bloody form, say your Yoda, C3P0 or even Chewbacca. I don't care and nor should you. Besides they inserted the chip while your at hospital anyway so they know all about you. You might as well comply mate.

[BMac]

Surely other people question the powers that be too

I'm sure every intelligent thinking person questions the motive of the questions, and potential abuse of the information collected.


Why do we comply with laws that clearly clash with the basis of a democratic society?

In this case, there is no point in collecting half the information. And every person who says they are Luke Skywalker, have 100 kids and earn a million dollars a year are corrupting the data and therefore reducing it's value to society (it wasn't cheap to collect either).

Laws and regulations are created/enforced for the good of a democratic society, so we can't pick and choose the laws that suit us as individuals.


And JDNSW, thanks for the info mate. Although it almost put me to sleep reading it :p ( I'm a poor student ) its handy to now where these things came from.


Bruce.

[Phoenix]

Sure you do & retest & retest & costs heaps to get there in the first place... a plane anyway, not sure about the lite stuff like hang gliders, ultralites etc.

You can always grow your own & fly for free also ;)

What was that old quote, don't drink and drive, eat soap, smoke dope and fly home in a bubble :lol2:

You do need liscences for gliders and the ultralights (great fun those), btu they aren't as comprihensive as the PPL because of a few reasons including a lesser ability to handle weather conditions (and as such limiting flying times) and regulations.

[Yabbie]

other than waste your time, what the hell power can the government get from knowing pretty well all the questions anyway. If they collate all their agencies state & federal thay have all this info anyway

Precisly my point why waste more of our tax dollars to collect information that their departments already have.

Look at OZ from a business point of view, Census is a stocktake. What debts do we have and just how much can we make off the stock we do have/ have coming.

Then ask yourself this question if you had the power to use the information to increase your bottom line would you?

They will!!

Otherwise the PM and he's mates wouldn't be able to keep giving themselves pay rises.

As for the Heart Dobbo, I v'e got to have one first in order to have it go on me.:twisted:

[Ace]

I will proably get in trouble but stacey filled mine out online when she did hers. :D

[Outlaw]

John I am amazed at what you know about Land Rovers, farming, Census's and everything else in between. I am sorry but I have to ask. What Came first the chicken or the egg?
http://photos.hotfreelayouts.com/photos/647/came_first.bmp

[dobbo]

By the look on the egg's face it wasn't tandric

[Yabbie]

By the look on the egg's face it wasn't tandric

Did you mean Tantric, Dobbo??:eek:

Surely wasn't Tandoori!!!
They don't look indian:twisted:

[dobbo]

O.k Yabbie you got me on a typo.

I'M SORRY for the typo

[Yabbie]

just Don't Let It Happen Again Or I'll Tell Ron!!!

[JDNSW]

A week after census night and eight phone calls to the ABS I am finally getting a census form. But not delivered - the census collector is going to meet me in town on Thursday. Apparently I am too hard to find. My next door neighbour has located her form as a result of my phone calls - it was left in error at a derelict house on their next door's place halfway from the road, about 3km away, the collector having decided it was the only house in that direction, despite the well used road and the power lines!
I wonder what happens to people who live in really remote areas? Do they get counted? Suggests that this census will underestimate the population of the areas that are only sparsely populated, if my experience is typical.
John

[Yabbie]

Sort of like doing a stocktake and not counting those items that you couldn't reach.. :)

[RobHay]

I dutifully filled mine out on the correct night, and have waited patiently for the collector to do what collectors do. :p

If the mongrel isn't here in the next 2 days I am going to compost it and send it in to them:twisted: :mad:

[JDNSW]

I think the collection is allowed to be up to the 28th - but all forms should have been delivered by the census night!
John

[jase]

don't worry JDNSW I haven't got mine either?
and I'm only 1 hr nth of melbourne and 10kms from town :mad: on a made road (not hiding in the bush)
Its crazy, my house is sitting on top of a hill only 600m from the road, (and its a fairly major road between 2 towns, You can see my house plain as day for 5 kms before you get to it!)
I've given up, like you I've rung and rung they were going to send someone then post to PO box but nothing
I wanted to fill it in but they are hopeless, what a useless thing the census is when I can't even be counted if I want to, I'm assuming the collectors are local (localish?) it can't be that hard?
All my neighbors know where I am if they asked,
How come even Telstra can find me for phone faults (& we've had a few) and their stupid system normally sends someone from melbourne northern suburbs who has absolutely no idea where they are going!

God help you if you were really remote, my brother lives in the alpine region near Briagolong 35 kms form town the last 20kms you drive down 4wd only fire trails! he's got no chance
I'm just glad other people aren't so hopeless at finding me I'd get nothing!
J

[JDNSW]

don't worry JDNSW I haven't got mine either?
and I'm only 1 hr nth of melbourne and 10kms from town :mad: on a made road (not hiding in the bush)
Its crazy, my house is sitting on top of a hill only 600m from the road, (and its a fairly major road between 2 towns, You can see my house plain as day for 5 kms before you get to it!)
I've given up, like you I've rung and rung they were going to send someone then post to PO box but nothing
I wanted to fill it in but they are hopeless, what a useless thing the census is when I can't even be counted if I want to, I'm assuming the collectors are local (localish?) it can't be that hard?
All my neighbors know where I am if they asked,
How come even Telstra can find me for phone faults (& we've had a few) and their stupid system normally sends someone from melbourne northern suburbs who has absolutely no idea where they are going!

God help you if you were really remote, my brother lives in the alpine region near Briagolong 35 kms form town the last 20kms you drive down 4wd only fire trails! he's got no chance
I'm just glad other people aren't so hopeless at finding me I'd get nothing!
J

Your assumption that the collector is local may be a mistake - my collector, now I have finally made contact, comes from nearly seventy kilometres away and has no local knowledge.
John

[Phoenix]

70 kays away is a long way, but I guess I've only seen the suburban collectors. Yes, forms can be collected as late as the 28th, although collectors are supposed to have 66% collected by this friday.