question on Brakes differences front /rear of S1 80"

[jedwards]

HI all, I am planning a brake overhaul but have some uncertainties that I hope this terrific groups can help me with.
My 1953 S1 80" running 10" brakes DRUMS.

Front and rear brake shoes .
I am pretty sure they are the same, so just need to order 2 sets?

I have a couple of leaky wheel cylinders, does that mean the brake shoes on those wheels are now Toast and ready for the bin, or can they be soaked to remove any brake fluid, cleaned, sanded and reused if there is still plenty of meat on them?

Wheel cylinders. I understand that they are handed, (different left to right) but are the front and read pairs the same? Parts manual has different part numbers for front/left, front/right, rear/ left and rear/right but the fronts and the rear pairs appear the same. Are they different?

Master cylinder. The mounting holes are different on early ( 3 holes) and later (2 holes) Series Master cylinders, but I have an adaptor, so can fit either configuration. Other than that, are they any major differences? The early ones are so much more costly, but for no apparent reason.

any advice greatly appreciated.
regards
Jeff

[V8Ian]

Can't help with your enquiry, but the front and rear cylinders may look the same, but have different sized bores, sending more braking power to the front.
In case you're not aware, old cylinders (wheel and master) can be resleeved with stainless. Resleeved cylinders often outlast new ones, particularly cheap, chinesium knockoff units.

[1950landy]

If there is brake fluid in the linings, they will need replacing otherwise when the brakes get hot the fluid in the linings will come to the surface again.

[whitehillbilly64]

Morning.
Brake shoes normal come in a set. Two pairs. Repco has them.
I have cleaned brake shoes using cheap degreaser and a heat gun. It does take a while.
Be careful sanding shoes. Old ones may contain some nasty stuff.
Resleeving is not cheap. My local Brake specialist charges $125 per cylinder, but that is ready to fit.
As mentioned, 1 1/4 inch fronts, 1 inch rears, and handed.
Many convert to 2 holes because of cost.
Paxton at Home | Heritage Series Parts (https://www.heritageseriesparts.com/) knows his stuff and supplies good Quality parts.

whitehillbilly

[jedwards]

Hi Whitehillbilly,
Any issue with running 1.25" bore cylinders all round, rather than less braking at the rear, for local low speed use?

I think mine are all 1.25" bores.

regards
Jeff

[5380]

HI all, I am planning a brake overhaul but have some uncertainties that I hope this terrific groups can help me with.
My 1953 S1 80" running 10" brakes DRUMS.

Front and rear brake shoes .
I am pretty sure they are the same, so just need to order 2 sets?

I have a couple of leaky wheel cylinders, does that mean the brake shoes on those wheels are now Toast and ready for the bin, or can they be soaked to remove any brake fluid, cleaned, sanded and reused if there is still plenty of meat on them?

Wheel cylinders. I understand that they are handed, (different left to right) but are the front and read pairs the same? Parts manual has different part numbers for front/left, front/right, rear/ left and rear/right but the fronts and the rear pairs appear the same. Are they different?

Master cylinder. The mounting holes are different on early ( 3 holes) and later (2 holes) Series Master cylinders, but I have an adaptor, so can fit either configuration. Other than that, are they any major differences? The early ones are so much more costly, but for no apparent reason.

any advice greatly appreciated.
regards
Jeff

Jeff, the 80" models have 1 1/4" front wheel cylinders and the rears are 1". If reversed , the rears will lock up and the fronts won't pull you up nearly as well. Make sure that you don't have a front and rear on the front axle!!! They are handed, L&R. Both have 7/16" UNF tapped port threads for the front banjo bolt and rear brake pipe nut to suit the 1/4" steel brake tubing. (don't use pure copper). Later, 1954 on, models have 3/16" brake pipes with 3/8" UNF port threads. The biggest problem to overall effiency is worn, over size drums. (Max + .030" or 75mm). They lead to difficulty in bleeding and maintaining a firm pedal. Another problem is the dimpled or wave washer missing from under the master cylinder recuperating seal (larger rubber seal). This missing washer will result in difficult and inconsistent bleeding. Some later master cylinders have a ring of small holes in the circular seat and don't use this washer. The S1 and S2 (SWB, 3/4" bore) CB type master cyliders can be interchanged by re-drilling the chassis mounting holes. The adaptor idea is a worry if it changes the clearance on the operating rod as this is very important. Bite the bullet and use SILICONE BRAKE FLUID after a total system clean out. It doesen't absorb water and rot your cylinders out like ethylene glycol fluids. The S1 Land Rover brake fluid reservoirs are not sealed and absorb atmospheric moisture. It seems to give a good pedal feel as it reduces friction in the hydraulics. I am not sure if you can remove oil or brake fluid contamination from your linings. Are they new or old ones? If they are old, be aware, they will be ASBESTOS!. Some people swear by a few applications of Brake Clean and leaving them in the sun to warm up in between. Also make sure that the rear axle flange oil seal drain holes are not blocked. I hope this is of some help. I had a lot of issues until I started all over again with carefully checked and measured drum and lining measure ments, new seals and rubbers with the silicone brake fluid.(N/A for modern cars with ABS). I now stops really well for a 70 year old car! 5380

[jedwards]

Hi 5380,
Many thanks for the terrific information and advice re wheel cylinders, & brakes.
Invaluable

Thanks a million, once again.
regards
Jeff

[1950landy]

If you go down the re-sleeve path, make sure you or get the brake Co to check the cylinders where the brake pipe seats for cracks. I had some done once, when I refitted them, I couldn't get them to seal. On closer inspection one was cracked & the other was completely missing. I managed to find a couple of more to re- sleeve, but the seats were cracked also so bought new ones.

[B.S.F.]

Also note that on original 80" cast iron wheel cylinders a ball was used as a seal on the bleed nipple.
Excerpt from a 1965 PBR brake parts catalogue.
.W.