A Frame Towing

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

I just put a bid on an A-Frame towing kit at the local auction place. The A-Frame has been sitting there for at least three of the weekly auctions. I am new to A-frames and I thought it might make it easier to tow non-running Land Rovers around the paddock. Where is the best place to fit the A-Frame on the front of the vehicle to be towed. Alternatively, if the vehicle was to be towed from the back - where would the A-Frame be secured. The vehicles to be towed would mostly be Series Land Rovers. Along, with the occasional International 1210 van.

What is the bet that someone else will bid on the A-Frame after it has sat there for so long! I suppose that is just the luck of the draw. Well, at last it is cool enough to go outside and do some mechanical tinkering - just before a possible storm.

Kind regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

I did win the A-Frame ... woot - woot!

Kind regards
Lionel

[V8Ian]

:ttiwwp:

[Lionelgee]

:ttiwwp:

Patience Ian,

I won the bid. Pick-up for items is tomorrow.

Kind regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Hello Ian,

Just so you don't have to wait too long for a photograph... another item I bid on and won was a Renegade 900kg ute crane that looks like it is brand new. Someone must have bought it for a project and decided to go another direction. I checked the ute crane over and I could not even find bolt marks around the bottom plate or a scratch in the paint anywhere. Photograph accessed 3rd December 2023 from, https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-xsnp47c4d3/images/stencil/640x800/products/2058/11232/riuc900s_001__21685.1698650333.jpg?auto=webp&format=pjpg&width=640&height=800&fit=cover. It is a TradeTools product. I paid $146 less than new price - so I reckon I did well for that bid.

Kind regards
Lionel

[Blknight.aus]

Hello All,

I just put a bid on an A-Frame towing kit at the local auction place. The A-Frame has been sitting there for at least three of the weekly auctions. I am new to A-frames and I thought it might make it easier to tow non-running Land Rovers around the paddock. Where is the best place to fit the A-Frame on the front of the vehicle to be towed. Alternatively, if the vehicle was to be towed from the back - where would the A-Frame be secured. The vehicles to be towed would mostly be Series Land Rovers. Along, with the occasional International 1210 van.

What is the bet that someone else will bid on the A-Frame after it has sat there for so long! I suppose that is just the luck of the draw. Well, at last it is cool enough to go outside and do some mechanical tinkering - just before a possible storm.

Kind regards
Lionel

chain between the chaissis and the spring at the front draped up and over the bumper. through the A frame end pins and secured back between the spring and the chassis.

Same place at the rear.

[Lionelgee]

Hello Ian,

Good things come to those who wait. See photographs below - as requested.

Dimensions are: Main material is square hollow section steel 40 mm. Overall length 1500 mm and width 730 mm

The attachment to the vehicle to be towed features a hole where a hitch pin locks onto to a bracket that must be bolted to the bumper bar mounting bolt holes. In a couple of the photographs it shows the hitch pins are stored via a braided wire clipped to the tow hitch handle. A possible example of these chassis mounted brackets appears at the 2:14 minute mark of this youTube clip... accessed 4th December 2023 from, 2:14 minute mark Sprinter Towing WITHOUT a Truck or Trailer! Cost MUCH Less than Flat Towing! - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_JSZPWsUMQ&t=602) The last photograph is the previously described bracket that I took a screenshot of the youTube clip.The bloke even drives a Land Rover!

There are no manufacturer plates or official rating plates from the Department of Transport and Main Roads any where on the A-Frame. According to the Department's specification the absence of a rating plate means that the A-Frame cannot be used to tow on Queensland roads. Just as well I bought the A-Frame for use in my paddock! Overall, I am very happy with my purchase.

I will visit some local agricultural machinery suppliers to buy a pair of longer hitch pins which allow chains to be attached to the A-frame ends. With the chains fitted to the hitch pin the other end of each chain can then be secured around the leaf spring as Dave described in an earlier post.

I will also be mounting an electric winch and possibly a jockey wheel so non-runners can be winched into and out of my shed while I sit in the driver's seat and steer. I have the winch and now I have the A frame. I have a spare jockey wheel somewhere. The idea is to winch the car into the shed at the start of the day and then winch it back out into the yard at the end of the day. That way my daily driver can overnight in the shed out of the weather. The rest of the time the A-Frame will be used with a tow vehicle hooked up to a non-runner vehicle in the paddock to bring it to a shady spot that has a nice solid base, or to he shed. Either instance it is a place where the vehicle can be worked on safely and comfortably.

After I attached the photographs I noticed that my shed has apparently turned over on its side and the earth has shifted its axis. The A-Frame was photographed in a vertical position not a horizontal one - as the photographs now suggest... oopsy! It is going to be a bugger to drive the cars out now.

Kind regards
Lionel

[V8Ian]

Thanks Lionel.

[Lionelgee]

Thanks Lionel.

G'day Ian,

I thought you might offer some of your hard won experience that I and other readers could benefit from!

Do I seem to be on the right track to you? I am aiming for a multi-purpose tool.

Whoever made the A-Frame took their time and did a good job. I reckon that the A-Frame saw a bit of the Australian countryside in its earlier time.

Does the first set of images appear at the wrong orientation on your screen - or is it just my screen?


Kind regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

It is a bit funny how the title of the youTube clips says ... "Sprinter Towing WITHOUT a Truck or Trailer! Cost MUCH Less than Flat Towing! - YouTube". Especially when towing with an A-Frame is also referred to as 'flat towing'. Or am I missing something ... a bit lost in interpretation, perhaps?

Kind regards
Lionel

[V8Ian]

I'm not a fan of A frame towing, Lionel, particularly small vehicles behind a mobile home. What happens when the mobile home needs to reverse? Impossible!

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

Have you ever owned something for years and just associated that item with one specific purpose? Then one day you turn your head at it and see it from a different perspective and say to yourself "well bugger me, I could use that for another new purpose!"

I have just returned from my shed after looking for a place to store away the A-Frame so that it is out of the way. The place I chose was in between some pallet racking. The same spot is where my disassembled tractor mounted three-point linkage jib crane is stored away. The jib is in one piece and the three-point linkage frame is the other piece. I turned my head to a different angle and made the above utterance. It turns out I found a very close match to my jib crane that was on sale on Gumtree. The photograph was sourced on the 4th of December 2023 from, https://gumtreeau-res.cloudinary.com/image/private/t_$_s-l800/move/49157459-9d67-4a80-922d-03888d8db2e2. The part within the red circle is the three point linkage frame. Each corner of the frame has stay bar or mounting pins fixed to the frame.

Instead of mounting the winch to the A-Frame I could mount the winch to the three-point linkage - is sure as hell is strong enough with how thick the steel is! I could use the bracket where the eye of the jib fits into the three point linkage as the point where the winch rope can be secured via a hitch pin. Where the mounting pins hook into the three point linkage bars I could use a top link end that fits over the mounting pin. Then if the diameter is the right size and thread, I could screw on a stabiliser chain onto the top link end. Then using a D shackle fix a length of chain to hook onto the vehicle to be towed. To check out what the parts I have described are visit this site... accessed 4th December 2023 from, Tractor 3 point Linkage parts – ARK Parts (https://arkparts.com.au/tractor-3-point-linkage-parts). I studied Farm Management and did units in Agricultural Mechanisation - hence my familiarity with tractor parts. Oh, I have no dealings with the mob who just happen to have a website that names each of the three-point linkage parts. I am sure that some of the names of parts are different to the ones I learnt... all those decades ago!

Anyway, by visiting the local farm machinery and tractor place and buying just a couple of new parts, it will allow the A-Frame to remain unmolested. The only barrier could be differences between the thread pitch and diameters of the top link end and the stabiliser chain link's female thread. I am sure there will be lots of bins of tractor goodies to hunt through so I can come up with a good solution.
Just by turning my head at new angle and seeing things differently.. and taking some time to think a bit. :banana::banana::banana:



Kind regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

I'm not a fan of A frame towing, Lionel, particularly small vehicles behind a mobile home. What happens when the mobile home needs to reverse? Impossible!

Hello Ian,

I will not be contributing to your displeasure as my A-Frame towing will be limited to the paddock.

Kind regards
Lionel

[V8Ian]

Hello Ian,

I will not be contributing to your displeasure as my A-Frame towing will be limited to the paddock.

Kind regards
Lionel
I saw that, mate. I'd like to be a fly on the wall when you try to reverse with any precision. [wink11]

[goingbush]

Back in the 1980's a few of us in the Land Rover club used to have A frames permanently mounted on the front of their Landys

I remember a trip where a fellow club member broke a steering relay box up north of Licola. Luckily he had an A frame - So I towed him home all the way to Doncaster , I had my 302 Powered SWB at the time . His Holden powered Landy had never gone so fast . Of course he was sitting in his Landy helping with brakes & indicators etc.

At one stage I swerved when I saw a cat, I missed but he got it.

And more recently I hooked up my Electric lightweight with an A frame & towed it behind my Iveco , The experiment was to demonstrate you can charge an EV battery by towing .
this is the dashcam view from Landy


https://youtu.be/V58pb3kHXoQ'si=PECE8UEwOGBZ1B-t

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

Just been doing some more digging online into different options with three-point linkage parts. If I get a universal ball end - female thread, plus the same size stabiliser eye bolt with the same handed thread, then I should be okay to have a point to hook the chains that secure to the vehicle that will be winched in and out of the shed. Less parts than first thought Plus, all the parts are designed for the sort of working load a tractor produces. So more of a safety margin for me. :0)

Well, that is it for me for tonight. Take care everyone!

Kind regards
Lionel

[Blknight.aus]

I saw that, mate. I'd like to be a fly on the wall when you try to reverse with any precision. [wink11]

If the tow vehicle is meaty enough its not a problem, the front of the towed vehicle goes where its forced to.

[Lionelgee]

Back in the 1980's a few of us in the Land Rover club used to have A frames permanently mounted on the front of their Landys

I remember a trip where a fellow club member broke a steering relay box up north of Licola. Luckily he had an A frame - So I towed him home all the way to Doncaster , I had my 302 Powered SWB at the time . His Holden powered Landy had never gone so fast . Of course he was sitting in his Landy helping with brakes & indicators etc.

At one stage I swerved when I saw a cat, I missed but he got it.

And more recently I hooked up my Electric lightweight with an A frame & towed it behind my Iveco , The experiment was to demonstrate you can charge an EV battery by towing .
this is the dashcam view from Landy

Hello Goingbush,

I have seen some Series Land Rovers on the road that have been fitted with A-Frames. At the time the A-Frame's presence raised the thought that they could not be too confident about the vehicle's reliability if it was so certain that it would require towing. An open invitation for something to go wrong.

I had to refer to Google Maps to work out the road distance between Licola and Doncaster, it equals 246 km.

The 302 would have been a Ford Cleveland V8 out of something like a 1974 XB? Did you match the V8 up to the standard Land Rover gearbox and transfer case?

It has been years since I saw a Series vehicle fitted with an Australian V8 for sale. The last one I saw on eBay was a Series shortie with a Holden V8 - not sure if it was a 253 or a 308 - it was a red motor though.


Kind regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Thanks Lionel.

Hello Ian,

If all my prior planning of the location of voluminous thoroughfares does fail and I do need to reverse with the A-Frame, there will not be the need for high degrees of precision manoeuvrability. One of the advantages of having a paddock is that it provides lots of space.

Kind regards
Lionel

[goingbush]

Hello Goingbush,

I have seen some Series Land Rovers on the road that have been fitted with A-Frames. At the time the A-Frame's presence raised the thought that they could not be too confident about the vehicle's reliability if it was so certain that it would require towing. An open invitation for something to go wrong.

I had to refer to Google Maps to work out the road distance between Licola and Doncaster, it equals 246 km.

The 302 would have been a Ford Cleveland V8 out of something like a 1974 XB? Did you match the V8 up to the standard Land Rover gearbox and transfer case?

It has been years since I saw a Series vehicle fitted with an Australian V8 for sale. The last one I saw on eBay was a Series shortie with a Holden V8 - not sure if it was a 253 or a 308 - it was a red motor though.


Kind regards
Lionel

The reason for A frames was more that you could hook two vehicles together over difficult ground & make an 8x8 , rather than fear of breakdown, Though axle breakages (and replacement) were routine on a club trip.

I had a 302 Windsor with C10 Auto (low stall converter) with a Nissan G60 transfer case, (Marks adaptor) Maxidrive lockers front & rear

This started as a 64 swb which I put on a cut down RRC chassis , fiberglass bonnet and front panel for the 90 lookalike . home made windscreen.

188049 188050

[Tins]

What happens when the mobile home needs to reverse? Impossible!

Very true, with most operators!

Note, I deleted the A frame bit.

[Tins]

Interesting thread, and timely for me. I saw on a motorhome thing the question asked re a Qld hitch brand name and suitability for a certain towed vehicle not mentioned on their site. It got me wondering. If I needed to relocate a D2 and my OKA a long distance simultaneously the A frame idea might be cheaper and possibly more stable than a hired trailer. So. is it possible? Err, the OKA would be in front, before you ask. This would not be something I would want to do for touring. Whole point of the OKA is it is a camper that can go nearly anywhere as it is.

[Lionelgee]

Interesting thread, and timely for me. I saw on a motorhome thing the question asked re a Qld hitch brand name and suitability for a certain towed vehicle not mentioned on their site. It got me wondering. If I needed to relocate a D2 and my OKA a long distance simultaneously the A frame idea might be cheaper and possibly more stable than a hired trailer. So. is it possible? Err, the OKA would be in front, before you ask. This would not be something I would want to do for touring. Whole point of the OKA is it is a camper that can go nearly anywhere as it is.

G'day Tins,

If you venture into Queensland here is some information sourced from the nice folks at the Department of Transport and Main Roads, accessed 5th December 2023 from, Towing equipment | Transport and motoring | Queensland Government (https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/vehicle-safety/towing/towing-equipment#aframe). There is also a separate publication on A-Frame towing. However, the webpage asks for a username and password to be able to access the document. I have not registered to access the document.

The website does detail the following ...

To provide for adequate levels of vehicle stability, handling and braking performance, it is necessary to maintain a towed mass ratio of not less than 3.5:1. This means the mass of the towing vehicle must be at least 3.5 times the mass of an un-braked vehicle being towed (that is, if the mass of the towed vehicle is 1,000kg, the mass of the towing vehicle must be no less than 3,500kg). If the towing vehicle is less than 3.5 times the mass of the towed vehicle, the brakes on the towed vehicle must be used.

I think with the OKA doing the towing you should be right with the towed mass ratio!

Kind regards,
Lionel

[Tins]

G'day Tins,

If you venture into Queensland here is some information sourced from the nice folks at the Department of Transport and Main Roads, accessed 5th December 2023 from, Towing equipment | Transport and motoring | Queensland Government (https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/vehicle-safety/towing/towing-equipment#aframe). There is also a separate publication on A-Frame towing. However, the webpage asks for a username and password to be able to access the document. I have not registered to access the document.

The website does detail the following ...

To provide for adequate levels of vehicle stability, handling and braking performance, it is necessary to maintain a towed mass ratio of not less than 3.5:1. This means the mass of the towing vehicle must be at least 3.5 times the mass of an un-braked vehicle being towed (that is, if the mass of the towed vehicle is 1,000kg, the mass of the towing vehicle must be no less than 3,500kg). If the towing vehicle is less than 3.5 times the mass of the towed vehicle, the brakes on the towed vehicle must be used.

I think with the OKA doing the towing you should be right with the towed mass ratio!

Kind regards,
Lionel

Err, my OKA is only GVM'd at 5000, so no...

[V8Ian]

I'd lay odds you'd get away with it, as long as you drove sensibly.

[Tins]

I'd lay odds you'd get away with it, as long as you drove sensibly.


Who? Me? [bigwhistle]

[Tins]

I'd lay odds you'd get away with it, as long as you drove sensibly.

I'd probably avoid Marulen.

[Lionelgee]

Hello Tins,

From the information provided by the very nice folks at the Queensland Department of Transport and Main Roads, if the tow vehicle is less that 3.5:1 than you can have someone in the vehicle that is being towed and they can apply that vehicle's brakes. You just need to provide your own helper to share the trip with you.

You could hire out the spare seats to backpackers. That could cover your fuel costs.

Kind regards
Lionel

[V8Ian]

I'd probably avoid Marulen.
Yeah, well it's not on the Newell. [biggrin]

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

I got to try out my unknown manufacturer A Frame this afternoon. I had to bodgey the connection to the Series 2A via a couple of chains around the front leaf spring shackles to the base of the A Frame. However, it worked. I had to take a couple of sharpish turns and it is just amazing to look in the rear view mirror and seeing the little 2A steering wheel turning itself around as I steered Snowy around the paddock. I had to navigate between a gap along the side of a shipping container and another vehicle being dismantled to fit the 2A in. The little 2A tracked perfectly through the gap. No need for two drivers with everything done by just me steering Snowy. It is a shame that all Land Rover projects do not go so smoothly!

Kind regards
Lionel

[V8Ian]

We'll done Lionel, now let's see you reverse it all. [wink11]

[Lionelgee]

We'll done Lionel, now let's see you reverse it all. [wink11]

Hello Ian,

It would not work with how I had to use chains. Plus, I am not a professional driver who can reverse a multiple trailer roadtrain. I thought it was cool just seeing the towed vehicle's steering wheel turn as I watched in the rear view mirror.

Kind regards