TD5 BioD?

[myway]

I have been told by my local ROVER Dealer I can not run my TD5 on BioD when Iasked why not they would or could not give me an reason why not I have e-mailed Rover Aust ans asked the same question so far no responce Can someone give a sound reason why the TD5 can not run satisfactary on BioD?

[DEFENDERZOOK]

they say it will eat through the fuel lines in the system......
as the lines are plastic.....

[DEFENDERZOOK]

i might also add.....that i have used bio on mine and so have a few others....
without any problems......


chances are.....you may have already used it without knowing about it....
its yellow in colour......some servos sell it without your knowledge.....
unless you look what colour the fuel you are pumping is.....you wont know.....
its mostly at the no name servos......and its usually cheaper....

[dobbo]

I have heard of people using it in their TD5 engines. I don't, i'm chicken due to the $15000.00 engine rebuild cost and the fact no-one will give me written evidence it will not wreck the engine

[tombraider]

I have heard of people using it in their TD5 engines. I don't, i'm chicken due to the $15000.00 engine rebuild cost and the fact no-one will give me written evidence it will not wreck the engine

Exactly.....

And to top it off, to save $0.10 per litre only to use 10% more fuel to travel the same distance.

And guys, with the inherent power loss what do you think this does to your vehicle?...... Easy.....

You work it harder, rev it more, change gears or labour the engine more....

Guess what... Your Bio is COSTING you money... In engine, gearbox etc wear..... Your working your vehicles harder to make up for lost performance....

At this stage, your all throwing your money away.... One day it may work, at this stage its not viable in a post 99 Landrover.

And its NOT because LR are non-Bio advocates...

LR openly declare you can run the V8s on Bio Fuel... Just not the TD5.

Keep using it as you will, but you should log your cost vs performance...

I'll bet the Bio users here will have a TCO the same, if not worse than the Mineral users.

Tombraider

[tombraider]

i might also add.....that i have used bio on mine and so have a few others....
without any problems......


chances are.....you may have already used it without knowing about it....
its yellow in colour......some servos sell it without your knowledge.....
unless you look what colour the fuel you are pumping is.....you wont know.....
its mostly at the no name servos......and its usually cheaper....

First servo that fuels my vehicle with unlabelled BIO will be in court so fast their freakin heads will spin.

This is illegal, immoral, deceptive....

I always check, but if its not labelled and hits my tank, guess who will be paying for it to be drained / towed / cleaned out....

Certainly not this Black Duck...

Tombraider

[Gavo]

I have been told by my local ROVER Dealer I can not run my TD5 on BioD when Iasked why not they would or could not give me an reason why not I have e-mailed Rover Aust ans asked the same question so far no response Can someone give a sound reason why the TD5 can not run satisfactary on BioD?

I would look for a email from a rover dealer in a country where bio diesel is common!
Go to one of the European bio diesel site for a start.

[Slunnie]

I understand the bio can lose some of its properties at the 24,000psi that the uniti injector produce. Apparently the lubricity breaks down and particles fall out of solution.

[dobbo]

I understand the bio can lose some of its properties at the 24,000psi that the uniti injector produce. Apparently the lubricity breaks down and particles fall out of solution.

Finally a reason why,

I have a challenge who will take me up on it


Why don't you eat chip fat and drink cheap vodka for a week and see what it does to your body, then think about putting it into your TD5

[Slunnie]

Finally a reason why,

I have a challenge who will take me up on it


Why don't you eat chip fat and drink cheap vodka for a week and see what it does to your body, then think about putting it into your TD5
Thats not gospel though. When I went looking for a reason, this was the only one I could find. Apart from this everything else looked really good. Irrespective though, I wont use it just in case it is correct.

Thats not a challenge. Thats me on holidays, well, except its bourbon and theres some potato in the chip fat. :(

[dobbo]

The problem is when you buy Bio from a no name bowser you don't know of the quality of it when, how or where it's made. Go to a high flow truck pump you know it's fresh, dinodiesel, I'll pay the extra for the quality stuff.


Or deposit $20,000 into my account, I'll run mine of Bio for a year, at the end if the motor survives I'll hand back $15,000

[Deffy]

My car is an import from Malaysia, it has been running on bio/**** diesel all it's life. They have no controls over what is sold, even reputable stations sell the crap.
My car smoked, lacked performance, and had low mileage until I brought it to Oz. The good diesel here is great. It now smokes much less by 60%, performance is better, and mileage is up at least 20%. This is a live case study for you.

I'm still thinking about putting it thru detox, other than changing the fule filter, I'm not sure what else can be done.

[dobbo]

Deffy is an old 200 or 300 mechanical engine though, a TD5 is electronic different story all together. Like you said Deffy would still run but not like it as much. I'd run an old engine on Bio, but not my TD5.

[Deffy]

Deffy' 200 TDI ran badly on bio, and that not electronic or TD5, so you can imagine what the stuff would do to a TD5.
So anyone can advise on any other detox method for my 200 TDI?

[dobbo]

Deffy' 200 TDI ran badly on bio, and that not electronic or TD5, so you can imagine what the stuff would do to a TD5.
So anyone can advise on any other detox method for my 200 TDI?

What I do is change filters add an additive and only use high flow or BP diesel

[tannery]

fwiw, I've been using biodiesel (home brew) for a couple of years, with no problems, whatsoever...

its fairly straightforward to make high-quality fuel, and there are simple tests to do that indicate same...

I also know of another landrover TDI 300, which has run on biodiesel of a considerable length of time.. a few years.. and again.. no problems. this landrover is in Sydney..

go figure..

biodiesel bob..

[solmanic]

they say it will eat through the fuel lines in the system......
as the lines are plastic.....

I thought we had been through this discussion and found that the post 2000/2001 TD5s were fine as far as fuel lines are concerned. It was earlier rubber ones that had problems. My research found references to a "potential" issue with the injector pin-lift sensor but this was also found to only affect earlier (pre-1999 or so) TD engines.

I am still convinced Landrover are just covering their asses by issuing a blanket dis-endorsement of Bio in the TD5. Of course they don't want engines under warranty to come back to them so they need to narrow the operational parameters.

Of course you can get "bad" biodiesel just like you can get "bad" regular diesel. I also thought that biodiesel, being much cleaner than petro-diesel would cause less smoke, once the existing crap has been flushed out.

Interestingly we have just seen the opening of "Australia's largest" biodiesel plant here in Brisbane. Consequently I would expect all us sunshine-state cheapskates to start filling up on the stuff but be too cheap to replace the fuel filters (as advised when switching). I predict many reports of poor economy, poor performance and failures of goodness knows what due to this. The resulting bad-press will no doubt result in many viewing biodiesel as a "dodgy" alternative fuel until we don't have a choice and the car companies get into gear and support it.

Maybe another option if poor performance is a concern (resulting in "thrashing" the engine and using more fuel thereby wrecking the advantages) is to gas-charge the engine. Or even better, gas-charge and re-chip the engine to get as much performance as possible. Or even better again, gas-charge, re-chip and upgrade the intercooler!

Just a thought but I am still seriously investigating this as the switch to bio-diesel is inevitable. It's like jumping into a cold swimming pool - the earlier you get in, the sooner you warm up (or freeze to death...)

[isuzurover]

Wow - there is a lot of misinformation here.

Firstly, biodiesel generally has BETTER LUBRICITY than modern low sulphur and ulra low sulphur diesel. In Germany and France (and indeed most of europe) normal petro-diesel is 5% BIODIESEL - to INCREASE LUBRICITY up to acceptable levels, now that the sulphur as been removed.

Properly made, washed biodiesel, to acceptable standards, should produce no detrimental effects on any LR diesel engine, nor any noticeable power loss.

For more information have a look on here: http://www.biofuelsforum.com/

[tannery]

Wow - there is a lot of misinformation here.

Firstly, biodiesel generally has BETTER LUBRICITY than modern low sulphur and ulra low sulphur diesel. In Germany and France (and indeed most of europe) normal petro-diesel is 5% BIODIESEL - to INCREASE LUBRICITY up to acceptable levels, now that the sulphur as been removed.

Properly made, washed biodiesel, to acceptable standards, should produce no detrimental effects on any LR diesel engine, nor any noticeable power loss.

For more information have a look on here: http://www.biofuelsforum.com/

err.. g'day..

actually, chemically, you cannot get the same performance from biodiesel as you get from dino-diesel.. the cetane rating of biodiesel is higher than dino-diesel.. so it actually burns better.. just slightly less oomph.. and as you mention, its the noticibility.. that's the thing.. hardly noticible.

and you will also notice that the engine noise is reduced, as a result of the lubricity.. I've done some noise comparisons against another TD5 running dino-diesel, and we found that there was a 1db (remember its a log. scale) difference, with biodiesel being quieter..

re:fuel lines.. the TD5 manual states that fuel lines are synthetic rubber, so there shouldn't be any problems there..

and i get my source of WVO (waste veggie oil) from 3 restaruants - and always looking for more.... and I'm doing them a favour, as they used to pay to dispose of the stuff. its a win-win scenario, so rare these days.

ciao,
biodiesel bob

[p38arover]

and you will also notice that the engine noise is reduced, as a result of the lubricity.. I've done some noise comparisons against another TD5 running dino-diesel, and we found that there was a 1db (remember its a log. scale) difference, with biodiesel being quieter..

1 dB is neglible - 3 dB is just perceptible even though it a a power change of 1/2 (or twice as much - depending on which way you go).

Ron

[Slunnie]

I was under the impression that every 3db gain was a double in noise. eg 93db is twice as loud as 90db, and 96db was twice as loud as 93db.

Also I understood that BioD does have better lubricity, but that may change under the extreme pressure generated in the unit injectors.

[CraigE]

Finally a reason why,

I have a challenge who will take me up on it


Why don't you eat chip fat and drink cheap vodka for a week and see what it does to your body, then think about putting it into your TD5
That sounds like a normal week. Except replace Vodka with Bourbon.
:o :o :o :o

[isuzurover]

I was under the impression that every 3db gain was a double in noise. eg 93db is twice as loud as 90db, and 96db was twice as loud as 93db.

Also I understood that BioD does have better lubricity, but that may change under the extreme pressure generated in the unit injectors.

Slunnie - you are completely correct - 3db is a doubling of the SPL (Sound Pressure Level) - pressure of the sound waves - which effectively means a doubling of the noise level.

Bob - please quantify/qualify "slighly less oomph" in terms of chemical properties or reaction kinetics/thermodynamics.

[JDNSW]

Slunnie - you are completely correct - 3db is a doubling of the SPL (Sound Pressure Level) - pressure of the sound waves - which effectively means a doubling of the noise level.

(snip)

But note that because the response of the ear is logarithmic, 3db is also just about the smallest difference in loudness you can hear.
John

[dobbo]

I saw a woman at the local pony club on Sunday who had a chipped TD5 disco running on Bio for the last 6 months. It didn't sound to different to mine. She boasted it could pull their horse float at 120kph.
My standard TD5 can do that easily.
Does the Bio rob it of so much power (sorry oomph) that it needs the mod chip to run normal?
How much difference does a mod chip make to a disco?

Both floats were of similar weight

[tannery]

The following is from Jon Van Gerpen - from the University of Idaho, who has done a great deal of development on biodiesel with the University..

"Biodiesel has a lower energy content (lower heating value of 37.2 MJ/kg for soybiodiesel) than No. 2 diesel fuel (42.6 MJ/kg for No. 2 diesel fuel). On a weight basis, the energy level is 12.5% less. Since biodiesel is more dense than the diesel fuel, the energy content is only 8% less on a per gallon basis (32.9 MJ/liter compared with 36.0 MJ/liter).

Since diesel engines will inject equal volumes of fuel, diesel engine operators may see a power loss of about 8.4%. In some cases, the power loss may be even less than this because biodiesel's higher viscosity can decrease the amount of fuel that leaks past the plungers in the diesel fuel injection pump leaving more fuel to be injected."


The original article is on the following website:
http://www.uidaho.edu/bioenergy/Publications.htm

so there.. "oomph", now defined..

regards,
biodiesel bob

[isuzurover]

The following is from Jon Van Gerpen - from the University of Idaho, who has done a great deal of development on biodiesel with the University..

"Biodiesel has a lower energy content (lower heating value of 37.2 MJ/kg for soybiodiesel) than No. 2 diesel fuel (42.6 MJ/kg for No. 2 diesel fuel). On a weight basis, the energy level is 12.5% less. Since biodiesel is more dense than the diesel fuel, the energy content is only 8% less on a per gallon basis (32.9 MJ/liter compared with 36.0 MJ/liter).

Since diesel engines will inject equal volumes of fuel, diesel engine operators may see a power loss of about 8.4%. In some cases, the power loss may be even less than this because biodiesel's higher viscosity can decrease the amount of fuel that leaks past the plungers in the diesel fuel injection pump leaving more fuel to be injected."


The original article is on the following website:
http://www.uidaho.edu/bioenergy/Publications.htm

so there.. "oomph", now defined..

regards,
biodiesel bob

Thanks Bob. So Biodiesel generally has a higher cetane number than dino diesel - which means it ignites more easily and burns faster, however a slightly lower energy content, so it doesn't produce quite as much power.

The higher cetane number explains why most biodiesel users report that the engine runs better and is quieter on biodiesel.

Straight canola oil (SVO/WVO) has a Cetane number equivalent to normal diesel, an equivalent heating value, and a higher viscosity - so many people have reported INCREASED performance when running SVO.

See table below:


Comparison of properties of diesel, canola oil and commercial US biodiesel
.
Diesel

Canola Oil

Biodiesel

Density kgL-1 @ 15.5 deg C
0.84

0.92

0.88

Calorific value MJL-1
38.3

36.9

33-40

Viscosity mm2s-1 @ 20 deg C
4-5

70

4-6

Viscosity mm2s-1 @ 40 deg C
4-5

37

4-6

Viscosity mm2s-1 @ 70 deg C
-

10

-

Cetane number
45

40-50

45-65

From "Waste Vegetable Oil as a Diesel Replacement Fuel" by Phillip Calais, Environmental Science, Murdoch University, Perth, Australia, and A.R. (Tony) Clark, Western Australian Renewable Fuels Association Inc.

[DirtyDawg]

Slunnie - you are completely correct - 3db is a doubling of the SPL (Sound Pressure Level) - pressure of the sound waves - which effectively means a doubling of the noise level.

Bob - please quantify/qualify "slighly less oomph" in terms of chemical properties or reaction kinetics/thermodynamics.

Ben, I'm a Brickie for phuksakes keep your post in "dumb english" for me 'slightly less oomph is good, to me thermodynamics sounds like a fashion accessory:D:D I enjoy your posts but the 3 hours of google deciphering them is killing me:D:D:D;) (all in good humor) the only people I see in white coats are the ones telling me to calm down its gonna be alright:)

[dobbo]

Ben, I'm a Brickie for phuksakes keep your post in "dumb english" for me 'slightly less oomph is good, to me thermodynamics sounds like a fashion accessory:D:D I enjoy your posts but the 3 hours of google deciphering them is killing me:D:D:D;) (all in good humor) the only people I see in white coats are the ones telling me to calm down its gonna be alright:)


LMAO

[isuzurover]

Ben, I'm a Brickie for phuksakes keep your post in "dumb english" for me 'slightly less oomph is good, to me thermodynamics sounds like a fashion accessory:D:D I enjoy your posts but the 3 hours of google deciphering them is killing me:D:D:D;) (all in good humor) the only people I see in white coats are the ones telling me to calm down its gonna be alright:)

ROFL - OK I will try to keep everything in words you can understand... :D

Maybe this will help you (or confuse you further)...

Thermodynamics Exam - Is Hell Exothermic or Endothermic?

As you study for exams, remember its not the quantity it's the quality. And remember there is no substitute for pure unadulterated bull

Dr. Schambaugh, of the University of Oklahoma School of Chemical Engineering, Final Exam question for May of 1997. Dr. Schambaugh is known for asking questions such as, "why do airplanes fly?" on his final exams. His one and only final exam question in May 1997 for his Momentum, Heat and Mass Transfer II class was: "Is hell exothermic or endothermic? Support your answer with proof."

Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following:

"First, We postulate that if souls exist, then they must have some mass. If they do, then a mole of souls can also have a mass. So, at what rate are souls moving into hell and at what rate are souls leaving? I think we can safely assume that once a soul gets to hell, it will not leave.

Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for souls entering hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, then you will go to hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all people and souls go to hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in hell to increase exponentially.

Now, we look at the rate of change in volume in hell. Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in hell to stay the same, the ratio of the mass of souls and volume needs to stay constant. Two options exist:

1. If hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter hell, then the temperature and pressure in hell will increase until all hell breaks loose.
2. If hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until hell freezes over.

So which is it? If we accept the quote given to me by Theresa Manyan during Freshman year, "that it will be a cold night in hell before I sleep with you" and take into account the fact that I still have NOT succeeded in having sexual relations with her, then Option 2 cannot be true...Thus, hell is exothermic."

The student, Tim Graham, got the only A.

[dobbo]

I haven't seen that one in a while, tis always one of my favorites.

[rmp]

The following is from Jon Van Gerpen - from the University of Idaho, who has done a great deal of development on biodiesel with the University..

"Biodiesel has a lower energy content (lower heating value of 37.2 MJ/kg for soybiodiesel) than No. 2 diesel fuel (42.6 MJ/kg for No. 2 diesel fuel). On a weight basis, the energy level is 12.5% less. Since biodiesel is more dense than the diesel fuel, the energy content is only 8% less on a per gallon basis (32.9 MJ/liter compared with 36.0 MJ/liter).

Since diesel engines will inject equal volumes of fuel, diesel engine operators may see a power loss of about 8.4%. In some cases, the power loss may be even less than this because biodiesel's higher viscosity can decrease the amount of fuel that leaks past the plungers in the diesel fuel injection pump leaving more fuel to be injected."


The original article is on the following website:
http://www.uidaho.edu/bioenergy/Publications.htm

so there.. "oomph", now defined..

regards,
biodiesel bob

Also given biodiesel is a natural lubricant it doesn't need some of the additivies of dino-diesel, and the engine runs smoother (less friction) as a result. So the actual power drop is less than the amount of energy would suggest.

It's not necessarily going to slow your vehicle down either, but it may mean using some extra revs. Power isn't all about energy per litre, because if it was diesels would be more powerful than petrols.

I wouldn't say a lack of power would be a reason to avoid biodiesel.

[tombraider]

I wouldn't say a lack of power would be a reason to avoid biodiesel.

No, the outright destruction of your motors Injectors, combined with non economical fuel usage vs cost should be enough to avoid bio-diesel.

Interesting facts...

Most Common Rail and unitary injector failures in Europe... France...
Shortest life of a bio-diesel TD5.... 600 miles (2nd tank ever)

Most common cause of injector failure in UK... Biodiesel

Large TD5/Landrover company in UK... Stated Bio destroys the injectors due to changes under pressure....

Arguments for Bio, most based on old style injectors and cost savings.

Tombraider

[isuzurover]

No, the outright destruction of your motors Injectors, combined with non economical fuel usage vs cost should be enough to avoid bio-diesel.

Interesting facts...

Most Common Rail and unitary injector failures in Europe... France...
Shortest life of a bio-diesel TD5.... 600 miles (2nd tank ever)

Most common cause of injector failure in UK... Biodiesel

Large TD5/Landrover company in UK... Stated Bio destroys the injectors due to changes under pressure....

Arguments for Bio, most based on old style injectors and cost savings.

Tombraider

Any proof for any of this??? The only failures I have heard of have been linked to either poor quality or unwashed biodiesel. There are plenty of people all around the world running TD4 and TD5 landrover diesels on good quality, washed biodiesel, without reliability problems or engine failures.

However it is true that most engines are not warranted by the manufacturers to run on biodiesel - but they are warranted to run up to 50% petrol in the fuel in places like siberia - which I am sure would do more harm than biodiesel.

Have a read here for more information.
http://www.biofuelsforum.com/using_biodiesel/495-landrover_td5.html

[lewy]

okay so bio diesel up here in darwin is made from palm oil does it make a difference what it is made from ie:canola.palm oil.cooking fat.etc

[dobbo]

Remember the John Laws ad "Oils ain't Oils"

When using any Bio the most important thing would have to be it's viscocity. In Bricklayers terms for DD How runny the **** is. As for what oils they use in the process it doesn't really matter , just don't risk it your TD5

[pilbara]

Hi, I ran my MY2003 TD5 on South Australia Farmers Federation(SAF) in SA for 2 years without problem. It gave more power and better fuel milage without any problems.

[Reads90]

I have been told by my local ROVER Dealer I can not run my TD5 on BioD when Iasked why not they would or could not give me an reason why not I have e-mailed Rover Aust ans asked the same question so far no responce Can someone give a sound reason why the TD5 can not run satisfactary on BioD?

BOll**Ks

My brother has been running his TD5 D2 for 4 months on Bio fuel in the UK. Says it goes better than with Diesel. But he does do a 3/4 tank dio and 1/4 tank diesel

[George130]

Still havn,t had mine on the road enough to even think about it yet. I would like to do it though but there is no possible way my budget can afford any unexpected repairs so If I break it I will have to sell it to fix it.

[tannery]

well.. I can only re-iterate my own experiences..

no problems running home made B100 (100% biodiesel) in my 2001 TD5 D130.

regards,

biodiesel bob..

[geckos]

First servo that fuels my vehicle with unlabelled BIO will be in court so fast their freakin heads will spin.

This is illegal, immoral, deceptive....

I always check, but if its not labelled and hits my tank, guess who will be paying for it to be drained / towed / cleaned out....

Certainly not this Black Duck...

Tombraider
I SECOND THAT HERE HERE!

[Scouse]

We've had a few fuel related issues through here lately.
Some customers are running bio diesel but not 100% & are having all sorts of dramas in the TD5 & the TDV6.

Some of the fuel samples I've seen have been extremely dodgy. In most, I don't think it's the bio causing problems but whatever the servo owner is mixing in with it.
Most seem to have a strong smell of thinners or some other solvent in with the fuel.
We've had samples analysed but the lab can't positively identify the culprit.

[George130]

We've had a few fuel related issues through here lately.
Some customers are running bio diesel but not 100% & are having all sorts of dramas in the TD5 & the TDV6.

Some of the fuel samples I've seen have been extremely dodgy. In most, I don't think it's the bio causing problems but whatever the servo owner is mixing in with it.
Most seem to have a strong smell of thinners or some other solvent in with the fuel.
We've had samples analysed but the lab can't positively identify the culprit.
Thats interesting. If you know would you pm me the servo brands. Rig is running fine but I an 2-300km down on distance this tank already! I'm not even half way though it. I plan to search for leaks this weekend.

[cameron]

Biodiesel is good but unfortunately as a general rule biodiesel from Volume Plus is just not up to the standard that we would like it to be.

Please don't write biodiesel off because some dodgy people are cutting it with crap.

Keep informed through www.biofuelsforum.com (http://www.biofuelsforum.com) and keep your eyes open for the new association we have just incorporated:
Australian Biofuel Users (ABU) http://www.biofuel.org.au

ABU is currently discussing the best options as far as suppliers of inconsistant quality biodiesel goes.

cheers,
Cameron

[MickS]

Ben, I'm a Brickie for phuksakes keep your post in "dumb english" for me 'slightly less oomph is good, to me thermodynamics sounds like a fashion accessory:D:D I enjoy your posts but the 3 hours of google deciphering them is killing me:D:D:D;) (all in good humor) the only people I see in white coats are the ones telling me to calm down its gonna be alright:)


:lol2: :arms: :lol2:

[Blknight.aus]

Exactly.....

And to top it off, to save $0.10 per litre only to use 10% more fuel to travel the same distance.

And guys, with the inherent power loss what do you think this does to your vehicle?...... Easy.....

You work it harder, rev it more, change gears or labour the engine more....

Tombraider

keh? how the hell can an engine thats making less power cause more wear? if thats true I should be absolutey killing my series parts.

A weaker dieso just means that I make less power at the same throttle position. Bio burns a little cooler than dieso so IMHO if the EGT's arent up then the engines not working hard regardless of throttle settings.

As for your 10c per liter savings Im making experimental batches and each litre costs me between 21 and 25 cents per litre the diesel I bought today cost me $1.29 a litre. Unless your using my wifes accounting thats about $1.04 to $1.08 back in my pocket.



I understand the bio can lose some of its properties at the 24,000psi that the uniti injector produce. Apparently the lubricity breaks down and particles fall out of solution.

particals yes, no, Maybe? (lubricity I'll get to next)

If the bio is clean bio, filtered through a 1 micron filter, is correctly dewatered and contains no ethanol or hydroxides there are no particals to come out of solution. But thats a lot of ifs, Its easy to make it this clean on a small scale but doing it on a large scale means the economies of doing it go right out the window. The big problem comes when the bio picks up the stuff thats already in your fuel system theres also the problem of it slipping past seals that are worn and once that happens theres the fuel leaks to deal with.

from an experiment I did last year the hydroxides and ethanol used in the production of bio are not plastics friendly.. I took some of the ethanol and soaked a fuel injector in it for a week the result was not something I want to see done to my $1550 injectors and the hydroxides made the ethanol look like something that Id happily recomend as injector cleaner.



What I do is change filters add an additive and only use high flow or BP diesel

I might be wrong here but isnt high flow diesel just the indicator that the pump has a big nozzle and a high flow rate compared to a normal pump?


I was under the impression that every 3db gain was a double in noise. eg 93db is twice as loud as 90db, and 96db was twice as loud as 93db.

Also I understood that BioD does have better lubricity, but that may change under the extreme pressure generated in the unit injectors.

the doubling per 3db is about right.

the lubricity loss thing is one of those disputable things depending on what the base oil was how it was made blahdy blahdy blah... any little change in the base oil quality or the remanufacturing process will effect the qualities of the bio. From my experimental batches I had it come out slicker than snot and some batches the just didnt feel like oil at all (still ran ok in the little test diesel ive got)

all oils have a "filming" pressure which in a nut shell is how hard you have to press 2 things together to dissipate the lubricating film of oil. An aftermarket stabiliser will help sort this out...
That still leaves you with the "how good is your bio?" conundrum..


IMHO Bios a double edged sword. Perfect Bio in an electronic diesel that has all the right type of materials in the fuel system that hasnt yet been run on normal diesel should be fine and dandy as theres nothing to contaminate the bio or go wrong with the bio. Occasional use of good bio mixed with good dieso shouldnt be a problem as you'll get the protective benifits of the dieso.

good bio in a mechanically injected diesel shouldnt cause any problems after its had the chance to clean out the crud from the normal diesel and at less than $80 for a new nozzle for an injector (parts only) if your brewing your own and makeing a 50c a litre saving you only have to run 160l (make it 176l to make up for the 10% power loss) youve saved enough to have a nice bloke like me rebuild your injector over a 6 pack of beer and a BBQ. But I'll bet you get further than that out of a set of injectors.

[easo]

I SECOND THAT HERE HERE! [/QOUTE]And to top it off, to save $0.10 per litre only to use 10% more fuel to travel the same distance.[/QUOTE]

And guys, with the inherent power loss what do you think this does to your vehicle?...... Easy.....

You work it harder, rev it more, change gears or labour the engine more....

Tombraider

Too right, it should be posted if the pump is bio. And priced accordingly too! I've got a mate in seymoure who brews his own at a cost of 25-30 cents a lt. So some stations are still charging the dino going rate for the bio. Further to that I've put two tanks of the stuff in to sally anne and now I,ve got starting problems. I'll post when I figure out the exact drama.

[BradM]

Hi,
I lived in Port Lincoln SA for two years before moving up to Karratha in Jan 2006. For the two years that I lived in Port Lincoln I ran my MY2003 TD5 just about exclusively on the South Australia Farmers Federation BioDiesel. During this period I had absolutely no problem whatsoever with the Disco. They replace the parafin wax with canola oil in their Diesel I was told.

The TD5 ran smoother, had more power, no exhaust smoke and pulled out 2.5 tonne van better. When we moved from Lincoln to Karratha we hit Mount Magnet and lost at least 50% of power - the cause being the guts of the front muffler had collapsed restricting exhaust flow and hence turbo boost.

Landrover could not find the power problem whilst they waited for a replacement piece of pipe including muffler from LRA (it was under warranty at the time). Wheter or not the SAF BioDeisel had caused this I have no idea but the Landy seemed happy for the two years that I ran it through the system.

SAF BioDeisel seems ok but others who knows.... Hope this added some value.