Fuel Pump Belt

[Woz]

Hello,

I have a 2012 Disco 4, 3lt Diezel.

Going to attempt the Fuel Pump Belt (READ belt)

Is the belt timed? videos of the job they say it's not timed,
but the manual shows the flywheel has to be locked to lock the camshaft and
a lock on fuel pump sprocket (see attached)

Any advice from anyone who has done this job much appreciated.

Thanks
Woz

[woko]

The fuel pump belt on a 3 litre is timed. The fuel pump belt on a 2.7 is not timed. The camshaft pin has to be installed before doing the pump belt. Some people will only do them with the body off. It is a doable thing with the body on, but it is very tight.

[Graeme]

I didn't find out until after I struggled for a long time to change the belt that removing the battery and fuse panel surround and maybe the battery too reportedly makes the task a lot easier, especially when R&R'ing the belt cover.

[loanrangie]

I didn't find out until after I struggled for a long time to change the belt that removing the battery and fuse panel surround and maybe the battery too reportedly makes the task a lot easier, especially when R&R'ing the belt cover.That's the process in the manual, provides a lot more room to move.

[Graeme]

No mention of it in my copy of the D4 WSM.

[woko]

You would remove the battery box anyway to access 1 of the mount bolts for the crank case breather tube that mounts to the egr valve

[PerthDisco]

Removing the coolant crossover as well as disconnecting the main harness connections from behind battery and bringing them across engine clears a lot of room. And battery box side.

[Woz]

Thanks for your replies,
Videos I've seen on this job are on the 2.7 ltr which explains why they say it's not timed,

I changed the timing belt this time last year but was pushed for time to do the fuel pump as well.

I have the tool to lock the flywheel from installing the timing belt, would the tool lock the camshaft in the correct position? (see attachment in first post)
Removing the starter to fit the turbo drain modification anyway.
Will just have to ensure the fuel pump sprocket is in the correct position before pulling the tensioner pin.

The manual doesn't describe removing the battery and wiring harness but that's the way they do it in the videos,
I will try it as per the manual and if it doesn't work, rip out the battery and harnesses.
The procedure is listed under 303-05 Accessory Drive TDV6 3.0L Diezel in the WSM. READ belt, Rear End Accessory Drive.

Thanks
Woz

[Graeme]

I really struggled getting my hands in between the top of the engine and the body to manouvre the cover into place whereas with the battery removed I would expect to get at least 1 hand in through the gap at the side. I would never again attempt the task unless more space could be provided.

[Woz]

Hi there,

thanks for all your help, I have ordered the fuel pump sprocket holding tool today.

once the job is complete, I will report back, if I still have skin on my knuckles.

Woz

[ATH]

I really struggled getting my hands in between the top of the engine and the body to manouvre the cover into place whereas with the battery removed I would expect to get at least 1 hand in through the gap at the side. I would never again attempt the task unless more space could be provided.

I recently made the same decision as I'm getting way past all the contortions needed to do these belts. An indie will be doing the belts on my 2016 D4 (138K) soon and then back up for sale it goes with absolutely nothing needing to be done.
And that will really be the truth not some smart arse sales talk.
AlanH.

[CountOtto]

The fuel pump belt on a 3 litre is timed. The fuel pump belt on a 2.7 is not timed. The camshaft pin has to be installed before doing the pump belt. Some people will only do them with the body off. It is a doable thing with the body on, but it is very tight.

This adds another level of complexity. I'm about to replace mine and didn't realise that the belt was timed. I've replaced one a TDV6 Territory and that was pretty straight forward and could be done with feel only. The SDV6 requires full visual so I think I'll need some sort of inspection camera along with the locking tools. I assume the timing isn't as critical as the front timing belt. My guess is its to ensure the pump produces a fuel pressure pulse at the optimum point for faster starting. I have noticed that there is slightly less cranking on the SDV6 compared with my TDV6.
Definitely not looking forward to this maintenance job.

[loanrangie]

This adds another level of complexity. I'm about to replace mine and didn't realise that the belt was timed. I've replaced one a TDV6 Territory and that was pretty straight forward and could be done with feel only. The SDV6 requires full visual so I think I'll need some sort of inspection camera along with the locking tools. I assume the timing isn't as critical as the front timing belt. My guess is its to ensure the pump produces a fuel pressure pulse at the optimum point for faster starting. I have noticed that there is slightly less cranking on the SDV6 compared with my TDV6.
Definitely not looking forward to this maintenance job.A small mirror like a compact works well.

[DiscoJeffster]

A small mirror like a compact works well.

I dare you to take one from the Mrs’ stash and see what happens, speaking from experience, and divorced. [emoji1787]

[scarry]

I dare you to take one from the Mrs’ stash and see what happens, speaking from experience, and divorced. [emoji1787]

Pet Budgie mirror is the better option,silicone it to a 2ft piece of 1/4" copper pipe.

I had one for years and it worked well,could bend it in any direction.

[Graeme]

I assume the timing isn't as critical as the front timing belt.From my reading of the WSM it needs to be correct. I didn't find setting the timing was difficult although I rechecked several times before setting it in stone.

[loanrangie]

I dare you to take one from the Mrs’ stash and see what happens, speaking from experience, and divorced. [emoji1787]

No downside to that [bigrolf].

[stuarth44]

Hi there,

thanks for all your help, I have ordered the fuel pump sprocket holding tool today.

once the job is complete, I will report back, if I still have skin on my knuckles.

Woz
mornin'
where did you buy the locker tools?

[CountOtto]

I've just looked at the WSM for this job and given the pain it is to lock the fly wheel, I think it can be done without doing so.
If I rotate the crank (with the old belt in situ) until the alignment marks are in the upper position as per the diagram from the WSM, and then place the pump locking tool in position and jiggle the crank until the locking tool fits. It should then be in the correct position. The old belt can then be removed with both the cam drive and pump in the right position. Given the effort in moving the crank by hand, there is no way the cam drive is going to move while fitting the new belt.
Any thoughts?

[4bee]

I dare you to take one from the Mrs’ stash and see what happens, speaking from experience, and divorced. [emoji1787]

CRIPES, that is a bit severe for trying to keep your car on the road. :rolleyes: [biggrin]

[RANDLOVER]

Pet Budgie mirror is the better option,silicone it to a 2ft piece of 1/4" copper pipe.

I had one for years and it worked well,could bend it in any direction.

For those uninitiated in the dark arts of copper tubing, Scarry is referring to annealed or soft pipe, not the hard drawn tempered stuff sold in lengths vs coils of the soft stuff.

[RANDLOVER]

I dare you to take one from the Mrs’ stash and see what happens, speaking from experience, and divorced. [emoji1787]

I double dare you to take some eyeliner pencils, lipstick and mascara for marking stuff while you are raiding the stash.

[BradC]

Lipstick makes a reasonable substitute for bearing blue if you're stuck and nailpolish for loctite.

[scarry]

For those uninitiated in the dark arts of copper tubing, Scarry is referring to annealed or soft pipe, not the hard drawn tempered stuff sold in lengths vs coils of the soft stuff.

Although I haven’t seen hard drawn 1/4 inch copper for quite a few years.

[4bee]

For those uninitiated in the dark arts of copper tubing, Scarry is referring to annealed or soft pipe, not the hard drawn tempered stuff sold in lengths vs coils of the soft stuff.


Would it not be better to Silicone the budgie to the tube & then he/she could report back after all not having a mirror the poor little bugger would have nothing to do in it's absence always supposing it is a talking Budgie.

I doubt you could get a Sulphur Crested to stay on the tubing if it flapped it's wings but a Budgie would have no problem, IMHO.




Works for me.:Thump::Rolling:



TiC of course. Children, DO NOT try this at home or elsewhere.

[RANDLOVER]

[QUOTE=4bee;3212598]Would it not be better to Silicone the budgie to the tube & then he/she could report back after all not having a mirror the poor little bugger would have nothing to do in it's absence always supposing it is a talking Budgie......./QUOTE]

Yes, and if the budgie starts hanging upside down on the tube, (and no it's not sleeping) you know you have an exhaust leak.

[scarry]

By the time it is hanging upside down it will probably have badly singed feathers,and look like a small cooked quail🤣

[4bee]

[QUOTE=4bee;3212598]Would it not be better to Silicone the budgie to the tube & then he/she could report back after all not having a mirror the poor little bugger would have nothing to do in it's absence always supposing it is a talking Budgie......./QUOTE]

Yes, and if the budgie starts hanging upside down on the tube, (and no it's not sleeping) you know you have an exhaust leak.

But if it had gripped the perch tightly before it snuffed it, it ran the risk of tipping the cage over in a Somersault Death Roll. You could lose your cage as it flip flopped down the street. Rand, I reckon you are bit weird, though I recall them using Canaries not Budgies, in Coal Mines to test for gas not budgies, though I stand corrected. That has gone out of fashion because of the introduction of Self Breathing Apparatus for Canaries but with some hesitancy, because the Canaries lived, so they were back to square one. That was created by the Ornithology Trades Unions by the Fly by Night Members & Shop Stewards Pecking Orders. I heard.
It may have been a tall Tail for all I know.[bighmmm]


[bigrolf][bigrolf]

[4bee]

Although I haven’t seen hard drawn 1/4 inch copper for quite a few years.


Certainly not if one has two strong-ish thumbs but Hard Drawn was a bugger. :bat:

[DazzaTD5]

just some info...

*yes rear belt is timed.
*if only doing rear belt, you dont need to lock the front crank pulleys or flywheel etc.
*battery out, battery box lower out, all that plastic round there.
*coolant cross over pipe off, or atleast disconnect from the passenger side (still need to disconnect one hose on the drivers side so the pipe will swing round to the drivers side of engine.
*pipes, brackets bits and pieces at the back, you will see them all, includes a pipe behind the belt cover.
*go down to your local tool shop and I'm sure you will find a mirror on a telescopic handle, prolly even a Kinchrome one.
*you can put a paint mark on the belt and rear gear on the pump and the housing to ensure you dont move anything.
*you wont be able to move the camshaft gear and the pump one is pretty stiff to move, so unlikely to accidently move anything.
*when doing it, put some form of cover/padding on the engine and lay on top of it with both hands down behind there.
*use your minds eye or jedi power and you will do it.
*the new belt goes on before the tensioner.
*the hardest part is getting the tensioner foot with the tab in its recessed part correctly.
*looking with the mirror spend time to see where the tensioner foot fits in.
*you will know when you have the tensioner in the correct spot as you can tighten the bolt initially up by hand.
*put a bit of loctite 243 on the bolt as all you are going to achieve is a nip up, then pull the pin.

[4bee]

just some info...

*yes rear belt is timed.
*if only doing rear belt, you dont need to lock the front crank pulleys or flywheel etc.
*battery out, battery box lower out, all that plastic round there.
*coolant cross over pipe off, or atleast disconnect from the passenger side (still need to disconnect one hose on the drivers side so the pipe will swing round to the drivers side of engine.
*pipes, brackets bits and pieces at the back, you will see them all, includes a pipe behind the belt cover.
*go down to your local tool shop and I'm sure you will find a mirror on a telescopic handle, prolly even a Kinchrome one.
*you can put a paint mark on the belt and rear gear on the pump and the housing to ensure you dont move anything.
*you wont be able to move the camshaft gear and the pump one is pretty stiff to move, so unlikely to accidently move anything.
*when doing it, put some form of cover/padding on the engine and lay on top of it with both hands down behind there.
*use your minds eye or jedi power and you will do it.
*the new belt goes on before the tensioner.
*the hardest part is getting the tensioner foot with the tab in its recessed part correctly.
*looking with the mirror spend time to see where the tensioner foot fits in.
*you will know when you have the tensioner in the correct spot as you can tighten the bolt initially up by hand.
*put a bit of loctite 243 on the bolt as all you are going to achieve is a nip up, then pull the pin.

So, a piece of cake, no probs job to do if yer lucky? [bigrolf]

[DazzaTD5]

So, a piece of cake, no probs job to do if yer lucky? [bigrolf]

well you know what they say... practice makes reasonable competence [tonguewink]

[4bee]

well you know what they say... practice makes reasonable competence [tonguewink]


Have never heard that one but it follows so it must be true.

That plus the old one, of things go better the 2nd time around it may very well go better & if one has had a Divorce that may not be the case.[bigrolf]

[PerthDisco]

In recently trying to find a new hpfp for my 2.7D the world of crazy irrational prices never fails to surprise. With hunting you can find the pumps for something around mid $2k but not easy to find new which in some ways seems cheap for such a technological masterpiece. I also checked with Ford dealers for the price of the belt and tensioner and they want about $1100 what a joke!!! Yes that’s the hpfp belt and not the front timing belt.

[Tins]

Our favourite German couple did one a while back. Can't link because she says **** a few times. But he proves it's doable. Not that i doubt you, Dazz. You say it can be done then it can. The vid helps though.

[4bee]

In recently trying to find a new hpfp for my 2.7D the world of crazy irrational prices never fails to surprise. With hunting you can find the pumps for something around mid $2k but not easy to find new which in some ways seems cheap for such a technological masterpiece. I also checked with Ford dealers for the price of the belt and tensioner and they want about $1100 what a joke!!! Yes that’s the hpfp belt and not the front timing belt.

As I keep reminding 'er indoors whenever she comes home & complains about prices (on anything) This is the age of the Rip Off with Businesses trying to recoup losses made during Covid shutdowns etc. Now, whether they are justified depending on the Business is a moot point, even if they really haven't incurred those increases so it seems every Man, Woman & Dog decided to lift prices to play catchup but if they used their nouse & use this to bung prices etc up they would have kept prices low until the situation had settled down & take a hit & at least may still have a viable business.

I know,easy to say but why not. Do I perchance live in Cloud Cuckoo Land?:rulez:

As I have said for years "Anything with a Part No will always cost more because it seems to make that item SPECIAL."

I rest my case M'lud.[bighmmm][biggrin]

[4bee]

Our favourite German couple did one a while back. Can't link because she says **** a few times. But he proves it's doable. Not that i doubt you, Dazz. You say it can be done then it can. The vid helps though.

HELP! I have tried to say**** but for some reason it tangles my tongue up.

However when I say **** it does the same. Weird or what?[smilebigeye]

[CountOtto]

just some info...

*yes rear belt is timed.
*if only doing rear belt, you dont need to lock the front crank pulleys or flywheel etc.
*battery out, battery box lower out, all that plastic round there.
*coolant cross over pipe off, or atleast disconnect from the passenger side (still need to disconnect one hose on the drivers side so the pipe will swing round to the drivers side of engine.
*pipes, brackets bits and pieces at the back, you will see them all, includes a pipe behind the belt cover.
*go down to your local tool shop and I'm sure you will find a mirror on a telescopic handle, prolly even a Kinchrome one.
*you can put a paint mark on the belt and rear gear on the pump and the housing to ensure you dont move anything.
*you wont be able to move the camshaft gear and the pump one is pretty stiff to move, so unlikely to accidently move anything.
*when doing it, put some form of cover/padding on the engine and lay on top of it with both hands down behind there.
*use your minds eye or jedi power and you will do it.
*the new belt goes on before the tensioner.
*the hardest part is getting the tensioner foot with the tab in its recessed part correctly.
*looking with the mirror spend time to see where the tensioner foot fits in.
*you will know when you have the tensioner in the correct spot as you can tighten the bolt initially up by hand.
*put a bit of loctite 243 on the bolt as all you are going to achieve is a nip up, then pull the pin.

What's the best way to remove the old belt? When I did the belt on my Territory I chomped thru the belt with a pair of side cutters. A very slow and awkward job. Others have suggested just remove the tensioner pulley but I was concerned it would mangle the retaining bolt on the last bit of thread.

[ATH]

well you know what they say... practice makes reasonable competence [tonguewink]

I always thought the saying was 'Practice makes perfect'. Sounds better than 'reasonable' to me... :)
AlanH.

[PerthDisco]

What's the best way to remove the old belt? When I did the belt on my Territory I chomped thru the belt with a pair of side cutters. A very slow and awkward job. Others have suggested just remove the tensioner pulley but I was concerned it would mangle the retaining bolt on the last bit of thread.

I have some small wire clippers which took no time to snip through and were small enough to get in the gap.

[BradC]

From memory I used a razor blade to saw my way through the belt. Didn't take long.

[RANDLOVER]

From memory I used a razor blade to saw my way through the belt. Didn't take long.

Obviously not the double-sided type, but a single edged paint scraper type, which are very useful I've basically stopped sharpening knives, and just use these for almost everything and then throw them away.

[BradC]

Obviously not the double-sided type, but a single edged paint scraper type, which are very useful I've basically stopped sharpening knives, and just use these for almost everything and then throw them away.

Yeah, years ago I bought 2 packs of 100 from Masters. I'm the same, use until it doesn't do the job and turf it. I did use them for welding practice for a while. Make great tests for low current TIG.

[4bee]

Obviously not the double-sided type, but a single edged paint scraper type, which are very useful I've basically stopped sharpening knives, and just use these for almost everything and then throw them away.

Are you Jack the Ripper?[bigrolf]

[DazzaTD5]

What's the best way to remove the old belt? When I did the belt on my Territory I chomped thru the belt with a pair of side cutters. A very slow and awkward job. Others have suggested just remove the tensioner pulley but I was concerned it would mangle the retaining bolt on the last bit of thread.

yes undo the retaining bolt

[DazzaTD5]

I always thought the saying was 'Practice makes perfect'. Sounds better than 'reasonable' to me... :)
AlanH.

yes... it is.

I have yet to see in all my time a job I thought was perfect at least not in my mind, there is always some item that could have been done better, easier, neater, quicker etc etc.
When people start to believe they are somehow perfect or are the bee all and end all on a particular subject then they stop learning.

[PerthDisco]

yes undo the retaining bolt

With no fear to damage the last few threads or do you support it while undoing?

[DazzaTD5]

With no fear to damage the last few threads or do you support it while undoing?

i think you are over thinking it... the foot (for the want of a better word) of the tensioner fits neatly into a recessed area so difficult for it to fling out, but as others have said a razor blade will likely make short word of it.

[ATH]

yes... it is.

I have yet to see in all my time a job I thought was perfect at least not in my mind, there is always some item that could have been done better, easier, neater, quicker etc etc.
When people start to believe they are somehow perfect or are the bee all and end all on a particular subject then they stop learning.

When we stop learning we may as well give up altogether. We can always learn from others experiences..... or at least most of us can. :)

AlanH.

[CountOtto]

You would remove the battery box anyway to access 1 of the mount bolts for the crank case breather tube that mounts to the egr valve

I'm attempting to do the fuel pump belt on my D4 for the second time, the first attempt I just gave up after getting the crossover pipe out. I've rallied some more courage and this time gotten to the point in the WSM ( step 12 picture E123760). Is this the crank case breather tube you mentioned? This must be one of the obvious differences between the 2.7 and 3.0 motors as all the Youtube videos based on the D3 don't mention this tube which must be removed to access the cover.
I must admit the WSM covering this job has scant detail, just pictures of various bolts and clips to remove with little detail on what to do or why you are doing it.
Has any one written up a procedure on this job?