Set Top Box - Waste of Money

[101RRS]

I bought a set top box yesterday - a cheapy so that I could get rid of some buzzing in the sound of the ABC caused by nearby wires. Worked for this fine - but if you already have good reception I don't see what the advantage - mine was a cheapy and worked for what I bought it for but I could not see me spending hundreds of $$ for one of these for no real improvement in quality.

I know we will have to change over at some time but is it really worth it. As well my set top box is only the size of a fag packet so there is no reason why it could not be built into every panel making them TVs.

Waste of money in my view.

Gazzz

[Utemad]

My Dad has a house in a low reception rural area. We bought a set top box and instantly he had better tv than me and I live in Brisbane :o

[incisor]

till it rains.....

they are better in low reception areas in good weather, thats for sure...

[Phoenix]

Also, in our case we got an extra 3 TV channels that you can't get on regular TV here. ABC2, SBS2 and 10.

Improved our reception out of sight, mainly for one bad chanel, but the extra chanels are nice.

[waynep]

Agree that digital tuners should be the standard on all new TVs and DVD recorders.

Advantages of digital :
1. clearer reception in marginal areas - and less susceptible to interference in any area.
2. 16:9 widescreen format ( analogue is only 4:3)
3. extra channels and hopefully more will become available.
4. High Definition ( if you have a HD STB and TV.)
5. Better sound

I think it is worth it for the 50-100 bucks you spend on a STB these days.
If you can afford one with a Hard Disk in it, it opens up a whole new world ( 40-60 hours of recording, time shift etc etc )

[Omaroo]

Agree that digital tuners should be the standard on all new TVs and DVD recorders.

Advantages of digital :
1. clearer reception in marginal areas - and less susceptible to interference in any area.
2. 16:9 widescreen format ( analogue is only 4:3)
3. extra channels and hopefully more will become available.
4. High Definition ( if you have a HD STB and TV.)
5. Better sound

I think it is worth it for the 50-100 bucks you spend on a STB these days.
If you can afford one with a Hard Disk in it, it opens up a whole new world ( 40-60 hours of recording, time shift etc etc )

The biggest plus for us are the online program guides..

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I bought a set top box yesterday - a cheapy so that I could get rid of some buzzing in the sound of the ABC caused by nearby wires. Worked for this fine - but if you already have good reception I don't see what the advantage - mine was a cheapy and worked for what I bought it for but I could not see me spending hundreds of $$ for one of these for no real improvement in quality.

I know we will have to change over at some time but is it really worth it. As well my set top box is only the size of a fag packet so there is no reason why it could not be built into every panel making them TVs.

Waste of money in my view.

Gazzz
Nearly 3 years ago we bought a Strong 5390. It's a standard definition digital receiver with a 80gb hard disk.

It has completely revolutionised out TV viewing. The real killer apps for this type of device are...

1. WWWIIIDDDEEESSSCCCRRREEEEEENNN :D :D
2. ultra convenient recording - timeslipping means you watch your programs when it's convenient.
3. Extra channels.. we get a lot of use out of ABC2.
4. Perfect reception... always.

Yep... we use it ALL the time and would have trouble living without it :eek: A little while ago we thought it was broken and the family went troppo at the thought of being without it for a week.:eek: :eek:

Just yesterday we bought a DVD recorder. This now means we've got the one weakness with these devices covered... that is the ability to move stuff off the hard disk and keep it. :)

The first manufacturer to combine a set top box with a hard disk, and a dvd recorder won't be able to build enough of them. We will buy again when they do a HD receiver with the blue ray writers :)

[Tusker]

snip....

The first manufacturer to combine a set top box with a hard disk, and a dvd recorder won't be able to build enough of them. We will buy again when they do a HD receiver with the blue ray writers :)

Its here now. Dirt cheap. Do a search on TV tuners for laptops. No card anymore, just straight into the USB port. HD, too.

When you search the bit torrent sites, theres an awful lot of TV prograames being recorded.. These laptop tuners have the software..

If you have a spare laptop, the only real cost is a decent screen. Much cheaper & more versatile than a dedicated digital TV.

Regards
Max P

[dobbo]

snip....

Its here now. Dirt cheap. Do a search on TV tuners for laptops. No card anymore, just straight into the USB port. HD, too.

When you search the bit torrent sites, theres an awful lot of TV prograames being recorded.. These laptop tuners have the software..

If you have a spare laptop, the only real cost is a decent screen. Much cheaper & more versatile than a dedicated digital TV.

Regards
Max P


I agree enough with an ounce of intellegence could and should build themselves a media centre. If you've got the cash and no time buy a microsoft one but it wont be as good.

[101RRS]

Guess people have different experiences - for me I cannot really see the benefit but if I lived elsewhere it might be different. But then I only live about 6km from the tv transmitters so have good TV anyway.

The cheapy I bought is fag packet size (but has full functionality and a remote) and runs off 12v (9-15v DC) so might have some application to campers where poor reception can be a problem.

Gazzz

[VladTepes]

So whats the go with building a PC based media centre to match with the TV (rather than simply buying a DVD recorder for example)?

Surely by it's nature such a computer would need to spend most if not ALL of its time turned ON so that it can record programs, allow you to watch the TV etc. This raises questions of:

Cooling
Fan Noise
Power Consumption
Fire Hazard (is it more of a fire risk than a video etc)?

OK let's hear it then.....

[George130]

I was planning to put the TV arial back up one day and test a set to box. The arial on its own with a booster is just not watchable but I do get canberra and wagga at the same poor level.

[DiscoDave]

I live in a 'marginal' TV reception area - that means most of the channels are poor quality and SBS is non-existant. Only the ABC is good quality but it is subject to interference. The set top box was great - for some reason it won't pick up the ABC but the commercials look crystal clear. I always thought all the movies on channel 7 were filmed at midnight, underwater, but it's not true!:D

[dobbo]

So whats the go with building a PC based media centre to match with the TV (rather than simply buying a DVD recorder for example)?

Surely by it's nature such a computer would need to spend most if not ALL of its time turned ON so that it can record programs, allow you to watch the TV etc. This raises questions of:

Cooling
Fan Noise
Power Consumption
Fire Hazard (is it more of a fire risk than a video etc)?

OK let's hear it then.....

All the other components have fan noise and power consumption anyway. What would use more power and be more of a fire risk 5 components or 1 P.C tower?
If you go this way you would have a decent sound system to back it up anyway wouldn't you

so in reality you have a T.V(monitor), amplifier and media centre with 1 remote thats it

[Pedro_The_Swift]

So whats the go with building a PC based media centre to match with the TV (rather than simply buying a DVD recorder for example)?

Surely by it's nature such a computer would need to spend most if not ALL of its time turned ON so that it can record programs, allow you to watch the TV etc. This raises questions of:

Cooling
Fan Noise
Power Consumption
Fire Hazard (is it more of a fire risk than a video etc)?

OK let's hear it then.....


you wont need a space shuttle(:D) PC for a media centre,
these things are catered for by most hardware designers and QUITE is the go--, a PSU fan, cpu fan, thats about it,, the rest are all done by heatsinks,,

some very nice ones around.

[VladTepes]

QUITE is the go--

QUIET even. :tease:

[VladTepes]

So what's the go with set top boxes ?

I currently have my video set up so I can tape something while watching something else. I know this is because the VCR and the TV each have a tuner. An analogue one.

How would I instal a STB so this was still possible. Will one box get me all channels in digital simultaneously ? Fill me in people - I'm slow on the uptake with the whole STB thing.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

So what's the go with set top boxes ?

I currently have my video set up so I can tape something while watching something else. I know this is because the VCR and the TV each have a tuner. An analogue one.

How would I instal a STB so this was still possible. Will one box get me all channels in digital simultaneously ? Fill me in people - I'm slow on the uptake with the whole STB thing.

A STB is just a digital television receiver. These are good because they receive in widescreen, and usually generate a higher quality picture.

There are also things called Personal Video recorders. These are STB's coupled with a hard disk for recording. They will revolutionise your tv watching.

There are also "Media Centre PC" which are pcs set up to be PVR. They ususally add features like multiple tuners, and internet surfing.

Once you get over the wedding (and before things get bad LOL - JOKE) you should come over. :)

[waynep]

So what's the go with set top boxes ?

I currently have my video set up so I can tape something while watching something else. I know this is because the VCR and the TV each have a tuner. An analogue one.

How would I instal a STB so this was still possible. Will one box get me all channels in digital simultaneously ? Fill me in people - I'm slow on the uptake with the whole STB thing.

Vlad with any STB you should still be able to use all your old gear with it. For example it will have a standard composite video output and you can feed that into your existing TV or your VCR. ( bypassing their internal analogue tuners). This will give you a higher quality picture on the TV, or recording on the VCR. So you could for example watch TV using its analogue tuner while recording another channel on on the VCR using the STB. If you wanted to record AND watch in digital at the same time though you would need 2 STBs.

That is why the PVR's are great. They normally have two digital tuners built in so you can watch one channel while recording another one on to the Hard disk. We never use the VCR now for recording only the PVR. No more labelling tapes and trying to find a half hour program somewhere on a four hour tape ! Yahoo

[VladTepes]

cool and what are good brands of pvr, what size hard disc is needed and how many $$$ ? Are the programs saved just under filenames same as on a pc so easy to find/access ?

[shorty943]

I bought a set top box yesterday - a cheapy so that I could get rid of some buzzing in the sound of the ABC caused by nearby wires. Worked for this fine - but if you already have good reception I don't see what the advantage - mine was a cheapy and worked for what I bought it for but I could not see me spending hundreds of $$ for one of these for no real improvement in quality. I know we will have to change over at some time but is it really worth it. As well my set top box is only the size of a fag packet so there is no reason why it could not be built into every panel making them TVs. Waste of money in my view. Gazzz You mean to say you could not see any difference in analog to digital telly? If you link it to a newer LCD rather than an older CRT picture tube type TV, you just might be amazed. If linked to an older style analog TV the STB will downgrade the signal so the older machine can handle it, if linked to a newer genuine digitally driven set, you will run from the room coz that damn Lion looks like it will jump out of the set at you. I live in SA's Mallee region, normal TV can be snowy crackly buzzy and I have to get up on the roof to turn my arial slightly if I want to watch ABC then back again for 0/10. Not with my $59 Hong Kong charlie STB, never goin back man.
As for Media Centre PC's, read the horror stories in the computer mags, as of mid year, still not worth their cost.
Myself? LCD widescreen TV ( only analog tuner) connected to my 64bit Athlon puter, with a PCI Digital Tuner card($80), I watch telly now full screen or windowed whilst tapping out this post, the surround sound is amazing, I keep looking around to see who just walked into the room, then find it was on the movie sound track. The TV I purchased from Tandy, yes Tandy. World famous brand, Wintal? Built in DVD player, 2x AVI, 1xDVI(digital video input,
that is the connection to the puters graphic card) all for the princely sum of $1600. Media Centre PC? No way. Just whack a tuner card in a spare PCI slot and press the remote buttons. Yes, puter tv cards come with remote control, mine even controls my A/C, found that out by accident, changed channel the other day and my A/C beeped, triffic a multifunction thingy.



regards shorty943.

[ladas]

Guess people have different experiences - for me I cannot really see the benefit but if I lived elsewhere it might be different. But then I only live about 6km from the tv transmitters so have good TV anyway.

The cheapy I bought is fag packet size (but has full functionality and a remote) and runs off 12v (9-15v DC) so might have some application to campers where poor reception can be a problem.

Gazzz

If it's not a rude question - what did you pay for it

Ladas

[p38arover]

I have two STBs. The problems I've experienced with both (different brands) are that they lose channels and need regular rescanning to get them back.

They will lose sound but not pix and need rescanning to get the sound back.

Sometime one can get away with a power-down and reboot to get them working again.

They are exceptionally susceptible to electronic noise from lights or appliances being switched on or off thus causing freezing of the pic and/or loss of sound for a second or so. Almost certainly I need to completely replace my TV cabling with quad shileded cable throughout the house.

Total loss of signal on all channels is quite common when conditions are bad (Digital Cliff http://www.dba.org.au/index.asp'sectionID=25#Digital_Cliff) where the analogue TV will be soldiering on.

When conditions are good, the picture is excellent - but the shows are still crap. Certainly all the problems of ghosting and interference are gone (we get quite bad ghosting at the base of the Blue Mountains).

I can't wait to see all the oldies who will be losing TV reception when we go fully digital and their STBs lose it and need rebooting or rescanning. There's gunna be a lot of call outs for TV servicemen.

Ron

[dobbo]

You mean to say you could not see any difference in analog to digital telly? If you link it to a newer LCD rather than an older CRT picture tube type TV, you just might be amazed. If linked to an older style analog TV the STB will downgrade the signal so the older machine can handle it, if linked to a newer genuine digitally driven set, you will run from the room coz that damn Lion looks like it will jump out of the set at you. I live in SA's Mallee region, normal TV can be snowy crackly buzzy and I have to get up on the roof to turn my arial slightly if I want to watch ABC then back again for 0/10. Not with my $59 Hong Kong charlie STB, never goin back man.
As for Media Centre PC's, read the horror stories in the computer mags, as of mid year, still not worth their cost.
Myself? LCD widescreen TV ( only analog tuner) connected to my 64bit Athlon puter, with a PCI Digital Tuner card($80), I watch telly now full screen or windowed whilst tapping out this post, the surround sound is amazing, I keep looking around to see who just walked into the room, then find it was on the movie sound track. The TV I purchased from Tandy, yes Tandy. World famous brand, Wintal? Built in DVD player, 2x AVI, 1xDVI(digital video input,
that is the connection to the puters graphic card) all for the princely sum of $1600. Media Centre PC? No way. Just whack a tuner card in a spare PCI slot and press the remote buttons. Yes, puter tv cards come with remote control, mine even controls my A/C, found that out by accident, changed channel the other day and my A/C beeped, triffic a multifunction thingy.



regards shorty943.


who said anything about buying a media centre? I mentioned building one up

[sschmez]

They are exceptionally susceptible to electronic noise from lights or appliances being switched on or off thus causing freezing of the pic and/or loss of sound for a second or so.

There's your early warning system ... work out which switches are causing the problem and get them replaced before your house burns down ... a new switch that doesn't arc fixes that problem.


BTW, my STB with PVR is a "Wintal" and I'm very happy with it

[p38arover]

There's your early warning system ... work out which switches are causing the problem and get them replaced before your house burns down ... a new switch that doesn't arc fixes that problem.

Virtually every switch in the house, be it a house one or a switch on an appliance. Even brand new GPO switches fitted when the new kitchen was installed.

Ron

[shorty943]

Okey Dokey. slip down to your local PC shop, pick up a PCI Digital Tuner card, plonk it in a spare slot, install the software, do the required channel scan, bob's your uncle. Cards vary from as little as $80 to some hundreds of dollars. Me, pensioner, me, I got what I could afford. I noticed sschmez got a Wintal STB. You happy with it sschmez?
BTW. I live some 80K's from the transmission towers


regards shorty943.

[abaddonxi]

I had a Dick Smith sd set top box till last week when it stopped working.

Of course just over a year old, and of course in the year or so of buying things when I seem to have chucked the receipts away.

Called DS and they were happy to fix it for me, even a bit out of warranty as long as I could find some evidence of purchase. Nope. Worse, my dad bought one the day before me, exactly the same, his still works fine, but the man who has the receipt for a mop that he bought a decade ago didn't keep the stb receipt.

Just more of my luck.

BTW, loved it when it worked, clock, program guide, great reception. Did have problems with the dishwasher and storms.

Cheers
Simon.

[shorty943]

Dayum. My Twin Hann PCI Digital Tuner card just went bung. No probs. Trotted of to Coles, and purchased an STB. $59, brand MTV. Hooked it up to my No.1 AVI, got my nice digital picture back, and no more PC fans roaring to keep the 64 bit Athlon cool. My second STB, gave the first one to my kid brother when i got the computer tuner card.
Yes, I like the picture quality, the stereo sound, etc, of digital TV, no more analog for me.
EEK. Maybe my Ludditeism is slipping, have to watch that.
Shorty.

Simon, if your dishwasher is playing up, try treating her better.(lol)

[Turtle61]

Hey guys, STBs if EXACTLY what the company I (used to) work for does. Nothing more than that - and software that runs it.

In a nutshell, a STB will do nothing much for a regular CRT TV - there will be no perceptable difference except for the quality of the reception and better sound etc etc.

Wide screen - huge diff. High Def - even better. Hook up one of these to a 5.1 sound system and things get better. DVRs/PVRs are realy taking off. PVR/DVR (PVR:Personal Digital Recorder - a trademark, DVR: Digital Video Recorder - a 'common' name) with a built-in DVD burner raises HUGE copyright questions and issues. Most TV stations and movie studios will not be too happy to have a digital movie burnt directly onto a DVD. Quality is too high and they recon it would open doors to piracy - hence they will allow analogue output (lower quality) from a PVR to be hooked up to DVD burner but will not allow digital content to be recorder directly onto a DVD.

We developed a 17 inch LCD with a built-in digital receiver. Back then it was too expensive for most people to think about it so the project went bust... but the components were redistributed as STB modules for LCD TV manufacturers who would have better market presence.

Italy these days is progressively switching analogue off so people have to either buy STB or new digital TVs. The Italian government had a huge subsidy system going for all those who pay their yearly TV tax. This came to a point about two years ago where our STBs were walking out of the shops for nothing: you could pick up a STB, show the check-out chick your tax receipt and the price for the STB was exactly the same as the subsidy, so you basically walked out with a basic STB for nix. And we still got the money.

The main difference with digital tele is that for the power and bandwidth of one analogue channel you could pump out four (4) digital standard definition channels or one high def channel. Oz government was trying to mandate high def broadcast for all channels what would defeat the benefits as far as stationns were concerned. This is one of the reasons why the uptake of DTV was so slow in Oz. AFAIK this is all changed. The other problem is the software and application standard. There are a small number of key players and technologies such as MHP and MHEG middleware solutions for interactive tele and at the moment I am not sure which will be / is the standard for Oz. Italy (a good case study) went for MHP (Multimedia Home Platform). UK went for MHEG. Both have their pros and cons. Both of these are open standard so anyone can develop application etc.

As far as media centres are concerned it is all fine and good for people who love playing with that sort of thing, hooking up things and making them work together. I always designed the user interface to be very user friendly so your grandma could use it. Most people, it seems, would like something to replace their VCR - dare I say 'simple and easy' to use?

Although I work(ed) in the digital TV industry I don't have and don't watch tele - frankly I have better things to do (and doing it now).

Anyways, I should give it up - they 'did not renew my contract'...

[shorty943]

Yep, you are spot on there turtle. Most people are simple, and want it all easy. The OZ Govt can't get their act together, the polly's don't understand, and the Public Servants, well nuff said bout that lot. As for standards compliance? Aren't there 4 levels of posix compliance? With the lowest being verbal. That is, a manufacturer claims compliance, under their own interpretation. An MS trait.

Shorty.

[VladTepes]

In a nutshell, a STB will do nothing much for a regular CRT TV - there will be no perceptable difference except for the quality of the reception and better sound etc etc.


That's plenty as far as I'm concerned - anything that will get rid of the Ch 2 ghosting....

So whats a good brand of STB for cheap ?

[4bee]

Saw some in Coles Supermarket last Tuesday. $39. Christ you wouldn't even worry about Warranty at that sort of price, Just ditch it.

Like most things electronic these days, they all look like they come out of the same factory so it possibly have been an ok make.

[Scouse]

That's plenty as far as I'm concerned - anything that will get rid of the Ch 2 ghosting....

So whats a good brand of STB for cheap ?Channel 9 ghosts here. I bought Aldi's set top box & it's brilliant. Not quite as cheap as the $39 jobbie but I'm sure it will be the same guts.

[MarknDeb]

I know this is a bit different but we got one for the caravan because so many parks you go to have poor recption, since getting the box, setting up is a breeze

[abaddonxi]

Bought the Dick Smith one a year or so ago, broke after a year, but that was because I put the fan on top of it, not because it's particularly dodgy.

One of the differences between the cheaper and mildly less cheap is S-video versus Scart plugs - I think mildly better pic with S-video and quality of menu and on screen display.

The display thing doesn't sound like much, but you see it every time you change channel, and I became addicted to the tv guide. Saw a mate's STB and couldn't stand the display after first five minutes.

The DSE one is now under a hundred bucks.

Also, when I called tech support they were dead keen to fix the box outside warranty period, if only I could have made any kind of proof of purchase.

Cheers
Simon.

[Turtle61]

Can't say what's good or bad on the Oz market... but I know for a fact that the cheap ones use cheap components woth very short life expectancy and, in general, high failure rate. But, if there is 1 year warranty - what's not to like about a cheap DTV STB. The cheap ones may also be a bit dodgy - in a sense that they may not be paying royalties for technological rights (no finger pointing). Not that this is any concern of the consumer... we had this issue with pricing war recently - our STBs are manufactured in Thailand, engineering done in Poland and Taiwan, design WAS done by this Aussie bloke in Switzerland and all royalties were paid to the intelectual property owners (DVB, MHP, DivX, MPG etc) ... now the cheap Chinese products are fully designed (or ripped off) in China and in some cases there are Chinese government subsidies high enough to counter the high import duties (happened with EU import duties). So for $39 don't expect it to live very long - 13 months would be my guess ;)

As for the comment that they come out of the same factory - that may be true but often the 'brands' will dictate a certain level of component quality, stringent testing, quality control and so on, so what on the surface may appear to be the same product, the little things do start to count.

The difference between the higher spec models is that they may be running software / system capable of interactive TV applications such as gaming, betting, shopping with return channels via built-in modem or ethernet, as well as multi-room system ready, conditional access system for premium (paid) content which all adds up to quite a bit of dosh.

We had this bloke working for us in the Oz office who would setup a satellite dish and hook up his STB everytime he went 'camping' with the caravan - a bit of an overkill for me but well... I also saw portable DTV kits in supermarkets here in Geneva - they come in a nice cary case with everything but the tele. I thought going bush was to get away from it all...

[Turtle61]

The display thing doesn't sound like much, but you see it every time you change channel, and I became addicted to the tv guide. Saw a mate's STB and couldn't stand the display after first five minutes.


For me the display counts a lot - it was my job to make it look good. When I first started the on-screen display "OSD" (menus, etc) had only 16 colours :eek: with no anti-aliasing so everything looked like Commodore 64 computer (for those who are old enough to remember). Now days the higher spec boxes are running at full, true colour with transparency and animation and whatever you like - but that also comes at a premium. All the colours require huge amounts of memory and processor power which the el-cheapo boxes simply do not have. So memory + fast CPU = $$$.