Subsidy for Dieselgas is a goer

[Redback]

KLR have confirmed that the $2000 subsidy applies to the dieselgas conversion the installation cost has to be paid up front and the $2000 subsidy has to be applied for re-embursment from the government.

A basic installation for a TD5 Discovery is $4200 -$2000 subsidy for one gas tank only, (20l gas tank) and $4900 for 2 tanks, the bonus is that the gas tank is fitted beside the chassis rail instead of in the back cargo section in vehicles not fitted with ACE and SLS.

November is the earliest for installation

Baz.

[Omaroo]

KLR have confirmed that the $2000 subsidy applies to the dieselgas conversion the installation cost has to be paid up front and the $2000 subsidy has to be applied for re-embursment from the government.

A basic installation for a TD5 Discovery is $4200 -$2000 subsidy for one gas tank only, (20l gas tank) and $4900 for 2 tanks, the bonus is that the gas tank is fitted beside the chassis rail instead of in the back cargo section in vehicles not fitted with ACE and SLS.

November is the earliest for installation

Baz.

$4,200 - crikey that's a lot of money Baz

[dobbo]

it'd be good if you could tap it and run a bbq of the tank as well

[Redback]

$4,200 - crikey that's a lot of money Baz

Yep it certainly is, i don't know as yet whether it's worth it, we got a contact number of a guy that has had his TD5 Disco done, and we will quiz him about it to see if the increases are worth the expence of the installation.

Some of the quoted increases seem a bit sus:eek:

Baz.

[Ace]

That seems high, last time someone discussed the dieselgas conversion it was $3000 or is that for a TDi, and the TD5 is dearer? Matt

[dobbo]

Yep it certainly is, i don't know as yet whether it's worth it, we got a contact number of a guy that has had his TD5 Disco done, and we will quiz him about it to see if the increases are worth the expence of the installation.

Some of the quoted increases seem a bit sus:eek:

Baz.

I'd leave it about a year let them work out all the faults on someone elses disco first

[George130]

I was quoted $3800 last year.
I also spoke to a guy at the expo who's 130 was done. He sad he didn't notice the savings as quoted bu did get the power increase. He did say he wasn't looking for economy anyway.

[Redback]

Well listening to the news tonight the government maybe renigging on the subsidy:twisted: not that we were going ahead with the conversion as we think it's a bit costly and really your not saving much more than just upgrading to a 3" exhaust or intercooler or both, at least it won't be as costly to upgrade.

Baz.

[Ace]

Well listening to the news tonight the government maybe renigging on the subsidy:twisted: not that we were going ahead with the conversion as we think it's a bit costly and really your not saving much more than just upgrading to a 3" exhaust or intercooler or both, at least it won't be as costly to upgrade.

Baz.

Well thats a surprise. :eek:

Why not spend the 1.6billion dollars or what ever it was they were going to spend getting people to convert to LPG to lower the excise on fuel instead, or this to obvious and straight forward. :mad:

[Omaroo]

Well listening to the news tonight the government maybe renigging on the

... in reference to diesel fumigation, as such, or general LPG installs?

[QSDT]

Why not spend the 1.6billion dollars or what ever it was they were going to spend getting people to convert to LPG to lower the excise on fuel instead, or this to obvious and straight forward. :mad:

Way to obvious this is the government we are talking about!!

[RoverOne]

I was quoted $3300 for my TDI Defender with a 29 litre gas tank (I think I could be corrected) and as the gas is injected into the deisel on top of the cost to fill the deisel tank $150 when empty I would also have to pay for the gas at another $15 odd dollars or so on top. It is far more practical to put a 2.8 motor in or an Isuzu 3.3 or 4 litre deiel for more grunt.

There is no guarantee of fuel saving (which I doubt any way) & was quoted mimimum of 100,000km to break even on fitting cost, if this is believable, & power increase for what end, I'm quite happy to cruise along at 110kph & off road I get to the top of the hill just as easily as any V8 (I own both so I know).

To me it just does not add up, its been around before & will fade into obscurity again, the only ones guaranteed to win will be KLR.

[Omaroo]

There is no guarantee of fuel saving (which I doubt any way)

Bryce- I was under the impression that because you carry and burn both diesel AND LPG in this scenario, you gained range at least. In addition to some extra oomph it sounds like a nice idea. Well... in theory anyway... I don't think that I'd go ahead with it on the premise that it would save me any fuel overall. I'd most likely be putting the boot in more if anything.:D

[RoverOne]

Bryce- I was under the impression that because you carry and burn both diesel AND LPG in this scenario, you gained range at least. In addition to some extra oomph it sounds like a nice idea. Well... in theory anyway... I don't think that I'd go ahead with it on the premise that it would save me any fuel overall. I'd most likely be putting the boot in more if anything.:D

Chris,

Its a great idea on paper, a fellow club member had it done & his claim has been that originally his Disco returned 9.5 litre per 100 he now gets 6.? litres per 100, I can't remember exact figure 6.3 or 6.4 or something & huge power increase.

His enthusiasm sounded like a paid add from KLR, but still unconvinced to this claim of saving. If true will still take a long time to recoup, although a lot less now if the subsidy goes through.

Another guy in our club had a 4.6 fitted to his RR and claimed as it had more power he used less fuel on a trip, well I proved him wrong, he couldn't use a calculator :D

I would prefer to see a long term converted vehicle with accurate figures before and after before I was convinced, and yes I'm very cynical when it comes to this conversion, which I won't expound on this forum, I may in private though.;)

[Omaroo]

Chris,

I'm very cynical when it comes to this conversion, which I won't expound on this forum, I may in private though.;)

hehe.. sounds like god campfire fodder :D

[Redback]

Chris,

Its a great idea on paper, a fellow club member had it done & his claim has been that originally his Disco returned 9.5 litre per 100 he now gets 6.? litres per 100, I can't remember exact figure 6.3 or 6.4 or something & huge power increase.

His enthusiasm sounded like a paid add from KLR, but still unconvinced to this claim of saving. If true will still take a long time to recoup, although a lot less now if the subsidy goes through.

Another guy in our club had a 4.6 fitted to his RR and claimed as it had more power he used less fuel on a trip, well I proved him wrong, he couldn't use a calculator :D

I would prefer to see a long term converted vehicle with accurate figures before and after before I was convinced, and yes I'm very cynical when it comes to this conversion, which I won't expound on this forum, I may in private though.;)

Going on his original fuel figures i would be a bit sus, they look way over excagurated to me, besides the firgures quoted by Dieselgas don't indicate better economy just increase of power and range.

To me the extra range they quote seems to be the addition of an extra 20 litres of gas you now have, a sort of longrange tank so to speak, but a very expensive longrange tank:eek: and the savings will be because the gas is half the price of diesel, our calculations work out that we would only gain 15% in range and a 20% gain in power, which would increase our range from 740ks to around 860ks, way that against $4200 and it doesn't look that good.

Chris i relistened to the news later on, they were only saying they were not going to convert the government cars to gas not renig on the subsidy, sorry my bad.

Bryce the member in question is he from Newcastle.

Baz.

[edddo]

http://www.dieselgas.com.au/home.htm

for explanation of how the 'economy effect' is calculated. Apparaently the squirt of lpg improves compustion efficiency significantly enough to increase both power and economy. Think of it especially ito dollars per 100km, as they describe. I was tempted last year and was quoted around the 3.8k mark for a tdi. Didnt go ahead because of cost and didnt like position of bottle(s) for off roading.

Suppose for those who were thinking of it, it is now more attractive.

cheers

[RoverOne]

Going on his original fuel figures i would be a bit sus, they look way over excagurated to me, besides the firgures quoted by Dieselgas don't indicate better economy just increase of power and range.

To me the extra range they quote seems to be the addition of an extra 20 litres of gas you now have, a sort of longrange tank so to speak, but a very expensive longrange tank:eek: and the savings will be because the gas is half the price of diesel, our calculations work out that we would only gain 15% in range and a 20% gain in power, which would increase our range from 740ks to around 860ks, way that against $4200 and it doesn't look that good.

Chris i relistened to the news later on, they were only saying they were not going to convert the government cars to gas not renig on the subsidy, sorry my bad.

Bryce the member in question is he from Newcastle.

Baz.

No Baz he is from Beecroft, & his 300TDi figures I don't believe over stated, I have another mate who consistantly gets 8.5 to 8.6 on highway.

I have a leaflet that states above all else a saving on fuel & a bonus of extra power.

If gas is injected at the same time as fuel is used how can that fuel go further as per a long range tank, and when the gas runs out it just operated then on deisel.

If the long term was for extended use why then have truck manufacturers discontinued the use of this system, it artiificialy wears out the engine no matter what spiel & promo material the retailers of this product tell you.

[vnx205]

Why not spend the 1.6billion dollars or what ever it was they were going to spend getting people to convert to LPG to lower the excise on fuel instead, or this to obvious and straight forward.


Two reasons that I can think of:
1. The government often isn't interested in actually solving the problem. All they need to do is to appear to be trying to solve the problem.
2. The second, less cynical reason is that if people convert to LPG, that slightly reduces the country's dependance on oil.
If you assume that the second reason is important, then high fuel prices are a good thing because that makes the conversion to LPG (or some other non oil based fuel) more worthwhile economically.

[Andy_B]

$4200 can get you really set up for biodiesel, plus extra mods on the engine.

Andy

[p38arover]

If the long term was for extended use why then have truck manufacturers discontinued the use of this system, it artiificialy wears out the engine no matter what spiel & promo material the retailers of this product tell you.

One of the blokes on the Aust 4WD Monthly forum has it on his semi and has done more than 500,000km so far with it.

Ron

[Redback]

No Baz he is from Beecroft, & his 300TDi figures I don't believe over stated, I have another mate who consistantly gets 8.5 to 8.6 on highway.

I have a leaflet that states above all else a saving on fuel & a bonus of extra power.

If gas is injected at the same time as fuel is used how can that fuel go further as per a long range tank, and when the gas runs out it just operated then on deisel.

If the long term was for extended use why then have truck manufacturers discontinued the use of this system, it artiificialy wears out the engine no matter what spiel & promo material the retailers of this product tell you.

TDi figures are differant to the TD5, the TDi has a better increase with the Dieselgas conversion over the TD5 as i said the TD5 only gets a 15% increase in range whereas the TDi get over 35% going from 700k a tank to over 1000k a tank.

This is the quote taken from the dieselgas techknowlegy web page.

[Quote]
Range has increased from 700km to over 1000km at these settings. Also note how the power is increased over the whole rev range.
This is the vehicle used in the economy example.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/
This example shows typical results for a small capacity, higher-revving intercooled turbo diesel.[Quote]

What i'm saying is the increase of 15% for the TD5 is only due to the extra gas cylinder for the conversion, giving it an extra 100 odd ks in range.

Good for the TDi but notso good for the TD5:(

[Ace]

TDi figures are differant to the TD5, the TDi has a better increase with the Dieselgas conversion over the TD5 as i said the TD5 only gets a 15% increase in range whereas the TDi get over 35% going from 700k a tank to over 1000k a tank.

This is the quote taken from the dieselgas techknowlegy web page.

[Quote]
Range has increased from 700km to over 1000km at these settings. Also note how the power is increased over the whole rev range.
This is the vehicle used in the economy example.
http://www.dieselgas.com.au/images/defender.jpg
This example shows typical results for a small capacity, higher-revving intercooled turbo diesel.[Quote]

What i'm saying is the increase of 15% for the TD5 is only due to the extra gas cylinder for the conversion, giving it an extra 100 odd ks in range.

Good for the TDi but notso good for the TD5:(

Now that makes more sense, if you were getting an extra 300 odd kilometres on $21 (assuming the 30L of diesel was at 70c/L). For that 30L in diesel (assume cost is $1.45/L) it would cost $43.50. So it is costing you on average $22.50 less per tank in order to cover the cost of the extra say $2000 of the conversion once you got the $2000 subsidy you would nee to fill your tank nearly 90 times, assuming you filled your tank once a week it would take nearly 2 yrs to recover the cost of the conversion, if you fill once a fortnight it would take about 4yrs or so. Is that worth it? Matt

[JDNSW]

I have thought about this for my 110 - but I would not expect to get a significant increase in fuel economy, maybe a small increase, but look at it as a simple way of getting increased power without the complications of a turbo. But even with the subsidy I am not too sure it is worth it, and certainly isn't without the subsidy.
Also not sure where I could put a tank - the obvious places are taken up by the 60l belly tank and the water tank under the drivers side sill, and I don't want to put the tank inside.
John

[LRHybrid100]

the older technology the bigger the gains!!!

LRH

[dobbo]

the older technology the bigger the gains!!!

LRH

More like the newer technology the bigger the risks.

I'd be very very cautious of doing it to a TD5. I had a look at their stand at the Maitland 4wd show earlier this year, every engine they had on show was an old type mechanical diesel no high tech diesels to be found.

[RoverOne]

About twelve months or so ago I actually posted an enquiring about this Deisel Gas conversion, and was quite keen to persue, but after talking to a number of mechanical giants, they talked me out of it, saying it was nothing new but old hat & largely discontinued by trucking people as there were complication on engines at around 180,000km. Not being a technical whiz I bowed to their judgement on passed experience on robust engines long hauling that was not successfull.

[Ace]

About twelve months or so ago I actually posted an enquiring about this Deisel Gas conversion, and was quite keen to persue, but after talking to a number of mechanical giants, they talked me out of it, saying it was nothing new but old hat & largely discontinued by trucking people as there were complication on engines at around 180,000km. Not being a technical whiz I bowed to their judgement on passed experience on robust engines long hauling that was not successfull.

Did they comment on what those problems were? Matt