Can I put the wheels back on my Series 1 after removing the Brake drums?

[jedwards]

Hi Land Rover Series Enthusiasts.
I need to get the brake drums and shoes off my Series 1 to get the drums skimmed and the shoes relined.
I store my vehicle on a 4 post hoist in my garage, but I only have one steel trays, so can only get one axle at a time onto good axle stands. So I was wondering if it would be safe to remove the brake drums and shoes, one wheel at a time, and then put the wheel back on, just for support, until the drums came back.? From a structural point of view, I can see no difference, as the wheel would still be bolted to the same studs, and the only real change is that the brake drums are not there to act as a backing plate.

If it was OK to bolt the wheel directly onto the axle studs without the drums being in place, I would be able to get everything off to Perth Brakes in one trip. The vehicle would just sit on the hoist until the drums and shoes were returned.

All advice appreciated.
regards
Jeff

[Tins]

I can't see a problem with that. You might find there's a little slack or wobble if the nuts run out of thread before they tighten, but maybe not. Still, it's not as if you'll be driving it.... I hope.

[AK83]

I've had my D2 parts shell resting on it's loose wheels for about 6 years now as I've removed the disks ... so I can't see why not too.
D2 isn't going anywhere soon, and when it's time too, I'll sort that out before moving it.
D2 wheel nuts don't thread all the way, like Tins alluded too, you're wheels may sit loosely, but as I remember series wheel nuts can thread right through the studs and possibly push the wheels further back beyond where the drums would allow.
Just make sure that they don't damage anything.
Alternatively if you have one axle suspended, you could use the wheel nuts of that axle to stop the wheels going too far in(only if the wheels would damage any exposed brake parts) by threading those nuts behind the wheels and then use the axles' wheel nuts to keep the wheels up tightly.

[JDNSW]

No problems, as long as you don't accidentally put your foot on the brake. A possible issue is that you will be using a bit of thread on the studs that has not been used for decades, so it might do well to give it a touch with a wire brush.

[jedwards]

Thanks Gentlemen,
I feel a bit of a fool, as soon as I took the wheel and drum off, it was perfectly clear that all would be OK.
So I how have all the drums and shoes off and ready for attention next week. The studs benefited from a light squirt of WD40 so the nuts could go onto the unused threads without difficulty.

All in all, much easier and less traumatic than I had feared.

Thanks for the support and encouragement.
regards
Jeff

[cjc_td5]

Pack up the wheel studs with flat washers to the thickness of the brake drum, so the wheel will seat firmly.

[JDNSW]

I don't think that is worth the effort, as long as its just sitting still. And even if being moved I would not bother - the hub has a flat surface, and the weight is carried on the shoulder of the nuts, same as if the drum is there.

[cjc_td5]

I don't think that is worth the effort, as long as its just sitting still. And even if being moved I would not bother - the hub has a flat surface, and the weight is carried on the shoulder of the nuts, same as if the drum is there.I had assumed that the thread on the stud would bottom out before the nut takes up on the wheel, so everything would be flopping about....

You would only need to pack out three studs.

[JDNSW]

The studs are screwed into the hub. This is certainly not an problem, I have a box trailer with Series 2 hubs and wheels and no brake drums - and no issues over the last 25years (done nearly 1000km in the last month).

[5380]

I don't think that is worth the effort, as long as its just sitting still. And even if being moved I would not bother - the hub has a flat surface, and the weight is carried on the shoulder of the nuts, same as if the drum is there.

John,

I agree, there shouldn't been any problem if it the 80 isn't moved around too much. The studs are not really designed to carry the weight of the vehicle in this situation, so damage to the hubs and studs is very likely if the vehicle is moved much with no clamping force being applied. Please don't take this technical ramble as a safety lecture or criticism in any shape or form.
Strangely enough, normally the wheel studs don't carry much of the weight of the vehicle if the nuts are correctly tightened. The circular bosses on the hubs are a snug fit in the wheel centres to locate them and keep them concentric with the hubs. The wheel studs and nuts clamp the wheel horizontally to the face of the brake drum which transmits the drive from the hub to the wheel. The studs take the side forces of cornering and clamping.The tapers in the wheel stud holes and the nuts also locate the wheel correctly and aid in keep the nuts fron undoing. So technically, the hubs and brake drum faces support the vertical loads of unsprung mass of the vehicle, not the studs! That's why it's so important to ensure that the whel nuts are properly tensioned. My early Classic Range Rover with factory alloy wheels had massive locating bosses on the hubs, tight sockets and massive mating faces in the centres that made it a real a pain to remove a wheel even when the nuts were removed! I asked a Land Rover engineer about it and he explained the physics to me. Those Land Rover engineers were clever buggers! I hope this is of interest. Cheers, Mike 5380

[JDNSW]

1. I think you may be confusing the setup on Series Landrovers with that on "post classic" Landrovers where there really is a tight fit of the wheel centre on the hub. The fit of the Series wheel on the hub is not all that tight, and carries no load in normal circumstances.

2. With or without drums in place, the wheel is still up against a flat surface, whether the drum or the hub, and the section of the hub that the drum fits is actually slightly larger in diameter than the part the wheel normally fits on. Certainly the hub face is smaller than the drum face, but the area of contact is still larger than for most contemporary similar vehicles.

3. There is a good reason Rover used a PCD larger in diameter than most contemporaries, and studs larger than any comparable vehicles. The studs carry much of the load.

[5380]

1. I think you may be confusing the setup on Series Landrovers with that on "post classic" Landrovers where there really is a tight fit of the wheel centre on the hub. The fit of the Series wheel on the hub is not all that tight, and carries no load in normal circumstances.

2. With or without drums in place, the wheel is still up against a flat surface, whether the drum or the hub, and the section of the hub that the drum fits is actually slightly larger in diameter than the part the wheel normally fits on. Certainly the hub face is smaller than the drum face, but the area of contact is still larger than for most contemporary similar vehicles.

3. There is a good reason Rover used a PCD larger in diameter than most contemporaries, and studs larger than any comparable vehicles. The studs carry much of the load.


Exactly right John. I've always admired the massively strong construction of Land Rover running gear. As you say, on a Series One, the hub centre is only designed to keep the wheel centralised until the wheel is clamped up hard aginst the flat face of the drum/hub. The larger diameter 91/16" (14.3mm) studs and hefty nuts can safely be firmly tensioned to provide a much stronger clamping force to clamp the substantial wheel centre securely to the brake drum face compared to "ordinary" vehicles.
Even on the later "post classic" models the centre boss is again only designed to centre the alloy wheel, but is a lot heftier because the tubular wheel nuts don't have any taper on the end or a tapered seat in the wheel to locate the wheel accuratley as in the Series Land Rovers.
If the wheel nuts are correctly tensioned, the studs are only withstanding a horizontal load clamping the wheel centre firmly against the drum, hub and axle which becomes in effect , a single unit that carries the vertical load and driving/ braking torque..
It's the same set up as the drive flanges on the front and rear universal shafts. The 3/8" bolts don't transmit the driving tourque, the friction of the securely clamped together mating faces do all the work. Fascinating engineering! Cheers, Mike.

[LR1953]

Friends, apols for chiming in 3 weeks too late. Remember Jeff's '53 80" has live rear axles. The roadwheels don't bolt to the hubs, they bolt to the integral axle drive flanges. So Jeff can safely fit his roadwheels up to the drive flanges provided they don't interfere with brake lines etc.
As a matter of practice I always smear a little Coppercoat or similar anti-seize compound on the threads before fitting the nuts. It makes it so much easier getting them off down the track after you've been sloshing around in the mud and wet grass for a few years.
Cheers, Rob S