Alternative Email Providers Not the myopic or the one that ogles

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

Just wondering what other email providers people on this forum use that does not include either the myopic or the one that ogles? Yes, I shut my computer down and went out for a couple of hours. Started the email provider up and got the message that I cannot attach a file to a new email. Try again later. The same system where I have not been able to use the mouse buttons to copy, cut or paste and have to use Ctrl A, Ctrl C, or Ctrl X or Ctrl V because of a compatibility issue.

Email providers that do not take minutes letting some algorithm trace its way through the whole email system before it finally opens your messages. An email provider that does not crap itself if you have the sheer audacity to use an Adblocker from another source. To eliminate this, the parent email provider starts adding conflicts within the email system. Ones that magically disappear when you buy the email provider's own version of what another company provides as free adblocking software.

I am sick of not being able to exercise my rights as a consumer and different companies practising what boils down to anti-competitive behaviour by creating compatibility bugs that they make no attempt to fix. Mostly because they have deliberately created these compatibility bugs themselves.

To cite the late Peter Finch in his role in The Network - I’m As Mad As Hell and I’m Not Gonna Take This Anymore! Accessed 8th of February 2024 from, I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore! Speech from Network (1976) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwMVMbmQBug)

Sod it, I will even pay for a decent email provider if they do not practice the dirty deeds mentioned above. So what and who provide the alternative email services.

Now, go to the window and yell ....

Kind regards
Lionel

[disco gazza]

Hi Lionel,
I've been using Thunderbird(Mozilla) for years now and it I find that its very good. Updates pretty regularly too.
I have other well known email providers, but there for the rubbish you get from them and not important stuff.

cheers
DG

[Tombie]

Hi Lionel,
I've been using Thunderbird(Mozilla) for years now and it I find that its very good. Updates pretty regularly too.
I have other well known email providers, but there for the rubbish you get from them and not important stuff.

cheers
DG

Thunderbird is a mail reader, not a mail server.

He will still need a server.


Lionel, why not just purchased your own domain. (Tax claim for work) and run your own?

[disco gazza]

Sorry Lionel, I misread the question you asked.

DG

[WhiteD3]

I've been using my MS account as a secondary email for years with no problem. "live.com.au" but I think new accounts are outlook.com

[simonmelb]

You could try one of the free or subscription very secure ones like Tutanota or Protonmail?:

Top 5 Alternatives to Tutanota (February 2024) - SaaSworthy.com (https://www.saasworthy.com/product-alternative/2991/tutanota)

Im ok with Gmail as it’s spam filtering is so good.

Cheers
Simon

[AK83]

Thunderbird is a mail reader, not a mail server.

He will still need a server.


....

This was my initial reaction too.
Lionel claims email provider, that is, in relation to an email address ... but then Lionel has another thread complaining about Outlook, which is an email client.

I have a suspicion Lionel has confused his terminology, and may in fact be looking at a clent program(ie. like Thunderbird, or whatever) as an alternative to Outlook.

[BradC]

I've run ours locally for years, but I've heard from a number of different directions that fastmail.com is pretty good for outsourced E-mail.

As for clients, I've used Mozilla/Thunderbird for the last 20 or more years (Eudora on Win95 before that). We have one associate who insists on Outlook, and it is by far the most problematic client we run.

[Lionelgee]

This was my initial reaction too.
Lionel claims email provider, that is, in relation to an email address ... but then Lionel has another thread complaining about Outlook, which is an email client.

I have a suspicion Lionel has confused his terminology, and may in fact be looking at a clent program(ie. like Thunderbird, or whatever) as an alternative to Outlook.


Hello AK83 and Tombie,
Lionel just wants something that [insert rude words here] works!!!! Also, something that is reliable and accepts really advanced functions like being able to copy, cut and paste within an email document using a mouse. Plus, another really advanced feature - being able to attach a document to an email.

Now, wait for it ... being able to press 'Send' and the email gets sent on its way through the ether and magically arrives at someone else's, or perhaps even my own email address.

Also, remember Lionel identifies as a semi-luddite. I am not offay with the correct forms of computer parlance. If there was some way that I could isolate doubtlook within my computer and not damage any other component or function within said computer, I would home-in on the spot where doubtlook lives and line up the biggest hammer I own. Then I would proceed to vent my frustrations upon that particular spot. Did I mention something about 'Luddite' before?

[bigsmile1]

Kind regards
Lionel

[TonyC]

I've used Fastmail for years, with no complaints.

I use the Fastmail app on my tablet and phone, and the web interface works well if I need it anywhere else.

That said I would not be considered a power user of anything IT related.

Tony

[Tins]

Mail? [bigwhistle]

[Lionelgee]

Mail? [bigwhistle]

Hello Tins,

Yes, snail mail. I was going to suggest homing pigeons. However, my flock of them have long since flown the coop.

Kind regards
Lionel

[AK83]

.....

Now, wait for it ... being able to press 'Send' and the email gets sent on its way through the ether and magically arrives at someone else's, or perhaps even my own email address.

....

Kind regards
Lionel

[biggrin]

Yep, sounds to me like Discogazza got it right too(and what I thought you were asking about)

From one luddite to another (semi) luddite ...

Email provider = the actual email company entity you choose to make your email address.
ie. lionel at gmail dot com, or lionel at email provider dot com ... etc.

The 'at blahblah dot com' section of the email address you use is the provider.

eg. lets assume you are with telstra for your internet connectivity. Telstra provides you with a set number of email addresses for that internet service.

Not all internet providers do so tho. I used to be with optus, but recently changed to TPG.
Optus used to allocate me 5 email addresses when with them. All gone now as I've rid myself of them.

TPG on the other hand, don't provide email addresses for me to use.
I have gmail, hotmail and others. My partner still uses yahoo!(wow! I thought they shut up shop 20 years ago .. [bigrolf]

The point above is that email provider is the company used for the email address. Many free ones out there.

Email client is the software interface that gives you easy(debatable) access to your email addresses.

In Windows world, the two most commonly used email clients used in the world are Outlook and Thunderbird. You don't actually need an email client for most if not all email addresses.
As already said elsewhere in the thread, you can just use a web interface.

I've personally used Thunderbird pretty much forever. I hate Outlook.

so for my hotmail address, I usually access via Thunderbird, but dont' need it. I can access it via a web browser.
Major difference with using a client and web based is that you kind of can't really archive all that much on the web so easily(you can but not as easily as you can with an email client).

So if you need archival ease then the client based method is better. I have emails archived for many years, and they take up about 2.5Gb of disk space.

One thing to note about switching from one email client to another is the ease and surety of switching from one to another is not guaranteed.

eg. converting my years of thunderbird emails collected to work 'properly' in outlook is hit and miss.
Generally going from archived Outlook emails to thunderbird has been more hit than miss.
In effect, once you decide on one system, it's best to stick with it.

[Lionelgee]

[biggrin]

Yep, sounds to me like Discogazza got it right too(and what I thought you were asking about)

From one luddite to another (semi) luddite ...

Email provider = the actual email company entity you choose to make your email address.
ie. lionel at gmail dot com, or lionel at email provider dot com ... etc.

The 'at blahblah dot com' section of the email address you use is the provider.

eg. lets assume you are with telstra for your internet connectivity. Telstra provides you with a set number of email addresses for that internet service.

Not all internet providers do so tho. I used to be with optus, but recently changed to TPG.
Optus used to allocate me 5 email addresses when with them. All gone now as I've rid myself of them.

TPG on the other hand, don't provide email addresses for me to use.
I have gmail, hotmail and others. My partner still uses yahoo!(wow! I thought they shut up shop 20 years ago .. [bigrolf]

The point above is that email provider is the company used for the email address. Many free ones out there.

Email client is the software interface that gives you easy(debatable) access to your email addresses.

In Windows world, the two most commonly used email clients used in the world are Outlook and Thunderbird. You don't actually need an email client for most if not all email addresses.
As already said elsewhere in the thread, you can just use a web interface.

I've personally used Thunderbird pretty much forever. I hate Outlook.

so for my hotmail address, I usually access via Thunderbird, but dont' need it. I can access it via a web browser.
Major difference with using a client and web based is that you kind of can't really archive all that much on the web so easily(you can but not as easily as you can with an email client).

So if you need archival ease then the client based method is better. I have emails archived for many years, and they take up about 2.5Gb of disk space.

One thing to note about switching from one email client to another is the ease and surety of switching from one to another is not guaranteed.

eg. converting my years of thunderbird emails collected to work 'properly' in outlook is hit and miss.
Generally going from archived Outlook emails to thunderbird has been more hit than miss.
In effect, once you decide on one system, it's best to stick with it.


Hello Discogazza,

Thank you for your detailed replies.

My email address looks like this ... Lionelxxx@hotmail.com Since it was taken over I access my @hotmail.com emails via doubtlook. Well okay, Microsoft Outlook. I did try the very good instructions given by and I selected 'repair'. Unfortunately it did not repair. I even tried going through the 'shell' option and typed in the good old DOS prompt that an IT post suggested. Still no go.

Back in the olden days, I would have just gone to the software CD and run a new installation of Outlook. But of course that was when you only paid once for a bit of software and could opt to buy software on CDs or USBs.

I am visiting one of my sons in a couple of weeks. They live interstate and they studied IT and Computers for their degree. Plus they have remained working in that field. I reckon it is time for my laptop to have a bit of a tune and a tweak.

Kind regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Thunderbird is a mail reader, not a mail server.

He will still need a server.


Lionel, why not just purchased your own domain. (Tax claim for work) and run your own?

Hello Tombie,

I have one. Due to my technological illiteracy I do not know how to link to it? I also have a Squarespace webpage that I am working on. Also a Hostinger thingo. Ergo, the opportunity for my very own email identity without @hotmail.

In the meantime I have learnt that just because I am on the Autism spectrum does not mean I am good with computers and their arcane arts. Also, that attempting to watch YouTube clips about what to do in Squarespace and then carrying out the task immediately afterwards just does not work. My hardcopy ... you know 'book' .. hold it in your hands and read it version of Squarespace for Dummies has arrived in the post.

Now, my level of ignorance in asking the next question might send some people over the edge... So brace yourselves. Even if I did set up the Hostinger thingo could I use it to access my Lionelxxxx @hotmail.com email through it? You know open my hotmail messages, copy and paste using a mouse, attached documents to emails and actually send them to people.

My main concern is that I can read my emails and people can send me emails - I just cannot Send emails or while sending them put attachments to them.

I have a Gmail account so I can communicate with the outside world via email. I can even cut, copy and paste using mouse strokes and I can attach files and Send emails. So all is not lost.

I just dislike Google from their early days where their algorithm collected data and used that for their and other people's marketing. You know I think it is called data protection - or lack thereof. Google's search engine is like a sawn-off shotgun and just finds so much useless crap. So I do not use it. My most frequently used Google product is Maps. Of course my Android phone is Google rich - which is pretty much unavoidable - despite the phone being a Samsung.

I have worked with organisations and sectors that were Apple specific and I just found all the hype about 'user-friendliness' was good marketing. The reality proved otherwise. So - going away from Microsoft to Apple is not an option. My work phone is an Iphone and it not my favourite bit of tech.

What happened to just good old hammers where every thing got fixed by just a couple of whacks.

Kind regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Sorry Lionel, I misread the question you asked.

DG



Hello Disco Gazza,

No worries - I don't really know the correct words to utilise to explain the situation of what is happening with 'New' emails not being able activate different aspects of their functionality.

The New emails just do not work and online suggestions from other forums that other people have used to solve their problems do not seem capable of solving mine. The type of internet search where I copied error message and dumped it into a search engine along with the identification of Microsoft Outlook 2024.

Being a semi-Luddite I just know that a software program is designed to work. Therefore, it should work. If it does not work then a FB Hammer is reached for. 'Simples'

Kind regards
Lionel

[AK83]

OK, hotmail is good(to know, not hotmail itself is good!)

So go to live.com (https://login.live.com/) login page and try to log in from there.

Now that we know, your email provider is hotmail or microsoft.
And for further word correctness, your email client is outlook.

I'm pretty sure then what's happened is same as myself.
Outlook itself is probably working no worries. Repairing it was a wasted effort. I don't think Outlook is the problem.
But you need to confirm this first by logging in to live.com with your browser. you just need your email address and your password.
Assuming that you have gone to live log in, and into your email account you should by default see your email page.
Over on the far left column you should see the envelope symbol for email, and a calendar under that, etc. if not already, highlight the envelope.

188869

if you end up logging in to your hotmail account, then look for the gear wheel up near the top right corner(one red arrow).
Hit that and then a new box will pop up.
You want to look for the sync email section, and click that(other red arrow).
What happened to mine randomly and for no known reason after working fine for many years, MS changed this setting and it was NOT activated suddenly one day. I can't remember when, but it was a while back and I had no access to hotmail via Thunderbird(or in your case Outlook).
Even tho I used the IMAP setting, doesn't really matter if you use IMAP or POP, this setting allows the PC based software to access the hotmail account from the net.
So make sure that the area here is set to the blue colour to allow devices and apps to use POP if it isn't already set.

Remember outlook and thunderbird are the email clients. Calendar clients, contacts clients, email software .. whatever you want to call them, they do same/similar stuff.
By logging into hotmail via your browser, doesn't matter if it's Edge or Firefox or Chrome ... in that instance you are checking email via webmail.

If this setting was already set to on(blue), then I got no idea whats gone wrong with your outlook software. Could be a connectivity issue.
Do you have any other email addresses that you do/don't use?

eg. as said before, if you have an internet connection then high chance that you have a email address or two provided by one of the internet providers. But they don't all do this(like TPG). Telstra and Optus does tho.
Outlook can access these emails too.

hope that helps.

[Tins]

Even tho I used the IMAP setting, doesn't really matter if you use IMAP or POP,

I appreciate you are working within contextual parameters here, but, just for clarity, oh yes it does. As I'm sure you know, but perhaps Lionel doesn't, the principal difference is that POP downloads the email to ONE device and deletes it from the server, so if the device goes down or is lost, so is the email. IMAP downloads to any device that legitimately requests it and leaves it on the server, so it is available across devices, and indeed platforms, until deleted by the recipient. The big mobs such as GMail and iCloud are obviously IMAP, and so would be lionel123@hisowndomain.com. ISPs typically provide POP, if they provide anything at all. POP is destined for the rubbish bin of history. Hopefully.

Like I said, I'm sure you know all that.

[Lionelgee]

I appreciate you are working within contextual parameters here, but, just for clarity, oh yes it does. As I'm sure you know, but perhaps Lionel doesn't, the principal difference is that POP downloads the email to ONE device and deletes it from the server, so if the device goes down or is lost, so is the email. IMAP downloads to any device that legitimately requests it and leaves it on the server, so it is available across devices, and indeed platforms, until deleted by the recipient. The big mobs such as GMail and iCloud are obviously IMAP, and so would be lionel123@hisowndomain.com. ISPs typically provide POP, if they provide anything at all. POP is destined for the rubbish bin of history. Hopefully.

Like I said, I'm sure you know all that.

Hello Tins & AK83,

While I greatly appreciate both your insight and suggestions I have to wonder something. Are youse guys even writing English? POP is the sound that happens when corks get taken out of bottles. IMAP is that Apple's version of mapping? Internet Service Provider (ISP) I know that one.

Off I go to the internet to do some searching in the attempt to make up the obvious short fall I have in what should be a basic knowledge base about IT. My children would be so proud of my levels of computer ignorance and they would be cringing if they read this.

I will follow the advice given after I print it out and can hold it in my hand, while I tap at keys as per the directions. Thank you for your collective patience.

This is a classic case of what Latour describes as blackboxing. Bruno Latour* defines blackboxing as the way scientific and technical work is made invisible by its own success. When a machine runs efficiently, when a matter of fact is settled, one need focus only on its inputs and outputs and not on its internal complexity. Thus, paradoxically, the more science and technology succeed, the more opaque and obscure they become. *Bruno Latour (1999). Pandora's hope: essays on the reality of science studies. Cambridge, Massachusetts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge,_Massachusetts): Harvard University Press (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard_University_Press). p. 304.


Kind regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Okay....

Point of Presence (POP) - NETWORK ENCYCLOPEDIA
In the context of internet service providers (ISPs), a PoP often serves as an access point or a physical location where the ISP connects to the internet, allowing users to interface with the web. Traditionally, a PoP houses servers, switches, routers, and digital/analog call aggregators.
Accessed 10/2/24 from, Point of Presence (POP) - NETWORK ENCYCLOPEDIA

What is IMAP (Internet Message Access Protocol)? - TechTarget
What is IMAP (Internet Message Access Protocol)? (https://www.techtarget.com/whatis/definition/IMAP-Internet-Message-Access-Protocol)
Internet Message Access Protocol, or IMAP, is a standard email retrieval (incoming) protocol. It stores email messages on a mail server and enables the recipient to view and manipulate them as though they were stored locally on their device (s).
Accessed 10/2/24 from, What is IMAP (Internet Message Access Protocol)? (https://www.techtarget.com/whatis/definition/IMAP-Internet-Message-Access-Protocol)

[Lionelgee]

Hello Arthur,

Well, you were 100 percent correct. I slid across the radio-button identified by your second arrow and 'bingo'. I can now send emails and send emails with attachments in place.

Thank you for including the screen shot. That helped me tremendously.

I use Mozilla Firefox as my access point to the internet. I have attached a screenshot of what my main page looks like when I access the internet. I click on the shortcut to access my 'hotmail' emails.

Is there a more efficient way of accessing emails? As I identify as a researcher the first task I usually do on the internet is to do an internet search. Hence my main page starting on Dogpile.

Thank you Tins and Arthur for your prolonged patience as you attempted to guide me through my IT ignorance. Full kudos to you both, and the other contributors to this thread.

Was the change in my access to being able to send emails and add attachments attributable to some aspect of Microsoft Outlook just changing setting because they felt like it? It wasn't me accidentally pressing a wrong button without knowing that I had done so?

Kind regards
Lionel

[Blknight.aus]

Ok so I'm well confused by the first post.....

To me it sounds like theres an issue with your client side, I'm exclusively on Gmail and I have none of the issues you seem to be showing when I access it through any of my web browsers on any of my devices or Operating systems.

The issues you're describing sound like the issues I have when I'm trying to browse through youtube or other sites that rely on forced online advertising for revenue while my adblockers are on, they cause my Chrome and Firefox browsers to have conniptions.


I'd suggest that the issues you're having are client side (your computer) and not on the email server itself.

If the planets align, If I manage to free up some time on the run I'm doing up to QLD next week I'll drop in for a visit.

[Blknight.aus]

Was the change in my access to being able to send emails and add attachments attributable to some aspect of Microsoft Outlook just changing setting because they felt like it? It wasn't me accidentally pressing a wrong button without knowing that I had done so?

Kind regards
Lionel

Be warey of software updates.

When your browser, OS or in some instances email client updates some settings get reset to their default (more secure) settings you then have to go back and set them to the more open settings. Usually you get some kind of a warning in the upgrade notes if this can have happened. I get it every time I upgrade my chome and adblocker.

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

Being the optimist that I am - I decided to see if the fix also carried across to being able to use the mouse right click to 'paste' into my emails. I noticed that when brushed the cobwebs off my @gmail account I could use a right button mouse click to both copy and paste.

I have conducted internet searches using the following keywords... "outlook not pasting mouse right click new email". While there are various 'solutions' posted online none of their descriptions of screens and prompts appearing seem to match mine.

Can Hotmail be opened without using Outlook?

I found the definitions for POP and IMap and ISP I did read them. However, if I was tested on what software does what I would not be confident on answering questions correctly.

The internet connection is via Telstra.
My access to the internet is via Mozilla Firefox.
To access my hotmail emails I am using Outlook.

I am semi confident that Telstra is my ISP

In regards which is the POP and which of the above is the IMap is something I am lacking confidence in coming close to answering correctly.

I am now off to design a commercial wellbeing program that I will be presenting to an audience in March. These are things that I do feel confident in doing. Stick with your strengths I suppose! While I am all for making your weakness your strengths I reckon I have to select some greener pastures to re-bolster my level of confidence again.

Again, thank you Arthur, Tins for your patience and tolerance. I greatly appreciate it.

The irony of this is all is that part of the wellbeing program is a competence/confidence/self and wellbeing cycle. Where individuals who through the results of an accident or health condition can no longer work in their chosen vocation need to find ways to establish a new competence/confidence cycle. This is especially important when the individual's sense of identity is based off their vocation. Where the individual's life becomes clearly demarcated into a before/after what is a life-changing event.

IT does not currently bolster my competence/confidence cycle!

Kind regards
Lionel

[AK83]

Ok so I'm well confused by the first post.....

To me it sounds like theres an issue with your client side, I'm exclusively on Gmail and I have none of the issues you seem to be showing when I access it through any of my web browsers on any of my devices or Operating systems.

The issues you're describing sound like the issues I have when I'm trying to browse through youtube or other sites that rely on forced online advertising for revenue while my adblockers are on, they cause my Chrome and Firefox browsers to have conniptions.


I'd suggest that the issues you're having are client side (your computer) and not on the email server itself.

If the planets align, If I manage to free up some time on the run I'm doing up to QLD next week I'll drop in for a visit.

Nah. It's a MS issue with whatever their new settings were changed too. I had the same issue, only with hotmail for a few months(maybe since Dec .. but not any of my other accounts(gmail and optus).
So if software was the issue, it would have been a global issue, not a selective one.
Looks like Lionel changed the outlook/live/hotmail setting and can now get hsi emails via outlook on the PC now anyhow.


I appreciate you are working within contextual parameters here, but, just for clarity, oh yes it does. As I'm sure you know, but perhaps Lionel doesn't, the principal difference is that POP downloads the email to ONE device and deletes it from the server, so if the device goes down or is lost, so is the email.....


Can do, but not specifically.
I used to set Tbird to not delete messages off the server if I delete them in Tbird. (changed now)
IMAP sees the emails as if you were viewing web based style.

I don't know if Outlook can be set to only delete emails locally(and not affect them at the server side, that is) I suspect it should be able too.

Most of my deleted emails are usually rubbish. Not junk specifically just not worth keeping .. so I set Tbird to delete emails when I delete them.
Note tho that it doesn't necessarily remove them if you don't want. It can just be moved to the trash .. or it can be permanently deleted.

Only downside of 'archiving' is that with POP(that I use) is once downloaded and removed off the server(to maintain some semblance of space) .. if I ever want to refer back to an email for whatever reason from a long time ago via another device obviously can't be done.
Very rare, but has happened to me. Not worth the worry tho, and in my instance not critical.
I rarely check emails without using PC. if I had too via mobile device, I just read what the contents are/were but leave so I can save/archive when back home on the PC.

@ Lionel. I doubt that the issue you had was due to Outlook. I don't use outlook, noting that I use Thunderbird, and had the same issue with hotmail too!
So it's a server side change in the live login server running your hotmail account. I don't have a .live or .outlook type email to have seen if they were also affected. Hotmail is a service of days gone by, not many folks use it any more for the more modern alternatives available.
When I searched the issue basically zero problems came up, but some tibits of info about the POP/sync setting came up and I checked mine too ... and as you found this is the issue(for hotmail).

[Lionelgee]

Be warey of software updates.

When your browser, OS or in some instances email client updates some settings get reset to their default (more secure) settings you then have to go back and set them to the more open settings. Usually you get some kind of a warning in the upgrade notes if this can have happened. I get it every time I upgrade my chome and adblocker.

Hello Dave,

Thanks to Arthur's step by step directions there was a setting in synchronising that was turned off deep within the bowels of the system. After I followed Arthur's instructions and I slid the button across to the right and activated synchronisation, I was able to attach emails and send them again.

When will you be visiting Bundaberg? It would be great to catch-up with you again. Its been a fair while since you stayed at the Nielson Park caravan grounds.

Kind regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

So the take home message of this thread is that Hotmail itself is archaic. How I should commence weaning off my Contact list from Hotmail and I should introduce them to a new email system.

Now to find a email provider that also goes nowhere near Outlook or Google.

My first email provider was ozemail. Where Anzwers was back then the search engine. That is going back in time a fair bit now!

Kind regards
Lionel

[Tins]

Hello Tins & AK83,

IMAP is that Apple's version of mapping?

Very droll, Lionel...

IMAP, as your research has now told you, has nothing to do with , although I would contend that iCloud makes better use of it than most.

Over time I have used as email clients Thunderbird, Outlook ( before Office became a subscription and I ditched the whole thing for 's free alternatives ), Postbox and even Eudora. I always come back to Mail, even for my Gmail account. Of course, as a self confessed Luddite, that option is closed to you....😆

But, it's all what you are used to, I guess. I despise goggle, even though I maintain an old Gmail account for certain things, and thus cannot have an Android phone, even though I think Samsung make excellent phones. Microsoft drove me away with the whole ME/2000/XP debacle. And they expected me to pay for that dross. Sure, XP worked out OK in the end, and 7 was fine, but 8 was awful, 10 tried to be an OS for everything and fails at all of it IMO, and 11.... nuff said. I have to have Windows available, mainly to keep my Nanocom functioning. I wish I'd kept my ISO for 7 so I could go back to it. My Mac runs the latest macOS, and I haven't paid for an OS update or complete rework since I think Lion, OS/X 10.7, way back in 2011. Having to pay MS for Win11 is to me totally ridiculous. Like I said, what you are used to.

I also have Linux Mint running here on an old iMac, but I'm not sure why. I'm a 70 yo ADD sufferer ( no H in my world ), so that sort of geekery is beyond me really.

As for browsers, well my aforementioned aversion the the G thing precludes Chrome.  makes big claims for Safari, but I haven't experienced any of them for a few years now. Firefox works. But I choose Brave, for now. Chrome users would feel familiar with it, except for the total lack of intrusions and ads which Chrome is known for. Even YT seems to be unable to get past the adblock nature of it.

[Lionelgee]

Hello Tins,

I do not mind using any bit of software, on the proviso that:

it does what it is supposed to
they do not distribute my personal data to any marketplaces
they do not insist on cookies that have a very restricted range of choices. Especially where they do not lead me to a place where I can block any links to data sharing with a range of unknown markets
do not exercise anticompetitive behaviours
do not dupe the market that their product is superior and is the 'industry standard'. Therefore, you will be seen as being anachronistic and subsequently lacking professionalism if you do not join their industry standard club. Great promotional ability built on less than spectacular user-friendliness. Hey, they are they are the industry standard though. People must be seen to be within the 'in crowd' after all! What utter dupes!
If there are software upgrades it adds better features that make real improvements. Not retrograde steps made just for the sake of a perceived need for change - and higher subscription rates.
Provide support for the life of the software user's choice to use that product. Not the company setting strict dates for when that version of software will no longer be supported.
The company does not intentionally create 'bugs' that means a company that has the sheer audacity to produce free software clashes with their paid for software. Where the bugs will be instantly removed if you buy their version of the software.


Yes, I must live in an alternate reality.

Kind regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Very droll, Lionel...

IMAP, as your research has now told you, has nothing to do with , although I would contend that iCloud makes better use of it than most.

Hello Tins,

Yes, clap - clap. I totally accept your notification that I was being droll. Being droll seems to be a dying art. More is the pity. Tins, I doff my cap to you!

Kind regards
Lionel

[Tins]

Hello Tins,

Yes, clap - clap. I totally accept your notification that I was being droll. Being droll seems to be a dying art. More is the pity. Tins, I doff my cap to you!

Kind regards
Lionel

When all else fails, a sense of humour becomes more valued.

[Ferret]

Okay....

Point of Presence (POP) - NETWORK ENCYCLOPEDIA
In the context of internet service providers....

At the risk of injecting further confusion into an area where someone is clearly struggling with terminology .... POP in the context of email means 'Post Office Protocol'.

If you want to understand the difference between the two email system (POP and IMAP) and there implications (if any) for your particular usage then I suggest you do your own reading to get it clear in your head.

Of course if you do want to do some basic reading etc. you need the know the correct meaning of the acronym in the first place, otherwise you will be doing reading about 'Point of Presence' and wondering wtf has this got to do with me.