Newbie type query for the tuners..

[Tins]

My experience with tuning has been with carburoosters, often Webers or SUs, or mechanical injection diesels. My TD5 experience is only really driving one. Still, suck squeeze bang blow, right? In the right quantities, right order, at the right time and the engine runs.

However, while I have a Nanocom which is thankfully working properly now, the whole thing is a different language to me. Things like lookup tables are meaningless.

My D2 is a stock 10P auto, other than allegedly being "chipped" by Ritters 20+ years ago. Short of removing and opening the ECU to see, can I use the Nano to see if a; it is chipped, and b; if that is a good map? If I can get a SD card formatted correctly would a .csv give this info, and is there a particular drive cycle required to get meaningful data? Or, is there a 101 I can use to find this out for myself? I would like to learn.

TIA

[RRT]

Have a look at this site for some background on the TD5 programming etc. - DiscoTD5.com | Discovery 2 Td5 ECU Tech and Tuning (https://discotd5.com)

By the way, the chip can be replaced on the 10P but to program it with the Nanocom, it requires the later ECU with a NNN box

Step by step guide for swapping from MSB to NNN ECU’s TD5 (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2-a/272181-step-step-guide-swapping-msb-nnn-ecu-s-td5.html)

[shack]

Tins,

Most of the MSB remaps are very similar if not the same.

Unless the tuner has changed fuel tune or variant tune name, you cannot get any realistic info on what is installed.

A CSV file will not help.

After checking the versions of fuel tune and variant tune with the nanocom, you could pull the ECU out and check the part number on the end, then go online and find a full map list for all MSB ECUs, then see if yours matches what is listed, if it doesn't you most likely have a remap.

If it does match, you may STILL have a remap.

The only way to know for sure is to open in and see if it is socketed or not.

Nanocom cannot download and save a map from on MSB ECU on the SD card.

I can give you several more options, but they all require the cover coming off.

And the full procedure would end with the chip being removed and read, only then will you know what the tune is, and how good it is or isn't.

You know the old saying about roads and Rome?

For anyone else wondering about NNN vs MSB.

NNN is by far the easiest and smoothest way to remap (depending on the tuner!)

MSB is by far the cheapest, but whether the tuner can handle remapping the older style units properly will be the sticking point.

And if a mistake is made on the tune, it requires a new chip to be sent.

Here's a bit of blunt honesty...I currently have 2 MSB tunes I need to redo.. I messed up 1 setting,(I forgot my test mule was somewhat electronically modified!) it's not a deal breaker and they both go well, but I've now got to send out another chip and the owner has to install.

No charge for them, but it's still a pain.

If it was NNN I could fix it in 10 minutes and email it out.

But of course NNN ECU purchase comes @ anywhere between $550 and $1200, depending on what is required


Cheers

[Tins]

Thanks. This helps a lot. I have no problem popping the cover off, as I have done so before to check if the river of oil from the injector harness had got inside. Also, I could probably remove and replace the chip, if it is indeed socketed. I will get the number off the ECU and have a look. But, I guess the whole remove, send away ( I'm not buying a chip reader/programmer just for this ) get back and reinstall means the car is off the road.
I just might know someone with a NNN... Am I correct in assuming that if I can get one for an auto it would work, with the necessary programming of course, or do I need 10P specific as well?

[shack]

There are several versions of NNN ECU.

But basically for an auto, you just need one that ends in 30.

The manuals end in 20.

There is one outlier, it ends in 50, but if you know what your are doing, can be used in any manual application, but may require some small firmware changes.

A new chip for an MSB would likely be posted out to you, so the car wouldn't be off the road, unless it's not socketed.

[Tins]

Tins,


After checking the versions of fuel tune and variant tune with the nanocom, you could pull the ECU out and check the part number on the end, then go online and find a full map list for all MSB ECUs, then see if yours matches what is listed, if it doesn't you most likely have a remap.



Perhaps I need to improve my search skills, can't find a resource for that. Nearest I got was DiscoTD5.com

[johnp38]

Perhaps I need to improve my search skills, can't find a resource for that. Nearest I got was DiscoTD5.com

Storm Tuning - How to "chip" a TD5 MSB ECU. We often get asked if... | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/stormtuning/posts/how-to-chip-a-td5-msb-ecuwe-often-get-asked-if-we-can-work-on-the-older-td5-ecus/1362077380565454/)

Don't worry about searching anything, if it was 'chipped' it will have a socket soldered in as per this facebook posts piccies, so take the top off and see if you have the chip sitting in a browny socket as per the pics, which I will say you have.

If yours is socketed PM me your most personal of personal details ( I mean address ok?) and I will post you a programmed chip with the modest tune I run on my 10p auto, then time off road is minimal, and I would appreciate some public feedback (it sucks is just as good as it's kinda ok, as long as it is constructive) on the forum re your driving experience.

I don't sell tunes as I don't have an interest in burning fuel doing repetitive on road testing and honestly if you ppl reading this post and have an interest actually take the time to digest the stuff on discotd5.com and have an NNN ecu it is easy peasy to do a basic stage 1 tune yourselves, if you can't get your head around it shutup and pay shack or your choice of tuner for the research time they've done to get it right for you.

My ultimate goal (if it eventuates, I get sidetracked a lot, no promises) is to put out a basic 'stage 1' EU2 tune for nix on this forum for anyone that wants to give it a shot, but I need to sort out 2 tune types, one for socketed MSB units and one for NNN units running on 10p motors.

No interest in EU3 stuff as I don't run one and don't care and there are plenty of 'pro' tuners out there for Td5s' that do a great job.

Currently in my tune I have the standard demand table for fuel so no extra delivery just factory, the temp gauge mod giving 5 positions, rather than the cold, normalish, sorry you're cooked settings, the MAP tables adjusted so you can go to 21psi (with standard MAP sensor), MAF turned off, (eu2 doesn't use it for fuel tuning or autobox changes as some mistakenly claim, but happy to be proven otherwise so I can improve my tune) EGR turned off (done nicely so no fault codes for either MAF or EGR by the way) the smoke and torque limiters turned way up so they are technically ineffective (still get torque reduction between shifts) and some other stuff I can't remember coz I just run it as it is good enough for me, so do not keep tweaking things.

[Tins]

Thanks, John. I have soldered on a socket before, so know how it's done. However, I think I will try and find another ECU "just in case". All this of course is if mine isn't already socketed, which I will check once all the RWC stuff is completed and it's registered. After that I would take you up on that offer. Mine is alleged to have a 25% power, and 35% torque increase, but there were no dyno figures included in the documentation other than a generic chart, which could have come from anywhere. All I can say is the car returns around 10 litres per 100K, significantly worse around town if the power is used. It does perform better than any known stock 10P D2 I have driven. If this is a comparison that interests you I'll take a proper look.

[johnp38]

My tune sure as hell doesn't have a 25% power increase !! But it is definitely a noticeable difference, I have here a stock unmolested MSB 101340 which is my baseline comparison ecu, I have another 2 MSB socketed units (101192 and 101340 both originally running same basic TRS stage 1 tune with increased injector timing from 20 yrs ago) and an NNN 000130 which still has the EU3 tune in it from its donor vehicle, I have modded my airbox wiring with 3 and 4 pin connectors (have a spare lid with EU3 sensor) and ran the extra wire needed to pin 31, in readiness for putting the NNN in with its EU3 factory tune to see how it goes with my 10p EU2 cam and blacktop injectors, just too lazy for now to do it, it's just a suck it and see hobby learning curve so no rush.

Yours will definitely have a socket in it being an MSB and retuned. Simply because the factory MSB memory chip storing the tune was not re programmable and had to be replaced, it just wouldn't make sense to me anyone would not take the opportunity to solder in a socket and make future programming changes easier.

I would be very interested to have you compare my hobby tune to your pro tune.

Maybe others can chip in with their efforts/thoughts too as there must be a few forum members playing hobby tuners.

[Tins]

The caveat is that everything about mine is "alleged".

[Tins]

To follow up, my ECU IC is NOT socketed, although there is some evidence of heat from a rework station. So, "alleged" is the correct expression, although the other mods in the documentation exist, such as those done to the SLABS.

While I have replaced ICs before, I have never done one with that many fine pins, and so I am reluctant to attempt it here. I will continue to look for another MSB101340 to play with. Of someone with a NNN 130 that they don't know the value of [bigwhistle]

[Slunnie]

the temp gauge mod giving 5 positions, rather than the cold, normalish, sorry you're cooked settings
Ahhh, mine does this. No wonder nobody knew what I was talking about, I just thought they hadn't seen it.

I have:
Cold
1/4
Normal
Just the smallest puff over normal which derates power
3/4 which allows only idle

[Tins]

Ahhh, mine does this. No wonder nobody knew what I was talking about, I just thought they hadn't seen it.

I have:
Cold
1/4
Normal
Just the smallest puff over normal which derates power
3/4 which allows only idle

Mine has what John described. #3 is how I discovered the joys of plastic locating dowels for the head.

[Tins]

To follow up, my ECU IC is NOT socketed,

Hmm. Stoopid me needs to take another look. I looked at the wrong chip. Ritalin is supposed to help me focus. Jury is still out on that one.

[Tins]

I make no comment about the veracity of the video title...


https://youtu.be/7cnYb6D6vXg'si=Prt3WRQfeY6-V16-

[Tins]

Hmm. Stoopid me needs to take another look. I looked at the wrong chip. Ritalin is supposed to help me focus. Jury is still out on that one.

So, the chip I should have been looking at isn't socketed either. It would be a much simpler proposition though. 40 pins aren't too bad.

[johnp38]

Ahhh, mine does this. No wonder nobody knew what I was talking about, I just thought they hadn't seen it.

I have:
Cold
1/4
Normal
Just the smallest puff over normal which derates power
3/4 which allows only idle

No mine isn't modified to do that, not sure I have a clue where that table is (is it in the xdf or did you map it yourself), I actually mean mine visually now has 5 positions (six if you count baseline cold resting position)

I don't know how to search my posts but there is one in the 'what happened to your disco 2 today' where I have a series of pics of where it sits as the temp increases.