EGR to be or not to be

[landoman]

I have searched through the threads on EGR and my brain spins …..

my EGR is on the blink …..intermittent power loss and engine fault light …I think this is the problem ……but maybe not ……could it be something else ?

got a few quotes to replace EGR …….$2000 or there abouts …..


question

should I replace or blank it out ?
is it legal to blank it out ?

what are the problems with blanking it out ……..do I need to do remaps ….use a diagnostic tool etc etc ….

totally lost

suggestions appreciated …

[POD]

I can only answer one of your questions, probably the one you already know the answer to; it is not legal to de-activate the EGR or any other emission control system.
I can perhaps partially answer another question; if you do de-activate it, the ECU will detect the malfunction and record fault codes and your check-engine light will be forever illuminated. There are apparently re-maps available that will make the ECU turn a blind eye.
I removed my EGR valve for cleaning several years ago as part of my preparation for a big trip. It was one of the worst, most awkward jobs I have ever done on any vehicle. I found the valve to be spotlessly clean- in other words I had completely wasted my time- with iirc around 250,000km on it.

[TonyC]

I have searched through the threads on EGR and my brain spins …..

my EGR is on the blink …..intermittent power loss and engine fault light …I think this is the problem ……but maybe not ……could it be something else ?

got a few quotes to replace EGR …….$2000 or there abouts …..


question

should I replace or blank it out ?
is it legal to blank it out ?

what are the problems with blanking it out ……..do I need to do remaps ….use a diagnostic tool etc etc ….

totally lost

suggestions appreciated …

Hi Landoman,
In order of your questions,
1) That's one you'll need to work out for yourself
2) As POD has pointed out, it is illegal to remove any emission equipment from a car.
3a) The problem with blanking or removing the EGR is the large increase in NOx emissions. NOx is a major contributor of acid rain, smog, asthma and other respiratory illnesses.
3b) What is required depends on what motor is fitted to your Defender.

Tony

[Lagerfan]

I recently took mine out to clean thinking it was cactus but same as POD it was pretty clean. I had no error codes but was drinking fuel when it was claiming to be closed. Have you checked the cause of the check engine light? Is it definitely EGR related? It is a pig of a job so you don't want to do it lightly, either yourself or forking out $$$.

Checking/cleaning is worthwhile in my opinion before getting a remap as your expensive tune isn't going to help much if the EGR is stuck open or otherwise busted.

In doing my research for the job I found you can get EGR "testers" (https://www.ozwidetools.com.au/egr-tester-actuator) for about $200, a bit exy for a one off but I imagine a garage might have one of these these.

[landoman]

I recently took mine out to clean thinking it was cactus but same as POD it was pretty clean. I had no error codes but was drinking fuel when it was claiming to be closed. Have you checked the cause of the check engine light? Is it definitely EGR related? It is a pig of a job so you don't want to do it lightly, either yourself or forking out $$$.

Checking/cleaning is worthwhile in my opinion before getting a remap as your expensive tune isn't going to help much if the EGR is stuck open or otherwise busted.

In doing my research for the job I found you can get EGR "testers" (https://www.ozwidetools.com.au/egr-tester-actuator) for about $200, a bit exy for a one off but I imagine a garage might have one of these these.


yes my first thoughts are to dertemine if it is indeed the EGR before I shill out big dollars to replace and find that’s not the problem

have been thinking of investing in a diagnostic tool like a nonocom ……..would this tell me if it’s the EGR or what else could be causing the engine light to come on. Again these things are not cheap either

[DazzaTD5]

I have searched through the threads on EGR and my brain spins …..

my EGR is on the blink …..intermittent power loss and engine fault light …I think this is the problem ……but maybe not ……could it be something else ?

got a few quotes to replace EGR …….$2000 or there abouts …..


question

should I replace or blank it out ?
is it legal to blank it out ?

what are the problems with blanking it out ……..do I need to do remaps ….use a diagnostic tool etc etc ….

totally lost

suggestions appreciated …

What model Defender do you have? either a 2.2 or 2.4? how many km's?

[landoman]

What model Defender do you have? either a 2.2 or 2.4? how many km's?

it’s a 2.2 2016 model ………think I’m about 80,000 k

I put some Penrite EGR CAT cleaner in the fuel tank this avo and took it for a burn up the freeway ………probably wasted my money as the engine light is still on ……BUT the engine and pickup seems a little more spritely ……..so not all bad

next step is to look at investing in a diagnostic tool ……..

the IID tool or the Nanocom …..the IID
site in Canada is a bit of a joke ……so difficult to use and totally unresponsive ……..looks like Nanocom in Cyprus will be the go……( both expensive ) ……unless someone can guide me to something else that might be good for a 2.2

[POD]

I don't know whether CAT cleaner is likely to clear your problem, but the fact that the light did not go out on one drive is not indicative, I believe it needs 3 starts with the fault no longer present for the light to go out.

[DazzaTD5]

*2.2 can be a bit prone to EGR faults and yes some egr cleaners can work.
*As already mentioned, 3 good starts and the light will go off, for the time being anyway.
*As with a lot of mods to cars, such as a lift greater than 50mm, egr delete, jerry can racks on the side of a vehicle etc etc... they aren't legal for road use.

*I use and would only ever recommend the GAP tool, their support pages have a lot of info and their support is exceptional. If you are going to bother with anything else you might as well just get a $100 generic code reader for clearing codes.

P.S if you blank the egr on a 2.2 you will need to get it tuned out

[landoman]

What model Defender do you have? either a 2.2 or 2.4? how many km's?


I don't know whether CAT cleaner is likely to clear your problem, but the fact that the light did not go out on one drive is not indicative, I believe it needs 3 starts with the fault no longer present for the light to go out.


well what d ya know …….on the basis of your feed back I went and started it up and the light has gone ………..don’t know if it wil stay gone but that’s encouraging for now .thanks for the tip

I’ll still invest in a diagnostic tool for this if it comes back or other faults …from what I’ve read it appears the IID tool or the Nanocom are the better choices ……….if anyone can suggest anything else I’m all ears ……thes tools are quite expensive so want the most suitable for a 2.2 ( 2016 year )

[landoman]

Further to my last post after using the Penrite EGR CAT cleaner my engine fault light did not go out immediately but as pointed out it needs a few starts with the fault gone to clear .
sure enough after a few starts yesterday arvo it went out ……..BUT then it came back again

left it overnight ………and started this arvo ……..three times ……and no light

the mystery deepens ……….when I get my diagnostic tool hopefully it will tell me what the fault is if the light comes back on …..fingers crossed it stays off

[DazzaTD5]

Further to my last post after using the Penrite EGR CAT cleaner my engine fault light did not go out immediately but as pointed out it needs a few starts with the fault gone to clear .
sure enough after a few starts yesterday arvo it went out ……..BUT then it came back again

left it overnight ………and started this arvo ……..three times ……and no light

the mystery deepens ……….when I get my diagnostic tool hopefully it will tell me what the fault is if the light comes back on …..fingers crossed it stays off

its not a mystery, its failing, at some point you will need to replace or delete it.

[landoman]

*2.2 can be a bit prone to EGR faults and yes some egr cleaners can work.
*As already mentioned, 3 good starts and the light will go off, for the time being anyway.
*As with a lot of mods to cars, such as a lift greater than 50mm, egr delete, jerry can racks on the side of a vehicle etc etc... they aren't legal for road use.

*I use and would only ever recommend the GAP tool, their support pages have a lot of info and their support is exceptional. If you are going to bother with anything else you might as well just get a $100 generic code reader for clearing codes.

S if you blank the egr on a 2.2 you will need to get it tuned out


did a bit more research and seems as you suggest the GAP tool is the one to get

did watch a few videos on the tool and one on setting it up showed that while you can run it on an iphone which I like it showed that in the setup procedure you needed a PC to download data and transfer it to the device via a usb cable .

As I don’t have or use a PC ( only an iPhone and an IPad ) this would be a major hassle …….or can it be set up without a PC ?

The video I watched was 6 years old so I’m hopeful that things have moved on and I can set it up sans PC

any comments appreciated

[landoman]

I bit the bullet and got a gap diagnostic ……run it for my fault light ……

it seems to be suggesting it’s an electrical fault ………any suggestions how to check this before I shill out $2000 to replace the EGR and find it’s a cable / electrical issue ……..or am I over thinking this ?

either way I’m impressed with the Gap tool ……..even if setting it up to my iPad was a pain ….

[Tikka7mm08]

I remapped my 2.4 with the BAS tool and it came with EGR delete. Need to check the stopper position to be sure it is set to shut. Worked a treat.

[MLD]

As I don’t have or use a PC ( only an iPhone and an IPad ) this would be a major hassle …….or can it be set up without a PC ?

i run a GAP diagnostic tool. i'm an Apple man (Mac and macbook). It was many moons ago that i set mine up but i didn't have a windows based PC at the time so i must have been able to set it up with the Mac OS. I keep my tune on an ipad and use the bluetooth dongle in the OBDII port to do any diagnostic and tune changes.

EGR is much cheaper than $2k. The duratorq engine was used by Ford in Europe and ROW and they had a partnership with Peugeot. Do a part number cross reference and see if you can get one in a Ford box or a generic one. Not hard to change yourself. bit fiddly being at the back of the engine but doable for a home mechanic with common sense.

[landoman]

i run a GAP diagnostic tool. i'm an Apple man (Mac and macbook). It was many moons ago that i set mine up but i didn't have a windows based PC at the time so i must have been able to set it up with the Mac OS. I keep my tune on an ipad and use the bluetooth dongle in the OBDII port to do any diagnostic and tune changes.

EGR is much cheaper than $2k. The duratorq engine was used by Ford in Europe and ROW and they had a partnership with Peugeot. Do a part number cross reference and see if you can get one in a Ford box or a generic one. Not hard to change yourself. bit fiddly being at the back of the engine but doable for a home mechanic with common sense.

thanks for that…..I got the gap tool set up in the end using an old apple I had at the bottom of a cupboard …….

the $2000 for the egr is for part and fitting fitting …and replacing the coolant and diagnostic etc …….can get a genuine LR one from UK for about $500

if I were to try it myself. ( I have located the 4 bolts …but very tricky to get to )….but would I have to drain the coolant …….the egr has two hoses carrying coolant I presume …..

[MLD]

if I were to try it myself. ( I have located the 4 bolts …but very tricky to get to )….but would I have to drain the coolant …….the egr has two hoses carrying coolant I presume …..

there are 2 main parts in the EGR system. the cooler and the EGR valve. only the EGR valve is electronic and capable of throwing a fault code. You shouldn't have to touch the cooler or the coolant hoses to replace the EGR valve. the EGR valve bolts to the end of the cooler and the other end to the side of the intake side of the engine. on the 2.4 its on the back right corner of the engine. If i'm wrong on the coolant lines, you would only need to remove the one closest to the valve (assuming for access). i'd tie it up to elevate it and/or jam a bolt into the end to stop it leaking coolant. after that, it's just skin off the knuckles and swear words. I replaced mine many moons ago, so the procedure is vague. I did it and i sit at a desk for my day job so it's doable for the motivated home mechanic.

[landoman]

Did you get all the 4 bolts from the top or from underneath…..

[MLD]

Did you get all the 4 bolts from the top or from underneath…..

i don't remember, it was so long ago. I replaced 2 EGR valves, cracked to poos and removed the whole EGR set up. Blanked the exhaust manifold with a blanking plate and blanked the intake with a plate. Everything in between those 2 locations is in a tub under the house. Tuned out the EGR in the ECU. I wouldn't do it again. Has kock on problems with diagnostics and if you do a SCV or fuel pump relearn, i have to plug in the EGR valve so the ECU doesn't throw a wobbly and reject the relearn.

[landoman]

i don't remember, it was so long ago. I replaced 2 EGR valves, cracked to poos and removed the whole EGR set up. Blanked the exhaust manifold with a blanking plate and blanked the intake with a plate. Everything in between those 2 locations is in a tub under the house. Tuned out the EGR in the ECU. I wouldn't do it again. Has kock on problems with diagnostics and if you do a SCV or fuel pump relearn, i have to plug in the EGR valve so the ECU doesn't throw a wobbly and reject the relearn.

yeh I’m not so sure about blanking it out have read it can give you problems in other ways

Im just going to replace my faulty one and let it do its job

[DazzaTD5]

As already mentioned, if you blank it, you need to tune it out.

Blanking cures issues, as in the heat exchange is unlikely to crack internally.
As for causing other issues, that just internet bs.