Next tow vehicle after sdv6 D4

[Ashes]

Just starting to consider my next vehicle after a 2015 SDV6 D4. It’s been an awesome vehicle for towing a 3.3t van. Power, fuel economy, comfort and stability have been awesome and I don’t think there are many others that match it.
if I were to upgrade to a new or near new vehicle what LR would you go to, or in other words, what is the best newish LR for towing and why?

[Eric SDV6SE]

L663 DEFENDER just 'cause

[chuck]

I would second the Defender

It should have been the Discovery 5

[WhiteD3]

I know they're the ugliest car around (especially from the rear) but why not a D5 S or SE, 3 litre?

Tons of room, much better rear access than the Defender.

[goldey]

Another option, I've been pretty partial to the L405 Range Rover with either the 4.4 TDV8 or the 5.0SC petrol. You could pick up a low km example that hasn't seen gravel verge off tarmac let alone any dirt roads for less than the price of most of the recent Defenders.Then again I've been known to like my luxury features in a car.

[Eric SDV6SE]

I know they're the ugliest car around (especially from the rear), but why not a D5 S or SE, 3 litre?

Tons of room, much better rear access than the Defender.

Hmm, went camping over the weekend, our Defender L663 and my mate in his "D5". We both had D4's previously, we are of the view that the D4 has more room in the back than the D5, and the Defender has similar space, but the rear swing door lets it down. We both miss the upper and lower tailgates and stowage space in the D4. The D5 has a single lift up tailgate and a little fold up end board, that you cant sit or stand on, and due to curved rear end of the D5, less vertical height, so fitting a car fridge and a single drawer is a challenge.

[Ashes]

Good that you could compare the D5 and Defender side by side after having come from the D4.
I love my D4 and it is super practical as tow vehicle. Fridge sits comfortably in the back of it with so much additional room for odds and ends.
We have test driven the D5 but preferred our D4. Haven't had a good look at the Defender yet.

[DieselLSE]

Hmm, went camping over the weekend, our Defender L663 and my mate in his "D5". We both had D4's previously, we are of the view that the D4 has more room in the back than the D5, and the Defender has similar space, but the rear swing door lets it down. We both miss the upper and lower tailgates and stowage space in the D4. The D5 has a single lift up tailgate and a little fold up end board, that you cant sit or stand on, and due to curved rear end of the D5, less vertical height, so fitting a car fridge and a single drawer is a challenge.
Interesting observations. Thanks for posting.
Theoretical question: If they were both current model vehicles (i.e. similar tech) and assuming they were priced similarly, would you prefer a D4 or a L663?
I agree with Ashes. I love the tailgate and pretty much everything else about the D4. All the daft bits (like 19" wheels, spare wheel location, lack of "camping mode" facility, seatbelt chime at farm gates etc.) can all be readily addressed and it allows for heaps of mods like bars, roof racks, second batteries, solar panels etc. without having to drill any holes.

[Graeme]

seatbelt chime at farm gates Easily turned-off.

[scarry]

Interesting observations. Thanks for posting.
Theoretical question: If they were both current model vehicles (i.e. similar tech) and assuming they were priced similarly, would you prefer a D4 or a L663?
I agree with Ashes. I love the tailgate and pretty much everything else about the D4. All the daft bits (like 19" wheels, spare wheel location, lack of "camping mode" facility, seatbelt chime at farm gates etc.) can all be readily addressed and it allows for heaps of mods like bars, roof racks, second batteries, solar panels etc. without having to drill any holes.

I would have had another D4 anyday,ours was moved on at just under 10 yrs.The vehicle model run was pretty well sorted,but as usual,once that happens a new model appears,and they have to start all over again.

After a year of looking etc we moved to another brand which has both the great tailgate set up,similar to D4,and as much if not possibly more room than the D4.
None of the LR offerings suited us for a number of other reasons,everyone has different needs.

[DieselLSE]

Easily turned-off.

Yep. But not in the L663 so I believe.

[jwb]

Yep. But not in the L663 so I believe.

I've been looking at this and found CCF reference:

- Disbale Seatbelt Reminder
MultiCAN-717 Front Belt Minder
Beltminder Fully OFF

Might try it if I get brave...

[veebs]

After a year of looking etc we moved to another brand which has both the great tailgate set up,similar to D4,and as much if not possibly more room than the D4.
None of the LR offerings suited us for a number of other reasons,everyone has different needs.

My biggest frustration - all the R&D time since the D3, and we have gone backward in practicality. No question the phone integration, off road ability, engine, electronics etc are worlds apart - but the back seat layout (adult sized, fold flat and low etc), tailgate, under bonnet space has gone backward.

LR isn't alone in this, as I see the other brand you mention has also gone away from a split boot in their new model. Must be something that makes this layout a headache for manufacturers?

[scarry]

LR isn't alone in this, as I see the other brand you mention has also gone away from a split boot in their new model. Must be something that makes this layout a headache for manufacturers?

A real nuisance as so many like it,it is great for camping,touring,etc,etc.

Gerry Mc Govern when asked at the launch of the D5 said they could never get the fit right,and they got full of rust.Ever seen a D3/4 tailgate full of rust and not fit right?Just a load of absolute BS.Maybe he is way out of date and thinking of the RRclassic?In fact the dust sealing of the D3/4 set up is excellent,so much for not fitting correctly.
Toyota were asked when the 300 turned up and there was no comment,except to say we did a survey and many like no tailgate so they can reach in the rear load carrying area easier.
For both brands i think it is easier and cheaper to go this way.Possibly lighter as well
And for LR,the D5 was also built to compete with BMW,Merc,and Volvo etc,so went the same way as the opposition.

When the LC300 appeared the missing tailgate was probably the biggest complaint on forums,followed by the downsizing of the fuel tank,although the aftermarket mobs have a good solution with spare still under the rear.

As for the rear door on the new Defender,many complain about it as well.
An option for a split tailgate would have been a great idea,but no such luck,probably too difficult to do.
Having the spare hanging off the rear,one would think a larger fuel tank would be the go,if not the 110, maybe the 130,anyway,as with the European trend,it is still smallish.

[veebs]

If anything the D3/4 is praised for the absolute lack of body flex, thanks to two chassis - I've never read about a door needing to be adjusted to close properly for example? So no, if it was working at factory, it's probably still working now.

There may be rust problems in countries with salty roads, but that rust extends well beyond the boot! A YouTube of anyone in England changing the LCA in these cars shows what a cruisy life they get in Aus :)

Yes - cheaper and easier, and so to have the single boot as the default option is all good. But charge me an extra $5k for a split tailgate and I'll bitch about it, then pay the money! Problem might come up with what to then do with the spare I guess.

Ironically, for city-based cars it's also useful - have you ever backed up to a wall, but still been able to open the boot due to the short distance the two halves extend from the car? Brilliant.

Sigh...

[loanrangie]

Completely agree on the cargo area and 3rd row seating, D3/4 set the benchmark and they should have kept that design into the Defender.
They should also have a split tailgate as an option although spare wheel location stuffed that up.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Interesting observations. Thanks for posting.
Theoretical question: If they were both current model vehicles (i.e. similar tech) and assuming they were priced similarly, would you prefer a D4 or a L663?
I agree with Ashes. I love the tailgate and pretty much everything else about the D4. All the daft bits (like 19" wheels, spare wheel location, lack of "camping mode" facility, seatbelt chime at farm gates etc.) can all be readily addressed and it allows for heaps of mods like bars, roof racks, second batteries, solar panels etc. without having to drill any holes.

I would buy a current model D4 if they still made them, would be awesome if theyd kept the same platform but fitted the ingenium engines into them. I love the L663 looks and tech, but the D4 just does it all so well.

[DiscoJeffster]

I would buy a current model D4 if they still made them, would be awesome if theyd kept the same platform but fitted the ingenium engines into them. I love the L663 looks and tech, but the D4 just does it all so well.

The Ingiboom as they’re affectionately known as in the 2L variety in the Sport. Even worse than the TDV6. Hope they’re better in the L663.

[scarry]

Hope they’re better in the L663.

They were just as bad,actually a disaster,same as D5.

The 2L came out with lots of chest beating about running huge boost,then they were detuned,then dropped in most models.

We can only hope the D300 is better.

[Eric SDV6SE]

....and thats why i went petrol P400...

[SimmAus]

A quick summary of these posts so far:
The D4 provided most of what people wanted

So, the question:
Why did you change and do you regret it?

I’m holding onto my D4 for dear life. Not complaining about maintenance, actively looking to stay ahead of anything that may break. Understanding that a few $k in maintenance (that I luckily can afford) is cheaper than the depreciation on a $140k new vehicle.

I also appreciate that the above story has been replayed since the very first vehicle produced…but I’m interested in other’s opinions on the change.

[jwb]

My 2c worth having gone from D4 to L663 recently

Barn door is fine with me as reaching over the drop down D4 for load carrying was a pain
Fitting out the D4 for touring - the 3rd row seats we never used and were a waste of space and weight
L663 has useful space under the cargo floor for my battery and inverter
Spare wheel under the car in the D4 compromised cargo space fitout for access to that horrible wind down thing - which failed and was only used twice in 5 years.
L663 2nd row seats fold completely flat giving a huge, flat cargo space
We tow a 5m boat which either vehicle hardly know it's on the back
Not denying the D4 was a superb touring and offroad vehicle we are finding the Defender a notch better.

[Eric SDV6SE]

As for the rear door on the new Defender,many complain about it as well.
An option for a split tailgate would have been a great idea,but no such luck,probably too difficult to do.
Having the spare hanging off the rear,one would think a larger fuel tank would be the go,if not the 110, maybe the 130,anyway,as with the European trend,it is still smallish.

Cant really complain on the rear door of L663, its well balanced, you can open or close it with a soft push, it stays where you leave it, and the soft close is also nice, no need to slam it at all. The reverse camera is well calibrated so you can reverse into a bay and using the first marker, still open the door if needed, if you need to back in more, the second marker on the screeen lets you know the minimum to avoid hitting thr tyre cover. Would a split door work? Horizontally split no, but a vertical split with the spare mounted off centre to the passenger side, with the option to fit a second on the other door, now theres an idea...

[WhiteD3]

You can sit on the fold out board no problem. I have many times. I reckon you could stand on it too but you'd have to be < 1m tall due to the tail gate.


The D5 has a single lift up tailgate and a little fold up end board, that you cant sit or stand on..............

[discomatt69]

A quick summary of these posts so far:
The D4 provided most of what people wanted

So, the question:
Why did you change and do you regret it?

I’m holding onto my D4 for dear life. Not complaining about maintenance, actively looking to stay ahead of anything that may break. Understanding that a few $k in maintenance (that I luckily can afford) is cheaper than the depreciation on a $140k new vehicle.

I also appreciate that the above story has been replayed since the very first vehicle produced…but I’m interested in other’s opinions on the change.

This is where I am at, trade the perfect D4 because its 10 years old, all be it well serviced and so far, touch wood, faultless , or keep and repair as requireds
But the real question is trade to what?
200 cruiser, to expensive, thirsty and in reality no more reliable than a good Disco
300 cruiser, good power, good economy, would be good on road and excellent off road, the flex in them is exceptional but new and unproven so given Toyota's and new models, pass
Grenadier, just to many issues and faults, no service manuals as promised and stuff all service / dealer network
Defender, take a punt on another LR, possible nightmare, possibly the best car ever, guaranteed huge depreciation
Range Rover V8 diesel, second hand not new, low load capacity, stuff all aftermarket gear like bar work, long range tanks etc

[scarry]

This is where I am at, trade the perfect D4 because its 10 years old, all be it well serviced and so far, touch wood, faultless , or keep and repair as requireds
But the real question is trade to what?
200 cruiser, to expensive, thirsty and in reality no more reliable than a good Disco
300 cruiser, good power, good economy, would be good on road and excellent off road, the flex in them is exceptional but new and unproven so given Toyota's and new models, pass
Grenadier, just to many issues and faults, no service manuals as promised and stuff all service / dealer network
Defender, take a punt on another LR, possible nightmare, possibly the best car ever, guaranteed huge depreciation
Range Rover V8 diesel, second hand not new, low load capacity, stuff all aftermarket gear like bar work, long range tanks etc

Had the D4(2.7L),for almost 10 yrs,and the LC200 for almost 4.
Fuel economy for both is almost exactly the same,yet the 200 is faster,heavier,and has a heap more torque.Not that were are particularly fixated on fuel economy like some,but both vehicles were/are company owned so all fuel and mileage are logged.We don’t tow,but do often run fully loaded.The 3L and 8speed would be better on fuel as it is lighter and possibly quicker, at a guess.
Reliability wise,the D4 had 11 issues during the warranty period,and issues continued out of warranty.
The LC,not a single issue,and it has done almost 50% more Ks a year than the D4 did.
And a heap of off road work.
But agree,second hand prices are absolutely rediculous,I would rather pay more and get a 300,but I would miss the rear tailgate setup,it is so handy,particularly for touring,camping,etc.
Looking at the forums,thev300 has very few issues,particularly if you look at the huge nunber being sold,compared to say Defender.
Anyway,as I have said before each to their own,everyone has different needs.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I heard the 300's were having trouble making the service intervals.... yoyata's solution was "add oil"....

[discomatt69]

claims fuel economy is the same or almost the same between the 200 and a D3 or 4 are open to perception and interpretation
Our last big trip was with friends who own a 200 and exactly same van as ours, both cars have pretty much same mods except I run a bigger tire, he runs standard size
over 16000km I averaged 14.7. he averaged low 18's and up to low 20's at times, ours never went above 18's

yep small difference where perception and interpretation comes in, 2 , 3 or 4l per 100 isn't much, over a 16000km trip its a significant difference, over a years driving a big difference, over the life of the vehicle a huge difference

Whilst discussing the last trip I will also mention we did a fair amount of rough dirt roads and a very small amount of 4wding, the Disco didn't have one issue or fault, the 200 sat in a caravan park in Geraldton for a week which included 2 days at the Toyota dealer for a ABS / TC fault which they couldn't fix in their available time frame, a independent and recommended auto elec found a broken cable in the front loom that runs between the wheel hub speed sensor and the main loom in half an hour

[scarry]

claims fuel economy is the same or almost the same between the 200 and a D3 or 4 are open to perception and interpretation

If you read my post I said not towing……..although it is a bit off topic to what the OP asked.

It is a well known fact they use more than a D3/4 towing,but that all depends on vehicle accessories,speeds,weights,etc,etc,and some look at the dash read out and think that is accurate,so who knows the real facts.

Your post is also open to perception,your vehicle averaged 14.7,what did the other vehicle actually average for the whole trip?
There is a lot more to the full costs of an owning a vehicle,than just fuel,there is depreciation,repair costs and on it goes.

Seems like the Tojo dealer wherever you were was no better than the majority of LR dealers.

Edit,if you actually work out the figures for a trip of16,000km,and fuel at $2.20l,one vehicle at 14.7 L/100,one using around 3.5l/100 more,the difference is $1233.00.So not a major amount.Bugga all actually,in the whole scheme of things.If the trip was 12 months that would be $23/week.A six month trip $46/week.
After the trip,back to no towing,fuel would be very similar,probably the same,depending on mods,driver style,etc.
If both were bought new,for similar costs,at the end of the road,say 10 to 15yrs old,there is a good chance one will be worth close to double the other.
As for repairs,that depends on lots of things as does maintenance.
Then on a modern LR there is add blue as well,but probably a negligible cost.