2011 D4 'Gearbox Fault' warning

[Bananas]

Hello Easter Bunnies

With 4 days off to eat chocolate eggs and work on the Disco between swims with the kids, I figured I'd start troubleshooting some "Gearbox Fault' warnings I have had that put the car into Restricted Performance mode.

Backing up a bit, my 2011 D4 started behaving badly in December with a few Gearbox Faults popping up on the Xmas migration north and back home again. The faults have happened a few times since almost always on the highway and it seems always when the engine is coasting under load (up a slight incline for example) and needs to shift down. The 1 exception was the very first time it happened, pulling out after refuelling into crawling traffic up a hill. I did not notice whether this happened shifting up or down. Pulling over and restarting the car clears the fault and returns performance to normal. I'm ashamed it's now easter before getting on to it.

I have read a few threads which have been helpful but thought I'd start my own to help as I decide to DIY or book it in for more than I can do myself.

Symptoms and general observations so far:



Driving around town I have not had any gearbox faults but there is some slight shudder when in D and I suspect (although I might be wrong) only in 3rd gear. This only seems to happen up a slight incline. Shifting to S seems to stop the shudder.
In similar driving circumstances I suspect the torque converter occasionally slips. The tacho needle briefly jumps and the car surges. This kind of feels like slightly pushing the clutch on a manual car when driving. The surges are about 1 second apart and seem like they would go on indefinitely, or at least as long as the incline. Shifting to S seems to stop the surging.
Highway driving in D, again, up a slight incline almost inevitably faults. As the revs drop to about 1500 and I start wondering when the change will happen, the fault occurs. The same driving conditions in S almost entirely eliminates the fault although it has happened in S on 3 occasions.
Gear changes at any speed are pretty smooth and there is no delay engaging gear when selecting R or D from P.


I read somewhere that the gearbox fault can occur during a bad shift like the 1500ish RPM shifts described above. I also read that the bad shift could be caused by low transmission oil, badly degraded oil, or misbehaving valves or seals in the mechatronics unit.

My first task today was just to check the fluid condition and level. I had 1.5 litres of new Lifeguard 6 so I drained the oil and refilled (following Robbie's guide). I refilled using a mix of the old oil and the 1.5 litres of the new. The old oil is dark but does not smell burnt. When wiped on a white paper towel there is no colour on the towel as the oils soaks in. So it looks like I'm ready for a change but it doesn't look like the oil has been cooked. After adding the 1.5 litres of new oil I had 750 ml of the old oil left. So I guess I was low by about 750 ml. I drove the car and the changes are smooth. I still noticed some very slight shudder in 3rd. I have a tube of Lubegard instant shudder fixx but I'm holding my guns on that for now.

I have not yet driven it on the highway but I think it's a stretch to imagine the faults won't continue to happen. Assuming I'll still get the faults the next idea is to do a proper transmission oil change (not a full flush) and change the solenoids and seals in the mechatronics unit. Seems super easy to do but at $500 or whatever worth of oil, plus new valves, seals and a gasket at a minimum I'm wondering if I'll get any change from $1500 without having addressed the torque converter. Yes, cheaper than a $7K rebuild, but not if I eventually find a rebuild is required anyway.

Changing the solenoids etc is an easy enough DIY but I'm not so sure I want to drop the gearbox myself.

I'll update after more driving but if anyone has any thoughts or similar experience, I would be very happy to hear your tales.

Thanks!

[Cambo_oldjaguar]

Have you scanned it and recorded the fault codes?

What are the codes?

That should be the very first thing you do before spending a cent on anything else.

Edit

And is this a 2.7 or a 3.0? Because they are different transmissions 6HP26 vs 6HP28.

[Bananas]

Thanks Cambo

It's a 2.7 with the 6HP26. Unfortunately I only have an iCarsoft CR Pro and the code given for the Gearbox is U2023 "Fault received from external node". There is no further info. A new scan tool is on the wish list.

For the engine there is P117D "Fuel volume regulator control exceeded maximum control limit". I do not know if this was an old code not related to the gearbox fault.

I cleared all codes to see what comes up next time.

I just returned from a 2h drive. I drove almost exclusively in D and noticed very little shudder when I would have expected to feel it and very smooth gear changes. Placebo effect perhaps. I was just starting to feel amazed (or confused) then in the last 200 m cruising up a slight incline I get the dreaded "Gearbox Fault" and the U2023 code.

[Ferret]

Gear box faults resulting in limp mode can somtimes be caused by high pressure fuel pump problems. Don't understand the reasons behind that but have seen 2 cases of it before amoung friends D4s.

I would be monitoring fuel pump pressure if your diagnotic tool does this.

[Cambo_oldjaguar]

In this case there’s nothing wrong with your transmission, you’ve got fuel pump issues

[Bananas]

Great tips thanks. I'll see if the iCarsoft has the chops and if not I'll get something that will. (Best left to another thread but there seems to be a few now that rival the GAP iiD.)

I read somewhere that the Gearbox Fault can happen when the measured torque does not match the torque predicted by the ECU or something of the sort and that this usually happens during a gear change. I have a feeling I also read that a clogged fuel filter can be responsible for a momentary drop in torque resulting in the mismatch between the measured and predicted torque and in turn the Gearbox Fault. Perhaps that was a dream.

At least this is an easy and inexpensive job to try. And now I can do it dressed all in white after the degrease and clean I did today from the transfer case forward. Such a satisfying way to waste the afternoon.

[DiscoJeffster]

It’ll be your HPFP like on every other 2.7L. You can try the filter and lift pump but I’ll put good money on the HPFP.

[Bananas]

Awesome. Thanks very much.

I'm happy to try the HPFP. This one? Attention Required! | Cloudflare (https://www.trspares.com.au/shop-online/land-rover-discovery-3/fuel-system/2-7-tdv6/fuel-pump-discovery-3-2-7-tdv6-diesel-engine-lr017367.html)

[DiscoJeffster]

Awesome. Thanks very much.

I'm happy to try the HPFP. This one? Attention Required! | Cloudflare (https://www.trspares.com.au/shop-online/land-rover-discovery-3/fuel-system/2-7-tdv6/fuel-pump-discovery-3-2-7-tdv6-diesel-engine-lr017367.html)

Yes, but shop around. I’m sure they can be had for around $1600 to $2000.

My advice would be to consult a Land Rover specialist for help.

[Bananas]

Thanks DiscoJeffster. Watching vids now. I thought the Discovery was build around the heater matrix. I'm now thinking the D4 was build around the HPFP. Looks like a long day.

[DiscoJeffster]

Thanks DiscoJeffster. Watching vids now. I thought the Discovery was build around the heater matrix. I'm now thinking the D4 was build around the HPFP. Looks like a long day.

[emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

[BradC]

Yes, but shop around. I’m sure they can be had for around $1600 to $2000.


If you can find a new one (not a refurb) for less than $2.5k now, grab it and run.

[DiscoJeffster]

If you can find a new one (not a refurb) for less than $2.5k now, grab it and run.

Oh right. Inflation.

[Bananas]

If you can find a new one (not a refurb) for less than $2.5k now, grab it and run.

@ BradC I just read your 2018 thread documenting the troubleshooting you did on the way to replacing the HPFP in the Antichrist. I'm of the same mind - thorough diagnosis before liberal application of $$. Afterall I started this thread expecting to change transmission solenoids...

But then again, the P177D code that I quickly dismissed and DiscoJeffters high stakes nod to the HPFP makes me think taking a troubleshooting shortcut might be the go.

Fuel filter first though. Just because it's an easy one to tick off.

And from what I have read and watched this evening I'm wondering if the slight shuddering I feel from time to time and have put down the torque converter slipping might in fact be fuel starved ignition. It feels remarkably similar to my first little 80's petrol Suzuki Sierra (LWB UTE) when it started telling me it needed a tune and the plugs needed re gapping.

[PerthDisco]

The hpfp fault drops you into into limp mode / restricted performance with F on the gear display and also drops the suspension to bump stops. The fault codes always cascade from a fuel pump code into all the rest.

Yes a new hpfp is almost unobtainable and most are reman but as far as I can tell the reman don’t replace the electronic valves which is what fails.

LR will sell you one for $4300 but try Ford Suppliers for the Territory.

[BradC]

The hpfp fault drops you into into limp mode / restricted performance with F on the gear display and also drops the suspension to bump stops. The fault codes always cascade from a fuel pump code into all the rest.

Just to expand on that, because PerthDisco has it far more recently than mine. When the ECU drops into fault it stops sending "something" on the High Speed CAN Bus. This causes modules such as the "TCU" (which mine doesn't have because it has a gearbox), the suspension and the handbrake module all to start screaming they have communication issues. Unfortunately the communication issues stem from the ECU ****ting the bed because one of the valves in the HPFP has stuck.

I could (yeah, yeah I know, eyes on the road Brad) watch the trace and/or values for the VCV and PCV and work around the fault with judicious use of the loud pedal. Failing that, as long as I caught it at the first "Bong" I could do a rolling ignition reset (off, on again) and reset the ECU before the rest of the modules caught on (dunno if you can do that with a slushbox).

So the comms failures you see are rather indicative of an upstream failure, and the only relevant upstream is the ECU. It's a bit of a curse. 2.7 tend to lunch the odd crank and suffer HPFP failures. The 3.0 tend to lunch more cranks and intake manifolds. Anecdotal evidence would indicate it's easier to find/replace a 2.7 EU4 HPFP than it is find a serviceable 3.0L crank shaft.

Which devil do you dance with? On the other hand, I'm led to believe the 2.7 D4 pretty much never kills a donk, so maybe it's worth it.

Despite there may now be "other" diagnostic tools that purport to do what a GAP iiDTool does, I'd get one. I only say that because I spent money on several pretenders before I bought the iiD and I've not been in need of features that it doesn't offer since. Still, it's your cash.

[BradC]

Oh right. Inflation.

I think it's a bit of that, and a bit of "has been obsolete now for well over 10 years so we've stopped giving a crap". They're getting harder to come by, and as my year 11 Economics teacher described they're rising up on the demand/cost curve.

[Bananas]

Very helpful guys, thank you.

As the kids argue about easter eggs and begin depositing coloured foil all around the house...

Thinking more about this I sympathise with mechanics who need to make a call on which repair route to take. Yesterday when the Gearbox Fault occurred I had the iCarsoft plugged in watching the torque output, gear selected, transmission control module temperature (transmission oil temp is not available) and occasionally the road.

After the fault I pulled over, left the engine running with the Gearbox Fault still on the dash and did a full scan. Although the only errors on the dash were "Gearbox Fault", "Restricted Performance", the red triangle with the ! and the orange triangle with the !, the iCarsoft showed a heap of codes including things like parking brake, steering sensor and so on. I cleared all codes figuring they were from when I replaced the heater matrix a while back.

It's possible I'm now trying to retrospectively fit the symptoms to the failing HPFP suggestion and perhaps some of these codes were caused by the cascading effect described. Never the less if I rethink the symptoms in the context of a problem with the fuel supply here are some additional observations:



I have not seen a suspension fault code, nor does the car drop to the stops after the fault;
I am confident that all Gearbox Fault errors occurred at times when the engine was experiencing increasing load AND when I was going soft of the accelerator AND on a downward gear change. I cannot recall it happening at all when driving the car a bit more aggressively. It has only happened in S a few times but feels inevitable in D;
I am now thinking that the occasional 'shudder' I have described is more like a rough patch or perhaps even a cylinder in a petrol engine misfiring (I once had a 2 stroke bike that was like tuning a guitar and when the carbie was poorly tuned at certain amounts of throttle the engine would run rough and become smooth out again with more throttle. My 4 cyl Suzuki would begin to miss once the contacts became severely eroded);
Further, when the D4 is doing it's 'shudder' the tacho needle oscillates in sync with the shudder. The needle drops about 500ish RPM on each shudder and instantly recovers. Further still, the shudder is soft, not like the hard shudder of a glazed slipping clutch in a manual. Further yet, like the Gearbox Fault I have only noticed the shudder at times when the engine was experiencing increasing load AND when I was going soft of the accelerator. Shifting to S without adding more throttle instantly solves the shudder. In this circumstances shifting to S will raise the RPM by about 500 rpm.


I guess the next logical steps before committing to the HPFP are to test the LPFP and to see if I can get live reads of the fuel pressure.

[PerthDisco]

I think it's a bit of that, and a bit of "has been obsolete now for well over 10 years so we've stopped giving a crap". They're getting harder to come by, and as my year 11 Economics teacher described they're rising up on the demand/cost curve.

I’m pretty confident I got the last brand new genuine one in Australia late last year out of Victoria via a Ford parts reseller ($2200). Everyone else had them on back order but with no resupply time known.

All the major LR online part’s outlets stock reman. United Fuel Injection in Perth a VDO supplier stock reman.

I’d like to know how many LR have in stock as they quote them as available ($4300).

If you watch LR Time Fabian has the hpfp fault which they change for a reman which fails again exactly the same and they then replace with a brand new one. Not a job you want to do twice.

Old v New

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240331/0f02d03f7d1d15bf154b52b43f9b9d00.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240331/2b7929f85172e7d4227f2da0d9bbe7db.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240331/079128395a3d7c748e40f84882e00c94.jpg

[Bananas]

Good job. I'll go google crazy looking for a new one. Tons of remanufactured ones on the net but I started watching that episode of LR Time and Christian was suss on the remanufactured unit from the outset. He noticed the regulator and/or sensor had not been replaced. I haven't watched it to the end so I did not know the reman unit failed. Mmmm not good.

Seems like GAP iiD G3 and G4 will do the job for the D4. The G3 direct from GAP is AUD 820 (ex tax) with free snail mail shipping at the moment. Seems OK (unless anyone has one rolling around in the shed they'd like to part with [thumbsupbig]).

Since there seems to be a host of possible component failures to do with the fuel system perhaps a bit more info via the iiD would be smart before replacing the HPFP.

[Jeffoir]

Maybe I should have bought a Toyota? Land Rover Discovery 3 - High Pressure Fuel Pump replacement - YouTube (https://youtu.be/Q8Q1vnPbQRw'si=DKxti9W0bkjdNn9k)

[Bananas]

Cheers Jeffoir
Yes, under the green tarp in the rain!

I just drove 3h home from where we spent easter and got within the last 30 mins before the red triangle followed by the yellow triangle followed by Gearbox Fault followed by Restricted Performance.

I had the iCarsoft hooked up monitoring the 'Fuel Pressure' (more on that in a sec) so I did a scan, 2 faults were recorded: P117D "Fuel volume regulator exceeded maximum control limit" and U2023 "Fault received from external node". I restarted and drove on. 2 Gearbox Faults later and we're home.

Interestingly I reckon the car felt underpowered at times which is something I haven't really noticed before. In fact the second fault occurred pulling away uphill from lights. The car was definitely sluggish then on the 1st to 2nd change it crapped out.

Before setting off I set the iCarsoft to display live values for the fuel pressure. At least I checked the Fuel Pressure box in the list of options. The first thing I noticed is that the values jump all over the place. At idle the values fluctuate from about 25 to 32 ish MPa. When driving the values under moderate load were fluctuating between about 72 to about 85 MPa. Up the Mt Ousley hill with the foot down (probably 80% throttle) I saw the values jump into the 98 to 120 MPa range. Coasting along the values danced around 42 MPa.

Assuming this 'Fuel Pressure' value is the relevant value a) is this fluctuating normal b) do these values sound normal?

[PerthDisco]

The hpfp fail codes include

Engine TDV6
•P2290-00 (6C) Injector control pressure too low

P0087-00 (2F) Fuel rail/system pressure - too low

[BradC]

Assuming this 'Fuel Pressure' value is the relevant value a) is this fluctuating normal b) do these values sound normal?

Completely normal. Fuel pressure is ramped up as torque demand & RPM increases and fluctuating values is absolutely normal.

As a complete WAgeneralization the failure mode on these appears to be when there's a moderate demand (like cruise control on the freeway) and a slight increase in power is required. The PCV is commanded to "open a bit more" and it sticks. If you were to drive manually and every throttle request was a decent stab it doesn't tend to happen. I guess you can't do that with an Auto because it'll kick down.

When it sticks, if you happened to be watching your PCV vs Pressure graphs you'd see the PCV command spike. On mine I set an alarm in the GAP to beep when the PCV >= 50%. It almost never gets there under normal driving, but when it sticks the ECU winds it "fully open" and after ~2 seconds of not seeing an increase in fuel pressure you get the fault. If you get off the throttle and stab it back on again before the fault registers you've avoided it that time.

Of course yours might be different. When mine first started to play up I was seeing VCV faults, but within 2 or 3 faults it always came down to low injector pressure and was the PCV sticking. One day when I get a moment I'll strip the pump I have here and dismantle the valves for a look. I've been saying that since 2019, so don't hold your breath.

[Bananas]

@PerthDisco I haven't seen P2290-00 or P0087-00 (yet?)

@BradC I'll order a GAP iiD today to try to get a better picture of what's going on.

Thanks again guys. I would still be on the hunt for gear box problems. if it was not for your suggestions.

[PerthDisco]

I’m not convinced you’ve got hpfp problems just yet especially with the rev surging issue

[Bananas]

Cheers PerthDisco

I drove today and tried to focus on the surging to see if how I previously described it is accurate. It seems like it should be easy one but I cannot say for sure whether it's a monetary power cut or power increase. I'm almost certain it's momentary power cuts because it really does feel like a petrol engine missing. One thing I noticed is that I over stated the degree to which the tacho needle bounces. I said earlier it was bouncing by about 500 rpm. From what I observed today it's more like 200 rpm and it bounces both sides of the rpm I'm driving at; lower first then overshoots then settles on the actual RPM, then repeats until I put my foot down a little or shift to S. In S it is only slightly noticeable, but I previously said shifting to S stopped the surging altogether. What is certain though is that the surging occurs as the load on the engine increases. I could not feel the surge coating on teh flat or down hill, only up hill.

I read more about the P117D fault and learned this relates to the fuel volume control valve (VCV) which is one of the cans permanently crimped on to the HPFP. From what I understood, the P117D fault indicates that the VCV is either receiving too much or too little fuel from the lift pump.

I haven't tested the LPFP yet, so that can be this weekend's treat along with a new fuel filter.

[discorevy]

FWIW bananas, I suspect you might have 2 issues.
1: HPFP.
2: Torque converter, this one can be temporarily ameliorated by changing the fluid and adding 2 tubes of lubegard shudderfix, this may not work if you're towing heavy though.

[DiscoJeffster]

Yes I think you have the dreaded HP26 gearbox torque converter issue along with a failing HPFP. Both common issues.

[Bananas]

Thanks. I was beginning to wonder whether there could be more than 1 issue. Bugger it’s not just new wipers and an indicator globe 😕

[PerthDisco]

Resharing this very useful hpfp video

P0088 P0087 Ford Territory Diesel Fuel System and how it works - YouTube (https://youtu.be/y2tjNC4qrr4)

[Bananas]

Thanks. I finally got around to watching the vid. It was very helpful.

[loanrangie]

If you can find a new one (not a refurb) for less than $2.5k now, grab it and run.


Jefferson Ford here in Melbourne they are $2200.

[PerthDisco]

Jefferson Ford here in Melbourne they are $2200.

I did try them and was on back order in fact the one I bought was reselling Jefferson Ford parts

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240406/e8cba9eff9f9a45d845e5e922475c135.jpg

Bought off below who I found via EBay. $2200 plus $30 delivery was relieved when it got to my doorstep.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240406/7d993b86fb4a19583c1deceae0f04141.jpg

[Bananas]

Very helpful. Thanks.

[Bananas]

Alrighty...things have taken a bit of a turn today and I've got codes galore.

I usually fill up at our local 7-11 and in the last 1/3 or so of the last tank the car has been driving to and from work quite well with almost no surging. I was kidding myself that perhaps I had a blocked injector or something that had miraculously cleared - if that is even a thing. On Sunday at about 1/4 tank I filled up at a Shell and within about a minute I was getting the familiar surges again.

At about 10 am today I got a Gearbox Fault / Restricted Performance. I scanned with my iCarsoft and saw 3 codes I had not seen before: P2290 "injector control pressure too low' and P0730 "Incorrect gear ratio" and P0191 "Fuel rail pressure sensor range/performance" and the familiar U2023 "Fault received from external node"

I get back to work to see my shiny new GAP iiD G3 had arrived from British Offroad in QLD (paid yesterday arrived in Sydney today) . So at lunch I plug it in and have a play so I can watch some snappy graphs on the way home. And what timing.

Right at the first incline where I usually get some tacho needle bouncing and surging I get the first Gearbox Fault / Restricted Performance. So I scan with the GAP and I get:

P0087-00 (2F) Fuel rail/system pressure - too low (first time I have seen this one)
U2023-86 (2F) Control module network signal calibration data - Bus signal/message failure - signal is invalid

Just up the road driving normally on the first gear change I get:

P117D-00 (6C) Fuel volume regulator control exceeded maximum control limit
U2023-86 (2E) Control module network signal calibration data - Bus signal/message failure - signal is invalid


A bit further up another hill (same codes):

P117D-00 (6C) Fuel volume regulator control exceeded maximum control limit
U2023-86 (2E) Control module network signal calibration data - Bus signal/message failure - signal is invalid

At this stage I started crawling but got a bit careless on the pedal and instantly got this for a bit of a variety:


P2290-00 (2F) Injector control pressure too low (first time I have seen this one)
U2023-86 (2F) Control module network signal calibration data - Bus signal/message failure - signal is invalid

I was really careful but had another hill to climb and I got:


P2290-00 (2F) Injector control pressure too low
U2023-86 (2F) Control module network signal calibration data - Bus signal/message failure - signal is invalid

So now I'm pretty sold on the fuel angle. I have a new fuel filter and was planning to change it this weekend and test the LPFP for correct operation and perhaps drop and drain the fuel tank to rule those out.

Should I just accept the HPFP diagnosis? Or should I still go fishing for a blockage somewhere? With that run of limp modes the car is on holiday now anyway.

[BradC]

Get a pressure gauge on the fuel feed schraeder, cable tie it to a windscreen wiper arm so you can see it from the drivers position and go for a drive. That will rule out both your LPFP & fuel filter in one hit. I had no issue driving around with the LPFP fuse out entirely. The feed pump in the HPFP will suck a golf ball through a straw, The issue is the pressure drop in the fuel system will boil the diesel under low pressure and the cavitation will destroy the feed pump, which then sends debris into the valves & high pressure pump.

So you need the LPFP to stop the HPFP lunching itself. It us also necessary to operate the jet ejector in the fuel tank that makes sure fuel is pumped uphill on a low tank and high grade descent (nose down).

A pressure gauge will allow you to rule out the entire system south of the HPFP assembly in one drive, as long as the fault occurs on that drive. Just watch the pressure. If it dips when it faults then suspect something else. If (as in my case) the pressure remains steady, in whatever that is at the time then it's the HPFP.

[loanrangie]

P0730 incorrect gear ratio is definitely trans related and not a cause of the HPFP so you likely have 2 issues going on here.

[Bananas]

Thanks again guys.

My unqualified spider sense agrees. I'm still pretty suss on the solenoids in the control module since I'd say at least 90% of the faults seem to occur on a gear change. But I really don't have anything to back up my suspicions. Dr Google seems to suggest P0703 indicated issues with solenoids and/or TC.

I'll get the LPFP checks done and change the filter this weekend so at very least I can check those off. Testing and cleaning the injectors is also on my list, but I could probably park that for now.

[PerthDisco]

Thanks again guys.

My unqualified spider sense agrees. I'm still pretty suss on the solenoids in the control module since I'd say at least 90% of the faults seem to occur on a gear change. But I really don't have anything to back up my suspicions. Dr Google seems to suggest P0703 indicated issues with solenoids and/or TC.

I'll get the LPFP checks done and change the filter this weekend so at very least I can check those off. Testing and cleaning the injectors is also on my list, but I could probably park that for now.

BradC is the guru and helped me solve mine. On Disco3.uk there is a test procedure “Robbie’s Guide” and pictures for the LPFP test setup.

You are definitely getting the HPFP suss codes.

Then record on GAP the PCV, VCV. Fuel Rail and throttle live data graphically. I eventually caught the fault after changing filter and testing LPFP to determine sticky PCV. Mine would go weeks without fault so that was hard to catch.

See here it goes off the chart at time of limp fault on dash. Only then on the advice of Dr BradC was the new hpfp purchased.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240410/a6964bafae6cef11ac66124b01bfdbeb.jpg

[Bananas]

Thanks PerthDisco. Yes I’ve read just about all of BradC’s posts on the subject in various threads and in his own epic diagnosis series and he has been helpful on this thread. Thanks BradC! I have Robbie’s test procedure printed and have cobbled together a test gauge.

The capture you have shown is helpful. With only 1 day under my belt with the GAP tool I’ve made some snappy looking logs but have not yet got my head around deciphering them.

[Bananas]

Putting the horse slightly before the cart I figure I'll just get a pump. Even if by slim change I don't need it now chances are I'll need it eventually.

This one? (assuming 'In Stock' means in stock)
Genuine Ford SZ Territory/Lion Diesel Fuel Injection Pump (https://www.jeffersonfordparts.com.au/new-genuine-ford-sz-territory-fuel-injection-pump)


Or is this a roll of the dice:
2.7L Diesel LR017367 High Pressure Fuel Injector P… - Land Rover & Jaguar Parts Manufacturer Wholesaler China (https://www.germaxparts.com/land-rover-part/high-pressure-fuel-injector-pump-2-7l-diesel-lr017367-lr005549-lr009666-7h2q9b395ch-gl2201/)

[Jeffoir]

Hi Bananas
You can get a 5% discount at Jefferson by subscribing to their email.

[Bananas]

It’s a nice feeling successfully diagnosing and repairing a tricky fault. You earn a moment where you can bask in the glow of your cleverness. I do anyway. And then you go and do something like this…

I pull the trigger on the fuel pump, I watch and read all I can about wrestling the old one out and the new in, I psych myself for grazed knuckles, the 3D puzzle ahead, the dropped bolts, the dwindling daylight with so much still to do and so on. I am at peace and actually looking forward to it.

The disco has had a few days off to think about how it’s behaving. I get home from work with about 30 mins of light left so I figured I’d get the LPFP checks done. First step, check the current draw. I open the door to see that I had left the GAP tool in the OBD port for 3 days. It’s warm and I think, that was dumb, I wonder how much it draws.

I check the LPFP current with the ignition on, but without starting the engine. Just under 8 amps. Off to a good start. I figure I’ll check again with the engine on before moving to the pressure test. Yep. Not enough grunt in the battery to turn it over [bighmmm] So I take the battery out of the car since it’s parked on the street so I can charge it inside, have a cup of tea, then head back out to scoop up the tools and lock up for the night (anyone see the problem here) [bighmmm][bighmmm]

So with the battery now on charge, an unlocked car on the street (too lazy to reinstall the battery for now) and a fuel pump that has not arrived in time for the weekend (it would have been a miracle if it had - but that is beside the point), I’m left feeling the exact opposite to the wonderful feeling of accomplishment I look forward to! Oh well. At least I know not to leave the GAP tool plugged in and I am reminded not just to rush into things BEFORE a cup of tea.

And yet I’m still looking forward to the job once the pump arrives. I still have the filter to install tomorrow to restore a tiny shred of dignity.

What a muppet!

[BradC]

And yet I’m still looking forward to the job once the pump arrives.

It took me 9 hours over 4 sessions. I had bruised forearms skinned knuckles and put on 3 kilos from the beer I drank. It worked though.

[Bananas]

Well...look what we have here. Do I have the smoking gun?

Battery back in, clear all faults (I figure most will be from the flat battery), start logging, pull out from the curb - 'Gearbox Fault' almost immediately:

189721

Scan faults - only 1 fault now showing on the GAP:

189719

Clear faults, restart: again with the same fault as shown above:

189722

I still need to check the LPFP pressure for good measure but these graphs have a striking similarity to those posted by BradC and PerthDiso.

Do I have this right? As the load on the engine increases or more accelerator is applied, naturally more fuel needs to be forced by the HPFP into the fuel rail. The pressure control valve gets the the command to open to increase the fuel pressure. If the fuel pressure does not increase as expected it's likely the PCV is physically stuck and cannot open to force more fuel from the HPFP into the rail. The ECU continues to shout louder at the PCV (which is still looking at it's phone and not listening). The ECU command hits a 50% ish threshold (is this even a thing) and has a tantrum and shuts the show down.

Alternatively, assuming the PCV is behaving there could be a blocked filter etc, but from the balance of others experiences, a sad PCV is more likely.

[BradC]

That’s pretty much it in a nutshell unfortunately. I got temporary relief by using the expensive BP diesel, but it could well just have been coincidence.

[PerthDisco]

Yep the 87 code is very hpfp linked as per the video link.

Have fun. I did about 11 hours but was stuck unbolting the hpfp for about 3. Don’t forget you need a new tensioner and belt as that’s another boondoggle to reuse.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240413/13f2f59555cf8c45418b455ca0d84ce8.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240413/6524b7858da8804c02c21a7a6da2ba6c.jpg

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240413/1163703833c7649376eb1c2d5ab6b573.jpg

There’s a great description on the job on Disco3. Front bolts on hpfp are tricky you need to work a ratchet spanner on a torqs bit. Very slow all blind by fingertips .

The back bolts fought me with loctite and then seized the spacer inside against the frame which was another hour puzzle to solve.

Hope pics help. Plug everything with caps on the fuel side. Alfoil works well as well as a temporary seal.

[Bananas]

Awesome guys. Much appreciated. Glad to have a pretty reliable diagnosis. 1 belt and 1 slab of beer to add to the prep list. Anything else? Bandaids? Coins for the swear jar? I’ll be hitting refresh on the pump tracking number all week and if it arrives in time I’ll devote next weekend to the task.

[PerthDisco]

Awesome guys. Much appreciated. Glad to have a pretty reliable diagnosis. 1 belt and 1 slab of beer to add to the prep list. Anything else? Bandaids? Coins for the swear jar? I’ll be hitting refresh on the pump tracking number all week and if it arrives in time I’ll devote next weekend to the task.

Christian only removed the HP pipes at the hpfp. I followed the guide and removed the passenger side completely but avoiding that would be good. The drivers side springs up quite high out of the way.

Getting spanners on them is difficult. This helped a lot

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240413/a18f954446e5f8ab148397812e1346d1.jpg

[Bananas]

I just took a few moments to take a look at the engine to help psych up for the weekend and to see if I could see anything else obvious that could do with attention. The only thing that jumped out was some oily reside around the blanking plug on the rear of the intercooler air box and a broken cap on the blanking plug.

I'll get another if I can find one, but is the oily residue a sign of anything particularly gnarly?

189756

@Jeffoir, I went ahead and ordered the Territory pump from Jefferson Ford with the 5% discount. Thanks for the tip! I got a message today to say it's on the way.

Of some concern, soon after 25:05 in his Part 1 video Jugaar mentions he's not confident the Territory pump and the Land Rover pumps are interchangeable despite having the same part number. Helpful videos all the same...

Part 1: Ford Territory Injector Pump (High Pressure Fuel Pump) Removal, Belt removal Part 1 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDZeBwya0fE)
Part 2: Ford Territory SZ Diesel High Pressure Fuel Pump (Injector Pump) Installation. Part 2 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeCC_5-hnvM)

[PerthDisco]

I’m pretty confident I got the last brand new genuine one in Australia late last year out of Victoria via a Ford parts reseller ($2200). Everyone else had them on back order but with no resupply time known.

All the major LR online part’s outlets stock reman. United Fuel Injection in Perth a VDO supplier stock reman.

I’d like to know how many LR have in stock as they quote them as available ($4300).

If you watch LR Time Fabian has the hpfp fault which they change for a reman which fails again exactly the same and they then replace with a brand new one. Not a job you want to do twice.

Old v New

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240331/0f02d03f7d1d15bf154b52b43f9b9d00.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240331/2b7929f85172e7d4227f2da0d9bbe7db.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240331/079128395a3d7c748e40f84882e00c94.jpg

Here is my original LR pump and the replacement Ford Territory pump.

They are all good videos and he reuses the tensioner which is interesting.

If you have not deleted your EGRs the intake will be stuffed with horrible black goo so that’s a good job to clean up.

The orings on the intake Y are very worthwhile to replace as get hard and goo affected at the manifold end.

Your biggest thrill will be removing the oil separator which on a LR is 99% impossible.

You will also experience the plastic wiring harness conduit fracturing into small pieces so constant vacuuming is necessary.

[Bananas]

Excellent, thanks. Looks like I'll be fine in that case.

7H2Q9B395CH on the sticker on your pump
7H2Q9B395CH on the box Jeffoir's came in
H27Q9B395CH on the Jefferson Ford website - I'll go with TYPO as the explanation

Genuine Ford SZ Territory/Lion Diesel Fuel Injection Pump (https://www.jeffersonfordparts.com.au/new-genuine-ford-sz-territory-fuel-injection-pump)

Only 5 sleeps to go [thumbsupbig]

[PerthDisco]

Excellent, thanks. Looks like I'll be fine in that case.

7H2Q9B395CH on the sticker on your pump
7H2Q9B395CH on the box Jeffoir's came in
H27Q9B395CH on the Jefferson Ford website - I'll go with TYPO as the explanation

Genuine Ford SZ Territory/Lion Diesel Fuel Injection Pump (https://www.jeffersonfordparts.com.au/new-genuine-ford-sz-territory-fuel-injection-pump)

Only 5 sleeps to go [thumbsupbig]

FORD PART NO: 7H2Q9B395.

VDO PART NO: A2C59513482. 5WS40273

LR PART NO: LR017367

[shack]

Re the gearbox fault.

I'd be doing the HPFP before worrying about anything else.

The HPFP more wiring properly could cause a myriad of faults, especially when commanded positions aren't achieved..

Not saying the auto is fine, but you are flying blind on all other faults until the pump is fixed.

[Bananas]

Thanks again guys.

Ordered a new belt and tensioner today: LR019115A

Hopefully the right one:
DAYCO Timing Belt Kit for Land Rover Discovery 3 & Range Rover Sport TDV6 LR019115 (https://www.4wdindustries.com.au/dayco-timing-belt-kit-land-rover-discovery-3-range)

4 more sleeps.

[BradC]

Do not pull the pin out of the tensioner until you absolutely have the belt in the right alignment with the pulleys. I didn't and having the belt too close to the housing meant I had to "reposition it" before the covers went back on.

[Bananas]

Cheers BradC. Good tip.

Pump ordered late last week. Arrived today. Top marks!

189792189793189794

[PerthDisco]

Good news and seems to indicate new hpfp stock is now in the system.

[Bananas]

I was terrified opening the box wondering if I had actually bought a remanufactured unit or something altogether different to what I thought I had pruchaced.

I received a quote from Germax in China and found that they only offer reman units which ended up being the same price landed as the new Territory HPFP from Jefferson Ford.

Hence my concern opening the box today. When something seems too good to be true...it's usually because it's too good to be true. In this case however it seems the LR gods (who chose to take the form of a Ford today) were playing nice. Thanks again to Jeffoir.

[Eric SDV6SE]

I was terrified opening the box wondering if I had actually bought a remanufactured unit or something altogether different what I thought I had pruchaced.

I received a quote from Germax in China and found that they only offer reman units which ended up being the same price landed as the new Territory HPFP from Jefferson Ford.

Hence my concern opening the box today. When something seems too good to be true...it's usually because it's too good to be true. In this case however it seems the LR gods (who chose to take the form of a Ford today) were playing nice. Thanks again to Jeffoir.

Given the 2010-2014 D4's have a bucketload of FoMoCo parts on them, it makes sense they'd carry the correct parts

[Bananas]

Well I got the pump in but I’m stuck with the belt and tensioner. I ordered LR019115 euro 4 belt and tensioner. The belt is 80 tooth. But the belt that has come off is 82 teeth and is slightly longer. I just cannot get the new belt on. So it seems I’m buggered.

Anyone else had a similar experience?

The car is a D4 2011 so I thought I had ordered the correct part.

[PerthDisco]

Well I got the pump in but I’m stuck with the belt and tensioner. I ordered LR019115 euro 4 belt and tensioner. The belt is 80 tooth. But the belt that has come off is 82 teeth and is slightly longer. I just cannot get the new belt on. So it seems I’m buggered.

Anyone else had a similar experience?

The car is a D4 2011 so I thought I had ordered the correct part.

Yes 82 teeth and EU3 is 85 teeth

LR004708 941040 PUMP BELT DAYCO 82 TOOTH 2 7 TDV6 EU4 FROM VIN 7A (https://www.advancedfactors.co.uk/lr004708-941040-pump-belt-dayco-82-tooth-27-tdv6-eu4-from-vin-7a-2589-p.asp)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240420/cb6ff373ebaa30a66e844b60153f3103.jpg

[Bananas]

Thanks. Here’s the kit and the belt that came in the box. Seems someone has already counted the teeth and put it back in the box

[Bananas]

Bugger. I ordered the right kit and the box that came had the right kit number on the sticker. Unfortunately the wrong belt was in the box.
The belt that should have been there was DAYCO 941040 (82 tooth).
The belt that came in the box was DAYCO 941042 (80 tooth).

[DiscoJeffster]

Bugger. I ordered the right kit and the box that came had the right kit number on the sticker. Unfortunately the wrong belt was in the box.
The belt that should have been there was DAYCO 941040 (82 tooth).
The belt that came in the box was DAYCO 941042 (80 tooth).

Gutted for you buddy. You’re doing so well! Maybe a trip to a dealer Monday so you can get it sorted?

[Bananas]

Cheers mate. Yeah. Bad luck. I reckon I'd have it running by now if the right belt was in the box. Super longshot but a nearby Auto Barn has the right ones listed and 'enquire in store' so I'm not holding my breath.

The job has been so much harder so far than my apprenticeship by Google had lead me to believe it would be. Getting there though.

[BradC]

Given you've already got the pump in and not posted "How the **** do I get the oil separator out?" it seems you're ahead of the pack.

[Bananas]

Hahahaha! 3 hours of of the worst language I could muster. Damn near demolished the car to get it out. Had to partially remove the plastic cable tray that runs across the top and also remove the clip-on cap thingo (hope I didn’t damage the diaphragm) and I made a meal of the yellow insulation on the firewall where the sharp cap clips around the top dug in. Then ‘pop’ out it came and progress resumed.

I may well be posting how the **** do I get it back in.

[PerthDisco]

Hahahaha! 3 hours of of the worst language I could muster. Damn near demolished the car to get it out. Had to partially remove the plastic cable tray that runs across the top and also remove the clip-on cap thingo (hope I didn’t damage the diaphragm) and I made a meal of the yellow insulation on the firewall where the sharp cap clips around the top dug in. Then ‘pop’ out it came and progress resumed.

I may well be posting how the **** do I get it back in.

The oil separator description from 10:20 is definitive here for EU4 2.7 engines. Can do in 5 minutes following this and reinstallation is equally difficult if don’t follow this orientation guide

Maybe I should have bought a Toyota? Land Rover Discovery 3 - High Pressure Fuel Pump replacement - YouTube (https://youtu.be/Q8Q1vnPbQRw'si=ifO-FCVuTHJzNklg)

[BradC]

For me the "secret" was to unclip the fuel return line from the rear passenger side of the vee. With that out of the way I could rotate the oil separator far enough it just slipped out (no force required). Same on the way back in. I don't know if there's any difference in the scuttle on the D4 that makes that harder.

It did take me between 3 and 4 hours to figure that out however.

[Bananas]

Thanks again guys. Your help and encouragement is gold. I ordered the he correct belt and should have it tomorrow. I’ll fit it after work and see if I’m up for the 3D jigsaw or save it till Anzac Day. On my D4 there is this plastic moulded cable tray which is full of loose spagetti. It’s fixed to the underside of the scuttle. This is really deep and I can only work out how to take out the LHS (facing forward). On the RHS the brake lines lock it in place and also prevent it from being rotated out. Fortunately it’s flexible ABS or something. Even with this out of the way it was a head scratcher. Even following Christian’s method.

[Bananas]

Balance in the universe is restored. I got the right belt today and it took all of about 10 mins to fit, pull the pin on the tensioner and refit the covers. If only I had the correct belt on Saturday.

I’ll save the oil separator till tomorrow.

[DiscoDB]

On the D3, this is the exact position I could easily slide the oil separator in (or remove). The right side leg (as viewed in photo) easily slides over the passenger side inlet manifold.

Just had to push a bit into the plastic at the back of the engine bay.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240422/79e975be0e9da797afbd2ff4882a1166.jpg

[Bananas]

Quick task before heading home (car is at work where I am performing the surgery) the dreaded oil separator. But it only fought for about 15 mins before relenting, popping into place then looking back at me all innocently and saying quite audibly 'see - it wasn't that hard now was it'.

What a horrendous piece of design from a service perspective. Oh well. Done now. Thankfully.

[Bananas]

Hopefully not speaking out loud too soon but it's alive!

I had some trouble starting though. I jammed a multimeter in the lpfp fuse holder and ran the lpfp a few times into a bucket to make sure I was getting fuel. Then I put the fuse back in and connected the fuel lines. Ran the lpfp a few more times then started. I got a rough coughing idle then flame out. Ran the lpfp a few more times then started. Barely a cough. Repeated this 2 more times. A cough and a weeze at best. Poor battery.

So then I had a coffee and a back to basics think about things. I pulled the fuel lines again and ran the lpfp a few times. No fuel. I jammed the multimeter back in and ran the lpfp 6 A and fuel happily flowing into the bucket. Fuel lines back on. Ran lpfp 4 times with the multimeter in to see if the pump was pulling current. 6 A on each lpfp cycle. So I turned it over. It breathes, revs well and idles nicely! No faults on the GAP as a bonus.

The fuze is fine but it looks like jamming a multimeter into blade style fuse holders isn't a very clever thing to do. Looks like I bent one of the contacts. I'll unbend it and hopefully head off on the maiden voyage soon after a clean up and a calm down.

[Bananas]

Have you ever seen anything more beautiful…

[DiscoJeffster]

Congrats buddy. You’ll soon fall back in love with it. Starting them after messing with the high pressure side always taxes the battery and then you find it’s not got enough grunt to keep the voltage up and the injectors to fire. When I did my injectors I needed to get a new battery to get it to fire.

[Bananas]

Thanks. I’m pretty happy and if I didn’t post I reckon I may have had a rebuilt gearbox by now and still no solution. I’ll get the battery on charge. It certainly copped a beating during the failed attempts at starting.

All up, including the messing around with the wrong belt, cleaning grime and finding the bent fuse holder I reckon it took me 12 long hours over 2 days with 2 little 15 mins tasks in between.

The GAP tool is sure going to get a workout between now and when confidence returns.

[DiscoJeffster]

That’s really good time. I spent 12 hours changing a manifold on mine only to **** up the install and get an oil leak at the rear. Seems you need to apply gasket seal at the rear - I find out afterwards.

[Bananas]

Ouch!
I will say that when the engine didn’t spring into life on the first go I was thinking oh no, do I really need to start over??!! Not a nice feeling.

[PerthDisco]

Well done! My celebrations were short lived when a fuel leak gave me 5 days of hunting and tweaking and fixing to make it go away.

[loanrangie]

Lots of good info here, i may be staring down the barrel of HPFP replacement in the near future, something i had been dreading for years.
I think its one of the 3 big ticket items, engine,trans and HPFP.

[Bananas]

@ Loanrangie whilst I don't envy you I can say that the only thing that made the job difficult was getting the oil separator in and out. Even with the helpful pointers from members and videos online, it was still a massive struggle and a test of patience. Most other jobs were far less daunting than I was thinking they could be. You take a fair few bits off and disconnect all sorts of connectors, but if you take lots of photos and are organised it all goes back together easily (all except the oil separator!!). Apart from this, having the wrong belt didn't help and messing up the fuse holder for the LPFP fuse had me guessing. I don't want to do another, but I would feel pretty comfortable the 2nd time around.

But I feel like a true Land Rover owner now and it looks like the group diagnosis - faulty HPFP / pressure control valve - was correct or partially correct at least. I'm not out of the woods yet. Shak and Loanrangie might have called it: more than one issue. With 320k, I'm not surprised.

There appears to be something still not quite right in the transmission. Perhaps torque converter, perhaps solenoids and sleeves. Or both. Does anyone have any suggestions on a process to diagnose using the GAP?

I'm not getting any codes but I get a slight shudder every so often (TC no doubt), but what really has me guessing is an occasional series of surges I described earlier in this thread. It happens most when coasting up a hill in D. Putting my foot down or shifting to S cures it immediately. If I try hard enough I can get it to do it in S too but it's barely noticeable. It feels to me like a gear change is being initiated but then decides to stay in the current gear or like tapping the clutch pedal in a manual. With the HPFP changed it seems that the 'Gearbox Fault' has gone away and the engine in general just feels so much more lively. So it would be good to find a cure in time for this too. I don't mind just ripping in and changing the solenoids and sleeves anyway but the TC is above my LR owner status for now.

I'd like to get on and clean the injectors next. I would prefer to pull them to check the spray patterns but then again I'm not against a lazy bottle of additive in the diesel tank. Does anyone have any advice either way?

Thanks far all of the help so far.

[loanrangie]

@ Loanrangie whilst I don't envy you I can say that the only thing that made the job difficult was getting the oil separator in and out. Even with the helpful pointers from members and videos online, it was still a massive struggle and a test of patience. Most other jobs were far less daunting than I was thinking they could be. You take a fair few bits off and disconnect all sorts of connectors, but if you take lots of photos and are organised it all goes back together easily (all except the oil separator!!). Apart from this, having the wrong belt didn't help and messing up the fuse holder for the LPFP fuse had me guessing. I don't want to do another, but I would feel pretty comfortable the 2nd time around.

But I feel like a true Land Rover owner now and it looks like the group diagnosis - faulty HPFP / pressure control valve - was correct or partially correct at least. I'm not out of the woods yet. Shak and Loanrangie might have called it: more than one issue. With 320k, I'm not surprised.

There appears to be something still not quite right in the transmission. Perhaps torque converter, perhaps solenoids and sleeves. Or both. Does anyone have any suggestions on a process to diagnose using the GAP?

I'm not getting any codes but I get a slight shudder every so often (TC no doubt), but what really has me guessing is an occasional series of surges I described earlier in this thread. It happens most when coasting up a hill in D. Putting my foot down or shifting to S cures it immediately. If I try hard enough I can get it to do it in S too but it's barely noticeable. It feels to me like a gear change is being initiated but then decides to stay in the current gear or like tapping the clutch pedal in a manual. With the HPFP changed it seems that the 'Gearbox Fault' has gone away and the engine in general just feels so much more lively. So it would be good to find a cure in time for this too. I don't mind just ripping in and changing the solenoids and sleeves anyway but the TC is above my LR owner status for now.

I'd like to get on and clean the injectors next. I would prefer to pull them to check the spray patterns but then again I'm not against a lazy bottle of additive in the diesel tank. Does anyone have any advice either way?

Thanks far all of the help so far.

Your shifting issue was pretty much what i was getting, it would shift 1-2 okay but the 2-3 falters and it goes into limp mode and locks in 3rd.
Light throttle it was ok but if i pushed it up a slight incline it would fault.

[PerthDisco]

I'd like to get on and clean the injectors next. I would prefer to pull them to check the spray patterns but then again I'm not against a lazy bottle of additive in the diesel tank. Does anyone have any advice either way?

Thanks far all of the help so far.

I'm onto the 2-stroke oil now 1 litre occassionally per full tank.

[Eric SDV6SE]

@ Loanrangie whilst I don't envy you I can say that the only thing that made the job difficult was getting the oil separator in and out. Even with the helpful pointers from members and videos online, it was still a massive struggle and a test of patience. Most other jobs were far less daunting than I was thinking they could be. You take a fair few bits off and disconnect all sorts of connectors, but if you take lots of photos and are organised it all goes back together easily (all except the oil separator!!). Apart from this, having the wrong belt didn't help and messing up the fuse holder for the LPFP fuse had me guessing. I don't want to do another, but I would feel pretty comfortable the 2nd time around.

But I feel like a true Land Rover owner now and it looks like the group diagnosis - faulty HPFP / pressure control valve - was correct or partially correct at least. I'm not out of the woods yet. Shak and Loanrangie might have called it: more than one issue. With 320k, I'm not surprised.

There appears to be something still not quite right in the transmission. Perhaps torque converter, perhaps solenoids and sleeves. Or both. Does anyone have any suggestions on a process to diagnose using the GAP?

I'm not getting any codes but I get a slight shudder every so often (TC no doubt), but what really has me guessing is an occasional series of surges I described earlier in this thread. It happens most when coasting up a hill in D. Putting my foot down or shifting to S cures it immediately. If I try hard enough I can get it to do it in S too but it's barely noticeable. It feels to me like a gear change is being initiated but then decides to stay in the current gear or like tapping the clutch pedal in a manual. With the HPFP changed it seems that the 'Gearbox Fault' has gone away and the engine in general just feels so much more lively. So it would be good to find a cure in time for this too. I don't mind just ripping in and changing the solenoids and sleeves anyway but the TC is above my LR owner status for now.

I'd like to get on and clean the injectors next. I would prefer to pull them to check the spray patterns but then again I'm not against a lazy bottle of additive in the diesel tank. Does anyone have any advice either way?

Thanks far all of the help so far.

ZIP GEN 2 kit, Including the end of line seals, new valve body to transmission seals, mechatronic seal and a full flush, new solenoids and filter and flush should sort that out. TC should still be OK, better do the vb before lots of crud ends up inside the TC. When I did mine it was about 1200 in parts, took a weekend to do. The hpfp sounds like it's much more work.

[loanrangie]

I'm onto the 2-stroke oil now 1 litre occassionally per full tank.

I'm not one to go the snake oil route but i decided to give the 2SO a go but at 400ml per tank, if it can delay the HPFP failing its worth a shot.

[Bananas]

Update on the HPFP....
Still working like a charm. No leaks or weirdness. Time to get the guards and covers back on.

Before I move on to the gearbox I thought I'd add the resources I found helpful in addition to all the amazing help I received from everyone who responded to my questions. Many of these links are well known and some were recommended to me further back in this chain. I try to arm myself with as much info as I can before ripping into something I know nothing about. Hopefully this list will save someone some Google time.

If anyone suspects their HPFP is failing the first thing to do is to read up on BradC's experiences with the Antichrist. His diagnosis and reasoning really helped me imagine what was going on and diagnose mine. @BradC - thanks for sharing your experiences and knowledge!

Second thing, if you don't own a GAP tool, I echo the recommendations I received. I don't think I would have been as confident in my diagnosis without it. Overlaying live data graphs is immensely helpful. Perhaps other OBD readers can achieve the same but that Google rabbit hole sent me back to the GAP ID tool.

Third thing, if you don't have one treat yourself to a compact a ratchet for your sockets with as many teeth on the ratchet as you can afford. Life saver!

Diagnosis and general understanding:
DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Robbie's Guide To The Low Pressure Fuel System (https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/robbies-guide-low-pressure-fuel-system-130062.html)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2tjNC4qrr4

Replacement (Land Rover):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8Q1vnPbQRw
DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - How to replace the HPFP (https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/replace-hpfp-187332.html?highlight=Hpfp)
DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Guide to change removing HPFP on Discovery 3 (https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic191857.html)


Replacement (Ford Territory: same engine as mine 2.7L V6):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDZeBwya0fE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeCC_5-hnvM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gup_xxbZrJA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir3H0auWUJ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihxdb6YG8mg

[Bananas]

I am psyching up to test and clean my injectors and I'm considering cutting corners since time is not my friend at the moment. I figure I need a test and clean kit to do it right and at 320K I guess I'm expecting to find variations between them. So I got a quote for a mobile chap and was surprised: $1,600 to $1,800 (without any replacements that might be deemed necessary). I'm sure the convenience and expertise is worth it. But perhaps I just grab a new set for $1,300:

Ford Territory SZ Diesel Fuel Injectors 2.7 V6 (https://www.jeffersonfordparts.com.au/ford-territory-sz-mkii-2011-onwards-fuel-injectors)

Youtube seems to suggest it's a straight forward enough process. I guess I'll still need to cough up for a seat and shaft chamber cleaning kit.

Is anyone aware of any pitfalls I should be aware of?

Thanks.

[Eric SDV6SE]

I am psyching up to test and clean my injectors and I'm considering cutting corners since time is not my friend at the moment. I figure I need a test and clean kit to do it right and at 320K I guess I'm expecting to find variations between them. So I got a quote for a mobile chap and was surprised: $1,600 to $1,800 (without any replacements that might be deemed necessary). I'm sure the convenience and expertise is worth it. But perhaps I just grab a new set for $1,300:

Ford Territory SZ Diesel Fuel Injectors 2.7 V6 (https://www.jeffersonfordparts.com.au/ford-territory-sz-mkii-2011-onwards-fuel-injectors)

Youtube seems to suggest it's a straight forward enough process. I guess I'll still need to cough up for a seat and shaft chamber cleaning kit.

Is anyone aware of any pitfalls I should be aware of?

Thanks.
Definitely go the new injector route. They are not serviceable, and the $1600 test will only tell you that you need new ones anyway for an extra 1300. They can be a right pita to get out, a special injector puller may be needed, or A slide hammer with a home made adapter to hold onto the injector. You will need crush washers and link pipes, they normally come with the injectors if you buy from the uk suppliers. DO NOT remove the seating brackets and bolts from the injector and then try to start the engine to get them out. They will become bullets and can punch through bonnets, shed walls or nearby hoomans. There's a reason they're held in by a bracket and bolt.

Places like united fuel injection or a reputable diesel mechanic may be your best bet, I'd be ordering the injectors myself and paying the specialists mechanic to do the work. Each injector needs to be coded to the ecu so that the thing knows which injector to fire when and for how long. Hope this helps.

[loanrangie]

No coding required on a 2.7.

[Bananas]

Thanks
That's all the encouragement I need.

[BradC]

But perhaps I just grab a new set for $1,300:

Ford Territory SZ Diesel Fuel Injectors 2.7 V6 (https://www.jeffersonfordparts.com.au/ford-territory-sz-mkii-2011-onwards-fuel-injectors)

Are you really sure that's not $1,300 for *one* injector? They're usually around 6 grand a set.

[loanrangie]

Are you really sure that's not $1,300 for *one* injector? They're usually around 6 grand a set.


Or about GBP1000 for a set ex UK, that does seem like the price for a single.

[Bananas]

Cheers. The Jefferson Ford link says injectors (plural) but has a photo of a single injector. I’ll check before $$!! At 6k a set it that is correct, and a whole new 2.7 engine (again listed on Jefferson Ford page) at 13 k, I reckon the engine seems like a bargain [bigsmile]

I got the IID out this morning for the sake of it. I don’t know how to interpret this but it seems my offsets go out of range somewhere between the 8 to 12% throttle range. Normal or is that a sure sign of sad injectors?

The litres per 100km on the instrument cluster readout indicates about 9.7 l/100km on highway and up to about 13.6 l/100km in start stop traffic. I didn’t take note of the consumption during this log.

190150190151190152190153

[BradC]

I got the IID out this morning for the sake of it. I don’t know how to interpret this but it seems my offsets go out of range somewhere between the 8 to 12% throttle range. Normal or is that a sure sign of sad injectors?

Injector offsets are only valid while idling. As soon as you move off idle their values are undefined. Get it up to operating temperature (coolant and oil) before even beginning to look at your injector balances.

[Tins]

and a whole new 2.7 engine (again listed on Jefferson Ford page) at 13 k, I reckon the engine seems like a bargain [bigsmile]



Except I think you'll find them out of stock. (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/298046-end-era.html)

[Bananas]

Yep - when something sounds too good to be true, it is usually because it is too good to be true. And in this case it was too good to be true by a factor of 6. $1,300 is indeed for 1 injector!

With thi$ in mind, since my offset values at idle seem to be comparable to others I have seen posted I might flip the order on my to do list and do the solenoids etc in the gearbox first.

I'm somewhat convinced that this is actually required, however I do not really know how to diagnose it for sure. The symptoms I have read seem to match the symptoms I'm experiencing. Experience, or lack thereof, being the missing link I guess.

Thanks again for the input. It is very helpful.

[BradC]

solenoids etc in the gearbox first.

Well, it's either going to be the solenoids/seals or the torque converter clutch. Either way unless you are seeing injector out of range messages (< 700 or > 1200 from memory) I'd be looking at the slushbox first.

[PeterOZ]

Very interesting read. I have been experiencing similar transmission issues for some time though not as frequently.
If I give it too much throttle it will slip out of the gear, not sure of which and going into F limp mode with what I suspect is 3rd selected and high RPM. Lock / unlock 3 times clears it and off I go again.
Similarly if I give it too much going up a hill or use cruise control it will try to down shift, doesn't like something and jump back to the high gear then go into limp mode with again 3rd selected.

If I use light throttle around 2k it will behave. I have had TC shudder about 5 years ago and did a tripple flush, new valve body seals, filter and some Dr tran and it settle it down for a long time though it would still present slipping.

I do not get the HPFP codes the OP was getting.
I did a trip Hervey Bay to Gold coast and back with only one fail event and that was me getting cocky going up a hill with too much throttle applied.

I am starting to feel slight what I expect are TC shudders and small deviations in RPM in alignment with said shudders, not major though.
I do get slippage in middle gears, think 3rd is worst but also 4th.

Most of the U codes are cascading CANBUS faults. Below is the fault from recent trip to Gold Coast and back ~ 9 hour round trip.

L319 - Discovery 3 2008
Vehicle scanned on 20-05-2024 15:10
Using IIDTool BT V3.0 B2742
Engine TDV6


U0416-00 (28) Invalid data received from vehicle dynamics control module

Instrument Pack


U0132-87 (28) Lost communication with ride level control module - Bus signal/message failure - missing a message

Terrain Response


U0402-94 (20) Invalid data received from transmission control module - Component failure - unexpected operation
( on 11-05-2024 15:08:22 at 355152 km )

Transmission


P0730-00 (60) Incorrect gear ratio
( on 11-05-2024 15:04:04 at 355146 km )
P0735-00 (60) Gear 5 incorrect ratio
( on 11-05-2024 15:08:21 at 355152 km )


The vehicle was a bit sluggish and at last service before doing the GC trip I cleaned both MAF & MAP sensors which seemed to improve things.
I also tightened the top and bottom clamps on the top intercooler hose as I had a bit of an oil film over the blue silicon intercooler hose though could not find any splits, no hissing and no black smoke under load.

I am thinking the ZF will need a full rebuild inc TC & valve body. It has about 355k on it. My LR indie is making some enquiries on getting it done, send to Sunny coast auto trans rebuilder or down to ZF in Sydney.
Neither is a cheap option.

Hopefully I do not get the dreaded HPFP issue others have had.

cheers
Peter

[Eric SDV6SE]

I reckon the transmission rebuild will resolve most, if not all your described issues. I was quoted 7.5k for an overhaul of the ZF6 HP28 about 2 years ago.

[PeterOZ]

I reckon the transmission rebuild will resolve most, if not all your described issues. I was quoted 7.5k for an overhaul of the ZF6 HP28 about 2 years ago.

I got a quote last year and that was $12K which included recon TC, full VB rebuild, new solenoids etc etc and assume the removal / install.

Not a lot of options up here and I only have one vehicle.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Can you send it to say Brisbane? 12K, wow, that's a tad exorbitant.

Surely a reconditioned unit would be cheaper?

[PeterOZ]

Can you send it to say Brisbane? 12K, wow, that's a tad exorbitant.

Surely a reconditioned unit would be cheaper?

Send the vehicle or just the box? I can get my LR indie to remove and crate up and that is what I am trying o sort, it is where to send it to and need a quote from that who.

Do you know of any good rebuilders in Brisbane?

are recon units available??

[Bananas]

@PeterOZ I cannot help with anything other to say that in my case it I am experiencing a few issues that seem to have some crossover in the symptoms and this makes diagnosis a bit tough for a newbie like me. The help I have had on this thread has been excellent in that regard.

I imagine that with >300k on the clock we can both expect there to be numerous issues all mashed together with a healthy dash of imagination (or paranoia) thrown in as you drive around 20% engaged on the road and 80% on the noises the car makes.

I've parked the injectors for now and am assembling my solenoid and seals shopping list so I can look at the box for a few weeks while I psych up.

Good luck with your rebuild.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Just the transmission. ZF Brisbane specislists:
First Class Automatics - Automatic Transmission Specialist Brisbane
(07) 3050 1917

First Class Automatics - Automatic Transmission Specialist Brisbane - Google Search (https://g.co/kgs/JUf73aJ)

And

ZF Truck Transmissions | GIBBS | New & Used Gearboxes (https://www.gibbstrucktransmissions.com.au/zf-transmissions/)

Or NSW:
ZF Locations - Australia - ZF (https://www.zf.com/site/locations/en/asia_pacific/australia/australia.html#undefined)

I bought parts for my valve body from ZF Malaga here in Perth

[Eric SDV6SE]

.

[PeterOZ]

thanks chaps.
I have it booked in to remove and freight to Ipswich Auto Repairers, spoke to them yesterday and today about it.
Will be getting the modified TC from Triumph Rover spares in Adelaide. They modify the 2.7 TC by fitting the larger clutch from a 3.0.

Will be very pleased to get it all done and have normal driving again.

cheers
Peter

[Bananas]

I had planned to do the solenoids, seals and zip kit this long weekend but I didn't get around to ordering parts on time. Instead I figured a 3.5 hour trip south as the first proper test of the new HPFP and a weekend of only minor Land Rover tasks. (My usual commuter run is 17 mins of less than 50 with one 3 min stretch at about 70kph. Poor car.)

But the Discovery appears to have other plans for me this weekend. About 1.5 h into the trip last night I get Restricted Performance and P023D-22 (2F). Bugger.

Stop, clear code, restart, power - another code. And so on till I reached my destination. Even with the Restricted Performance error in the dash, the car doesn't actually go into limp mode and will sit on 100 easily enough.

Google suggests this vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcKpRylro50

So I check the actuator in the morning to find the same as in the video (actuator moves when cycling the ignition), but same as in the video there's oily gunk on the hose from the turbo to the engine intake. So I clean it off and find that the hose clamp is about 3 full turns of the worm loose. So after tightening it reassembling things and taking a drive I put my foot down. I get a puff of black smoke (nothing too crazy but blacker than I have ever noticed before) and I get the same code. Double Bugger.

So I keep driving for about 5 mins without planting it but letting it creep up to 100. No codes. So I stop, plant it and the car leaps into life like I have not know it to do on my regular commutes to work. No smoke at all. Stop, fang it again and again. Same. No codes, no smoke, great acceleration.

So I count it as a lucky win until I decide to do a victory lap this afternoon and the bad behavior is back. Restricted Performance, P023D-22 (2F). Stop, clear, restart, repeat: I get the code 4 times in the first 5 mins or so of the drive. So I drive on with a light touch for another 15 mins till I get to somewhere I can floor it again. This time no codes, no smoke, great acceleration. I did a ton of acceleration tests all the way back with no codes and great acceleration. (Fully aware of double demerits today). What the heck? Car is going like a champion.

I had the GAP IID logging the trip not really knowing what to read but the 'Boost pressure actuator - Bank 1' value never went above 0.870% even at full acceleration when I am sure the turbo must have been turbo-ing it's little heart out. It would drop as low as 0.522% when coasting. Do these values read 2 decimals out and are trying to say 52 to 87% boost? Is this even a valid live value to help diagnose this issue?

Anyway, a head scratcher for now. I'll try again tomorrow.

Any ideas? Thanks!

[Bananas]

Fingers crossed. New fuel filter, cleaned MAP and MAF sensors and it's going like a champion. MAF sensor bulb was dull but not oily. MAP sensor was concerningly oily (sludgy) leading me to wonder what set of joys that indicates. I opened the fuel filter to satisfy curiosity and there was a little bit of loose black scunge in the bottom but scraping the element with a screwdriver would leave jet black fuel/oil on the screwdriver.

Assuming that's solved for now (please, everybody, don't read this post out loud to tempt fate), it's time to plan for the valve body rebuild.

I have a question though that I'm struggling to find answers for short of dropping the pan and looking at the valve body. The gearbox is a 6HP-26 which I have verified for sure by checking the debossed text on the casting (car is base model 2011 D4 2.7 TDV6). But when I look at the SONAX site for the appropriate zip kit, for ZF they list 4 kits. I assume I need the Generation 1 kit but do I need the kit suitable for units WITH or WITHOUT an 053 separator plate? And assuming I need the version for units WITH the plate, I guess I'll need a new plate too.

Can anyone shed light on this? Thanks.

[DiscoJeffster]

On the side of the box in a nearly impossible position is a manufacturer code which will tell you the series and therefore you can work out the kit you need. That said, I also believe maybe this wasn’t the case for the separator plate and I think I bought both so I was prepared.

Biggest tip - take special notice where the ball bearings go inside. Don’t be like me and assume it’s obvious because you’ll find there are unused ports where there were no bearings so it’s not 1:1. I had to resort to looking for wear marks in the mechatronic unit board to work out where the bearings were meant to be.

[loanrangie]

Fingers crossed. New fuel filter, cleaned MAP and MAF sensors and it's going like a champion. MAF sensor bulb was dull but not oily. MAP sensor was concerningly oily (sludgy) leading me to wonder what set of joys that indicates. I opened the fuel filter to satisfy curiosity and there was a little bit of loose black scunge in the bottom but scraping the element with a screwdriver would leave jet black fuel/oil on the screwdriver.

Assuming that's solved for now (please, everybody, don't read this post out loud to tempt fate), it's time to plan for the valve body rebuild.

I have a question though that I'm struggling to find answers for short of dropping the pan and looking at the valve body. The gearbox is a 6HP-26 which I have verified for sure by checking the debossed text on the casting (car is base model 2011 D4 2.7 TDV6). But when I look at the SONAX site for the appropriate zip kit, for ZF they list 4 kits. I assume I need the Generation 1 kit but do I need the kit suitable for units WITH or WITHOUT an 053 separator plate? And assuming I need the version for units WITH the plate, I guess I'll need a new plate too.

Can anyone shed light on this? Thanks.

You wont know which separator plate you'll need until you drop the oil pan, code on the trans wont help for that but will tell you which zip kit to get.

[Eric SDV6SE]

You wont know which separator plate you'll need until you drop the oil pan, code on the trans wont help for that but will tell you which zip kit to get.

AFAIK you won't know until you split the valve body, the number is hidden by the lugs on the casting. You cab either wait or buy both an A Ora B plate, then resell the one you don't use

[Bananas]

Thanks guys. Good tips. I'll drop the pan and check before ordering parts.

On a good note, on my return home after the long weekend away (and new fuel filter, clean MAP and MAF sensors and fiddling with the air hose on the turbo) the car went very well. In fact I cannot remember ever seeing an average fuel consumption on that trip of less than 8.6 l per 100 km and when I pulled up home the final figure on the dash was 8.0 l per 100 km and I was driving reasonably hard. I think I may have just had a dirty sensor and the ECM was in a tiz so the turbo was limiting to minimum boost. From the manual:

"The turbocharger is designed for fail safe operation. If a fault occurs regarding the control of the unit, the vanes default to
the fully open position so as to produce minimum boost."

[loanrangie]

AFAIK you won't know until you split the valve body, the number is hidden by the lugs on the casting. You cab either wait or buy both an A Ora B plate, then resell the one you don't useNo can tell by the tab that protrudes, no need to split it.

[PerthDisco]

No can tell by the tab that protrudes, no need to split it.

Whilst I love a technical challenge I do wonder if for this process if dropping the removed mechatronics unit off at a ZF repairer might be money well spent if they can do the service kit and all various tests.

Gary Ferraro on YouTube is the guru of ZF service videos

[loanrangie]

Whilst I love a technical challenge I do wonder if for this process if dropping the removed mechatronics unit off at a ZF repairer might be money well spent if they can do the service kit and all various tests.

Gary Ferraro on YouTube is the guru of ZF service videos

Its not difficult and i would do it myself first, i think you'd be unlucky to need to have any of the galleries reamed which is the only reason you'd need to take it anywhere. The zip kit is made in such a way that even if they were slightly worn the improved plungers with o-rings (originals don't have them ) would help seal any minor leakage.

[Bananas]

Thanks again guys. Aiming to drop the pan this weekend to see what’s inside so I can order the right bits. For a first timer it looks like a slow careful day and a half to do the rebuild. We’ll see.

[loanrangie]

Thanks again guys. Aiming to drop the pan this weekend to see what’s inside so I can order the right bits. For a first timer it looks like a slow careful day and a half to do the rebuild. We’ll see.

Some good videos on youtube if you search zf6hp26 sonnax.

[Bananas]

I didn't get around to pulling the pan off a few weeks back to check the valve body and separator version. I have some time today but I do not have a new gasket to use.

Do you think I can get away using the old gasket (perhaps with help from some Loctite 574 or 515) for a few weeks while the new parts arrive? Or do I do something else today?

Thanks!

[loanrangie]

I didn't get around to pulling the pan off a few weeks back to check the valve body and separator version. I have some time today but I do not have a new gasket to use.

Do you think I can get away using the old gasket (perhaps with help from some Loctite 574 or 515) for a few weeks while the new parts arrive? Or do I do something else today?

Thanks!

I reused the duraprene gasket that came with the steel pan and its bone dry.

[Bananas]

Great thanks. I don't mind a bit of weep for a few weeks - it'll motivate me to get the job done. But if I'm going to dump a litre on my driveway in the mean time , that's a different matter.

[PerthDisco]

For interest, during recent replacement of radiator I had to also top off the gearbox since the quantity of oil in radiator is lost.

I used the opportunity to pump out a quantity of oil as well from the supply hose to the radiator. Got about 3.5 litres doing this.

I then went through the fill process at 40C temp and ultimately pumped in about 4.5 - 4.7 litres.

I don’t know what the radiator cooler capacity is but the gearbox behaviour is absolutely restored to smooth changes.

Previously especially on cold start there was a noticeable harsh jump from 1-2. Now it’s gone so assume I was slightly low on oil having read they are extremely sensitive to the correct oil level.

[Bananas]

Pan and filter are off...

Time to pound the credit card [bigwhistle]

[PerthDisco]

With the engine bash plate on is good skills

[Bananas]

Strangely it didn't occur to me to take it off. [bigsmile] Surgeons hands and Buddhist monk level patience. Those 5 along the front are tricky little suckers.
All back together and topped back up. Idling now waiting for 69 deg C transmission oil temp before the final top up below 30 deg C tomorrow morning.

[DiscoJeffster]

Strangely it didn't occur to me to take it off. [bigsmile] Surgeons hands and Buddhist monk level patience. Those 5 along the front are tricky little suckers.
All back together and topped back up. Idling now waiting for 69 deg C transmission oil temp before the final top up below 30 deg C tomorrow morning.

I’m pretty sure you want the gearbox at 36c degrees when topping it off, while the engine is running. That said most of the internet commentary says anything from 30-50c

[Bananas]

Thanks. Seems there are a few different temps quoted. I followed Robbie's Guide but I could not get the transmission oil temp above 61 deg anyway. Even with a 15 min drive. So I gave up, let it cool and did the final top up (once again according to Robbie's Guide).

Drove for 3.5 hours today and it didn't fall out on the road.

But while I was driving I was wondering, do I do the valve body rebuild or do I trade up and get the gearbox rebuilt? I'm hoping to solve shifting weirdness with the valve body rebuild, but there is also a vibration between 117 and 125 km/h ish to solve, a whine from somewhere and a backlash type clunk when accelerating sharply after coasting. I'm guessing the vibration is a prop shaft and the whine is the front diff. Perhaps a rebuild is over the top since the gear box seems otherwise fine except that the TC skips a bit sometimes.

Then there's oil at the turbo intake side I think, and a few other oily bits that should probably only be oily on the inside to fixate on. [bigwhistle]

[DiscoJeffster]

You’ll never get rid of the backlash. It’s a quirk of these. It frustrates the hell out of me too

[DiscoDB]

The ZF procedure for the 6HP26 says the level is correct when a small stream comes out at 40degC.

You start checking between 30-35degC, with the engine idling cycle between D and R (pause briefly at each) then back to P, then remove filler plug and wait for the temperature to hit 40degC where only a small stream should come out.

If you check above 50degC then the resulting level will be too low.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240708/2ea462a0dedeaefd5b528d34bdeeaefc.jpg

[PerthDisco]

Agree 40 is the target. When the gearbox is in R or D with foot on brake is when the temp actually rises. Idling in P doesn’t move the dial.

[DiscoDB]

It is the ZF 8HP that has the different procedure and you need to get above 75degC first to open a thermostat valve, but then wait for it to cool down below 30degC to start the level checking - which is then done between 30-50degC but has more steps involved where you rev the engine at 2000rpm for 30 seconds once above 30degC and also hold it in D, D1, D2, and R for 10 seconds each before then checking the final level.

Whilst 40degC would be the mid point for the correct level the ZF 8HP procedure does not set an exact point like the ZF 6HP as long as you are above 30degC when you start, and still below 50degC by the time you are finished.

With the ZF 6HP26, after an oil change and level check as per the ZF procedure, I still then take it for a drive to get fully hot, then redo the level check procedure starting from cold the next day and rechecking at 40degC. It then may need another top up suggesting the ZF6 procedure probably should add the same “get it hot” step as per the ZF8.

[Bananas]

Thanks very much DiscoDB. That's very helpful.

I'm still psyching for the valve body rebuild. More to the point, trying to scratch out a free weekend. I'll be ordering parts tonight. On the shopping list so far are:

(ZF6HP26)
Zip kit (Still a bit unsure whether I need a Gen 1 or Gen 2 kit)
Solenoids
Filter
Gasket
Oil
Separator plate (I've confirmed I need a B plate)
Valve Body to Transmission seals
Mechatronics Case Connector Seal
Anything else?

(Useful link: 6HP26, 6HP26X - ZF by Transmission | Transmissions (https://www.alltranz.com.au/shop/drivetrain/automatic-transmission/ZF-by-Transmission/6HP26/))

[Eric SDV6SE]

Pretty sure the earlier HP26 takes the Gen 1 ZIP kit, thr later HP28 uses thr Gen2 kit. Flick the team at sonnax an email with the transmission serial number to be extra sure.

[Bananas]

Thank Eric

You are correct. I got nervous and checked with Sonnax. They were super fast with a response and definitive answer. I've been a bit busy at work so have been dragging the chain. It'll be mid Sept before I get to it unfortunately.

Sonnax confirmed I need:


Valve Body Separator Plate: Part No. 95740-052 (1068 327 180 is stamped on my valve body and B052 on the plate in my gearbox).
Zip Kit®: Part No. ZF6-6R60-ZIP (For Gen 1 ZF6Hp19/26/32)


They also suggested this link: Sonnax How to Identify Similar Ford & ZF6 Transmissions — Four Features to Check Before You Begin a Rebuild (https://www.sonnax.com/tech_resources/924-how-to-identify-similar-ford-zf6-transmissions-four-features-to-check-before-you-begin-a-rebuild)

Thanks again to everyone for the tips.

[Bananas]

Committed now. Always the bulk bargain buyer, I went silly with the oil. 20L. The drum may well outlast the car. [biggrin]

[Eric SDV6SE]

You'll be surprised how quick 20l goes, don't forget to flush the front mounted cooler, that takes a good 5-8l on its own....

[DiscoJeffster]

Yeah a good flush with a drop and refill approach takes three rounds of fluid and uses about 18L when I did it.

[Bananas]

Hi Guys

Life has been too busy to devote a full weekend to the D4 so I'm getting everything ready for the Xmas holidays. I have everything for the gearbox job including the Zip Kit, separator plate and associated bits and pieces. This job will hopefully conclude the original reasons for this thread (the new HPFP has been working like a charm but the hesitation when shifting and occasional harsh shift still persist).

However I'm also considering new injectors since the engine is still on the original ones and I just feel in my bones they are well overdue for some love. I get a bit of black smoke pulling away from lights or planting it to overtake. VDO branded ones are only about $530 each so I'm happy to take a 3.5K punt on the exercise (OEM Ford ones are just over 1K each a pop at the moment).

The questions I have are:
- Does anyone know the injector seat size so I can make sure I have the right size seat cutter available when I go to clean the seats? I'm guessing a 17mm flat cutter is the one, but I cannot find anywhere that confirms this.

- Does anyone have any experience with VDO injectors for the D4? BRAND NEW GENUINE VDO FORD TERRITORY 2.7L INJECTOR A2C59513553 – THE DIESEL DOCTOR AUSTRALIA (https://thedieseldraustralia.com.au/products/brand-new-genuine-vdo-ford-territory-2-7l-injector-a2c59513553'srsltid=AfmBOoohg10E0BTn0OA5diFUmvwy8l GbxSaTDf5e5OpdYGubR4iS8owo)

Thanks very much.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Best of luck with the ZF, it's easy once you get into it. Hardest part for me was the cross member and clearance, ended up removing the cross beam and supporting the engine and transmission.

Give me a shout if you need advice.

[Bananas]

You'll be surprised how quick 20l goes, don't forget to flush the front mounted cooler, that takes a good 5-8l on its own....

Started the valve body rebuild this afternoon. Dropped the oil and pan so I'm ready to rumble tomorrow. Watching this video 10x over tonight till I dream about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBhpwIWLBLg

This is a good one too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7DZbrvrI5k

What 's the process of flushing the front mounted cooler? Is this part of the main radiator on the LHS?

[DiscoJeffster]

Rather than trying to clear out all elements of the system, I’ve always taken the approach of a triple flush which gets you to nearly fresh oil.

My biggest advice is pay attention to where the ball bearings reside. There are more locations than ball bearings so make sure you take note where there’re installed in the valve body!

[PerthDisco]

I’ve just done mine just oil & filter and the rubber seal kit.

About 5000km ago when I did the new radiator I put in about 4.5 litres which was the combination of the radiator and a Filo pump out. So I think the radiator capacity is not so large.

Then last week I did another Filo pump out in the afternoon and then dropped the pan and mechatronics plate the following morning to get the maximum gravity fall into the pan.

All in all measured what I took out except what dribbled off the mechatronics I added about 6.5 litres to level it off at 40C.

At the next oil change I’ll do another Filo pump out which is by far the cleanest and easiest way of dealing with the oil. So that gets about 14 or so litres through it over 10k kms.

Driving and changing gears like a dream 308k kms still untouched other than normal service items - touch wood.

If you look at the radiator I cannot see how the transmission fluid enters the main radiator space other than taking volume within the side tank. I assume it’s a circuit inside the tank cooled by the cooled radiator water as the passenger side tank has the outlet for the engine at the bottom which is the most cooled water. My guess is no more than 1 litre for the 2.7D. The pumping speed is also very fast so how this does much cooling is a mystery.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20241223/407a9651234553c15bf25170e567d6c0.jpg

[Bananas]

After a day of distractions I got the valve body rebuilt and new solenoids installed.

I reinstalled the valve body and new sleeve but reconnecting the plug has me stumped for now.

What am I missing? Do you install the plug in the sleeve and then stuff it into the gear box or does the sleeve go in first, then the plug? And should the plastic locking tab move only when the plug is pushed home?

[DiscoJeffster]

After a day of distractions I got the valve body rebuilt and new solenoids installed.

I reinstalled the valve body and new sleeve but reconnecting the plug has me stumped for now.

What am I missing? Do you install the plug in the sleeve and then stuff it into the gear box or does the sleeve go in first, then the plug? And should the plastic locking tab move only when the plug is pushed home?

The sleeve goes into the box. You then attach the plug to the sleeve

[PerthDisco]

After a day of distractions I got the valve body rebuilt and new solenoids installed.

I reinstalled the valve body and new sleeve but reconnecting the plug has me stumped for now.

What am I missing? Do you install the plug in the sleeve and then stuff it into the gear box or does the sleeve go in first, then the plug? And should the plastic locking tab move only when the plug is pushed home?

Yes the sleeve only fits in in the right orientation with the key way. Each time I’ve had tears in my eyes because I can’t push the locking tab back up after several attempts. The only way is to get a large bar or piece of wood and carefully lever the sleeve in the last few mms using the chassis rail. Make sure well lubed. Only when the last mm is achieved the tab effortlessly moves. Then the plug.

Make sure the shift locator is in the right spot also.

[Bananas]

Thanks guys. I'll give it a go now.

This makes it look easy from about 8 minutes to 9.40: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbU5oK0Pwus

It's frustrating when the small tasks become monumental challenges of patience.

[loanrangie]

Make sure you have the pin of the selector located correctly in the plastic slider or you'll be pulling the pan off to adjust it.

[Bananas]

Bugger

Pretty sure I followed all steps very carefully doing the zip kit and solenoids but I've done something wrong.

When selecting reverse it doesn't shift into reverse although the engine pitch changes like it's under load, and I get the dreaded GEARBOX FAULT in the dash.

P0736-62 (2F) Reverse incorrect ratio - Algorithm based failure - Signal compare failure. on the iiD

I have not yet reset the adaptions although I guess that's a logical place to start.

Any ideas?

I have installed:
the zip kit
new separator plate
the 4 tubular seals up into the gear box (these stuck out by about 2 mm before putting the valve body on;
the 'goggles' seal
the transmission plug sleeve
solenoids
All bolts torqued to the correct values.

I put about 3 litres lifeguard 6 in and was just starting the warm up procedure to top to the correct level.

Bugger

[Bananas]

So I consulted Dr Google and low fluid level was listed as a possible cause to this fault (makes sense) so I cleared adaptions but still got the fault then continued with the top up. Close to full fluid at 35 deg c - no fault! Slips nicely into reverse and drive.

Not quite counting my chickens yet.....

[PerthDisco]

So I consulted Dr Google and low fluid level was listed as a possible cause to this fault (makes sense) so I cleared adaptions but still got the fault then continued with the top up. Close to full fluid at 35 deg c - no fault! Slips nicely into reverse and drive.

Not quite counting my chickens yet.....

40C is correct a slight trickle should come out with engine running

[Bananas]

It's too early for the thanks to everyone for their helpful comments - but so far, so good. Maiden voyage was a success. Gear changes are so smooth up and down, most are impossible to notice without the iiD displaying the gears. There's still a bit of taco needle bounce in 4th, which of course could be something else, but I'm hoping this will reduce over the next week or so.

Got an hour trip tomorrow through suburbia and highway to give it a proper test.

[Bananas]

Xmas day trip yesterday has left me with mixed impressions of success or otherwise.

The 45 min trip to lunch mainly on semi rural backroads with lots of hills and corners and straights up to 100 km/h was a dream. I took the highway on the way back and had a fair bit of surging happening when accelerating at speed or applying more throttle to maintain 100 km up a steady incline.

Perhaps ‘surging’ is not the correct term. It felt like a series of power drops about 0.5 seconds apart like a petrol engine that needs a tune miss firing.

Gear changes were beautifully smooth and the surging would stop as soon as I backed off the accelerator or was at a constant speed on flat even road. The surging did not happen accelerating from a standstill. While it was happening when accelerating at speed, it would also stop if I put my foot down. Shifting from D to S would also reduce it but not stop it entirely.

This vid posted by Lukeis in 2020 shows a similar tacho behaviour: https://youtu.be/oUZvSLtWW6s

I have a new set of injectors and a new leak off line to put in sometime in the next week and will clean the MAF sensor and throttle body and go searching or obvious leaks so I’m hoping this is an injector issue. The injectors are still original at about 360k and I was experiencing this behaviour prior to the valve body overhaul.

Dr Google seems to attribute this type of behaviour to just about anything from a dirty air filter to total transmission doom so I’m not entirely confident I’m on the right track.

While I have my head under the bonnet is there anything else I should take a look at?

Hope you’re all having a great Xmas.

[loanrangie]

More likely a failing torque converter with the tacho bounce.

[DiscoJeffster]

More likely a failing torque converter with the tacho bounce.

Yeah I came to say the same thing. Common for the TC to fail on this model and cause flaring like this.

[PerthDisco]

And the zip kit won’t fix a bad TC

[Bananas]

Thanks guys.

Not the news I was hoping for but not a surprise. I’ve known the TCs days are limited for a while now. Hopefully it’ll hang in there till I can line up a replacement. Seems like it’s on the outer edge of my DIY abilities.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Thanks guys.

Not the news I was hoping for but not a surprise. I’ve known the TCs days are limited for a while now. Hopefully it’ll hang in there till I can line up a replacement. Seems like it’s on the outer edge of my DIY abilities.

If you put it in Drive and bring the revs up while keeping left foot on the brake, a faulty TC will slip and cause rpm fluctuations. How was the TF when you drained it? Mine was kinda greenish, but I had no TC issues at 220000km.

The TC itself is not dear to fix by a reputable transmission shop, it's the clamping clutch ring inside that gets worn and slips and causes the surging. A new genuine TC is over 2k, which is not too bad considering what they do. The issue is getting access, as the entire transmission has to come out.

[discorevy]

If you put it in Drive and bring the revs up while keeping left foot on the brake, a faulty TC will slip and cause rpm fluctuations. How was the TF when you drained it? Mine was kinda greenish, but I had no TC issues at 220000km.

The TC itself is not dear to fix by a reputable transmission shop, it's the clamping clutch ring inside that gets worn and slips and causes the surging. A new genuine TC is over 2k, which is not too bad considering what they do. The issue is getting access, as the entire transmission has to come out.

A normal stall test (which is what you are describing) will NOT pick up a failing lock up clutch, as by doing that you are testing a fluid lock up scenario, which tests for faults within turbine/ stator etc, not an internal clutch lock up scenario, as it won't try to lock up when stationary.

[Bananas]

Thanks very much.

I’ll try the stall test and also take it for another longer spin today. I’ll take careful note of symptoms. On shorter drives the gear changes continue to be amazingly smooth and the tacho seems to behave.

Fluid was somewhere between honey and golden syrup as it drained. In milk bottles ready for disposal it’s fairly dark like tea. It does not smell burned.

[DiscoDB]

Remember also unless you followed a specific relearn process the adaption reset will take sometime to settle down as well as it needs to relearn the best settings for the clutch pack.

The ZF procedure for the BMW can be found here:

https://www.bimmerfest.com/attachments/zf_adaptation-procedure-pdf.1086434/

I would suggest the procedure for software version T is probably the most comparable for the D3/D4.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20241227/62a5422146415ecc2bf80b9487a988f4.jpg

I also recommend rechecking fluid levels again now that it has been driven.

[loanrangie]

Remember also unless you followed a specific relearn process the adaption reset will take sometime to settle down as well as it needs to relearn the best settings for the clutch pack.

The ZF procedure for the BMW can be found here:

https://www.bimmerfest.com/attachments/zf_adaptation-procedure-pdf.1086434/

I would suggest the procedure for software version T is probably the most comparable for the D3/D4.

I also recommend rechecking fluid levels again now that it has been driven.

No re-learning process will help if he has these issues right away, myself and others here who have been thru this same process had no surging or tacho bounce post valve body rebuild.
If you plan on keeping the disco for a while then a new or rebuilt torque converter is the only fix, a member recommended TCE (torque converter engineering ) for rebuilding and beefing up the TC and it was less then $600.

I would have used Penrite BMV as its much cheaper so you can afford to do a full flush instead of a drop and fill.

[DiscoDB]

Don’t disagree with you loanrangie - but you should not reset adaptions on a worn gearbox unless it has a new clutch pack fitted.

Applying “as new” pressures and shift settings to a worn clutch pack can do even more damage if you don’t do the relearn process correctly.

To prevent a more expensive repair, I would still recommend following a relearn process if you do reset the adaptions. It won’t fix a TC problem but will help protect the clutch pack.

[Bananas]

Thanks again guys. Very helpful.

So much to learn and so many traps for the newbie like me to fall into. I have reset adaptions with the iiD tool but have not followed the relearn procedure other than to creep up and down to 4th 4 times then 2 x to 5th and another 2 x to 6th. I have not driven much since and have been pretty light on the throttle anyway so hopefully not too much harm done to the clutch pack.

I'm happy to shell out for a new or rebuilt TC and would like to install it myself but it seems to be a solid 3 to 4 day exercise at my pace of working. Given the car is creeping up on 360K I'm trying to be realistic about expectations of it performing like an F1 forever and how much to spend on it. The body and interior are in such good condition it seems so wrong to give it up yet.

[DiscoDB]

Thanks again guys. Very helpful.

So much to learn and so many traps for the newbie like me to fall into. I have reset adaptions with the iiD tool but have not followed the relearn procedure other than to creep up and down to 4th 4 times then 2 x to 5th and another 2 x to 6th. I have not driven much since and have been pretty light on the throttle anyway so hopefully not too much harm done to the clutch pack.

I'm happy to shell out for a new or rebuilt TC and would like to install it myself but it seems to be a solid 3 to 4 day exercise at my pace of working. Given the car is creeping up on 360K I'm trying to be realistic about expectations of it performing like an F1 forever and how much to spend on it. The body and interior are in such good condition it seems so wrong to give it up yet.

What you did is good. Gives it a chance to cycle through the shifts in a gentle manner and start to relearn the correct settings to use.

We actually don’t know what the correct procedure is for the LR software used, but you will note all the BMW models follow a similar pattern to start and a variation of what you did anyway.

The key point to note is it will take a bit of time to reset back to the correct values for the level of wear within the clutch pack. And it would do that anyway even if you don’t reset the adaptions so best not done unless doing major mechanical work to the gearbox internals.

At those KMs most autos these days need a rebuild anyway. So doing the TC next is the next cheapest option (before committing to a full GB rebuild).

[Bananas]

Thank you for the reassurance.

I work in Botany, NSW so these guys have been recommended since they are close: FAQ — Auto Trans Australia (https://www.autotransaustralia.com.au/faq)

I’ve asked for recommendations and pricing and will see what they come back with. With the gearbox out anyway it could be false economy not to have it rebuilt too I guess.

[Eric SDV6SE]

A normal stall test (which is what you are describing) will NOT pick up a failing lock up clutch, as by doing that you are testing a fluid lock up scenario, which tests for faults within turbine/ stator etc, not an internal clutch lock up scenario, as it won't try to lock up when stationary.

But if the lock up clutch in the TC is worn, it will slip if loaded up. Agreed the transmission clutch pack per gear will lock, but the TC 'may' also slip above its lock up speed (1200rpm iirc). When I rebuilt mine, I reset all adaptations in the transmission. New fluid, filter, solenoids, sep plate, zip kit and valve body seals, all made a difference.


Perhaps try getting to highway speeds, setting cruise control and watching the tacho. If all is correct there should be no flutter of rpm as all will be locked in 6th gear.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Remember also unless you followed a specific relearn process the adaption reset will take sometime to settle down as well as it needs to relearn the best settings for the clutch pack.

The ZF procedure for the BMW can be found here:

https://www.bimmerfest.com/attachments/zf_adaptation-procedure-pdf.1086434/

I would suggest the procedure for software version T is probably the most comparable for the D3/D4.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20241227/62a5422146415ecc2bf80b9487a988f4.jpg

I also recommend rechecking fluid levels again now that it has been driven.

Great visual sequence. I believe the Sonnax ZIP kit also comes with resetting adaptations sequence for thr ZFhp26 and 28 transmissions.

[discorevy]

But if the lock up clutch in the TC is worn, it will slip if loaded up. Agreed the transmission clutch pack per gear will lock, but the TC 'may' also slip above its lock up speed (1200rpm iirc). When I rebuilt mine, I reset all adaptations in the transmission. New fluid, filter, solenoids, sep plate, zip kit and valve body seals, all made a difference.


Perhaps try getting to highway speeds, setting cruise control and watching the tacho. If all is correct there should be no flutter of rpm as all will be locked in 6th gear.

The Torque converter lock up clutch won't ever activate without the vehicle moving, and I wasn't referring to the transmission clutch packs, so I'm unsure what it was that you "agreed" with.

Just to be clear, the stall speed is different to lock up speed and occurs when the impeller in the torque converter has reached fluid lock up (I can't remember the figure for 6hp26/28, but a lot higher than 1200rpm) in that it can't rev any higher without the turbine side turning.


When you say "When I rebuilt mine", I'm guessing you were talking about the valve body and not the transmission or torque converter.

If you want to get your head around it, I'm sure there's a heap of info on the web.


To Bananas, the easiest test to be sure it's the torque converter at fault ( whether through lack of pressure on that circuit or the usual slipping T.C. clutch ) is to apply light throttle and try to maintain around 70 kph on a slight incline.

[loanrangie]

Don’t disagree with you loanrangie - but you should not reset adaptions on a worn gearbox unless it has a new clutch pack fitted.

Applying “as new” pressures and shift settings to a worn clutch pack can do even more damage if you don’t do the relearn process correctly.

To prevent a more expensive repair, I would still recommend following a relearn process if you do reset the adaptions. It won’t fix a TC problem but will help protect the clutch pack.


Actually ZF specify to reset adaptions after any hardware change, ie solenoids. I didn't do any relearning process and didn't have any surging or off shifting, i just drove sedately for a few days - yeah right :)

[Bananas]

Very helpful again guys, thanks.

I definitely get the surging happening when going up an incline and trying to maintain a steady speed at speeds above 70. It also happens to a lesser degree from 3rd and up when accelerating up to 70.

I had the iid tool out trying to get useful info about the TC observing when it was ‘open’ ‘regulated’ or ‘closed’. It was rarely in the closed state and the surging would happen during the regulated state. I don’t know what to make of that. After a few YouTube animations of how the TC works though, they are truely an engineering masterpiece.

In the mean time I thought I’d lift the bonnet after lunch today to contemplate the injectors for tomorrow’s pre NYE silliness. Got a bit carried away and am up to pulling the fuel lines and leak off lines. But I’ll leave those to tomorrow.

Unfortunately I noticed a bit of oil down in the valley near the oil filter so I took the throttle body off to investigate and clean up. There is a fair bit of oil inside the throttle body (cracked flange on one of the outlets seems to be the leak). Do I now need to loose sleep over the turbo too, or is oil in the throttle body normal??? What a joy.

[DiscoJeffster]

They’re very oily engines. Any leaks in your intake will coat the engine. I wouldn’t lose sleep over that.

Hopefully you won’t need a slide hammer like I did to get one of my injectors out. I welded the slide hammer to a fuel pipe I sacrificed, screwed the pipe to the injector and hammered away for about ten minutes. Eventually got it free. The others lifted out with little to no effort.

[Bananas]

Slide hammer and welder is at the ready. I’m hoping they are not needed. And I’ll learn to embrace the oil!

[loanrangie]

Slide hammer and welder is at the ready. I’m hoping they are not needed. And I’ll learn to embrace the oil!

Mark the positions of the hard fuel lines before removal, i would try a couple of tubes of dr tranny and see if that changes anything.

[PerthDisco]

A bad oil filter change can let a lot of oil into the valley which creates the illusion of something worse.

I have a oil suction device which has a very skinny tube that I can get into the valley

[Bananas]

So I got up, had a swim at the beach, had breaky and a coffee, pulled 5 out by hand and was thinking how nice, for all the kicks in the balls 2024 had in store for me that it was good the injector job was going well…..then #6. The one close to the battery box. The least accessible. 4 fricken hours (and a wayward finger in the slide hammer) and at last it’s free. One last kick in the nuts for 2024 I guess.

Clean up then beer o clock.

Happy NYE all. Thanks for your generous help so far.

[DiscoJeffster]

So I got up, had a swim at the beach, had breaky and a coffee, pulled 5 out by hand and was thinking how nice, for all the kicks in the balls 2024 had in store for me that it was good the injector job was going well…..then #6. The one close to the battery box. The least accessible. 4 fricken hours (and a wayward finger in the slide hammer) and at last it’s free. One last kick in the nuts for 2024 I guess.

Clean up then beer o clock.

Happy NYE all. Thanks for your generous help so far.

Mine was the drivers side rear. Like you say, couldn’t be more awkwardly positioned!

[Bananas]

Bugger. Just started up and took it for a drive. Bloody injector in the same position as the one that was seized is leaking. I torqued it down but clearly it’s not sealing on the copper washer properly. Hopefully it will come out easily so I can see what’s up with it.

[DiscoJeffster]

Bugger. Just started up and took it for a drive. Bloody injector in the same position as the one that was seized is leaking. I torqued it down but clearly it’s not sealing on the copper washer properly. Hopefully it will come out easily so I can see what’s up with it.

Fudge. I was lucky. New washers and a little manual cleaning of the seat and it was okay. I had looked into a seat reamer. I think that’s likely what you’ll need to do

[PerthDisco]

If you reuse the fuel lines and get leak free on first try you’re doing well

[Bananas]

Cheers.

I was very relieved when it cranked over. Engine shook like an amusement park ride till - I’m guessing - all cylinders had fuel. Then it smoothed out. Even with the scene from Giant happening under the bonnet the car was running well.

I did reuse the fuel lines and had no leaks. I’ll take that as a win. And now I have to reuse the line for cylinder 6 a 2nd time.

I bought a seat cutter set and reamed each seat and cleaned the wells to a mirror surface as part of the job. But that rear passenger side one was difficult to access. I may not have done a great job.

I pulled the injector yesterday and find it to be quite loose.

I hope I found the culprit. Looks like I may have knocked something onto the seat when installing the injector. Check out the dents in the washer. I’m guessing whatever caused the dents eroded away leaving the injector loose. I recut the seat and cleaned the well and surround. It sparkles. I’ll need to borrow a washer from an old injector. I’ll re anneal it and lap it smooth first. Hopefully that will work.

I also bought an $8 endoscope from AliExpress which has been useful. Not a terribly good focal length but super helpful and the next best thing to an eye on the end of your finger for those spots where a mirror on a stick can’t help.

[Bananas]

Mmm. That that didn’t work. Guess I’m in the market for a new washer (and a bunch of spares).

It’s encouraging however that the car runs well.

[Bananas]

So, turns out I'm chasing the wrong issue. Injector seems to be sealing fine and probably did the first time around.

Good thing, I get to go to bed knowing the issue. Bad thing....I must have punched a hole in the inlet manifold when wrestling with the stuck injector. Seems I turned it too far. I think the bracket was the culprit. Oh dear.

Learning curve is a vertical line at the moment.

A good degrease and JB Weld till I can get a new inlet manifold?

[BradC]

You could try, but those manifolds are notoriously difficult to get stuff to stick to on a reliable basis.

[350RRC]

Thorough degrease around the area then sand where you want the stuff to stick with 60 Grit paper leaving no shine. This will give this type of repair the best chance of success.

DL

[PerthDisco]

And use JB Weld it is very good

[Bananas]

Thanks guys.

I ended up doing a Pebble Beach Concours level degrease, applied a plastic primer and made a neat little beer can patch backed with Sikaflex 227.

I’ll order a new cover and psych up to it. Seems to be a classic Landrover game of remove-just-about-everything-to-get-at-the-bolts.

What a silly mistake.

I have little doubt that mine is not the first Landrover to have been fixed using a beer can.

[loanrangie]

Thanks guys.

I ended up doing a Pebble Beach Concours level degrease, applied a plastic primer and made a neat little beer can patch backed with Sikaflex 227.

I’ll order a new cover and psych up to it. Seems to be a classic Landrover game of remove-just-about-everything-to-get-at-the-bolts.

What a silly mistake.

I have little doubt that mine is not the first Landrover to have been fixed using a beer can.


May as well fit the new alloy ones if yours is a 3L.

[Bananas]

Mines just a ford territory motor (2.7)

[loanrangie]

Mines just a ford territory motor (2.7)


Easy enough to get a 2nd hand one then.

[Bananas]

So far so good with the beer can. Car runs very well. Gear changes are beautifully smooth and it could be placebo but I feel the engine is a bit more responsive. In fact a few times when I swore I was doing 80ish I was supposed to see I was trucking along at 100.

Thanks to everyone who has helped along the way with advice, theories and encouragement on this thread. It was this time last year I got the first GEARBOX FAULT messages and resulting instances of reduced performance.

1 x Gap iid tool, 1 x HPFP, 1 x door from a donor (thanks work neighbour for not using your rear view mirror), new coolant, 1 x fuel, engine oil, gearbox oil and air filter, 2 x sway bar D rubbers, 1 x set of gear change solenoids, 1 x zip kit, 20L of Lifeguard 6, new engine oil, a beer can , 6 x injectors, a new leak off line (didn’t actually install it) and probably a few other bits and pieces since first posting and this average motorist has been transformed into a week end warrior mechanic by the Land Rover magic. I even have a super nerdy spreadsheet of all work ever done on the vehicle since new!

I just gave it a bath and it looks flash. Very happy.

The TC is a bigger job that I care to tackle just yet though. I’ll see how I feel once I have watched all the vids I can find.

Thanks again guys. Hope your 2025 is off to a good start.

[Bananas]

Oh yeah, forgot the heater matrix, front hubs, rotors and pads too. Yikes.

[Narangga]

Oh yeah, forgot the heater matrix, front hubs, rotors and pads too. Yikes.

It sounds like mine - and I no longer dare look at my spreadsheet [bigsad]

However well done on the most recent beer can endeavour!

[shack]

1 x Gap iid tool, 1 x HPFP, 1 x door from a donor (thanks work neighbour for not using your rear view mirror), new coolant, 1 x fuel, engine oil, gearbox oil and air filter, 2 x sway bar D rubbers, 1 x set of gear change solenoids, 1 x zip kit, 20L of Lifeguard 6, new engine oil, a beer can , 6 x injectors, a new leak off line


I gotta be honest...

All that work would have required more than 1 beer can for me!

[Bananas]

A quick update after about 500km on the new injectors I thought was worth sharing.

I have been amazed by a few things.

I had a subtle knock I would hear when idling after starting. Kind of like tapping an anvil with a resin hammer. That’s gone now. I was choosing not to hear it and now I don’t!

The engine runs seems to run smoother at all revs and at idle it’s a smooth even idle whereas before it was a slightly rough idle.

I’m not noticing any smoke out of the exhaust in instances where I had come to expect it.

The average fuel consumption around town shown on the console has dropped from about 12.7 litres per 100 km to consistently around 9.7 litres per 100 km.

And the beer can is still there.

Fairly happy with that.

[BradC]

The average fuel consumption around town shown on the console has dropped from about 12.7 litres per 100 km to consistently around 9.7 litres per 100 km.

It'll be interesting to see if that's reflected at the pump over time.

[DiscoJeffster]

I didn’t see any fuel economy benefits when I changed mine, but it definitely resolved my pre-ignition issue.

[PerthDisco]

A quick update after about 500km on the new injectors I thought was worth sharing.

I have been amazed by a few things.

I had a subtle knock I would hear when idling after starting. Kind of like tapping an anvil with a resin hammer. That’s gone now. I was choosing not to hear it and now I don’t!

The engine runs seems to run smoother at all revs and at idle it’s a smooth even idle whereas before it was a slightly rough idle.

I’m not noticing any smoke out of the exhaust in instances where I had come to expect it.

The average fuel consumption around town shown on the console has dropped from about 12.7 litres per 100 km to consistently around 9.7 litres per 100 km.

And the beer can is still there.

Fairly happy with that.

Were they new new or new second hand?

[Bananas]

I put new injectors in. They were:
GENUINE VDO FORD TERRITORY 2.7L INJECTOR A2C59513553 × 6 $3,180.00 from THE DIESEL DOCTOR AUSTRALIA.

Next tank I'll get nerdy and calculate the actual consumption and compare to the displayed average. I didn't do this prior to changing so I can't compare but it'll be a decent hint if the displayed average is in the ballpark.

Getting the TC and the rest of the gearbox assessed on Monday to get a good handle on costs to solve the shudder and surging. Leaning toward the non DIY route since dropping the gearbox using ramps in the driveway looks like a total PITA.

[Bananas]

Hopefully this is not too pre-emptive but I chickened out on replacing the TC and had the pros take care of it. We settled on a house we bought last week so my DIY-ness is being sucked out of me for the next few weeks.

I picked the car up yesterday. Holy mackrel, it's smoooooth. EV smooth in fact. Advice was that only the TC needed to be rebuilt and that the rest of the transmission didn't need attention at this point. I've been going out of my way to drive all of the local spots that would send the tacho needle into a frenzy. It's so satisfying to see it behaving itself coasting and under load.

So, collectively you guys were right from the very beginning of this thread; 2 issues - the HPFP and transmission, specifically VB, solenoids and TC. That's pretty amazing. What a journey.

[PerthDisco]

Hopefully this is not too pre-emptive but I chickened out on replacing the TC and had the pros take care of it. We settled on a house we bought last week so my DIY-ness is being sucked out of me for the next few weeks.

I picked the car up yesterday. Holy mackrel, it's smoooooth. EV smooth in fact. Advice was that only the TC needed to be rebuilt and that the rest of the transmission didn't need attention at this point. I've been going out of my way to drive all of the local spots that would send the tacho needle into a frenzy. It's so satisfying to see it behaving itself coasting and under load.

So, collectively you guys were right from the very beginning of this thread; 2 issues - the HPFP and transmission, specifically VB, solenoids and TC. That's pretty amazing. What a journey.

What was the damage? Great result. So good a feeling when you have glitches behind you as you can look forward to the new ones.

[Bananas]

Ha - yes indeed on both accounts. Loving driving it again, not loving the 'wonder what next' feeling.

$2,900 for the rebuild. Steeper than I was hoping but a good investment in time - I reckon I bought myself 3 weekends at least.