Where do you get the Veg from?

[crash]

I am curious to find out where people are getting their veggie oil from and how much they are paying for it?
Where do you source the othe chemicals that are required for the process and at what cost.
Also, how much has it cost you to set up your biodiesel refinery?

[DirtyDawg]

I have access to 160lts per week but I can't be fudged yet, will wait till it hits $2 a ltr

[George130]

Friend has been getting the oil from his local fish and chip shops.

[tannery]

I have access to 160lts per week but I can't be fudged yet, will wait till it hits $2 a ltr

lucky dawg.. I get mine from 3 small restaurants... doing them a favour, rather than having them pay for the disposal.. I end up getting about 160l every 3-4 weeks..

regards,

biodiesel bob.

[DEFENDERZOOK]

can sump oil be used instead.....?
there is plenty of this available at the workshops all over the place.....
they would rather give it away than pay to have it taken away......

[rangieman]

can sump oil be used instead.....?
there is plenty of this available at the workshops all over the place.....
they would rather give it away than pay to have it taken away......

just think of all the metal and grudge in sump oil not for me thanks
and the metal filings would be very fine
would you put second hand oil in your sump:eek:

[DEFENDERZOOK]

its not going in the sump.......
its being refined and filtered into diesel.......and its a dino oil....
can it be done as easily with sump oil.......?



once its filtered it cant do any damage....and once its refined its a new product......

[rangieman]

i know what your saying about fitering the oil but the metal shavings can be very fine and i wound,nt want that going thru my pump and injectors
and i would imagine if it was possible it would be known unless its one of those best kept secrets:cool:

[Bigbjorn]

i know what your saying about fitering the oil but the metal shavings can be very fine and i wound,nt want that going thru my pump and injectors
and i would imagine if it was possible it would be known unless its one of those best kept secrets:cool:

Racor, who make the best fuel filter/separators on the market, provide a range of large scale filter/separator units for fleets etc. so their waste oil can be cleansed and metered into a bulk fuel installation. The metering rate can be adjusted by the operator. This equipment has been around for more than thirty years to my knowledge. Remember, distillate is just a light oil with rust inhibitors, and other additives, some of which vary with the seasons and geographical locations.

[rangieman]

ok maybe it is possible:cool:

[Wortho]

This is interesting i want to start bio but if i could use sump oil that would be good too. Does anyone know how to refine sump oil into safe usable fuel and what additives would be needed?.

[crash]

It is my belief that to turn sump oil into diesel is possible but requires a more complex refining / distilling setup. It is my recollection back to science class that the oil is need to be heated up to a relatively high temperature similar to a distilling process. As the temperature is increased and the oil refined more, I think first you get like a parifin tye wax, then kero, then diesel then petrol.
Any thing is duable if you want to spend enough money. I feel that turning sump oil into diesel is beyond the average back yard, and why have we not heard more about it until now?

[Bigbjorn]

It is my belief that to turn sump oil into diesel is possible but requires a more complex refining / distilling setup. It is my recollection back to science class that the oil is need to be heated up to a relatively high temperature similar to a distilling process. As the temperature is increased and the oil refined more, I think first you get like a parifin tye wax, then kero, then diesel then petrol.
Any thing is duable if you want to spend enough money. I feel that turning sump oil into diesel is beyond the average back yard, and why have we not heard more about it until now?

Did you not look at my earlier response to this thread? I did not make any mention of changing sump oil into distillate. I informed the forum of the long available equipment to clean sump oil and meter it into a bulk fuel installaion. Compression ignition ( diesel ) engines run on virtually anything that will ignite when heated. distillate, corn flour, coal dust, very crude and dirty, gritty oils, etc. Distillate is a light oil. add (clean) sump oil to it and you are burning less money.

[Gavo]

You can but a rig from Cummins that you put one end into a drum of sump oil and another line into your fuel tank.
It sucks diesel from your tank and the dirty sump oil blends it together and filters it out.
They were about $5000.00 when I last looked it up.

There was also a rig I saw when I was in the navy.
It would be connected to the marine engines sump. As I understand it could also be used on any drum stock oil which had been contaminated as well.

Not that its really relevant but interesting anyway
It would suck up the oil from the sump, add water and then filter it all out and return the clean oil to the sump.
Before anyone asks the why water was used to remove the sulfur builds up in oil over time. There was one case where some wally didn't connect the water line up to the rig, thinking he was smarter. You see sulfur combines with water to make sulfuric acid bad karma. Sulfuric acid also fills batteries and they give off hydrogen gas at the battery is used. Over several years of not using the rig correctly the sulfur get really really high, a failure in the cooling system caused water to enter the crank case and it was the resulting hydrogen gas that exploded.

[DEFENDERZOOK]

Did you not look at my earlier response to this thread? I did not make any mention of changing sump oil into distillate. I informed the forum of the long available equipment to clean sump oil and meter it into a bulk fuel installaion. Compression ignition ( diesel ) engines run on virtually anything that will ignite when heated. distillate, corn flour, coal dust, very crude and dirty, gritty oils, etc. Distillate is a light oil. add (clean) sump oil to it and you are burning less money.




for an early diesel engine i would be using sump oil thinned out with a bit of diesel or kero....

but in a late model Td5.......?
these are supposed to be very fussy engines.....also too expensive for me to experiment with.....

the main reason for all the questions.....




if a Td5 can be run on filtered and diluted sump oil......i can get my hands on plenty of this stuff.......
we actually have to pay someone to take it away at work......

also...does the fact that sump oil has petrol dilution and other contaminants matter much....?

[isuzurover]

I have never heard of the equipment Brian is talking about, however I do know that a certain company, lets call them Ray*** have basically no R&D to speak of, and some of their filters use industrial insulation material, instead of actual filter material (only one step better than using toilet paper :D ). So I would be dubious about any technology they come up with.

Sump oil has a high soot content, and I would be very wary of the effect that would have on modern, close-tolerance common-rail injector pumps. It has been shown that soot can cause significant engine wear, even though the soot particles are smaller than the smallest tolerance. Soot particles can be as small as 20nm (0.020 microns) so will get through almost any fuel filter you can think of.

[wes81]

Yes, sump oil can be used as a diesel substitute once extensively filtered and put through a refining process, which involves high temperature and pressures. Not a built up back yard gig like the vegetable oil process.

[nobbydoldrums]

I'd say the best bet with fine particulates would be to put it through a centrifuge. Could be a fun project to build one, but would end up getting quite expensive.

[Blknight.aus]

the planned system for fozzy includes

a strainer
2 sedimentors
a 30 micron filter with another sedimentro built in
and finally
either a 1 or a 5 micron filter.

since the original spec for the 2.25 only required either a 50 or 40 micron filter I think I can stop the chips getting into the injector pump...

[Frontier1]

Hi Wortho,

This might be worthwhile for you to take a look at. YouTube - Making alternative diesel fuel from Wast Petroleum Oil (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK2cwHK_-7M)

I did visit this idea a few months back as I have a mate who has about 65 x 44gal drums of engine oil in his 2nd hand parts yard.

I didn't try it since I get my 220ltr of vegi oil for free anyway from a pub bistro every 3 weeks and decided to go down the ethanol biodiesel route. (see my other thread). I filter my waste oil through 140micron, then 10micron, then process, then 1 micron before it gets to my car.

In theory the sump oil method, properly filtered and processed should work and Dave's comment on the use of filters and the micron size of the injector ports is correct too so you could give it a go.

Just my 2cents worth.

Cheers, Pete'

[Frontier1]

And you could get one of these (I really like how this looks although it would be possible to make your own too), YouTube - Cleaning waste vegetable oil with Dieselcraft centrifuge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnEYyAnlck8)

This will remove particles all the way down to below 1 micron.

Pete'

[Ozboc]

Greetings - First post to this forum - but not new to bio - I have been using it in my Nissan Patrol 4.2 TDI for 2 years now - no probs at all -- I source my oil from fish and chip shops - I get my Methanol from a race fuel supplier ( buy in 200 Litre drums) and my caustic i get from work as i work in chemical industry

If you handy with a welder - you can basically start up with a good system for about $200

i have just bought a 99 model freelander 2 l turbo diesel -- do you know if you can run bio in these ???

Boc

[lardy]

can sump oil be used instead.....?
there is plenty of this available at the workshops all over the place.....
they would rather give it away than pay to have it taken away......

apparently there is some bloke in the states that claims to make a fuel from sump oil, but the energy it would put out would be poor, i would stick to used veg oil mate

[JohnF]

just think of all the metal and grudge in sump oil not for me thanks
and the metal filings would be very fine
would you put second hand oil in your sump:eek:

hi, I once did a job skills job in agroforestry, in the mid 1990's. Instead of buying expensive chain bar oil for his chainsaw bars my boss used sump oil. He had 7 chainsaws he kept going with workers owning some others of their own. He had a series of drums connected to filter the oil, least 3 of them. In the system the oil ran over a magnet to remove magnetic particles. [not all metal is magnetic.] It went in very dirty and came out fairly clean though still black in color. through the system took about three weeks. leaky rings on car gives lots of black smoke so it would need to be well refined to use as fuel. but metal particles can be removed. Sorry Ido not have more info on this. Years ago when I was young a company "Mar-refine" [not sure of spelling] refined dirty used sump oil to be reused as nice clean cheap sump oil. Not sure how they refined it though, and it may have been by distilation. Petrol and deisel comes from distilation of crude oil.