Is caravan manufacturering viable?

[V8Ian]

Have Hard Korr gone bust?

2023 Hard Korr HKC18-L Outback Explorer Off-Road Caravan Travel Trailer (Unused) in Brisbane, Queensland, Australia (Asia-Pacific Item #11776292) (https://www.ironplanet.com.au/jsp/s/item/11776292?&&equip_id=11776292&feedage=20240602&feedacct=IPAU&src=criteo&utm_source=criteo&utm_medium=retargeting&utm_campaign=Lower_Funnel&utm_content=RecreationalVehicles&cto_pld=z6hgOTy8AADLLwxw1noi0w&_ga=2.208348113.2109949347.1717366931-830163684.1706785523)

With little regulation, shoddy workmanship and exorbitant pricing, one could be excused for believing it's a veritable gold mine.

[Slunnie]

What type of reputation did they have? It wouldn't surprised me if their van division was run seperately to their electricals and camping.

When I was at the last Sydney show looking at the hybrids, I really liked their one by a big margin.

But when I got home and looked at the details, found the ball weight was miles too high at about 320kg empty, and the van was only a couple of hunderd kg shy of max weight.

Despite what looked like a really great product in so many ways, it just wasn't going to work.

I've really been surprised by how many caravan manufacturers are in Australia! There seem to be so many!

[goingbush]

The current crop of Vans are all an unknown. Hardkorr sounds like Trakmaster , At load Capacity with full tank & gas bottles. Only 2 ways of knowing what youv'e got. 1 buy a Jayco. 2 build your own.

I just wished I'd built my own from scratch, Said I'd never buy another after the Trakmaster experience but got duped & bought a new 2019 Red Center for the next big trip , then Covid hit , Then medical issues, So had 5 years sitting at home would have been perfect for a self build Van . Hindsight eh. Oh well I restored the 2 Dodges instead & now after the Red Centres first month long trip , Ive had it in the shed fixing everything going on 6 weeks, another 2 weeks on the tools and it should be good for a 3 month trip.

[Slunnie]

The current crop of Vans are all an unknown. Hardkorr sounds like Trakmaster , At load Capacity with full tank & gas bottles.

Thats it. The HKC15-H is 2650kg dry, ATM 3000kg, add 200litres + 2x gas bottles and you're at 2900kg then add a fridge, food, personals and maybe a small generator and I cant see it being under 3000kg assuming the grey water tank is empty. The ball weight would be pushing 400kg loaded, the poor Disco will only take 250kg.

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

One of the local welding workshops here in Bundaberg made a handy living out of repairing brand new caravans that had been bought in Victoria. By the time they had reached Queensland some of their suspension had already self-destructed. Their trips were usually just on bitumen as they were not off road caravans. He also got to be on a first name basis with all the local tilt truck operators who hauled in the broken down caravans for repairs.

I just remembered our tour of the caravan/trailer suspension place at Geebung (Brisbane) where Arthur Goddard, the founding engineer of the Series Land Rovers was helping his son design off road trailer/caravan suspension. That was a while ago. He is now - one of the late and great engineers. RIP.

Kind regards
Lionel

[NavyDiver]

Have Hard Korr gone bust?

2023 Hard Korr HKC18-L Outback Explorer Off-Road Caravan Travel Trailer (Unused) in Brisbane, Queensland, Australia (Asia-Pacific Item #11776292) (https://www.ironplanet.com.au/jsp/s/item/11776292?&&equip_id=11776292&feedage=20240602&feedacct=IPAU&src=criteo&utm_source=criteo&utm_medium=retargeting&utm_campaign=Lower_Funnel&utm_content=RecreationalVehicles&cto_pld=z6hgOTy8AADLLwxw1noi0w&_ga=2.208348113.2109949347.1717366931-830163684.1706785523)

With little regulation, shoddy workmanship and exorbitant pricing, one could be excused for believing it's a veritable gold mine.

More than a Million caravans in Australia! Yep really. Suspect my WA mate picking one up in a few Months may not be the only one as he checked up another one brand imported from China at a business here who was run by a gent I was surprised to see as I know his family very well.

A trip to the Cravan show put paid to the imported one being build in Sydney I think?

The imported brand Gent was shipping several out when I was there. Its a huge business. Not for the shoddy ones I hope. Noting I gave my e-bay special cheapish camping trailer to a nice gent who brought my Disco. It did a great job for my then 70 year old mum and dad road trip to Darwin. If the Caravan parks I run past over the last two weeks are in any way typical the grey nomads are not at risk of extinction any time soon [thumbsupbig][thumbsupbig]

[goingbush]

More than a Million caravans in Australia! Yep really. Suspect my WA mate picking one up in a few Months may not be the only one as he checked up another one brand imported from China at a business here who was run by a gent I was surprised to see as I know his family very well.

A trip to the Cravan show put paid to the imported one being build in Sydney I think?

The imported brand Gent was shipping several out when I was there. Its a huge business. Not for the shoddy ones I hope. Noting I gave my e-bay special cheapish camping trailer to a nice gent who brought my Disco. It did a great job for my then 70 year old mum and dad road trip to Darwin. If the Caravan parks I run past over the last two weeks are in any way typical the grey nomads are not at risk of extinction any time soon [thumbsupbig][thumbsupbig]

YEP Pandemic was boom time for shonky caravan builders. Punters could not go on their usual cruise or holiday to Bali so all bought caravans instead.

Now theyre stuck with them & seem to be using them en masse . I go to great efforts to fond a 'campsite' out of sight of the road because they congregate like flies on a turd if they spot you.

( the Keep out & Private property signs help [bigwhistle])

[loanrangie]

Some of those hybrids look good but way too heavy for what they are, I would like to build my next one but also considering just re- cladding the jayco and upgrading the interior.
17ft and only 1150 tare it tows well behind the D3.

[Slunnie]

Some of those hybrids look good but way too heavy for what they are, I would like to build my next one but also considering just re- cladding the jayco and upgrading the interior.
17ft and only 1150 tare it tows well behind the D3.

Do you think they're heavy because they're poorly designed, or because they're HD for offroading?

[oka374]

It cracks me up when I see most 4wd's dragging big "off road" vans or even the smaller hybrids that weigh more than many full size vans due to the massive chassis and suspensions fitted to them.
They've obviously never ever asked their vehicle manufacturer what the "off road" towing capacity of their vehicle is, if indeed the manufacturer even has given an "off road" towing capacity.
Most vehicles manufacturers when pushed to give a rating will quote the unbraked towing capacity for off road use which is usually around the 750kg area.
Landrover was one of the rare makes that did (do they still do?) quote an off road towing capacity for most of their vehicles.

[Slunnie]

I wonder how they define offroad. There is a bit of a spectrum there. Does that mean unsealed roads, or difficult terrain in their words.

Discovery 2:
Maximum permissible towed weights:

Unbraked trailers .................................................. On-road 750 kg (1653 lb), Off-road 750 kg (1653 lb)
Trailers with overrun brakes ................................... On-road 3500 kg (7716 lb), Off-road 1000 kg (2204 lb)

NOTE: The maximum speed when towing is 100 km/h (62 mph). - Whoops! :angel:

[Narangga]

Do you think they're heavy because they're poorly designed, or because they're HD for offroading?

I'd vote that they are poorly designed from observation.

[Tins]

I would say they were perfectly designed for their purpose, which is to impress the neighbours.

[loanrangie]

Do you think they're heavy because they're poorly designed, or because they're HD for offroading?

Bit of both, they think they're building a heavy off-road rig that's going to the cape but in reality they're going to a beachside caravan park twice a year.
And most don't need that heavy independent suspension either.

[Slunnie]

Bit of both, they think they're building a heavy off-road rig that's going to the cape but in reality they're going to a beachside caravan park twice a year.
And most don't need that heavy independent suspension either.

Thats the interesting thing. With aspirations of the big lap one day and a few friends who have done it. One couple said they saw a lot of trailers broken on their lap, mainly suspension and drawbars - they didn't have a problem with their camper. The other friends had their suspension fail a couple of times on their tandem caravan and had to get repairs done. Without intensions of sticking to the black top, it made me wonder if these hybrids are heavy so that they do return without breaking somewhere along the way, especially if being pounded on endless corrugations.

Which also makes you ask what off-road actually is, as the Oodnadatta track is very different to the old Telegraph line.

[BradC]

Thats the interesting thing. With aspirations of the big lap one day and a few friends who have done it.

My grandies did 3 laps including the Gibb river road both ways with a 1963 single axle 13'6" Baravan and a 2wd naturally aspirated diesel 4 cyl mazda ute. The ute is long gone, but the van tows nicely behind the D3. Grandad always said "don't be in a rush and you can go anywhere".

My folks have had a few New Age vans. The last one was bought second hand (3 months old) then rejected due to "major engineering defects". Dad made them build him a new van from scratch to his spec based on the one he bought second hand being not fit for purpose. Most of the new van's I've looked at have been somewhat wanting in the engineering and fitout department. I've heard the new "Made in China" Jaycos often referred to as "Jaycrap". It's a race to the bottom.

[Narangga]

Thats the interesting thing.

Which also makes you ask what off-road actually is, as the Oodnadatta track is very different to the old Telegraph line.

Indeed. Having towed two different camper trailers (see signature), including in Arnhem Land etc., I'll agree with BradC's grandfather - how one uses one's equipment is as important as anything.

Currently perusing the market for a purchase in about two years time and the number of hybrids and vans that are being sold having done no off-road and rarely any dirt road driving is staggering. :blink:

[DiscoDB]

I guess one of the benefits of the “off road” type vans is being able to match rim and tyre size to the tow vehicle.

Not an easy option for us LR tragics, but if I was towing a van on dirt roads and into more isolated areas then having the extra ground clearance and matching wheel size to the tow vehicle would be good to have.

I have seen non off-road vans struggle to get over small humps just tackling sloping driveways.

I do like the idea of some of the low profile hybrid campers that I can get through my garage. Add air suspension and the ability to drop ride height would be a handy feature (for the low profile vans).

[biggin]

Looks like TrakTrailer are in trouble now. Will that make my T-Van more or less valuable.

[DieselLSE]

Looks like TrakTrailer are in trouble now. Will that make my T-Van more or less valuable.
Where do get this from biggin?

[biggin]

There was mention of it in TVan owners site. Not a very reliable source no doubt.
Edit: I just googled it and it seems they’ve gone into voluntary administration.

[Colmoore]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240607/26368401aff9f7f35f5ae03481f0fd53.jpg

We did a lap in 2016: well over 40k kms, 12 months, in my 2010 Defender towing a Jayco Swan outback, the first with independent suspension.
I was very reluctant to buy a Jayco but my wife wanted one so I relented.
Structurally, it held up relatively well considering we did a lot of corrugated roads and took it a few places we probably shouldn’t have (the road from William Ck out to Kati Thanda was a shocker at that time - many washouts and 2 were as deep as the car!)

We lost a wheel up in the gulf near Gregory at 100 km/hr, sheered all the studs off due to flex in the alloy rims when hitting a couple of hidden washouts but everything stayed upright and I didn’t even have to replace the brake disc, just checked for straight and cleaned up the burs.

I did bend the inde suspension on one side when hitting a massive bull dust hole on an otherwise near perfect road coming into the old Kidman Station in SA. I was on a gentle right hander, the car just edged it but the camper dropped right in - when I looked in the mirror it was like a small nuclear weapon had detonated behind us!!
The trailer wore a tyre in about 10k kms thereafter but still handled ok.

Lots of little parts broke, so always had the screwdriver out when opening the door!

Jayco don’t have any regard whatsoever for the installation specs on Dometic fridges - wiring is so undersize it’s unsafe, there’s nowhere near enough insulation or ventilation space and the extraction fan is exactly half spec.

Fortunately, there’s lots of totalled vans out in the bush that provide spare parts for these occasions! (don’t worry, I didn’t steal or take anything from vans awaiting a tow)

We crossed the Gibb with a family from Vic, they had an ‘off road’ caravan about 20ft and by the time we got to El Questro, all four of the tiny little shock absorbers were totally cactus which caused some nasty handling that wreaked havoc inside - the 3/4 fridge tore loose and rolled around, destroying the interior and discharging the interior contents and also the refrigerant and oil throughout.
The bloke was towing it with a new 200 series; said he didn’t feel a thing!
Contrary to me in the Defender; I was a little tense at times, worrying about the Jayco….

The 110 weighed in at 3.2t and the Jayco at 1.6t fully loaded (I got Jayco to up spec the suspension - all they did was re stamp the compliance plate!!)

We left the van behind wherever possible - The Simpson, Creb, Tele track, etc but it probably came with us 70% of the trip.

My wife was right, we only lost $3.5k from our buying price; pretty cheap for a year’s accommodation for 5 people.
It sure was a great adventure but I’m just glad we made it round with the Jayco in one piece!

[goingbush]

Similar experience with my Jayco Outback Penguin. Fantastic little camper. Got what I paid for it when sold.

[goingbush]

I wonder how they define offroad. There is a bit of a spectrum there. Does that mean unsealed roads, or difficult terrain in their words.

Discovery 2:
Maximum permissible towed weights:

Unbraked trailers .................................................. On-road 750 kg (1653 lb), Off-road 750 kg (1653 lb)
Trailers with overrun brakes ................................... On-road 3500 kg (7716 lb), Off-road 1000 kg (2204 lb)

NOTE: The maximum speed when towing is 100 km/h (62 mph). - Whoops! :angel:

I just renewed my Vans CIL insurance , They said my Premium "does not cover off road use" I asked them to define off road & they said it is covered on any Gazetted Road . Thats fine by me .

[DiscoDB]

I just renewed my Vans CIL insurance , They said my Premium "does not cover off road use" I asked them to define off road & they said it is covered on any Gazetted Road . Thats fine by me .

So do they consider driving onto a paddock or a private property as going off road?

[goingbush]

So do they consider driving onto a paddock or a private property as going off road?

clearly its insured on my property , but I'll ask the question next renewal , Cant be stuffed reading the fine print.

I dare say if you driving on a Mining tenament to do a spot of Gold Detecting , your legally allowed to drive off road if you have a mining permit , you would not be covered by insurance.

[Tins]

Long time ago my insurer informed me that if I was legally allowed to drive there I was covered. I'm not sure I wanted to put that to the test.

[Narangga]

There was mention of it in TVan owners site. Not a very reliable source no doubt.
Edit: I just googled it and it seems they’ve gone into voluntary administration.

Yep - Track Trailer in administration - caravancampingsales.com.au (https://www.caravancampingsales.com.au/editorial/details/track-trailer-in-administration-146286/)