Salisbury Rear Pinion Replace or Adjust?

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

From the following symptoms could someone confirm a diagnosis and suggest a remedy?

A 1993 Defender 110 fitted with a Salisbury rear differential. When put into gear and the clutch is released the tail-shaft turns. However, the differential does not engage. Instead a whirring, ratcheting sound comes from the front of the differential. It is not a smashing and grinding of gear teeth sound; more of a loud whir. Snowy, my Defender just got back from the chassis repair shop and some of the notes the fabricator made in an email to me was that:

The rear diff has too much backlash. So I imagine the pinion is knackered.
The tail shaft has a lot of play, grease it up and see how it goes.

So, do the symptoms that fabricator and I described sound like something that can be shimmed out or is the pinion rooted and needs to be replaced?

I found a pinion and crown wheel that has the figure of 3.54. I am assuming that 3.54 could be referring to a ratio. If I am a correct is this the standard ratio fitted in the 110s or is higher or lower than standard? Remember that my assumption of the three numbers representing a ratio could be totally wrong.

Old Land Rovers - just a gift that keeps on giving!

Kind regards
Lionel

[Tins]

Have a burrow through some of these, Lionel. Mike knows his onions.
3:54 definitely sounds like a Salisbury ratio.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkIBI0td6S2t1ykuti-FJjlbYznA-qKAk&si=ObzUTAdR9-4uSauf

[Lionelgee]

Have a burrow through some of these, Lionel. Mike knows his onions.
3:54 definitely sounds like a Salisbury ratio.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkIBI0td6S2t1ykuti-FJjlbYznA-qKAk&si=ObzUTAdR9-4uSauf

Hello Tins,

Thank you for the links to Mike's stuff. I saw a couple of Mike's links on YouTube then I found this one Salisbury Differential Overhaul Tutorial that sounded closer to my immediate need of further education specific to 110 Salisbury differentials accessed 21/06/24 from, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLw-eDbpruI&t=1213s that was posted up on YouTube by Independent Land Rover Specialists. Then my whole district lost power so my viewing pleasure was very rudely interrupted when the internet went down due to no electricity. From the good explanations provided by the Independent Land Rover Specialist I have signed up for yet another newsletter and an another YouTube subscription. The UK Trailer Fitter Workshop bloke has a clip on Salisbury diffs too and their clips are usually good quality stuff as well.

I am placing a temporary moratorium on spending money on Snowy after paying for the chassis repairs. I am really glad that the whole chassis repairs chapter is closed and fully allocated for! I will use the intervening time to develop some knowledge about Salisbury differentials and tracking down different supplier options before lightening the wallet on Snowy again.

Just a thought in the back of my mind - probably a stray Autistical one ... to take the Salisbury diff centre out requires a differential housing spreader tool. The requirement of needing to spread a metal casing in order to get a part out smacks to me of bad design. Remember the Autism bit!

Update: I was searching for the link to the ARB housing case spreader tool when I came across a different site for another make that describes how their tool is used on:

Dana axle models 30 through 70s It's a heavy-duty device using mechanical screw power to spread the housing. It helps prevent the component damage that often results from the use of homemade devices.

I have another project vehicle that has two Dana diffs. Sigh!!!

I suppose the next question to investigate is whether either the ARB and the Dana tool are interchangeable so that just one of the tools can be used on both manufacturers' differentials. That makes it "Sigh" x 2.

Update 2: I just traced an image of the Dana spreader tool and it appears nothing like the ARB tool for the Salisbury differential spreader. Sigh x 3

Photographs pilfered from 1) ARB https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QBQY1UW'ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_BHFTKQJKRKMP6Z6HP 03D and 2) the Dana Spreader VEVOR VEVOR Differential Housing Spreader for Dana Axles Fits for 30-80 Series | VEVOR AU (https://www.vevor.com.au/differential-housing-spreader-c_10334/differential-housing-spreader-for-dana-30-80-series-returns-accepted-steel-p_010223631807)

Kind regards
Lionel

[woko]

Your original post has 2 different descriptions in it. You have said that the rear diff doesn't engage, and it also has backlash.

Will it only drive with the centre diff lock engaged?

Is it diff backlash or driveline backlash?

There are a lot of things in a defender driveline that will cause backlash

I would check the splines on the axles to drive members. Remove the rubber cap on the end of the axles and rock the vehicle backward and forward to check for wear. It's usually only adjustment that is required for backlash.

A salisbury diff is not just a Land Rover thing. It's the type of diff it is. Spreading the housing is only for setting the preload on the carrier bearings as they are shim adjusted. Banjo diffs generally use adjusting wheels

[Lionelgee]

Your original post has 2 different descriptions in it. You have said that the rear diff doesn't engage, and it also has backlash.

Will it only drive with the centre diff lock engaged?

Is it diff backlash or driveline backlash?

There are a lot of things in a defender driveline that will cause backlash

I would check the splines on the axles to drive members. Remove the rubber cap on the end of the axles and rock the vehicle backward and forward to check for wear. It's usually only adjustment that is required for backlash.

A salisbury diff is not just a Land Rover thing. It's the type of diff it is. Spreading the housing is only for setting the preload on the carrier bearings as they are shim adjusted. Banjo diffs generally use adjusting wheels

Hello Woko,

Thank you for your reply, Woko. The differential not engaging is not a constant thing. It is intermittent. However, there is a frequent "clonk" that comes when the clutch is let out and the vehicle goes either forwards or in reverse. This 'clonk' would represent backlash. Both point to things not being in a state of good repair within the back end of the vehicle.

Wot... Snowy has been used and abused!!!!

Needing the chassis to be repaired suggests that the current state of the differential comes as no surprise at all.

Kind regards
Lionel

[JDNSW]

1. 3.54 is the correct ratio for the 110 salisbury.

2. Salisbury is a licence built Dana, but I am not sure that the spreader is identical.

3. The symptoms do not match a pinion problem, but rather stripped splines on the drive flange or halfaxle (or both) at the hub. Apply the handbrake, jack up one rear wheel and turn the wheel by hand, after removing the hubacp, and check if the halfaxle is turning with the wheel. If it is, drop that wheel and repeat on the pother side and you will probably find the issue there. The RH is more likely to be the issue, as that side is less likely to get oil due to the vehicle mostly being parked on a side slope to the left.

[woko]

If it's not constant, I would be checking the axle drive flanges. Backlash in a defender is not just the in the rear crown wheel and pinion. Worn axles and drive flanges, worn driveshaft splines, worn centre diff washers can all cause backlash and a clunk in the drive line. This is why I asked if it's rear crown wheel and pinion backlash or driveline backlash
Check the front drive flanges also.

[Lionelgee]

Hello Woko and John,

Paul (Pop058) identified that the rear axles on Snowy are Maxidrives. I am not sure whether this changes the possible causes that you both very kindly described.

I will do those checks that have been suggested next week. This weekend's activities are sanding down one of the bench tops for the kitchen. I am off to get some more paper for the belt sander. The residue left over after chemically stripping the old stain and varnish is just gumming up the belts. I was just going to run the separated boards through my thicknesser. However, I was a bit concerned about reducing the thickness and decided to strip the boards instead. I should have gone with my first idea. I reckon by the time I sand down to the natural timber I would have saved myself a lot of time and effort with just using the thicknesser in the first place. A lesson could be there about following your first instincts!

Off to the big green hardware store, I go.

Kind regards
Lionel

[woko]

You normally convert the wheel bearings to run in oil when fitting maxi drive axles. But it's not a always. Maxidruve axles do wear also mainly when not ran in oil

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

when you stop and think about Snowy has already had his 31st birthday. All the parts in the differential only stop moving when the vehicle does. There is evidence of Snowy carrying heavy loads ... too heavy a load obviously during what must have been one very eventful occasion. A full inspection and a refresh of some critical parts could only make things better and increase the reliability. Snowy is a January 1993 build. It will be an inspection before any thing gets purchased though so I will have a targeted shopping list.

Also, lots more YouTube clips to watch and there is an online version of an overhaul manual that has a link shown on the Independent Land Rover Specialist's YouTube clip that will be worth having a squiz at.

Kind regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

G'day Tins, I am not sure whether the link for Mike from Britannia Restorations that you sent me is the same one I found last night when I was digging around ... before the electricity went off ... however, there is a lot of air time that shows the differential casing spreader that Mike uses. It looks far less complicated and less expensive than the ARB spreader. Accessed 22 June 2024 from,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTYjj4BzoUg

It looks worthwhile looking a the third alternative and seeing if it fits the Dana's as well? Fingers crossed!

Kind regards
Lionel

[JDNSW]

To check directly whether the issue is the pinion, it is quite easy to remove the rear cover on a salisbury (less messy if you drain the oil first), and you can see exactly what is happening.

Note, my 110 is now well over 700,000km, and I have had to replace one (RH) drive flange, and I have got the replacement half axle, but have not yet installed it, as the splines on the axle are well worn, but no issues with the diff. But while it has done a lot of off road, and a lot of towing, and has the rather rough Isuzu engine, there has been little towing heavy loads, and rarely operated close to maximum load.

Apart from the worn splines, and two sets of brake shoes and one pair of drums, the only rear axle issue has been a failed RH wheel bearing.

[gromit]

It looks far less complicated and less expensive than the ARB spreader. Accessed 22 June 2024 from,
l

The ARB one locates in the housing and spreads it apart, the one used in the video compresses the housing to spread it apart.

I haven't had to overhaul a Salisbury but recently 'found' a spreader (pic attached).
I did buy a Series IIa GS some years ago that had a Salisbury rear axle installed, the half shafts were welded to the drive members to overcome backlash or loss of drive !!!

Colin

[Tins]

The ARB one locates in the housing and spreads it apart, the one used in the video compresses the housing to spread it apart.



Yep. Same as the Datsun workshop tool we used on the BW diffs in locally assembled 200B and Stanza cars. They certainly didn't have the longevity JDNSW describes from his Salisbury. Some howled from the factory.... All the imports had IRS. Never needed to touch them.

[Tins]

It looks worthwhile looking a the third alternative and seeing if it fits the Dana's as well? Fingers crossed!

Kind regards
Lionel

Wish you hadn't mentioned Danas... OKA has two of them. I have a noisy front wheel bearing... What next?

[123rover50]

Wish you hadn't mentioned Danas... OKA has two of them. I have a noisy front wheel bearing... What next?


Have you ever hit a rock with the front one?
I have on mine and thats why I am making that guard.
One river crossing a rock made a hole in it, saw the oil in the water. When I got out I had to drain the oil, bash out the dent and filled the hole with Sikaflex.
I carry 2 litres of diff oil so I was OK. The engine and gearbox use the same oil and I carry 10 litres of that. could have used that in a pinch.
Just wondering as Okas have one in the front from factory, do they give it any protection?

Keith

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

I contacted Mike about the differential case spreader that appeared in one of his earlier YouTube clips. Mike sent me the following link that features a YouTube clip all about how to make and use the spreader. Thank you very much Mike - it is greatly appreciated!

Accessed 24/06/24 from, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZOkf20277w&list=PLkIBI0td6S2t1ykuti-FJjlbYznA-qKAk

Just got to do some conversions to Metric so I can understand the sizes required.

Kind regards
Lionel