Puma 2.4 Turbo - momentary cuts out

[Tikka7mm08]

Hi - have a nice roundabout on the way home that turns on a motorway start and quite like to floor it. Have noticed in 3rd-5th as it is powering up there is a split second feeling like a miss but I think it is the turbo momentarily deactivating?

Secondly, how much benefit is there in going to a hybrid/upgraded turbo?

[POD]

Common cause of momentary cutting out is the VCV (SCV).

[MLD]

i had the same symptoms. On a highway entrance with an incline, under full boost and max load on the engine, i had a miss like the ECU was retarding fuelling. I have a scan gauge and manifold pressure would peak about 36psi (22 psi boost). Turbo failed and as soon as i bolted in new turbo manifold pressure peaked at 34 psi (20 psi) and fuel retardation went away. My conclusion that the turbo was overboosting and the ECU was triggering a fuel retardation. Found power delivery right across the board is better with the new turbo (cheap chinese knock off). Suspect the ECU is no longer dancing the fine line between overboost/fuelling/safety parameters in fuelling tables etc whenever there is extra load on engine (ie hills).

[DazzaTD5]

*the turbo cant just cut out, its a mechanical component. the electronics is the turbo modulator which control the variable vanes on the turbo.
*on a 2.4, the turbos rarely fail, they are a reliable unit.
*as it is a 2.4, as already mentioned, the FCV, flow control valve is a common failure.
*other systems are poor starting, some clacky engine running.

*crankshaft position sensor is my guess, common fault on a 2.4 and rarely if ever brings up a fault code.
Ford part number:287Q-6C315-AC

[DazzaTD5]

just to add... re turbo upgrade


*"hybrid" turbo generally in reference to waste gated turbos such as the TD5 models, a hybrid turbo on these is an excellent upgrade.
*as the Defender TDCi is already a variable vane turbo / variable geometry turbo there is no benefit (that I see) in putting an aftermarket turbo on them.
*on Defender TDCi models (2007 - 2016) I dont recommend bigger output turbos. the cylinder head dont have the throughput and the head will likely fail.

The only thing I can recommend if replacing a failed turbo or you just want to spend some money on your Defender (hell, who doesnt right?)
*get a new std core from Turborebuilds in the U.K and get the two snails (the intake and exhaust housing of the turbo) and get them ceramic coated, not a rattle can job but an industrial grade ceramic coating. Do the exhaust manifold also.

In theory instead of the heat being radiated through the castings it gets forced out the exhaust, and in theory should improve, performance, whatever.
Instead I do say to all my customers, "in theory" is just that, on a Defender tractor it wont improve nothing except you dont get that radiated heat soak. But customer feedback is it runs better as in performance and economy. My aim is to make the turbo a long lasting component, hence why I rebuild them over replacing with new.

[Tikka7mm08]

*the turbo cant just cut out, its a mechanical component. the electronics is the turbo modulator which control the variable vanes on the turbo.
*on a 2.4, the turbos rarely fail, they are a reliable unit.
*as it is a 2.4, as already mentioned, the FCV, flow control valve is a common failure.
*other systems are poor starting, some clacky engine running.

*crankshaft position sensor is my guess, common fault on a 2.4 and rarely if ever brings up a fault code.
Ford part number:287Q-6C315-AC

Would crankshaft PS show any other aberrant behaviour? This is the only issue with a ‘miss’ under full noise foot flat.

[Tikka7mm08]

I have a scan gauge 3 running so will add manifold pressure and see what it is doing…

[DazzaTD5]

Would crankshaft PS show any other aberrant behaviour? This is the only issue with a ‘miss’ under full noise foot flat.

no, but it would account for as you first stated... a split second miss. a stutter if you like.
But not a constant miss under load.

random no starting is another sign

[Tikka7mm08]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240702/bdce3941188921c8cceaa3dc1c1a2af1.jpg
Just remapped the ECU to the 165BHP tune and tested for fault. Is this what you were thinking?

[Tikka7mm08]

PS the other day the truck wouldn’t start as though dead batter- nothing at all but power/voltage was all fine.

[Tikka7mm08]

The manifold pressure never got over 34.5 and was mostly below that.

[DazzaTD5]

P0089...

replace the FVV / FVC / SCV (suction control valve, each manufacturer has their own name for it)
its a common fault on a 2.4, plenty of info on AULRO

I try to buy a DENSO box DENSO one, but it can still be a Nissan, Ford, Mitsubishi etc etc other brands.

land rover - LR009837
Denso - SM294009-02514M

[Tikka7mm08]

Thank you, have booked into the local to see if they can replace when getting a wheel alignment tomorrow. Will update.

[Tikka7mm08]

VCV/SCV replaced and no more missing under foot flat acceleration :)

I haven't followed this procedure that Pete Bell outlines but will do it tonight as might just help further tweak the running:

Defender 2.4TDCi VCV FUEL VAPOUR VALVE - Bell Auto Services, BAS Remaps, Land Rover, Ineos Grenadier and 4x4 Specialist In York , Service, Repairs, Parts, Custom Remaps York, Performance upgrades, BAS Landrover tuning, Ineos Grenadier. (https://bellautoservices.co.uk/store/defender-24tdci-vcv-fuel-vapour-valve/)

Got a Nakatanenga RAI to fit tonight which will improve air in.

[Tikka7mm08]

Couldn’t do the relearns, the BAS tool is asking to confirm ambient temp is over 15 deg… it’s about freezing tonight.

[Tikka7mm08]

Pete came back to me - his customer service is 2nd to none - and said leave the relearn until temps are well above 15deg as will do more harm than good if it’s running fine now.

[Robmacca]

*the turbo cant just cut out, its a mechanical component. the electronics is the turbo modulator which control the variable vanes on the turbo.
*on a 2.4, the turbos rarely fail, they are a reliable unit.
*as it is a 2.4, as already mentioned, the FCV, flow control valve is a common failure.
*other systems are poor starting, some clacky engine running.

*crankshaft position sensor is my guess, common fault on a 2.4 and rarely if ever brings up a fault code.
Ford part number:287Q-6C315-AC

Interesting... my local LR mechanic has seen a couple of Turbo failures whereby the Turbo lets oil past and it gets trapped in the IC and builds up to the point where the engine then runs away on Engine Oil & destroys the engine.

I'm in a situation where my 2.4 is using starting to use Engine oil (about 1ltr/4000kms) and from what I can see there is no Blue smoke coming out the exhaust. When I take the engine oil filler cap off while engine it running I notice that the cap will not sit there but the local LR mechanic did mention that these engines do breath heavily and don't read too much into it. He also said that these 2.4's don't usually burn oil either.

I've checked my Air Intake for dust ingress and it's all good...

anyone with ideas/experiences as to what it might be as to why I've started to use engine oil (engine has 231,000kms on it)?