You're not in the forces now..... A chat about impacts of when and why some have ....

[NavyDiver]

A knowledgeable person who is about to dive/swim with Orcas (Killer Whales) in Norway suggested I look at this

Warning some may be bothered by some of the topics in this !

"Vietnam veterans and their families often ask why an event that occurred over 30 years ago still has an impact on their lives. This video records a presentation which provides an explanation of how military service, involvement in war and the subsequent effects may be linked. It also introduces the veteran to the skills that can be developed to manage the future."A presentation by Vietnam Veteran Nic Fothergill, in 2001, explaining how military service, training and war all contribute to mental health issues in Military Veterans.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK2CeULAJuE

NB I was born at the middle to the End of the Vietnam war. (Two of my ships were their Vampire and Hobart)

[NavyDiver]

"Norway is one of the only places in the world where you can go swimming with orcas in the wild. While there are many laws around the world prohibiting swimming with orcas, this law does not exist in Norway. However, there are many rules that companies have to abide by when offering these excursion and taking visitors out to snorkel with orcas"

Just in case your as brave or crazy as the freediver lady who told about this here it is

Orca Diving Expedition in Norway | Book Your Adventure Now! — SDM Diving (https://sdmdiving.com/arctic-orcas)

PS Yes I am thinking of doing it. I was in the water not far from Pods of Killer Whales in British Columbia where I and my other mates in wetsuits almost froze to death[biggrin] Dry Suit not optional for me in cold water now[bigrolf]

[4bee]

"Norway is one of the only places in the world where you can go swimming with orcas in the wild. While there are many laws around the world prohibiting swimming with orcas, this law does not exist in Norway. However, there are many rules that companies have to abide by when offering these excursion and taking visitors out to snorkel with orcas"

Just in case your as brave or crazy as the freediver lady who told about this here it is

Orca Diving Expedition in Norway | Book Your Adventure Now! — SDM Diving (https://sdmdiving.com/arctic-orcas)

PS Yes I am thinking of doing it. I was in the water not far from Pods of Killer Whales in British Columbia where I and my other mates in wetsuits almost froze to death[biggrin] Dry Suit not optional for me in cold water now[bigrolf]



Maybe am a different person to the one that marched IN & out of Woodside in '56.

Have often thought that I wasn't full bottle any more, Bloody CSMs & their shouties.[FishSlap]:Rolling:


BTW have got some woolen Underwear you can have in exchange for one of your Frigates if it helps staying warm-ish, & I am sure the brown stains would wash out even after all this time.

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

I have been watching the video that Navy Diver posted the link to. Such quality information for returned veterans has been available since 2001 - I suspect due to the fashion of the clothes the presenter wears it was recorded even earlier. If half the advice in the video was followed through and made widely available then we would have not needed a Royal Commission about Veteran's Suicide - this makes me very sad.

Sorry for hijacking the thread - Mr Navy Diver.

Kind regards
Lionel

[Saitch]

Throw me in the water with a pod of Killer 'Whales' any day, if the only option is a North Queensland river.

I like to think that, being Dolphins, Orcas have a semblance of respect for us humans. I can't say that about the Swamp Gecko, or many Noahs!

I did see a diver, years ago, who got accidently (there were witnesses) involved in a 'Game' with a pod of Bottlenose. His bruises were quite a sight to behold!

[W&KO]

Not sure I’m upto watching it……I joined well after Vietnam and thankfully never deployed to a war zone…..

nearly everyday I reflect and wish I didnt sign up, I had three employment options at the time

[4bee]

Throw me in the water with a pod of Killer 'Whales' any day, if the only option is a North Queensland river.

I like to think that, being Dolphins, Orcas have a semblance of respect for us humans. I can't say that about the Swamp Gecko, or many Noahs!

I did see a diver, years ago, who got accidently (there were witnesses) involved in a 'Game' with a pod of Bottlenose. His bruises were quite a sight to behold!


That wouldn't happen today with Stubbynose dolphins or Can Nose, or would it?[bigrolf]


Certainly with the 750 ml it could.:Rolling::Rolling::Thump:

[p38arover]

Coincidentally, last night I watched the old 60 Minutes story about Long Tan, then watched John Schumann’s story about “I was only 19”, then the music video.

As always, I was affected by the song.

I don’t know how many pick up on Frankie’s stepping on a mine when man stepped on the moon and that Frankie was going home in June - Frankie should have gone home a month earlier. Armstrong stepped on the moon on 20th July, 1969 (21st here?).

I won (?) the lottery for call up to National Service but thankfully failed the medical. Elisabeth was happy about that but not happy enough! 🥲

A number of my work colleagues did go and it did affect them.

I had tried to join the RAAF out of high school but failed their medical, too, because I was very shortsighted - but the army medical said my sight was OK as it was fully corrected with glasses. Without glasses, I couldn’t see the sights on the end of a Lee-Enfield (I knew this because I was in the Air Cadets).

[4bee]

Coincidentally, last night I watched the old 60 Minutes story about Long Tan, then watched John Schumann’s story about “I was only 19”, then the music video.

As always, I was affected by the song.

I don’t know how many pick up on Frankie’s stepping on a mine when man stepped on the moon and that Frankie was going home in June - Frankie should have gone home a month earlier. Armstrong stepped on the moon on 20th July, 1969 (21st here?).

I won (?) the lottery for call up to National Service but thankfully failed the medical. Elisabeth was happy about that but not happy enough! 🥲

A number of my work colleagues did go and it did affect them.

I had tried to join the RAAF out of high school but failed their medical, too, because I was very shortsighted - but the army medical said my sight was OK as it was fully corrected with glasses. Without glasses, I couldn’t see the sights on the end of a Lee-Enfield (I knew this because I was in the Air Cadets).



GORD YOU WERE POSH !. A Lee Enfield? Try loading a Musket on the run. One keeps Dropping the "Push/ loading rod" as it tangles in on one's size 10s.[bigrolf]


Yep, an everlasting toon of the 60s You just hear a couple of bars & you are back there, not that I saw any Nasho of later years but it was of those times & well remembered.

[ChookD2]

Thanks Diver, an hour of my time well spent.

This type of information should be presented to EVERY service member returning to Australia. Whether from a war zone or peace keeping mission.

When I departed East Timor in February 2000 I spent about 5-10 mins with a Psych who asked several questions. You just give them the answers you know they want to hear. One less administrative issue to deal with.

On arrival back home...... take a **** load of leave, then back to work. A few weeks later have a medal pinned on your chest.

Defence made absolutely zero effort to reach out, to check in, to even bother once you returned. I had a young soldier in my troop who came back from Banda Ache following our response to the Tsunami in 2004. Dealing with that much death and destruction effected him but there was no monitoring, no follow up by Defence. Then about a year later he started to exhibit some .... strange behaviours which alerted us to his plight. Broke his marriage.

Fortunately I have mostly been able to cope, sure there were a few 'issues' at home, at work (military) and in civilian life after. In my case, thankfully, not to any significant level. Perhaps because I was a civilian longer than I was a soldier, late starter at Kapooka at age 31.

You don't have to be ex-military to have PTSD. You may have had some other kind of traumatic incident in your life.

TALK!! TO SOMEONE!!

[p38arover]

A friend’s wife was an army psych. Now a Lt Col in the reserves, still as a psych and practicing privately as well. She’s been treating an ex-colleague of mine who has PTSD.

[Tins]

I don’t know how many pick up on Frankie’s stepping on a mine when man stepped on the moon and that Frankie was going home in June - Frankie should have gone home a month earlier. Armstrong stepped on the moon on 20th July, 1969 (21st here?).



I certainly did. I allowed "artistic license" on that one.

I knew many guys who drew the Nasho straw, mostly brothers of my mates, as we were too young. But, I joined the ARA on 12/07/1972 fully expecting to deploy. That was the point of the RAEME course I did. Having met a number of blokes who did deploy, I reckon I dodged a bullet ( make what you will of that "pun"). But, I was spat at in the street in my uniform, as if I was responsible for what went on over there. Can't imagine how that would have impacted on those that did go, especially considering that most were conscripted.

I have close relatives who deployed more recently to more arid theatres. I'm pleased to say that they receive far better support. But there are still scars I can't talk about.

[NavyDiver]

Thanks Diver, an hour of my time well spent.

This type of information should be presented to EVERY service member returning to Australia. Whether from a war zone or peace keeping mission.

When I departed East Timor in February 2000 I spent about 5-10 mins with a Psych who asked several questions. You just give them the answers you know they want to hear. One less administrative issue to deal with.

On arrival back home...... take a **** load of leave, then back to work. A few weeks later have a medal pinned on your chest.

Defence made absolutely zero effort to reach out, to check in, to even bother once you returned. I had a young soldier in my troop who came back from Banda Ache following our response to the Tsunami in 2004. Dealing with that much death and destruction effected him but there was no monitoring, no follow up by Defence. Then about a year later he started to exhibit some .... strange behaviours which alerted us to his plight. Broke his marriage.

Fortunately I have mostly been able to cope, sure there were a few 'issues' at home, at work (military) and in civilian life after. In my case, thankfully, not to any significant level. Perhaps because I was a civilian longer than I was a soldier, late starter at Kapooka at age 31.

You don't have to be ex-military to have PTSD. You may have had some other kind of traumatic incident in your life.

TALK!! TO SOMEONE!!

I was a bit skeptical when I started watching. When he got to the crux of his thoughts our reactions honed by years of training may be 'a' factor in our relationships and sadly for some trauma I was impressed and very interested.

As always I think about the 15 year old me or the 17 year old me who had moved in two ships more than 1/2 round the world before I had a free beer and horrified the Los Angeles barman who gave it to me for my 18th birthday :)

Knowledge and understanding in psychology is helpful in caring and understanding why we or those we know have traits and habits formed by our history.

I still stick by my "Very Very Lucky" handle. Not feeling fantastic at times right now but I know I will be better knowing why some things may be caused by some or many things.

The feeling of 'emptiness' or lost at sea when I discharged is a moment like your thoughts about Defense.

Note Open Arms Open Arms - Veterans & Families Counselling (https://www.openarms.gov.au/) Is available IF we seek or need help. We all know help is not perfect for everyone. That leaves some lost and/or at significant risk sadly.

We get to see the good, the bad and the very ugly of outcomes.


"TALK!! TO SOMEONE!!" Like my running. Run repeat and do it again!


Sorry Lionel for upsetting you. I know you care and worked deeply on this subject sir!

[Lionelgee]

Sorry Lionel for upsetting you. I know you care and worked deeply on this subject sir!

Hello Navy-Diver,

Not upset. More an instance of the Twilight Zone theme being played. I had just received a document that I wrote about the Abyss and PTSD from my proofreader the same morning that you posted the link to the Youtube clip. I had some thoughts running around in my mind that I captured on paper before heading off to bed at 2:30 the night before. Serendipity or just plain freaking Twilight Zone stuff.

I was nodding my head all the way through Nic's excellent instructional video. The link to the military culture being enforced throughout the basic and advanced training is so important to emphasize as the main drivers of PTSD within military veterans. How the training in reality deliberately stimulates elements of PTSD that is not defused upon discharge. The explanations of fight and flight were the most clear and practical that I have come across yet after years of studying military PTSD and PTSD in general. Even though Nic is no doubt retired by now, it would be great to catch-up with him for a yarn.

Kind regards
Lionel

[Saitch]

A one page precis of Long Tan, by one bloke. Hard to get over, ay!


https://losthistory.net/rnza/tales/longtan1.htm

[3toes]

As noted above this can impact in many ways you might not think about. Father was waiting by the runway to board aircraft for a flight to the Middle East in 1956. Was to secure airfields for RAAF to fly into. All keyed up ready to go. Then stand down as it is all over now and you are not going anywhere. Every time someone refers to him as a veteran he raises this and becomes angry saying is not a veteran. Takes a while before returns to normal grumpy self

[Tins]

As noted above this can impact in many ways you might not think about. Father was waiting by the runway to board aircraft for a flight to the Middle East in 1956. Was to secure airfields for RAAF to fly into. All keyed up ready to go. Then stand down as it is all over now and you are not going anywhere. Every time someone refers to him as a veteran he raises this and becomes angry saying is not a veteran. Takes a while before returns to normal grumpy self

I know how he feels. I'm a Veteran. I have a White Card to prove it.... sure I am. Always felt I got it under false pretences. Given what my uncles did, what my FIL endured on that bloody railway, what my son and nephew did, well.... I never deployed.

But, I went to the same Kapooka, did the same basic, cos Vietnam was still on, last Nasho intake went through not long before. This video explains a hell of a lot, helps me understand why I wound up how I did, goes some way to explain my years and years of substance abuse, my mood swings.

Some here may remember a thread I started on here in 2017. I suppose some would have seen it as self indulgent, to vent grief and loss on here, but even then I think I knew that the only way, the only right thing to do, is to talk. At that time I saw this as a "safe space" in a way. I have been seeing a professional therapist ever since. In the first year I would say absolutely that he kept me alive. What I have learned, not from him but through him, echoes what others here have said. TALK to somebody. What Nic says in the video. What a guy he was, hopefully still is.

That White Card? I got it last year. it has been funding my counsellor since then. After watching that video I feel far more comfortable about that. I still struggle with wearing my Defence Medal on ANZAC Day, but like my Iraq veteran son tells me, I should wear it with pride. Not my fault I didn't go, he says.

Thanks James, for this thread. It took me right back, but managed to do so in a good way. It takes away a lot of the shame I have felt.

For those of you who are avoiding watching the video: Don't. Watch it, it's worth every second. There are a lot of blokes it could have benefited from it, the whole thing, who aren't here, who might have been.

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

Another interesting point is how transportation technology provided a buffer to people experiencing what would later be termed PTSD. When military people were being transported home after the World War II finished the main form of transport was ships. It could take weeks and months in close quarters surrounded by all your mates before the boat docked in Australia. Then it might have taken a couple of weeks before you were demobbed. All this time allowed the fight/flight mode to be in decline while you talked with your mates about plans for the future.

A couple of years ago there was an interview on the ABC of a bomb disposal crew member who served in either Iraq or Afghanistan. He caught the plane from over there one morning and arrived home mid afternoon the next day - or the day after that. His wife was still at work and his kids were at school. He was left alone in the house. By the time his wife and kids got home he was curled up in the foetal position, on the floor crying uncontrollably. He was carted off to hospital in an ambulance, sedated. There was no transition between active duty and returning home. Once he got home it was to an empty house. He was jumped by PTSD. He was not discharged from the military just reassigned from active duty, so there was no compulsory release interactions such as sitting down with the medicos for a quick chat before the release forms are signed.

The advances in technology did no one any favours - no time to what the Americans later called 'Decompression' like the World War II veterans had because of the speed of the transport technology that bought them home.

Kind regards
Lionel

[Tins]

Hello All,

Another interesting point is how transportation technology provided a buffer to people experiencing what would later be termed PTSD. When military people were being transported home after the World War II finished the main form of transport was ships. It could take weeks and months in close quarters surrounded by all your mates before the boat docked in Australia. Then it might have taken a couple of weeks before you were demobbed. All this time allowed the fight/flight mode to be in decline while you talked with your mates about plans for the future.

A couple of years ago there was an interview on the ABC of a bomb disposal crew member who served in either Iraq or Afghanistan. He caught the plane from over there one morning and arrived home mid afternoon the next day - or the day after that. His wife was still at work and his kids were at school. He was left alone in the house. By the time his wife and kids got home he was curled up in the foetal position, on the floor crying uncontrollably. He was carted off to hospital in an ambulance, sedated. There was no transition between active duty and returning home. Once he got home it was to an empty house. He was jumped by PTSD. He was not discharged from the military just reassigned from active duty, so there was no compulsory release interactions such as sitting down with the medicos for a quick chat before the release forms are signed.

The advances in technology did no one any favours - no time to what the Americans later called 'Decompression' like the World War II veterans had because of the speed of the transport technology that bought them home.

Kind regards
Lionel

Very good points, Lionel. My FIL described similar, except he was on a hospital ship, but so many other POWs were too. One of my uncles came home from the ME by sea as well. Sadly, it didn't really help him it seems; a terrible, rushed marriage, a divorce and separation from his kids, and slow suicide by alcohol and isolation. I never knew why, he was a good bloke.
My son and nephew flew home, with a stopover in some desert city. Son is fine, if a little hard. Nephew, not so much, but he now runs a sort of "boot camp" thing to help other vets.
I can't believe that we might go down that path again soon.

"Sag mir wo die Blumen sind
wo sind sie geblieben
Sag mir wo die Blumen sind
was ist geschehen?
Sag mir wo die Blumen sind
Mädchen pflückten sie geschwind
Wann wird man je verstehen
wann wird man je verstehen?"


​Marlene Dietrich.

[ChookD2]

I still struggle with wearing my Defence Medal on ANZAC Day, but like my Iraq veteran son tells me, I should wear it with pride. Not my fault I didn't go, he says.

You signed the ultimate cheque JT (voluntarily), you could have been shipped off anywhere at anytime. For your service you have been awarded the ADM. As you son says, wear it with pride mate.

[Saitch]

Is the term "Veteran" a newish thing? I can't recall it being used by my father, his mates or my rellies.

They used the terms, "Returned Serviceman", "Ex-serviceman" or "Ex-digger".

Also, sadly, I knew of a couple of blokes who were in Viet Nam and who would get a bit stroppy if you were to say to them, "Thank you for your service!" [bigsad]

[austastar]

Hi,
As a kid born just after the war, I grew up in an area where every man I knew in my neighbourhood and family were ex-servicemen. I sensed an unspoken camaraderie and shared experiences amongst them, even though they were not all in the army, and not all served overseas.
Cheers

[Tins]

Is the term "Veteran" a newish thing? I can't recall it being used by my father, his mates or my rellies.

They used the terms, "Returned Serviceman", "Ex-serviceman" or "Ex-digger".

Also, sadly, I knew of a couple of blokes who were in Viet Nam and who would get a bit stroppy if you were to say to them, "Thank you for your service!" [bigsad]

Dunno really. Yes, Returned Serviceman was it for me too. But I guess that's not inclusive enough. It wouldn't include, for example, me. But, it's the Department of Veteran's Affairs. Not sure how long ago it became that. As foe "Ex-Digger", I think Digger is like the Brownlow Medal or the US Presidency, there is no "Ex". Brownlow is forever, as is the POTUS thing, unless you're orange, of course. "Former" is probably OK. But, that's just how I have come to see it.

"Thank you for your service" is a term I believe originated in the US ( same caveat ). I have only heard it fairly recently here. I have had it said to me at the Dawn Service. I deem it inappropriate in my case, but I'm reluctant to say so. I'm sure they mean well. Like all the survivors of that bloody railway, my FIL is no longer here to ask what he thinks of it. Perhaps I'll ask my son following 25/04/2025.

[ninchi]

Also, sadly, I knew of a couple of blokes who were in Viet Nam and who would get a bit stroppy if you were to say to them, "Thank you for your service!"

There's a few things here. Firstly, nashos didn't choose to serve - before my time, but I can imagine being thanked for being randomly drafted by your birthdate to fight in a political conflict might not feel as warm and fuzzy as the thanker intended. Something like 70% of American veterans dislike it, never mind diggers.

Secondly, it's very much an Americanism, and resisting American cultural imperialism is a thing worth doing in its own right.

Finally, and for me most importantly (having served 7 years in the ARA) is that "thank you for your service" is ultimately a cynical part of the American recruiting machine, same as stealth bomber flyovers at NFL games. It's a way to tempt kids into joining, because veterans get "respect" that they don't get working at McDonalds. The people saying it mean well, but they are ultimately participating in that manipulation unconsciously.

[Tins]

There's a few things here. Firstly, nashos didn't choose to serve - before my time, but I can imagine being thanked for being randomly drafted by your birthdate to fight in a political conflict might not feel as warm and fuzzy as the thanker intended. Something like 70% of American veterans dislike it, never mind diggers.

Secondly, it's very much an Americanism, and resisting American cultural imperialism is a thing worth doing in its own right.

Finally, and for me most importantly (having served 7 years in the ARA) is that "thank you for your service" is ultimately a cynical part of the American recruiting machine, same as stealth bomber flyovers at NFL games. It's a way to tempt kids into joining, because veterans get "respect" that they don't get working at McDonalds. The people saying it mean well, but they are ultimately participating in that manipulation unconsciously.

Thank you. I was trying to think of a "polite" way of putting it. You have that covered.

However, not all who served in the Vietnam War were Nashos, of course. I have come to believe that none of them should have been though. Combat soldiers should always be those who volunteer. I don't believe in conscription, but if they must do it then let those they press-gang remain here to do non combat duties.

Anyway, it was all a long time ago. I wonder if we have learnt anything from it.

[Saitch]

There's a few things here. Firstly, nashos didn't choose to serve - before my time, but I can imagine being thanked for being randomly drafted by your birthdate to fight in a political conflict might not feel as warm and fuzzy as the thanker intended. Something like 70% of American veterans dislike it, never mind diggers.

Secondly, it's very much an Americanism, and resisting American cultural imperialism is a thing worth doing in its own right.

Finally, and for me most importantly (having served 7 years in the ARA) is that "thank you for your service" is ultimately a cynical part of the American recruiting machine, same as stealth bomber flyovers at NFL games. It's a way to tempt kids into joining, because veterans get "respect" that they don't get working at McDonalds. The people saying it mean well, but they are ultimately participating in that manipulation unconsciously.

Thank you for this. As Tins said, this is very well put and conveys the sentiment of my post to a 'T'.

[W&KO]

There is becoming a bit of decide between those that have deployed to those that haven’t/didnt.

Doesn’t bother me what people choose to refer to me as as I don’t refer myself as any off them. I had no intention of deploying during my 9 year commitment…..I was counting the days until I could leave. I was just a number doing my job….which I did do damn good, just didn’t get the soldier first part.

I have had one person jump up and shake my hand and say ‘thankyou for your service’, I had only just met him for the first time at work. It made me feel awkward but went along with it as he seemed very happy to be able to say to so somebody that had served.

[101RRS]

Is the term "Veteran" a newish thing? I can't recall it being used by my father, his mates or my rellies.

They used the terms, "Returned Serviceman", "Ex-serviceman" or "Ex-digger".

Also, sadly, I knew of a couple of blokes who were in Viet Nam and who would get a bit stroppy if you were to say to them, "Thank you for your service!" [bigsad]

"Thankyou for your service", and "Veteran" are just further examples of the Americanisation of our terms - I would like to see the traditional terms remain.

[Lionelgee]

"Thankyou for your service", and "Veteran" are just further examples of the Americanisation of our terms - I would like to see the traditional terms remain.

Hello 101RRS,

Good luck with that - especially since the ABC, our National Broadcaster is spelling 'gaol' - the correct English spelling, as jail - the American spelling. While I am writing this the American spellchecker is showing an error in spelling for gaol.

Days of the month used to be the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th.... The Americans use May 1 ... now all the broadcasters are using the Americanism. Damn, this isn't the cranky old buggers' thread is it! Grumble ... grumble.

Kind regards

[Tins]

Hello 101RRS,

Good luck with that - especially since the ABC, our National Broadcaster is spelling 'gaol' - the correct English spelling, as jail - the American spelling. While I am writing this the American spellchecker is showing an error in spelling for gaol.

Days of the month used to be the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th.... The Americans use May 1 ... now all the broadcasters are using the Americanism. Damn, this isn't the cranky old buggers' thread is it! Grumble ... grumble.

Kind regards

It will be m/d/y next. Oh yes, and aloominum and soddering.

[NavyDiver]

Is the term "Veteran" a newish thing? I can't recall it being used by my father, his mates or my rellies.

They used the terms, "Returned Serviceman", "Ex-serviceman" or "Ex-digger".

Also, sadly, I knew of a couple of blokes who were in Viet Nam and who would get a bit stroppy if you were to say to them, "Thank you for your service!" [bigsad]
I like thank you. "Thank you for your service!" popped up a few years ago. Its feels weird having it said to me! I appreciate the sentiment gesture despite my discomfort.

Ex- Pusser or Ex Matlow fits this black duck [thumbsupbig]

[ramblingboy42]

I am currently attending 2 different DVA support programs on my white card.

For those that dont know , the white card recognises mental health problems. If you have a white card and feel you could use some help dont hesitate to contact them

My 2 programs involve heart health and longivity and physical health.

In both instances my "coaches" are highly qualified in their roles. My exercise physiologist ....half my age....recognised my mental status and put me in touch with a psycologist who immediately contacted me and talks to me every two weeks.

As an aside to this I was recently diagnosed with Parkinsons Disease and have been put in touch with a Neuro Physiotherapist thru Queensland Health and she is amazing.

Just to top it off I am a diabetic type2 and have had some very recent hypoglycaemic incidents and will be talking with a diabetic educator and my GP on thursday.

I have informed my coaches of this and they have all taken the unnecessary steps to contact each other and to assist in further planning for me.

The amount of open hearted support I have received since around march has been almost indescribable.

I dont know how to say this.....FFS , if you need some support , if you have a white card....contact DVA now....you will get the support you need very quickly.....if you dont have a card but are a returned serviceman , still contact them , they will assist you as much as they can.

thats enough,

Dennis.

[Tins]

What Den said moves me to post this. Around 7 years ago ( not quite ) I started a thread here. I had just learned that my wife was quite ill. I was terrified, with good reason as it happened. Two months later she was dead, and I was alone. You learn a lot about who your "friends" are.

That thread, which some of you may recall, was probably seen as self indulgent, but at the time, between the learning and the final day, sitting here, with no one to talk to, it seemed that AULRO was my only outlet. I have to say, the amount of support, both sympathetic and empathetic, was astonishing, and humbling. I will be forever grateful.

Anyway, a journey began. It wasn't a journey I am proud of. I was always a bit of a drinker, but without Jan to temper me I dug a hole, filled it with booze, and jumped in. I became what is best described as a high functioning alcoholic. If not for regular counselling, and the need to care for my very elderly mother I doubt I would still be alive. When mum died I really let go. I stayed on here, and no doubt I was often quite rude. For that I apologise.

The counselling I mentioned came from two places. The first was a sponsored year of grief counselling, which also led to regular psychological sessions. These were funded by Medicare, 10 a year. This doubled due to the mental health concerns that arose out of that which shall not be named but hat the number 19 in it. This added support was later withdrawn. I still see "Andrew" regularly, but these days the DVA fund him. Until last year I had no idea that a DVA White Card was a thing.

A theme on this thread is that we should talk. Indeed. That is what I was doing, back on 21/11/2017 when I started that thread. That was totally out of character for me, but I learnt how vital it is. Bottling stuff up, as men so often do, is not tough, it's stupid.

What prompts me to say all this, apart from Den's post, is that today marks the second anniversary of me giving up alcohol. I have no idea how I did this. I had no help. I didn't use AA. I just did. I am proud of that. And it took away a number of "blinkers" I had. It also opened up new paths which I will now travel on. And it allowed me to see other things, including help from such entities as the DVA. They don't advertise.

I will have to follow up some of the stuff you mentioned, Den. I have recently discovered that I am pre diabetic, and have also seen a diabetes educator, and had numerous scans. I also have to have another CT to follow up something they saw last year when they were X-raying my broken back. I will be 71 next month. So far I had managed to stay out of the clutches of the doctors... But, if Jan had not done the same, and had had regular checkups, they would probably have detected the hep C that eventually killed her, so the doctors will be seeing me more often.

A while back I tried to get a mental health sub forum going on here. I understand how fraught such a thing could be. Threads like this one will have to do. I have learned a lot about why things are. As Lionel could tell us, the roots are far deeper than military service, but a lot is explained.

Once again, thanks James.