Thinking of dipping toes into the P38 world....

[Taz]

For the past 2 years I go past a nice looking Thor 4.6 on my daily walk. I think it has got into my system. Spoke to the owner who is ready to sell only inspection indicated lots of issues. I'm hoping you folks could tell me if any are major...

Things like phantom 'fuse failed' messages (hopefully just the fuse box and the not the BeCM), the three amigos (but they didnt stay on during the drive), open book symbol on aircon (presumably blend motors), aircon needs re gassing (ie a leak somewhere), sensitive steering, and sluggish performance (although it was the first time I have driven a P38). Also stuff like a diff input shaft seal leak, a minor coolant leak and a possible rear main seal (which doesn't worry me). Otherwise it is very good condition, not a lot of K's etc and I'd be doing all the work myself. Yet if parts cost more than say 3K to get it up to scratch then it is probably not economically viable.

Appreciate your wisdom
Cheers
Taz

[Tins]

"Sensitive" steering. In what way? Not sure if the P38 is the same, but this, on a D2, is often just that the toe is set incorrectly. D2s are toe out, not toe in, and many shops get this wrong. It makes the steering 'squirrelly'. P38s share quite a lot with D2s, until they don't.

Just a thought.

[prelude]

Hey Taz, please, join the dark side of range rover ownership [biggrin]

I agree with Tins on the steering; probably alignment issue and possibly tyres.

All in all, if you are a handy bloke with the right tools these cars are not too bad to work on. The venerable rover V8 has many many parts still around in all shapes and sizes but they did have some issues later in life you are probably already aware of?

Did it mention what fuse failed? The BeCM measures current going through components and gives feedback when something is out of spec. That's how it knows for example that a light has failed. I reckon it is the same with fuses. If it's on the BeCM side, reseat them and check for dirt/corrosion. If it's up front those fuse boxes do tend to go wrong.

The three amigo's can have several reasons, see if you can borrow a fault reader and check out the ABS for errors. Same goes for the A/C.

in terms of economically viable... That depends ;) From what I can see on your list right now and guessing you will be doing the work yourself you should certainly not need 3k to get her fixed up. I would however be a bit careful or should I say conservative with calculating the running costs of this beast. They are getting on in age and some parts are simply no longer available new or aftermarket.

Cheers!
-P

[Taz]

Thanks Prelude - very helpful

Sorry I cant remember which fuse that the binnacle said was failed, but owner said he checked fuses and they are OK (he is a sparky) - hence phantom msg. If it is the BeCM then I assume worst case scenario is buying a donor car for it's BeCM, ECU, fob and locks. I did see some 10 year old posts of people being able to repair the BeCM in country, but I assume they are long gone.

I'm hoping that since the engine is original, and hence lasted so far, that if I keep the cooling system in good condition I could avoid the slipped liners issues. Otherwise their is a local guy who can fit top hat liners for 2.5k.

400nm @ 2600 should make for a quiet comfy tow vehicle for our 1.3 tonne camper. ...which is comparable to the 4.4v8 L322 variants at the same RPM and I'm guessing the running costs of the P38 would not be higher than the L322 and perhaps a little less complicated, but I say that with no experience or confidence. Appreciate your thoughts...

The throttle response on this one was wasn't good until it reached about 4000 rpm. Maybe the camshaft is a little tired.

Apart from the transfer case - are there any other unobtainium significant parts ?

Cheers
Taz

[prelude]

Taz,

A missing fuse error on the BeCM side could be a simple repair, not sure. Since I have been diving deeply into that thing lately I can tell you HOW it works :) but let's not dilute this subject. There are companies, unfortunately all UK based, that can reprogram just about anything on the ECU and BECM, even clone them. ie. you would only need to replace the BECM with a new (second hand) unit but it would take time and shipping.

Keeping the cooling system in top condition is indeed very helpful for the longevity and doing oil/filter every 5K is also prudent imho. A worn cam might make the car a bit more sluggish yes and a tired chain would als be in the suspects list. Easy jobs really, just take time not too much money. You will probably find that the engine can be quite blackened on the inside if the previous owner stuck to the oil scheme from land rover :(

You may find that the ZH box though quite capable and certainly reliable in my experience (and still perfectly serviceable) has some trouble keeping a gear when towing on pretty much any kind of gradient. It will shift down from 4th to 3rd quite a lot and the difference between 4th gear wafting and 3rd gear "screaming" is considerable. When shifting down to 3rd it does lock up the torque converter after a short period so that at least is something :) I have towed with the car but anything over 750kg is limited to 80km/h in this country so I never exceeded that (by much :P) and since this country is as flat as the Hay Plains down shifting was never a problem. I did drive through the rest of Europe with a "almost certainly nearly on GVM car *ahem*" quite spirited with the cruise control at 130KPH and it would down shift often on the hills in Germany for example. So: as with everything, depends on what you are going to tow.

The wheel bearings themselves were never meant to be replaceable, you were supposed to buy completely new wheel hubs and they have long since disappeared. After market is still around last time I checked but not sure. Pressing out the old and new ones in will take a 60tonne hydraulic press and some damn strong accessories. So long as the hub survives you are good to go :D The crankshaft pulley is also pretty much out of stock so if/when you are unlucky enough to have one that is worn out, a wrecker is the only option pretty much.

I think you can have a good run with the car, but for how long certain parts remain available is anyones guess. Get a good price, fix er up properly now that parts are available and enjoy it for a number of years :)

Cheers,
-P

[Taz]

Thanks for sharing your experience and for your encouragement Prelude - much appreciated. I'm looking forward to enjoying the ownership journey. Fingers crossed it goes well.

Cheers,
Taz

[Hoges]

You are a brave man![thumbsupbig]
Disclosure: I'm an almost reformed P38 addict with many hundreds of posts on this forum blogging my P38 ownership journey......

I'd add firstly that you can't survive without a diagnostic device ...there are a couple of bespoke ones available from "Black Box Solutions" for a reasonable price.
The P38 certainly grows on you.... However the brutal reality is that there are some "single point failure" bits which will render it inoperable. The BECM for example has a couple of MOSFETs on the motherboard, which, in the rare event require replacing, are virtually unobtainable. The key fob has to be programmed in the UK and costs a fortune to replace. The key fob, driver's door lock and BECM were integrated as a matched set during the vehicle's production. They can't normally be substituted without complicated reprogramming, far beyond any usual DIY capability. Essentially if you need to change the driver's door lock (a well known wearing part) then the other two components require reprogramming....

Wasn't sure where you're located... A credit card number, Friday night phonecall east coast Australian time to independent suppliers in the UK and often you'll have a package by the following Wed/Thurs. at half the price (even at the current GBP/A$ exchange rate) and a week earlier than if you ordered through JLR locally. I've purchased camshafts, viscous coupling for the t/f case and all manner of stuff over the years. However you need to become " invested" in it... like the good folk Christian and Vera on the YouTube LR Time....
There are several cracked versions of Land Rover "Microcat" parts/exploded diagrams on the net.
If you go ahead with it...enjoy the journey... but it will end up costing you in excess of $3k ....and devour your "thinking time" .... [bigwhistle]

[p38arover]

Lee Bourgeois of Labtronx in Mittagong did BECM and other P38A repairs, especially locks and fobs. https://www.labtronx.com.au/

[Taz]

Hi Folks

Back to trying to sort out my BECM issues after an enjoyable trip down to Cheynes Beach WA over xmas. Still have sluggish performance but I plan to tackle that later. I'm getting 'failed fuse' messages for fuse 2, 9, 10, 14, 15, 20 & 22. I removed the fuse box in the engine bay and that looked fine, so I removed the BECM and separated the power board for close inspection under a magnifying glass, and that too looks pristine. No sign of corrosion, damaged components nor any sign of excessive heat. No obvious dry solder joints either. I guess it's unlikely to be 7 failed transistors that sense the associated voltage across the 'failed' fuses so I presume it's more likely to be dry joints somewhere or failed components with no visible signs. Although I'm not keen to go over the slightly dodgy looking joints with a soldering iron as the chances of me damaging the board is probably not worth it. Plan is to find another BECM and swap power boards and if that does not work then clone it.

Anyway - whilst I know that I'm dreaming - just wondering if anyone has (or knows of) a used BECM (highline version with serial number starting with "YWC") lying around ?
Cheers

192318

[Taz]

If anyone else is looking, there appears to be lots of used BECM's on Ebay UK.

Also for those of us on the west coast, Mark at Autocode still has the ability to clone BECM's : Mobile Vehicle Diagnostics & Performance Tuning | Auto Code (https://www.autocode.com.au/)

Cheers

[DieselLSE]

[QUOTE=prelude;3236252]
Keeping the cooling system in top condition is indeed very helpful for the longevity... [QUOTE]

I'd like to expand on this sage piece of advice, lest it be overlooked.
Don't just look at the flow rate of the P38 radiator and feel comfortable that it looks OK. It won't be. Even from this distance, I can guarantee that your radiator is at least 25% blocked. Even if it had been re-cored within the last two years. And because they are undersized, they cannot tolerate any restriction.
I know of one Indy owner who re-cored or replaced the radiator every year (he towed a boat on his annual holiday). Due to his experience, I asked the mechanic in New Zealand to check the radiator of a P38 I was buying sight unseen. He reported back that it flowed OK and was a bit taken aback when I insisted it be removed and flushed or re-cored or whatever. He reported back that it turned out it was about 33% blocked after all.
The Indy I mentioned above was regularly replacing overheated P38 engines, all of them caused by blocked radiators.

[Taz]

Thanks for your helpful advice DieselLSE

It will be used for towing and whilst I only saw temps reach 97deg towing a 1.4ton camper trailer in 38deg heat up hills - it still sounds like sound advice. Particularly since it feels down on power and once I sort that out (thinking cam, lifters and chain atm) it may running hotter.

Cheers

[aussiebushman]

Hate to be negative, but as someone who has owned 8 Classics and 2 P38s I must warn you that the latter can be a heap of expensive trouble. Certainly top class maintenance is the way to avoid many of the problems, but in my experience, several aspects of the design and the manufacturing were flawed.

The EAS is probably the worse offender, but not the only one. If the engine has ever overheated, there is a substantial risk of a liner slipping - especially on the 4.6 engines

My advice is to get a complete list from the seller of everything than has been done as well as a pre-purchase check by an experienced and trusted specialised Land Rover service shop (not your local garage) Whatever the latter costs will be worthwhile and can save you a considerable amount of money