No power steering at low/no revs

[hankdusty]

Having a bit of a run with the old gal lately! When it rains it pours it seems. 03 d2a td5

After replacing pas pump that was leaking heavy with a hobourn pump from island4x4 all was good for a couple weeks and now there’s no power steering at no/low revs

Initially bled it by taking off reservoir cap and turning wheel back and forth numerous times. Couple weeks later when it started playing up I bled it further by connecting a 6mm hose to the bleed nipple running it to the reservoir, still no change

Have wd40’d up the u joint on the intermediate shaft and then white lithium grease but still no dice. When driving the steering is fine which would lead me to believe these are okay?

No leaks, reservoir stays full, believe the pump is sound as there’s lots of movement in the tank when running and also when bleeding with the hose from nipple to reservoir the pump pushed the fluid as it should. So pump pumping = pump working in my mind?

Would love and appreciate any suggestions of a next move here, cheers guys

[hankdusty]

any intel on testing a pump fellers? thoughts lean towards that and getting in touch with island4x4 about how to send back to them etc, but would prefer to ascertain if its sound or not before sending it around the world

have done extensive searching of forums and now just rereading the same old threads as theres only so many combinations of "pas" "heavy steering" "low revs" "idle" etc keywords lol

[TonyC]

Hi,

Mt 300Tdi Defender, and I would assume the D1, workshop manual has a whole section on diagnosing steering problems, including testing the pump.

Does the D2 manual have this?

Tony

[Bohica]

RAVE has a section on testing the pressure of the steering system, using a special tool. That seems to be it.

[hankdusty]

RAVE has a section on testing the pressure of the steering system, using a special tool. That seems to be it.

right you are! just a couple pages deeper in to rave than i was. and a special tool that i do not have haha, time for a specialist unfortunatley

[Bohica]

right you are! just a couple pages deeper in to rave than i was. and a special tool that i do not have haha, time for a specialist unfortunatley

You are in high range?

[hankdusty]

You are in high range?

Hey Bohica i am

Spoke to a hydraulics company suggested by the lr mechanics i go to and will take off pump and go see those guys. he asked if when it was warm and i put it in neutral and put a little pressure on the steering wheel left or right then raised the revs , if it increased the power steering assistance, which i tried last night and it did. So he said this points at the pump over anything else in the system which makes sense. dont think ill bother attempting to go down warranty/return route with island4x4 even tho i have emailed them to sniff out how this would look.. think that will just take forever, dissapointing though!

going to take off pump and take out to the boys next week and see what theyre saying

[AK83]

Two times I've have same issue types(no power at low revs).

Old P6B Rover, one of the hoses had internally collapsed somehow. Not sure exactly what the technical issue was back then, but after changing the pump, had the same issue. Noticed the old hose was looking old, so off chance just replaced it, which fixed the issue.

Other similar problem was more recently, just a few years ago, the Tdi did the same thing. When parking, had to keep revs up to swing wheels easily. just changed pump, problem gone.

Could just be a dud pump.

[hankdusty]

Could just be a dud pump.

Think this the one ak! Lil disappointed as this is why I went for the hobourn but win some lose some!

[AK83]

Think this the one ak! Lil disappointed as this is why I went for the hobourn but win some lose some!

yeah, can happen ... could be clone too.

... sneaky Chinesiums they can be ... :bat:

[discorevy]

If a Hobourn pump is what was ordered from Island 4x4, then I'm pretty sure that will be what you will have received, I have been dealing with David (owner) for over 15 years and I'm yet to receive something other than what was ordered. ( the pump should have been marked with the name)

Before pulling it out, get the front wheels off the ground and see if there is excessive resistance with engine off. (you should be able to turn the wheel, lock to lock with an with index finger)

Undo 1 end of the steering damper and check if it has a smooth operation.

Recheck resistance without the damper, if it's still not right, drop an end of the track rod and check it then, if it's still not right, then at least you can rule stuff out ( the steering wheel should have next to no resistance and moving the track rod lock to lock the same ).

If all that check out, then, assuming you have used the right fluid, then test the pump and hoses.

[hankdusty]

If a Hobourn pump is what was ordered from Island 4x4, then I'm pretty sure that will be what you will have received, I have been dealing with David (owner) for over 15 years and I'm yet to receive something other than what was ordered. ( the pump should have been marked with the name)

Before pulling it out, get the front wheels off the ground and see if there is excessive resistance with engine off. (you should be able to turn the wheel, lock to lock with an with index finger)

Undo 1 end of the steering damper and check if it has a smooth operation.

Recheck resistance without the damper, if it's still not right, drop an end of the track rod and check it then, if it's still not right, then at least you can rule stuff out ( the steering wheel should have next to no resistance and moving the track rod lock to lock the same ).

If all that check out, then, assuming you have used the right fluid, then test the pump and hoses.

hey discorevy, cheers for the reply. did query when i received the pump and no hobourn sticker or anything like the leaking pump i pulled out

191877
191876

jumped ahead to pulling the pump and getting it tested for peace of mind

[discorevy]

Pss must have bought Hobourn from Melling, who bought out Hobourn in the 2000's, it's hard to keep up. Interested to know if it'll pass the test.

Cheers

[sierrafery]

I feel for you. Unfortunately the weak D2 PAS pump issue seems to be quite common these days and it's a nightmare, it's full of all kind of aftermarkets some of them badly manufactured while that OEM/OE suffix is a complete marketing scam, happenned to a friend who bought a so called OEM(also PSS), wasnt good(same symptoms like your's), sent it back, got another which was better but still not good enough, sent it back again, asked for refund and bought a clearey branded Stark one made in germany which seems OK, similar stories on other forums too so don't be amazed if the pump was weak from the beginning.

[Slunnie]

I feel for you. Unfortunately the weak D2 PAS pump issue seems to be quite common these days and it's a nightmare, it's full of all kind of aftermarkets some of them badly manufactured while that OEM/OE suffix is a complete marketing scam, happenned to a friend who bought a so called OEM(also PSS), wasnt good(same symptoms like your's), sent it back, got another which was better but still not good enough, sent it back again, asked for refund and bought a clearey branded Stark one made in germany which seems OK, similar stories on other forums too so don't be amazed if the pump was weak from the beginning.

Might be my issue too. Mind you, new Kingpin ball joints made a difference too!

Hey Sierrafery, do you know if there is a Td5 PAS Pump manufacturer that is known to be good? Was the Stark one for a Td5? I'm assuming most of the factory ones are worn out these days.

[sierrafery]

Might be my issue too. Mind you, new Kingpin ball joints made a difference too!

Hey Sierrafery, do you know if there is a Td5 PAS Pump manufacturer that is known to be good? Was the Stark one for a Td5? I'm assuming most of the factory ones are worn out these days.
Yes, Stark for Td5 seems to be OK, i saved one to my favorites folder based on my friend's experience for the case i need one, google out SKHP-0540223 ... i've heard that the PSP4205 made by BGA is also good but i know nothing about it

[hankdusty]

Yes, Stark for Td5 seems to be OK, i saved one to my favorites folder based on my friend's experience for the case i need one, google out SKHP-0540223 ... i've heard that the PSP4205 made by BGA is also good but i know nothing about it


good to have these references for these pumps as with extensive searching the hobourn/pss from island4x4 was the most reputable i could find, mostly was just britpart, allmakes, or unnamed, pattern parts etc

[hankdusty]

I feel for you. Unfortunately the weak D2 PAS pump issue seems to be quite common these days and it's a nightmare, it's full of all kind of aftermarkets some of them badly manufactured while that OEM/OE suffix is a complete marketing scam, happenned to a friend who bought a so called OEM(also PSS), wasnt good(same symptoms like your's), sent it back, got another which was better but still not good enough, sent it back again, asked for refund and bought a clearey branded Stark one made in germany which seems OK, similar stories on other forums too so don't be amazed if the pump was weak from the beginning.

yeah pretty annoying! quite interested to see what the power steering specialists say.

left them with the hobourn/pss pump thats a bout a month old, and then my factory hobourn pump thats split in half and missing the dowel pin as i squished that when seperating the two halves somehow , and a rebuild kit

so hopefully they can make something work out off these 3 pieces!!

factory pump was mint, except for the leaking past the gasket, and the replacement didnt leak but also didnt work lol

[Slunnie]

Yes, Stark for Td5 seems to be OK, i saved one to my favorites folder based on my friend's experience for the case i need one, google out SKHP-0540223 ... i've heard that the PSP4205 made by BGA is also good but i know nothing about it
Thanks very much for this, I'll check that out.

good to have these references for these pumps as with extensive searching the hobourn/pss from island4x4 was the most reputable i could find, mostly was just britpart, allmakes, or unnamed, pattern parts etc
Same, I have a "Quality Aftermarket" and this just reinforces my issue with parts like this that are not Genuine or OEM. When I bought I didn't realise that OEM was available, not that it would have made much difference by the sounds of it.

[hankdusty]

been busy and haven't got around to wrapping this up here, was the pump

had the hobourn pump tested by the hydraulics specialist , no good. was taken apart and the front plate had been chewed in to by the shaft, will post a pic when i get home. not clear how this happened but perhaps was being pulled forward by the pulley? how this would happen beats me (high chance there could be installation/user error at play here) theres only one way the pump can be bolted in.. and then the pulley bolted on to the pump.. belt fairly new also and didnt pull previous pump/pulley forward - only replaced factory pump due to progressively worsening leaks, always worked fine. 240km not a bad innings for part tho i reckon!

[sierrafery]

had the hobourn pump tested by the hydraulics specialist , no good...
At least you know what was wrong now... though based on the picture you posted earlyer that's not a hobourn pump, it's an aftermarket delivered by PSS Hydraulics which seems not reputable enough worldwide as to be listed by international traders where the most common brands are shown(new or remanufactured), see how many brands you can find here Just a moment... (https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/oem/qvb101240'search=OEN+QVB101240) and some (for example Mapko or ERA Benelux) are mentioning at the top "Manufacturer Restriction: Hobourn Eaton" ... it's a whole mess these days with brands and full of marketing scams, IMO it became a lottery, needs lots of research for real reviews from customers cos the company's self advertesiments are not reliabe anymore. For me it's clear, i'll never buy a PSS product from now on no matter if they claim it's OEM or not. Good luck

[hankdusty]

At least you know what was wrong now... though based on the picture you posted earlyer that's not a hobourn pump, it's an aftermarket delivered by PSS Hydraulics which seems not reputable enough worldwide as to be listed by international traders where the most common brands are shown(new or remanufactured), see how many brands you can find here Just a moment... (https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/oem/qvb101240'search=OEN+QVB101240) and some (for example Mapko or ERA Benelux) are mentioning at the top "Manufacturer Restriction: Hobourn Eaton" ... it's a whole mess these days with brands and full of marketing scams, IMO it became a lottery, needs lots of research for real reviews from customers cos the company's self advertesiments are not reliabe anymore. For me it's clear, i'll never buy a PSS product from now on no matter if they claim it's OEM or not. Good luck


sorry yeah should have said "hobourn" pump, forgot the quotation marks

thanks for the luck, so far so lucky, but did have 2 good weeks out of the pss pump so fingers crossed

the weird part was wondering if somehow i bolted on the pump and pulley wrong and inadvertantly caused the faceplate to get pulled forward and munched, but dont really see how that could be the case.. only one way to bolt both things on!

[Slunnie]

the weird part was wondering if somehow i bolted on the pump and pulley wrong and inadvertantly caused the faceplate to get pulled forward and munched, but dont really see how that could be the case.. only one way to bolt both things on!

I don't think you can get that part wrong, there's no adjustability in the setup.

[hankdusty]

I don't think you can get that part wrong, there's no adjustability in the setup.


hey slunnie my thoughts exactly!