Defender 2007 : What did you want?

[rmp]

General dissapointment here with the Defender 2007. LR's press release includes this:

"For the first time, high-mounted tweeters are available in Defender and work in conjunction with the new speaker installation for significantly improved clarity and sound reproduction. An auxiliary/MP3 audio input socket is also available."

I don't recall too many campfire conversations where people were saying "gosh my Defender would be just perfect if it only it had come from the factory with tweeters".
My wishlist (a reasonable one, not a dream) would have been:
- airbags
- automatic
- relocated ECU and battery (they may have done this but I doubt it)
- properly strengthend rear door (still will need a rear wheel carrier)
- increased payload (hope we get the heavy-duty versions over here)
- DSC
- Driver-controllable traction control
- HDC
- tighter turning circle
- upgraded headlights
- non-jiggly exterior mirrors
- larger fuel tank (120l would be good thanks)
What, realistically, would you have wanted to see?

[Sandtoyz]

In a nutshell..
All the options available in the UK landies, but never made it to Oz delivered vehicles.
.. and not priced over the top.

[LRHybrid100]

TDV6 or even TDV8!!! along with the ZF 6 speed auto

LRH

[LRHybrid100]

BUT LOVE the new dash and bonnet bulge :D

LRH

[one_iota]

A Defender into which I could fit my legs :eek:

[spudboy]

More footroom for the front passenger (with air con fitted) and wider so you have some elbow room + all the things that RMP asked for.

Will be pretty interested to take a test drive esp if it gets the 6 speed manual. Bigger engine would be nice but if the 2.4 goes well and can be tweaked then I could live with that.

[tombraider]

My wishlist (a reasonable one, not a dream) would have been:
- airbags WHY???? Waste of freakin time
- automatic OK Fair enough here
- relocated ECU and battery (they may have done this but I doubt it)OK Fair enough here
- properly strengthend rear door (still will need a rear wheel carrier)OK Fair enough here but rated to carry WHAT size tyre? My 35s??? they're 36kg EACH
- increased payload (hope we get the heavy-duty versions over here)OK Fair enough here
- DSC Why would you want this pile of electronic crap?
- Driver-controllable traction control OK Fair enough here
- HDC Once again... WHY???
- tighter turning circle OK Fair enough here
- upgraded headlights OK Fair enough here
- non-jiggly exterior mirrors Mine dont jiggle (at all) - Mirrors that is
- larger fuel tank (120l would be good thanks) OK Fair enough here
What, realistically, would you have wanted to see?


How about:

Larger tyre diameter from factory around 35"
Factory Lockers
Height adjustable suspension
Integrated A/C etc... (like upcoming model)
Sound deadening as option
24v electrics
Lower TC low range
Lift up side windows
V6 or V8 Turbo Diesel

Cheers
Tombraider

[JDNSW]

OK, lets start with the most important things
1. Decent dealer network
2. Decent size fuel tank 120l sounds good
3. Reduce door thickness
4. Return to galvanising body capping etc.
5. Child restraint anchorages
6. Reduce empty mass, for example, lighter engine and less gadgets = more payload.

Unlike some of the other wish lists, I have restricted my points to things that would be achievable without a great deal of effort on Landrover's part, although 1. would take a lot of work and probably money.

A lot of the other problems with the Defender would require a complete redesign, which will probably happen eventually, but when it does, my betting is that it will cease to be a real Defender and will be just another four wheel drive with nothing to distinguish it from the competition, and will become much less of a utility vehicle.

John

[p38arover]

My wishlist (a reasonable one, not a dream) would have been:
24v electrics



Why?

Ron

[hiline]

BUT LOVE the new dash and bonnet bulge :D

LRH

same here :D :D

[spudboy]

OK, lets start with the most important things
1. Decent dealer network
.....
John

Why don't they piggyback onto the existing Ford Dealer network, seeing they are ultimately owned by Ford anyway?

[Frenchie]

I like the idea of the tweeters but come on Land Rover...............

















how about a sub-woofer!! :D

[Frenchie]

Seriously though - I wanted the TDV6+6-speed auto! :mad:

Some good suggestions from everyone, yeah a bigger fuel tank.

Portal axles....? :twisted:

A 3-speed transfer case with an ultra-low range, now that would put one up on the opposition.

[Phoenix]

I like some of the changes, the interior is good for example, and I don't mind the bonnet bulge, will reserve my decision on that untill I see it in the flesh though.

A few of the uk options here would be nice, like all the variants, not just the couple we get here. I'd love a 110 dualcab for example.

TDV6 and/or TDV8 with the 6 speed auto would have been great

Relocated ECU a priority.

TR wouldn't be bad, or a more basic multimode TC (as RMP mentioned)

Child restraint points may be there, but otherwise that would be a consideration for me.

Bigger fuel tank, or another sub tank.

factory lockers as an option as well

I won't go into the other things that would be "nice" to have, like the portals and triple transfer case, i'll stick to the reasonable and practical for now ;)

[Bigbjorn]

Why don't they piggyback onto the existing Ford Dealer network, seeing they are ultimately owned by Ford anyway?

"Decent dealer network" was the operative phrase. I have a late model Falcon ute as a workhorse ( as well as the County-Isuzu tourer) and I am not impressed either with the Ford dealers or the product. I call my Falcon the "two-in-one" car, that is the first and the last. Repeated electronic failures and electrical problems, brake rotor wear, poor design and resultant extremely difficult servicability,bad service & poor dealer attitude have turned me away from the F word forever. The electronic/electrical problems were what prompted me to buy the County-Isuzu as being dead simple mechanically, mechanical injection, no electronics, no turbo, no rubberband, all cast iron.

In reality, a distributor has little control over a dealer nowadays with restraint of trade laws preventing a distributor or manufacturer from restricting a dealer taking on other franchises. Unless you are the distributor/manufacturer of a volume seller that is the dealers prime source of income, then you more or less have to take what you get from a dealer unless you can find another better one and are able to sack an unsatisfactory dealer. In country towns, there is often no alternative. With the rationalisation of dealerships by the big three over the last 15-20 years, there are now country towns without a new car dealership which once had several. There are even country towns that no longer have a farm machinery dealer. The establishment of major dealerships in the bigger regional centres have sunk the small town dealers, that is, the ones that were not sacked outright, and just left to wither on the vine.

My experience as a Wholesale Supervisor of a dealer network was that the Zone and State Sales Managers would decide to appoint a dealer. A multi-franchise dealer, in other than a major urban dealership, would get some brochures and price lists for the sales staff, maybe a vehicle or two for stock, a workshop manual, spare parts books, and maybe some fast moving spare parts. Eventually, maybe, some staff might attend service & parts schools. Put another sign up outside and that is your new dealer, who, in most cases is simply hoping that another franchise will mean more new vehicle sales and more profits. Holden, Ford, and Toyota, have more than 50% of the market and the other umpty hundred makes & models have to hustle after the crumbs. Always remember that a dealer's commitment will be to the brand that earns his bread and salt. Land Rover is never likely to be in this category.

[wally]

Defender mirrors don't jiggle. Tighten them and they'll stop.

[numpty]

Most importantly....

a bigger rear vision mirror so I can easily do my hair and put on lipstick at the lights :)

Seriousely.....

A bigger fuel tank would be perfect

as would non-jiggly mirrors. Anyone with ones that stay put must be in the minority

smaller turning circle definitely although power steering helps with this a bit

One thing with the Stage 1... got muscles on my muscles steering out of tight corners without power steering and muscles on my left thumb every time I let the handbrake off :p

Numpty's Missus

[noddy]

Howdy All

I am a tad diappointed with upgraded Defender. Was really hanging out for the ZF 6 speed auto.

I am not all that fussed with the new dash as I have never really found the old one to be that uncomfortable.

What I would have loved to see, and this goes for all LRs, is the addition of a 'Jeep Rubicon' optioned vehicle in the line-up. Sell your standard vehicle, but have an option pack available for those wanting the vehicle for what it was made for. Needs to be more than stickers....

Land Rover could provide an optioned model with each vehicle which included:
- larger wheels
- lockers all round
- reduced low range gearing
- stronger axles
- relocated ECU (well that should happen on the standard)
- long range tanks

The upgraded sound system is nice, but it would have been good for LR to concentrate on what they are really good at and build something which leap-frogs the opposition.

'Kimba' is very happy....just wants one of those new bonnets. Any hail storms this time of the year in Sydney?

[one_iota]

'Kimba' is very happy....just wants one of those new bonnets. Any hail storms this time of the year in Sydney?

Cousin John was really peed off when he saw the bonnet...he needs to modify his to accommodate the new engine and associated bits in his County...he reckons that he's been "pipped to the post" .....there goes another original idea :mad: ;)

[edddo]

A Defender into which I could fit my legs :eek:

hear hear!!:)

[Ruslan]

Portal axles....? :twisted:


Like that :p

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2006/08/19.jpg


smaller turning circle ...
I have fitted 50mm offset rims and turning circle less than my work Commodore V6 has.

[JamesH]

I have no real problem with 300tdi dash - lots of shelf space nice and simple but here as some things I want

1. Amp gauge, oil pressure gauge, turbo temp gauge, water temp sender mounted where you can trust the guage

2. newer smoother engine, TDV6 or something else as long as it delivers better performance

3. I'll tolerate underseat battery though I apreciate the reasons why other won't. I know people who have been fumed. But please tinker with the layout so that twin battery installation is easier

4. Stonger read door for standard rim and tyre mounting at least

5. iPod dock

6. Front and rear lockers to keep up with the Benz G wagen.

7. sub tank or LR tank

8. Vents

9 bonnet mount compatible bonnet.

10. My co -drivers on various trips feel quite strongly that it's about time the swing around sunvisors to keep late afternoon sun streaming in the side windows were installed.

[solmanic]

I think Landrover have had to cater to the established aftermarket accessories industry mostly in the UK but worldwide and avoid many of the items on peoples' wish-lists. They also have had to maintain the gap between the Defender and Discovery specifications, hence no HDC or DSC.

The few things they could change/improve without stepping on the accessories industry's toes they seem to have done in this upgrade (engine, gearbox, soundproofing, dash, ventilation & instrumentation). My only other desires are things like:
Better engine
Stop them leaking.
Better dust sealing.
Heated windscreen (as per UK County spec.)
Make sure the plastic bits are more solid and don't fall off.

[101RRS]

If you all love your Defenders so much why aren't you buying them new? LR sells about a total of 12 a month or something like that so not too many people are prepared to shell the $$$$ on a new one. LR has to do something soon or it will be killed off completely due to poor sales, particularly with the UK army not getting them any more. Sorry capable standard but utilitarian vehicles don't sell any more except if it has a Toyota badge. Landrover needs to make the defender more civilised if it is to live on - it is a dinosaur, albiet a capable one that is a misfit in the 2006 market. While they seem to trade well as second hand vehicles - new car sales are virtually non existant.

Put your hand up if you have bought a new one in the the last 12 months.

Gazzz

[Phoenix]

Put your hand up if you have bought a new one in the the last 12 months.


Would have, but alas no money :(

[tombraider]

Why?

Ron

Easier more powerful, more current available...

Modern vehicles are getting to the stage that vehicle manufacturers are actually looking at going to 36 volt systems to power all the electrics (its coming sooner than later).

Motors eg. winch run better on 24v, more power for lighting (12v is stuff all really) and more reliable... remember the old 6v VW Beetle :cool:

Tombraider

[tombraider]

Put your hand up if you have bought a new one in the the last 12 months.

Gazzz

Why, old one is going just fine :D

Maybe testimony is that older ones are going so well people arent buying new ones...

Cant always have your cake and eat it too :cool:

A better phrase would be...

The Defender is all function in a FORM driven world....

Tombraider

[BigJon]

Easier more powerful, more current available...

Modern vehicles are getting to the stage that vehicle manufacturers are actually looking at going to 36 volt systems to power all the electrics (its coming sooner than later).

Motors eg. winch run better on 24v, more power for lighting (12v is stuff all really) and more reliable... remember the old 6v VW Beetle :cool:

Tombraider

Quite a few years ago it was bandied around in magazines that all cars would go to 48 volt electrics with integrated starter/generator/flywheel technology. The reason being that the higher the volts, the lower the amps for the same work. Therefore smaller cable size can be used.

Personally I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a change like that. The 12 volt systems still work OK and there would be considerable resistance (pun intended) to change.

[Bigbjorn]

Would have, but alas no money :(

Theyare too bloody expensive! Not value for money.

[scrambler]

If you all love your Defenders so much why aren't you buying them new? LR sells about a total of 12 a month or something like that so not too many people are prepared to shell the $$$$ on a new one. LR has to do something soon or it will be killed off completely due to poor sales, particularly with the UK army not getting them any more.

Gazzz

Seems a bit harsh, Gazzz. Sure, the toy sorry, consumer, models sell a lot more, but according to worldwide figures in LRM in June, the Defender had a 17% increase in sales in March '06 compared to March '05, and was only just being outsold by the Range Rover. OK, both the D3 and RRS outsell it more than 2-1 but that's a different market segment altogether. I think that in real terms the Defender is barely supported in Australia and not marketed at all. The poor sales reflect the failure to bring in a basic utility version. Can't believe they don't bring in a base model 110 twin cab.

Now, the UK army ... still drive LRs. Yes, there was a thread a few weeks ago about their light armoured vehicle which isn't an LR, but then you can't mineproof an LR - they're too light. That was, from memory, a 6 ton vehicle. For utility use the LR continues and almost certainly will continue to be the vehicle of choice.

Steve
Steve

[Bigbjorn]

Easier more powerful, more current available...

Modern vehicles are getting to the stage that vehicle manufacturers are actually looking at going to 36 volt systems to power all the electrics (its coming sooner than later).

Motors eg. winch run better on 24v, more power for lighting (12v is stuff all really) and more reliable... remember the old 6v VW Beetle :cool:

Tombraider

I well remember 6 volt cars with generators. They were what nearly all of us drove as young shavers. Most of them could barely cover the draw of high beam lights and a long night run using high beams could mean a starting problem in the morning. Many heavy prime movers have been 24 volt for years and most have voltage reducers fitted to supply 12 volts to the trailer/ trailers. The 12 volt bulbs are mechanically stronger and are less likely to fail from the shaking of empty running or severe outback service on our "roads". The operators that can afford them are going to LED trailer lights and prime mover tail lights, but, as most line haul owner-drivers are paid a pittance and operate on a shoestring, a total chabgeover to LED is a long way off.

[DirtyDawg]

My wishlist (a reasonable one, not a dream) would have been:
- airbags WHY???? Waste of freakin time
- automatic OK Fair enough here
- relocated ECU and battery (they may have done this but I doubt it)OK Fair enough here
- properly strengthend rear door (still will need a rear wheel carrier)OK Fair enough here but rated to carry WHAT size tyre? My 35s??? they're 36kg EACH
- increased payload (hope we get the heavy-duty versions over here)OK Fair enough here
- DSC Why would you want this pile of electronic crap?
- Driver-controllable traction control OK Fair enough here
- HDC Once again... WHY???
- tighter turning circle OK Fair enough here
- upgraded headlights OK Fair enough here
- non-jiggly exterior mirrors Mine dont jiggle (at all) - Mirrors that is
- larger fuel tank (120l would be good thanks) OK Fair enough here
What, realistically, would you have wanted to see?


How about:

Larger tyre diameter from factory around 35"
Factory Lockers
Height adjustable suspension
Integrated A/C etc... (like upcoming model)
Sound deadening as option
24v electrics
Lower TC low range
Lift up side windows
V6 or V8 Turbo Diesel

Cheers
Tombraider



Ditto to what mike said;);)

[harro]

One common theme throughout the thread is that piddly fuel tank.
Why on earth in a country this BIG couldn't they have just given us the option of a bigger tank.
I can just about live with the rest of it, after all it is a Defender and I love the thing.
It takes me where I want to go!

[JDNSW]

I well remember 6 volt cars with generators. They were what nearly all of us drove as young shavers. Most of them could barely cover the draw of high beam lights and a long night run using high beams could mean a starting problem in the morning. Many heavy prime movers have been 24 volt for years and most have voltage reducers fitted to supply 12 volts to the trailer/ trailers. The 12 volt bulbs are mechanically stronger and are less likely to fail from the shaking of empty running or severe outback service on our "roads". The operators that can afford them are going to LED trailer lights and prime mover tail lights, but, as most line haul owner-drivers are paid a pittance and operate on a shoestring, a total chabgeover to LED is a long way off.

When cars first started to get electrics around the end of the first world war, voltage was 4, 6,8 or 12 volts, occasionally higher. This settled down to mostly 6v except for a few luxury cars which were 12v by the mid to late twenties. By the 1930s most manufacturers had changed to 12v except for the US and France and a few economy cars.

After WW2 nearly everyone outside the US had 12v with notable exceptions being VW and Citroen, (and some US subsidiaries such as Holden). Landrover for example had 12v from the start as Rover was already 12v.

Holden changed, I think, in about 1960, but most US cars remained 6v well into the sixties. One of the reasons for this was a legal limit on power of lights that stayed into the 1980s at least. But by then, other power demands were growing, and another factor came in - as more and more electrics were fitted, the sheer bulk and weight of wiring became a problem, and the simplest way of reducing this is to increase the voltage. By doubling the voltage, you can halve the cross section of the wire for the same voltage drop - but it is even better than that, because your voltage is twice as high, you can stand twice the voltage drop you could at the lower voltage, which means you can go to a quarter the cross section, not that i can think of anyone who has actually gone quite that far.

But this makes it clear why manufacturers are looking at even higher voltages - the payoff is very good, for the cost of a somewhat more expensive battery - plus all the bulbs, fittings and electrical devices can only be bought from the manufacturer, at least until it becomes a new standard.

If you look at a car of the early 1920s, it probably had two 24w headlights,
plus two 6w sidelights, and a 6w tail light - total 66w.
By 1930, add an instrument light - 6w, and a stop light, 21w, for a total of 93w (OK, I know they would not be all on at once, and I have left the horn out)
By 1950, most cars now had two tail and stop lights, and the headlights would have been 36w - total 138w.
By 1960, add blinkers, car radio, interior light, maybe boot light, some cars heater fan.
By 1970 increase headlight wattage to probably 55w on high beam, and many cars have four headlights, doubling that, but transistors have reduced the drain of car radios. Drain has increased to where alternators are becoming common (although what actually made them standard was when diodes became cheap enough that alternators were cheaper than generators).
By the 1980s ECUs started to appear, and airconditioning with its fans and compressor clutches started to become common, although it did not become almost standard until the 1990s.
In the 1990s, gadgets such as electric windows and central locking, which had existed since the 1930s, became common.
Since 2000, ABs, multiple CPUs, traction control, electric seats

[JDNSW]

I well remember 6 volt cars with generators. They were what nearly all of us drove as young shavers. Most of them could barely cover the draw of high beam lights and a long night run using high beams could mean a starting problem in the morning. Many heavy prime movers have been 24 volt for years and most have voltage reducers fitted to supply 12 volts to the trailer/ trailers. The 12 volt bulbs are mechanically stronger and are less likely to fail from the shaking of empty running or severe outback service on our "roads". The operators that can afford them are going to LED trailer lights and prime mover tail lights, but, as most line haul owner-drivers are paid a pittance and operate on a shoestring, a total chabgeover to LED is a long way off.

When cars first started to get electrics around the end of the first world war, voltage was 4, 6,8 or 12 volts, occasionally higher. This settled down to mostly 6v except for a few luxury cars which were 12v by the mid to late twenties. By the 1930s most manufacturers had changed to 12v except for the US and France and a few economy cars.

After WW2 nearly everyone outside the US had 12v with notable exceptions being VW and Citroen, (and some US subsidiaries such as Holden). Landrover for example had 12v from the start as Rover was already 12v.

Holden changed, I think, in about 1960, but most US cars remained 6v well into the sixties. One of the reasons for this was a legal limit on power of lights that stayed into the 1980s at least. But by then, other power demands were growing, and another factor came in - as more and more electrics were fitted, the sheer bulk and weight of wiring became a problem, and the simplest way of reducing this is to increase the voltage. By doubling the voltage, you can halve the cross section of the wire for the same voltage drop - but it is even better than that, because your voltage is twice as high, you can stand twice the voltage drop you could at the lower voltage, which means you can go to a quarter the cross section, not that i can think of anyone who has actually gone quite that far.

But this makes it clear why manufacturers are looking at even higher voltages - the payoff is very good, for the cost of a somewhat more expensive battery - plus all the bulbs, fittings and electrical devices can only be bought from the manufacturer, at least until it becomes a new standard.

If you look at a car of the early 1920s, it probably had two 24w headlights,
plus two 6w sidelights, and a 6w tail light - total 66w.
By 1930, add an instrument light - 6w, and a stop light, 21w, for a total of 93w (OK, I know they would not be all on at once, and I have left the horn out)
By 1950, most cars now had two tail and stop lights, and the headlights would have been 36w - total 138w.
By 1960, add blinkers, car radio, interior light, maybe boot light, some cars heater fan.
By 1970 increase headlight wattage to probably 55w on high beam, and many cars have four headlights, doubling that, but transistors have reduced the drain of car radios. Drain has increased to where alternators are becoming common (although what actually made them standard was when diodes became cheap enough that alternators were cheaper than generators).
By the 1980s ECUs started to appear, and airconditioning with its fans and compressor clutches started to become common, although it did not become almost standard until the 1990s, and electrically demisted rear windows became common.
In the 1990s, gadgets such as electric windows and central locking, which had existed since the 1930s, became common.
Since 2000, ABS, multiple CPUs, traction control, electric seats etc have become common, and in the last couple of years GPS, DVD players and similar gadgets.
All of this without even looking at aftermarket current drain devices such as UHF, HF, Mobile phones, laptop computers, added driving lights, fridges etc.

As you can see, and as Brian points out, we are overdue for another increase in the standard voltage, the only question being what it will be - I have seen both 36 and 48 suggested as likely, with even 72V mentioned. The things I can see that could reduce this push is the quite likely change (soon) to LEDs for most lighting, and the use of more efficient CPUs, but this will only push it back a few years I suspect.
John

[bluetongue]

I reckon the new fender will be great.

Tweeters... bring them on. I have tweeters and subwoofer and amp in my fender and I've got to say to go back to a sub-std stereo (like in my commodore) is a big step backward... I love my stereo , especially in shiite peak hour traffic here in sydney. I would go crazy otherwise....

Everyone's complaining about this and that... engine is too small... gearbox isn't auto... dash is too plastic... vents are possibly welded shut....

Who cares ! As if the current fender is perfect... that's the beauty otherwise we'd all be driving german or japanese !!

All I see is the same as what what's sold now with a few minor refinements... it's still the ruff as guts defender as what you can buy today. 90kw td5 Vs 90kw ford trannie

I'm gonna check it out and chances are I'll probably hold onto my 2000 model td5 for a few years anyway and see what happens.

AT LEAST LR ARE STILL PRODUCING AND SELLING DEFENDER IN THE FUTURE. WE GOT TO BE HAPPY ABOUT THAT !!!!!

:D

[Frenchie]

AT LEAST LR ARE STILL PRODUCING AND SELLING DEFENDER IN THE FUTURE. WE GOT TO BE HAPPY ABOUT THAT !!!!!

:D

Amen! :)

[numpty]

Put your hand up if you have bought a new one in the the last 12 months.



I have!!

Numpty and the Missus

[Gav110]

Put your hand up if you have bought a new one in the the last 12 months.



I have!!

Numpty and the Missus
Me too - bought it in April this year. I knew the new model was likely coming but had also heard rumours of the underdone engine and few other changes.

I bought mine as a second car - purely my toy, and frankly the fewer concessions to being a "normal car" the better - hence I love the old classic dash (it's virtually identical to my '76 ex-army 109 soft top I had when I was a younger terror).

I also knew that parts and particularly tuning techniclogy was way ahead for the TD5, and have since had Bruce Davis chip it up to 140KW / 450Nm. In fact he's got it right now installing my GKN o/drive which will still deliver 10% lower revs than the new 6-speeder, and I've also got him fitting up the bigger intercooler (170KW / 550Nm) and 140L tank.

I plan on keeping mine for at least 5 years or until they release the twin turbo V8 !!

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Put your hand up if you have bought a new one in the the last 12 months.



I have!!

Numpty and the Missus
Does May last year count? :)

[stusgonesailing]

I watched mine roll off the ship in Fremantle last weekend.

Should take delivery next month.:D


I just have to break the bad news to the Disco now:(

[JamesH]

I watched mine roll off the ship in Fremantle last weekend.
Should take delivery next month.:D
I just have to break the bad news to the Disco now:(

That's what we like to see; going down and meeting your Defender as it comes off the ship. You don't get Toyota owners doing that, and why would they?

[dobbo]

That's what we like to see; going down and meeting your Defender as it comes off the ship. You don't get Toyota owners doing that, and why would they?

More like how could they, they have that many in stock it'd be improbable.

[one_iota]

I watched mine roll off the ship in Fremantle last weekend.



That's great! :D

It brings a tear to my eye.

All that ship for one Defender...talk about the red carpet treatment.;)

[rmp]

My wishlist (a reasonable one, not a dream) would have been:
- airbags WHY???? Waste of freakin time
- automatic OK Fair enough here
- relocated ECU and battery (they may have done this but I doubt it)OK Fair enough here
- properly strengthend rear door (still will need a rear wheel carrier)OK Fair enough here but rated to carry WHAT size tyre? My 35s??? they're 36kg EACH
- increased payload (hope we get the heavy-duty versions over here)OK Fair enough here
- DSC Why would you want this pile of electronic crap?
- Driver-controllable traction control OK Fair enough here
- HDC Once again... WHY???
- tighter turning circle OK Fair enough here
- upgraded headlights OK Fair enough here
- non-jiggly exterior mirrors Mine dont jiggle (at all) - Mirrors that is
- larger fuel tank (120l would be good thanks) OK Fair enough here
What, realistically, would you have wanted to see?


How about:

Larger tyre diameter from factory around 35"
Factory Lockers
Height adjustable suspension
Integrated A/C etc... (like upcoming model)
Sound deadening as option
24v electrics
Lower TC low range
Lift up side windows
V6 or V8 Turbo Diesel

Cheers
Tombraider


Airbags for safety. Rear door carrier sufficient to carry a 265/75/16 LT tyre on a steel rim over corrugagagatations for 5 years. BTW you sure your 35s are only 36kg?

DSC is bloody useful. I wish all cars had it and all 4WDs the option to disable it.

HDC isn't quite as useful but would be pretty easy to put in so why not.

I don't think larger tyres would be a good option. Just increase fuel consumption and the tranny would need to be stronger and heavier.

Agree re factory lockers.

The new model will be quieter.

Don't follow "lower TC low range" -- isn't 1:62 enough, even with 35s?

[rmp]

New one? Mine is 2.5 years old.

What I like about the new model:

- will be quieter
- use less fuel
- lower low range (love the 1:62)
- more torque, power more available
- dash is great
- expect the seats to be an improvement

really not a huge amount to get excited about. I think missing airbags, auto and DSC was a huge mistake.

BTW my mirrors are as tight as they get!

[Bigbjorn]

Airbags for safety. Rear door carrier sufficient to carry a 265/75/16 LT tyre on a steel rim over corrugagagatations for 5 years. BTW you sure your 35s are only 36kg?

DSC is bloody useful. I wish all cars had it and all 4WDs the option to disable it.

HDC isn't quite as useful but would be pretty easy to put in so why not.

I don't think larger tyres would be a good option. Just increase fuel consumption and the tranny would need to be stronger and heavier.

Agree re factory lockers.

The new model will be quieter



Don't follow "lower TC low range" -- isn't 1:62 enough, even with 35s?
I would like as well as my previous wish list on this thread:-
Gleasman Torsen diffs in all three would be nice, or Detroit lockers as second choice.
Transfer case high range of 1:1 with a five or 6 speed o/d trans in front would make a decent on-road power train, then make the transfer low range as low as is necessary for off-road.
More, more, more room for the driver. Yes, I have said this before. Just making sure the message gets across.
Larger frontal area radiator.
Round headlights, heavy gauge wiring, double relays.
Factory air con. that works in Oz summers. The poms might need to talk to GM or Chrysler about this. The poms won't even put ice in a mixed drink unless you ask or make a fuss. I can live without a/c but if you have it, it should work properly.
Variable duration intermittent wipers.
Large washer bottle (4 or 5 litres) and twin washer pumps.

[DRUT]

I'm in the process of making a base speaker box for the space on the rear wall of my ute (behind the centre console) to improve the sound in my 99 model fender. as a matter of interest the blokes at the car ound shop also suggeted tweeters in a remote mount on either side of the dash (and only $150). Think I'll just ugrade my truk instead of blowing 50k plus for tweeters.:angel:

[tombraider]

Airbags for safety. Rear door carrier sufficient to carry a 265/75/16 LT tyre on a steel rim over corrugagagatations for 5 years. BTW you sure your 35s are only 36kg?

DSC is bloody useful. I wish all cars had it and all 4WDs the option to disable it.

HDC isn't quite as useful but would be pretty easy to put in so why not.

I don't think larger tyres would be a good option. Just increase fuel consumption and the tranny would need to be stronger and heavier.

Agree re factory lockers.

The new model will be quieter.

Don't follow "lower TC low range" -- isn't 1:62 enough, even with 35s?

Yep... The 35's weigh 60 pounds... + a very light Alloy... And the air I used is the reduce fat version :p

DSC is for people who cant drive, point blank.... DSC is a responsibility remover, it takes away the drivers requirement to read the conditions and perform accordingly, replacing it with a "this should get you out of the **** mechanism"

As for Lower Low ratio.... Low is NEVER enough.... I like it low enough you can go low 1st, hop out and out walk the vehicle... Now thats decent crawling!

SRS (from a different post) is once again the marketting worlds perfection!
SRS is to fulfill the safety regs... Its a 'patch' measure to make a vehicle meet compliance requirements, it doesnt necessarily save lives.

Most, if not ALL women, sit within the danger zone of airbags in steering wheels due to stature etc... is this safe? NO....

Defenders have one of the highest safety records in the UK... No airbags... I think this speaks volumes on its own.

Cheers
Tombraider

[scrambler]

SRS (from a different post) is once again the marketting worlds perfection!
SRS is to fulfill the safety regs... Its a 'patch' measure to make a vehicle meet compliance requirements, it doesnt necessarily save lives.

Most, if not ALL women, sit within the danger zone of airbags in steering wheels due to stature etc... is this safe? NO....

Defenders have one of the highest safety records in the UK... No airbags... I think this speaks volumes on its own.

Cheers
Tombraider

Yes, good safety in low-speed crashes where high structural integrity wins out over crumple zones. But is that how we drive them here? As for a "patch" - yes, it's possible to build a vehicle that's safe without airbags. But a safe Defender without airbags? That'll need to wait until at least 2011. And airbags don't "necessarily" save lives - that's a fine line. They reduce head and facial injuries. So perhaps it's like the shocking rollover "protection" of 1980's cars - not a lot of lives lost but a lot of people permanently disabled.

In Australia (where I live, at least) they don't perform so well in the equivalent comparison - http://www.mynrma.com.au/used_safety_ratings_4wd.asp.

Steve

[Greylandy]

It was always going to be a stop gap until the "new" Defender on the D3 chassiws was released. The only issue is the introduction of the new engine, gearbox and interior (good or bad) shows the intention of keeping the "new" Defender under wraps until 2009 or perhaps 2010.

The changes are not significant enough to warrant a change from my current 2004 Defender. If rumours are true and the "new" Defender in 2010 is based on the D3 chassis and TDV6 engine .. I will most certainly put in an order (depending on price) but the greylandy will be a keeper .. until I hand over the keys to my unborn son!! ;)

[one_iota]

.. until I hand over the keys to my unborn son!! ;)




Did I read that correctly :eek:

Are you to spawn?

[harro]

. until I hand over the keys to my unborn son!! ;)[/quote]



And may the tradition continue...............:twobeers:

[scrambler]

this:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

http://rovering.squarespace.com/journal/2005/10/14/land-rover-lcv23-lightweight-concept.html

or this:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

http://rovering.squarespace.com/journal/2005/10/24/rollo-dixons-land-rover-defender-concept.html

I like the seating on the LCV. To add insult to injury, it's even a genuine LR product.

Steve

[harro]

this:

http://www.thelandroverchronicle.com/new_pa3036.gif
http://www.thelandroverchronicle.com/new_pa3039.gif

http://rovering.squarespace.com/journal/2005/10/14/land-rover-lcv23-lightweight-concept.html

or this:

http://www.thelandroverchronicle.com/new_pa3052.gif

http://rovering.squarespace.com/journal/2005/10/24/rollo-dixons-land-rover-defender-concept.html

I like the seating on the LCV. To add insult to injury, it's even a genuine LR product.

Steve
There is something not right in that rollover on the front end:(

[JDNSW]

The curved glass removes one of the key attractions of the Defender - low insolation problem and the ability to replace broken glass easily and cheaply.
No thanks.
John

[uninformed]

new defender should have:

150mm wider track and body
50mm wider chassis width
100mm longer front doors
same bonnet and gards as now(no hump)
latest tech diesel about 3lt 5cyl
CLOSE ratio 6 speed man (6th is 1-1)
high pinion hypiod diffs, 4 pin, 9 inch ring gear
approx 4.1 r&p to protect props and to disipate engine torque.
35mm dia axles
101 size cv's
move front axle foward 25mm(radius arms 25mm longer/use same mount)
move rear axle rearward 50mm
o/a chassis lenght is same as now
move engine/gearbox/transfer case back 200mm
rear trailing arm at chassis to continue up and mount at body outrigger
bigger rear ball joint with the abilty to angle more
complete new wiring
very basic (like s11a dash but moden) and nice new dash options
keep front vents
set up for dual batterys one under both front seats
standardise nut and bolts all metric

COMPLETE NEW WIRING

cheers serg

[JDNSW]

new defender should have:

150mm wider track and body
50mm wider chassis width
100mm longer front doors
same bonnet and gards as now(no hump)
latest tech diesel about 3lt 5cyl
CLOSE ratio 6 speed man (6th is 1-1)
high pinion hypiod diffs, 4 pin, 9 inch ring gear
approx 4.1 r&p to protect props and to disipate engine torque.
35mm dia axles
101 size cv's
move front axle foward 25mm(radius arms 25mm longer/use same mount)
move rear axle rearward 50mm
o/a chassis lenght is same as now
move engine/gearbox/transfer case back 200mm
rear trailing arm at chassis to continue up and mount at body outrigger
bigger rear ball joint with the abilty to angle more
complete new wiring
very basic (like s11a dash but moden) and nice new dash options
keep front vents
set up for dual batterys one under both front seats
standardise nut and bolts all metric

COMPLETE NEW WIRING

cheers serg

Very specific, some of which I would agree with, some I don't ( for example, 150mm wider would cause problems with trees on a lot of the tracks I drive on regularly). Unfortunately, a lot of the changes you are looking for, such as the body dimension changes, would require major new tooling - and simply has zero chance of happening before a complete redesign, which is certain to use an existing platform, probably the D3, and have nothing except the name and perhaps styling in common with the Defender.

[rick130]

re the track width, I'm with John, maybe 50mm, 75mm max wider (to help turning circle, keep front radius arms/chassis as is)
I've often thought of having a spacer machined to fit between the axle tubes and swivels and get longer axles and steering arms made. Keeps scrub radius reasonable, unlike offset rims, and fix's (helps) turning circle. Also looks 'more' legal, just isn't. It's just $$$$$:D

Interesting that a mates older brother who used to be a RAEME used to tell us that on joint exercises in the top end, HUMMVEEs used to stake tyres all the time as the track was so wide one wheel/tyre ran where all the scree/crap was pushed aside by conventional vehicles.

[JDNSW]

re the track width, I'm with John, maybe 50mm, 75mm max wider (to help turning circle, keep front radius arms/chassis as is)
I've often thought of having a spacer machined to fit between the axle tubes and swivels and get longer axles and steering arms made. Keeps scrub radius reasonable, unlike offset rims, and fix's (helps) turning circle. Also looks 'more' legal, just isn't. It's just $$$$$:D

Interesting that a mates older brother who used to be a RAEME used to tell us that on joint exercises in the top end, HUMMVEEs used to stake tyres all the time as the track was so wide one wheel/tyre ran where all the scree/crap was pushed aside by conventional vehicles.

Yes, never thought of that idea - not sure whether you could improve the turning circle much compared to standard - how much more can you turn the CV joints?

I've heard about problems with HUMMVEES being unusable in many towns in Europe and the Middle East simply because they are too wide. The problems here are a lot of the tracks are only just wide enough between trees for the normal width cars/utes such as the Defender or Hilux. OK, add six inches in width, and you would still be able to get through in most cases, but where with existing vehicles you can drive at a reasonable speed, on a winding track with only an inch or two clearance, you would be driving a lot slower. OK if you live in the desert though.
John

[uninformed]

with regards to width.... compare what most hard core guys are running in positive offset compared to a stock LR rim...

would 75mm each side be such a negative thing... especially since you wouldn't have to run as much offset, good for wheel bearings and gives more clearance on the inside of the tyres against the front shock tower and rear spring perch at full compression.

plus it would be nice to fit inside the cab without having the window down. would give more room in the engine bay..

its what i want

cheers, serg

[JDNSW]

An extra couple of inches would not create any problems, but six inches changes it from a handy width that comfortably fits most tracks to one where you have to worry about width. Then of course there is the extra mass needed to retain the same strength with the added width and length - you are looking at something about the same width as the 6x6 Perentie. There are advantages to it, certainly, but you move into a different class of vehicle.

But the whole question is academic - as I said in my earlier post - given the need for retooling and testing the new body, chassis and running gear, there never was any chance that it would happen before the major redesign. Which may well end up wider (although I doubt 6"), possibly longer, but probably a lot roomier due to a much more sophisticated design that no longer has most of the special features of the Defender.
John

[Bigbjorn]

An extra couple of inches would not create any problems, but six inches changes it from a handy width that comfortably fits most tracks to one where you have to worry about width. Then of course there is the extra mass needed to retain the same strength with the added width and length - you are looking at something about the same width as the 6x6 Perentie. There are advantages to it, certainly, but you move into a different class of vehicle.

But the whole question is academic - as I said in my earlier post - given the need for retooling and testing the new body, chassis and running gear, there never was any chance that it would happen before the major redesign. Which may well end up wider (although I doubt 6"), possibly longer, but probably a lot roomier due to a much more sophisticated design that no longer has most of the special features of the Defender.
John

I'm with "Uninformed". Make the bloody thing big enough to fit in comfortably. More body width and length,more rearwards seat movement, a decent height adjustment on the seats (I modified my County to 2'' further back and 1 1/4" higher), lift the body2-3" off the rails to shrink the trans. hump. Add 6-8" to the wheelbase and "Uninformed's" 6" to the track. Shift the handbrake to a centre position or alongside the seat on the RH now we've got some room for it. Still won't be a big car, just about HZ Holden in length & wheelbase.

[JDNSW]

I'm with "Uninformed". Make the bloody thing big enough to fit in comfortably. More body width and length,more rearwards seat movement, a decent height adjustment on the seats (I modified my County to 2'' further back and 1 1/4" higher), lift the body2-3" off the rails to shrink the trans. hump. Add 6-8" to the wheelbase and "Uninformed's" 6" to the track. Shift the handbrake to a centre position or alongside the seat on the RH now we've got some room for it. Still won't be a big car, just about HZ Holden in length & wheelbase.

Maybe - but it is never going to happen before the major redesign. To widen the body would require a redesign of most body panels and all the chassis outriggers.

I must be smaller than some - I demodified my County to bring the seat height back to standard! I am a little below 6ft, but not much.

[Bigbjorn]

Maybe - but it is never going to happen before the major redesign. To widen the body would require a redesign of most body panels and all the chassis outriggers.

I must be smaller than some - I demodified my County to bring the seat height back to standard! I am a little below 6ft, but not much.

Remember how GM-H made the VL into the VN Commodore by splitting it down the middle and widening it. Good thinking by some cunning manufacturing engineers. Plus not a lot of money involved.

[RR5L]

Remember how GM-H made the VL into the VN Commodore by splitting it down the middle and widening it. Good thinking by some cunning manufacturing engineers. Plus not a lot of money involved.

Yes and it took two models after that to get it looking right.

[Bigbjorn]

Yes and it took two models after that to get it looking right.

Who gives a phuque about the looks. This is a Land Rover, a bush vehicle, not a pony club & GPS car. Flat sided, square, high & wide, like a Lockyer Valley farmer's daughter. And just as hard working.

[JDNSW]

Remember how GM-H made the VL into the VN Commodore by splitting it down the middle and widening it. Good thinking by some cunning manufacturing engineers. Plus not a lot of money involved.

Yes, or for that matter the "wide bodied" Camry. But in both cases we are talking about cars that are made in very large numbers compared to the Defender, and are of conventional construction - not separate chassis, bolt together, and only one or two body styles. It certainly could be done - this is basically what was done for the 6x6 Perentie, but this involved only one body being redesigned (plus the new ambulance body, which had to be done anyway) where doing this to the Defender would mean redesigning short, long, cab, wagon, double cab, soft top, some accessories, upsetting all the vehicle modifier and accessory companies who would have to redesign a lot of their bits. If there was a long future in the vehicle it might have happened, but as I said, in the current circumstances it was never going to happen. And if they had done so, it would have meant throwing away over twenty years of mostly compatible parts, which would have been a major change in philosophy for the Defender. This will happen, but only when the major change is made.

[uninformed]

i thought the title of this thread was" what did I want"

what i said is what i want, not what i think they might do!

JDNSW, i think you may be taking the width thing to strongly. arn't patrols and crusiers wider than defenders, and on top of that most have more offset than a landrover rim.

the beauty of making it 3 inches wider each side is you can still run a small offset wheel, which protects disc brakes and is better on bearings etc.

i'm 6-2", i consider this to be an average height these days. my mates 15 year old son is 6-3" and 93kg, take a look around people are getting bigger.

i think they could easily use alot of the exsisting panels

things like new roof,bonnet, rear door and bulkhead would be needed but i think they should keep the basic shape just wider

the overall lenght should stay as is but by moving the rear axle back this will be better for towing and load carying, allow the drivetrain to be moved back, for better weight balance, and still have an exceptable propshaft angle. moving the front axle forward allows for better approach angle and stops larger tyres rubbing on the bulkhead at compression

i wouldn't lift the body for the transmisson tunnel to be reduced. the low cog of defenders is what makes them stable off road.

imo they don't need to copy or try and follow or even keep up with toyota and nissan.... they need to lead them and take them in the direction the true functional working LR should have gone from 1989.

army, mining, forestry, construction, farming and may others would make up enough sales, prove there product, and sell their other makes eg disco, freelander etc

cheers, serg

[JDNSW]

i thought the title of this thread was" what did I want"

what i said is what i want, not what i think they might do!

JDNSW, i think you may be taking the width thing to strongly. arn't patrols and crusiers wider than defenders, and on top of that most have more offset than a landrover rim.

the beauty of making it 3 inches wider each side is you can still run a small offset wheel, which protects disc brakes and is better on bearings etc.

i'm 6-2", i consider this to be an average height these days. my mates 15 year old son is 6-3" and 93kg, take a look around people are getting bigger.

i think they could easily use alot of the exsisting panels

things like new roof,bonnet, rear door and bulkhead would be needed but i think they should keep the basic shape just wider

the overall lenght should stay as is but by moving the rear axle back this will be better for towing and load carying, allow the drivetrain to be moved back, for better weight balance, and still have an exceptable propshaft angle. moving the front axle forward allows for better approach angle and stops larger tyres rubbing on the bulkhead at compression

i wouldn't lift the body for the transmisson tunnel to be reduced. the low cog of defenders is what makes them stable off road.

imo they don't need to copy or try and follow or even keep up with toyota and nissan.... they need to lead them and take them in the direction the true functional working LR should have gone from 1989.

army, mining, forestry, construction, farming and may others would make up enough sales, prove there product, and sell their other makes eg disco, freelander etc

cheers, serg

I was just trying to point out what is realistic to expect. And I don't think I am over doing the width bit. Interestingly the proposed increase in width of 150mm is almost exactly the increase needed to bring it to the same bloated size as the Landcruiser 100. I don't see that wheel offset is at all related to overall width - it is merely the amount of fudging the designer had to do to fit the tyres the stylist wanted with the mechanical bits available. Ideally you would start from the tyre, set at the maximum track the body will accommodate, and make the axle long enough to have a vertical kingpin in the centre of the tyre. Few can manage this - there is too much to fit in (brakes, CV joint, wheel bearings, king pin), but what happens in reality is that after the mechanicals are designed, the stylist calls for wider tyres, and the offset has to be increased to allow them to fit.

You might think that 185cm is average, but a quick google search the nearest I could find for actual statistics is 77% of adult Australians between 150 and 170cm - and this was in the context of the fact that we are in fact getting taller . And like you I can think of a number of young people I know who are well over six feet. But I can also think of a number well under.

I am not sure about shifting the axles as you suggest - you are looking at an increase in wheelbase which means that for any steering setup the turning circle is increased, and I think most owners would prefer a tighter turning circle than the small changes in approach and departure angles and load carrying - and the number of people who actually need larger tyres is so small that this should not be a consideration. I'm not sure about moving the drive train back either - the position of the rear axle does not influence this, and if you move it back you lose more foot room in the front (and the back in the station wagon).

I agree that I would not raise the body - the low C of G of the 110 is one of its strongest points compared to the opposition.

I agree totally with your last two points, but I am afraid that Landrover are not really very interested in that market.

John

[one_iota]

You might think that 185cm is average, but a quick google search the nearest I could find for actual statistics is 77% of adult Australians between 150 and 170cm - and this was in the context of the fact that we are in fact getting taller . And like you I can think of a number of young people I know who are well over six feet. But I can also think of a number well under.



People have a false view of anthropometrics.

We all come in different shapes and sizes...if people of 185cm are measured you will find that leg lengths will differ. I have long legs and wont fit in a defender..others of my height can.

[Bigbjorn]

People have a false view of anthropometrics.

We all come in different shapes and sizes...if people of 185cm are measured you will find that leg lengths will differ. I have long legs and wont fit in a defender..others of my height can.

I am 6'1", xxxl shirts, 105kilos, size 12boots. I don't fit very well in most modern cars. I do want more leg & foot room. God knows how really big people get on. I used to play RL in the early 70's with a guy who was 19 stone fit, built like the proverbial brick dunny, and size 14 boots.Try putting him in a Defender. They do need to be wider and longer in the passenger area. I don't think raising the body a couple of inches will greatly affect stability. People are lifting the things on the suspension all the time anyhow. All the heavy stuff is down low between the rails or under them.

[tombraider]

Hehehehe....

I am 6'1", used to play RL and was 104kgs when I did...

Since destroying both knees and a shoulder I've gained a little weight :o

My 6'1" size 13, 148kg **** fits very comfortably into a defender :twisted:

Hopefully though, I'll get back to 6'1" size 13 and around 100kgs in the near future.

:wasntme:

Cheers
Tombraider

[BigJon]

My 6'1" size 13, 148kg **** fits very comfortably into a defender :twisted:

Hopefully though, I'll get back to 6'1" size 13 and around 100kgs in the near future.

:wasntme:

Cheers
Tombraider

Makes me feel better about 6'4" and 111kgs...:cool:

[one_iota]

The fit isn't measured in width. boot size or body mass .... it is measured in leg length.

The distance between the peddles the steering wheel and the back of the seat.

I am 185cm and only 75 kg I use the last click back on the Disco..I can't drive an 85 RR nor a Defender 110 and the 90 is impossible without an operation.

[harro]

The fit isn't measured in width. boot size or body mass .... it is measured in leg length.

The distance between the peddles the steering wheel and the back of the seat.

I am 185cm and only 75 kg I use the last click back on the Disco..I can't drive an 85 RR nor a Defender 110 and the 90 is impossible without an operation.

The funny thing is I get into the work vehicles 'Patrol and Hilux' and I readjust the seat like I'm sitting in my defender.
Guys at work think It's wierd but I actually prefer the bent knees, slightly cramped position.
I can't explain it I just feel more in control.

[one_iota]

The funny thing is I get into the work vehicles 'Patrol and Hilux' and I readjust the seat like I'm sitting in my defender.
Guys at work think It's wierd but I actually prefer the bent knees, slightly cramped position.
I can't explain it I just feel more in control.

That's fair enough...we get used to driving in certain positions..the Alfa was an ergonomic nightmare...but I hate the disco accelerator/brake peddle position...try a heel toe and you'll sprain your right ankle.:cool: :D