Third Party Workshop Manual

[Ferret]

I've got an L461 RRS. Being a newish model there is not a lot freely available info around but my understanding was I could get electrical and workshop info from TOPix after registering and paying a subscription. So I registered but after opening an account I get an email telling me my application won't be processed further unless I provide in PDF form

a) A police clearance.
b) Evidence of competency in safely de-powering, isolating etc. high voltage battery systems.

A police clearance... what on earth is going on. Just looks like BS designed to impede / restrict access to vehicle repair information to me. Anyway, I won't be going further down that path with JLR.

My question is, before coughing up $, has anybody used the services of this mob that supplies factory manuals or know anything of the quality (or not) of what they say they provide. Seems a little to good to be true.


The procedure for obtaining this manual, created for your car, is simple and perfectly legal. Using the right to repair, we pay a subscription to Jaguar Land Rover, enter your car's series number (VIN), and get the exact files that fit your car. This 2024 New Range Rover L461 service manual is built exactly for your car, with one engine and one transmission.

Factory Manuals - 2024 New Range Rover L461 repair manual (https://www.factory-manuals.com/shop/2024-new-range-rover-l461-repair-manual/)

[Graeme]

I became aware a couple of years ago of JLR's requirement for certification of appropriate training for electric vehicles when trying to obtain electrical wiring diagrams for the L460/L461 suspension/chassis system. The description of what your linked site does indicates that they can provide what JLR require and therefore are able to access the information. Assuming the price is USD, I would still be happy to pay the price if it included electrical diagrams as well as repair manuals as I find LR schematics and workshop manuals invaluable. The price is cheap compared with what my hard copy D2 manuals cost in 1999.

[Ferret]

... I would still be happy to pay the price if it included electrical diagrams as well as repair manuals as I find LR schematics and workshop manuals invaluable. The price is cheap compared with what my hard copy D2 manuals cost in 1999.

Curiosity got the better of me. I paid up, got an email from them saying after a 12-24h a down load link would be provided. After 5 days... crickets.

Contacted them to ask 'where is my download link' and got a response along the lines -Steve (whoever he is) is sick, in hospital, requires surgery... gives us another week. Yeah sure, I think, scammers but resolved to wait a week then contact my bank to do a charge back a/c non delivery of services.

Today I was given a link to download a ~23,000 page workshop manual for the L461. So it's seems they come through.

Whether this is exactly what you would get if you could be bothered to satisfy the requirements to get a subscription to TOPix, I have no idea.

[Graeme]

Good that is wasn't a scam and that you have at least something.

Below is typical of how the various sections start for the Defender so I expect similar for the L461.

PUBLISHED: 19-SEP-2019
2020.0 DEFENDER (LE), 204-05
VEHICLE DYNAMIC SUSPENSION
AIR SUSPENSION CONTROL MODULE (G2423921)

I would be sure to know if you just happened to send me the couple of pages of the suspension system wiring schematic for verification....

[Tins]

The "Files (new)" section could use a top up.... 23,000 pages might be a stretch though.

[Ferret]

Below is typical of how the various sections start for the Defender so I expect similar for the L461.

PUBLISHED: 19-SEP-2019
2020.0 DEFENDER (LE), 204-05
VEHICLE DYNAMIC SUSPENSION
AIR SUSPENSION CONTROL MODULE (G2423921)

I would be sure to know if you just happened to send me the couple of pages of the suspension system wiring schematic for verification....

Closest I can find to what you have quoted is below, it looks a very similar organisation. Can't find any specific wiring schematic included.


Published: 18-Feb-2022
2024.0 Range Rover Sport (L1), 204-05
Vehicle Dynamic Suspension
Chassis Control Module (G3141259)

[Graeme]

My estimation is that you have the genuine JLR documentation.

[disco gazza]

Hi Ferret,
Have you downloaded the "file" yet.
Is it as Graeme described as "JLR" documentation,as I am about to get the "ewoke" manual and was wondering whether its worth it.
There's a couple of other sites that have the manual but half the cost and am in two minds on which to go for.

cheers
DG

[Ferret]

Hi Ferret,
Have you downloaded the "file" yet.
Is it as Graeme described as "JLR" documentation,as I am about to get the "ewoke" manual and was wondering whether its worth it.
There's a couple of other sites that have the manual but half the cost and am in two minds on which to go for.

cheers
DG

Yes, I have downloaded the manual, all 23000 pages of it and yes it is definitely genuine JLR documentation. Is it the entire documentation you would see when viewing JLR documentation through TOPix, ie is it 100% complete?

There is some evidence it may not be. For instance, 'Section 205-00... Drive line System General Information' page 2458 makes reference to:


For a list of diagnostic trouble codes that could be set on this vehicle, please refer to Section 100-00. REFER to: Diagnostic Trouble Code Index - DTC: Rear Differential Control Module (RDCM) (100-00 General Information, Description and Operation).

I can find no reference to what is described above in Section 100-00 within the documentation supplied. In fact there is no list of DTC's and associated descriptions for any of the various systems described within the documentation supplied. There are no electrical schematics I can find either.

Would be interesting to see what you get with other "vendors".

[Graeme]

Maybe you should query the vendors about the electrical reference manual not being in what they provided.

[Ferret]

Yes, there will be an email to them, about that and the missing DTCs.

[disco gazza]

Thanks for the reply Ferret.
I'll await to see what response you get re: the missing DTC's and electrical schematics before I part with my hard earned pension $$$.

cheers
DG

[Ferret]

Well, for those thinking of exploring this route... all I can advise is don't bother.

[BradC]

That's a bugger. Can you elaborate on perhaps what the issues might be?

[Ferret]

That's a bugger. Can you elaborate on perhaps what the issues might be?

There are name and shame rules in force, at the risk of running foul of those rules these are the issues I had and their responses, paraphrased in some instances.

1) Duplicate Pages. Of the ~23,000 pages supplied, as best as I can determine all pages from page 13002 are duplicates of previous pages making the file excessively large, slow to load, navigate and search. Can the duplicate pages be removed please?

Their response... No idea if those pages are duplicates, we just download what we get from JLR.


2) Missing DTC descriptions. There are numerous references within the supplied documentation to refer to the 'Diagnostic Trouble Code Index'. For instance, one such reference.


For a list of diagnostic trouble codes that could be stored on this vehicle, please refer to Section 100-00. REFER to: Diagnostic Trouble Code Index - DTC: Chassis Control Module (CHCM) (100-00 General Information, Description and Operation).

Can the missing DTC index being referred to be supplied please, it's said to be in the manual in section 100-00?

Their response... We did not promise or describe the repair manual, as a diagnostic manual. We did not promise anywhere the DTC's.


3) Missing electrical schematics. Numerous references within the supplied documentation to refer to schematic wiring diagrams located within sections of the manual. For instance, one such reference.


Refer to Wiring Diagrams Section 418-00, for schematic and connector information.

Can the missing electrical schematic wiring diagrams be supplied please, They are said to be in the manual within various sections.

Their response... As above we did not describe or promise the wiring diagrams.


4) Missing Sections. Based on the numeric structure of the index pages there is evidence of many missing sections. Some sections may be missing for valid reasons, ie the section does not apply to my VIN but that can't explain it all, there is too much missing. Can you please review and supply the missing sections where applicable to my VIN.

For context, below is the initial part of the index structure for Section 1 of the manual. I doubt anything there is specific to a VIN number. What is shown in red is missing based on a logic reading of the section enumerations.

1: General, PDI and Accessory Information
100: Service Information
100-00: General Information Description and Operation
100-01: Identification Codes
100-02: Jacking and Lifting
100-03 ???
100-04 ???
100-05 ???
100-06 ???
100-07 ???
100-08 ???
100-09 ???
100-10 ???
100-11: Vehicle Transportation Aids and Vehicle Storage
100-12: Software Over The Air


Their response... Nothing is missing, is just the manufacturer's style. Ask JRL, why they are not respecting the number in chapters, and subchapters.

[Graeme]

It sounds as though the download wasn't monitored for interruptions and errors, just blindly kept going using a procedure/script that doesn't stop for errors. I've only ever downloaded sections at a time and sometimes the downloaded file has to be scrapped and the download run again for that section. It can be very time-consuming but necessary to get all the required sections.
The electrical reference manual and the electrical connector library used to be separate from the workshop manual involving extra subscriptions to retrieve them.

Hopefully you did get useful information. Perhaps you can print to pdf the various sections to make the manual more usable.

[disco gazza]

That's a bugger Ferret. Hopefully as Graeme said,you get somethinmg useful out of it.

DG