Calliper bolts, 12 point socket?

[Bohica]

Is there a special socket for these? I use what I think of as a 12 sided socket.

[p38arover]

I can’t remember if it’s a standard 12 point socket or a reverse Torx.

[AK83]

IIRC std 12 point socket 19mm???

it will be normal for a socket to be hard to get onto the bolt unless you've been absolutely thorough in cleaning the underside after some off roading.
A small amount of crud on the bolt head makes it difficult for a 12point to slide on easily. give them a wire brush and I think they will go on more easily, if this is the current issue.

[Bohica]

A standard 12 point is just a regular 'normal' socket? What I think of as 12 sided?

[Tins]

A standard 12 point is just a regular 'normal' socket? What I think of as 12 sided?

Yep. Just a standard, double hex, socket in this case, and generally. But, it wants to be a good quality one, as the bloody things will be tight, and/or loctited and a cheap socket will break.

[Bohica]

Yep. Just a standard, double hex, socket in this case, and generally. But, it wants to be a good quality one, as the bloody things will be tight, and/or loctited and a cheap socket will break.

Thanks, it's the terminology that gets me, double hex sound right. As for tight, the fronts are 180Nm!

[Blknight.aus]

they are a special 12 point bolt, the angles on the faces are made by 3 squares offset 30 degrees and not from 2 hexs off set. that said, a normal bi hex socket works fine but as mentioned, get a good set off the top of my head the torqing and retaining are 110nm, with spring washers, with loctite 263. break out torque is usually in the 400+nm range

[p38arover]

After seeing Dave’s post above, I did a little research and found it’s called a triple-square bolt. I’d never heard of it before.

See File:Screw Head - Triple Square.svg - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Screw_Head_-_Triple_Square.svg)

Thank you Dave.

EDIT:

192696

[Bohica]

Well, now I know, thanks guys for the info. The next question is, why use this type of bolt? They had spares left over from something?

[Blknight.aus]

Well, now I know, thanks guys for the info. The next question is, why use this type of bolt? They had spares left over from something?

its a grading thing.

automotive bolts are usually grade 3,5,7 for imperial or 6.6 8.8 10.9 and 12.8 for metric certain fasteners that must be of a certain standard can have a different bolt head for 2 reasons

1. to identify it. I know when I look at a caliper if it doenst have the 12 point or the allen key socket head then I might have the incorrect bolt in the hole
2. drive torque, Some of the torque specs for the bolt are high enough that a 6 point head wont give a good engagment and can cam out of the socket as you're leaning on it. They also accept a higher torque loading in general due to a higher number of points of contact and a lower distance from the engagement point to the root. (same concept as 10 spline vs 24 spline axles given the same metal)

a third reason can be to do with the initial machine aseembly, the 12 point bolts stay in the socket much better than the 6.

[admiralranga]

Surely they shouldn't have Loctite or a spring washers, workshop manual and parts book doesn't mention either (or mandatory replacement of the bolts with ones with it pre applied).

They are FT tho, completely forgot they were 12 pt helping on a friend's very rusty one and I'm surprised I didn't split the very cheap and nasty 12 pointer we could find.

Slightly annoyed if they are triple squares, I've just had a pair of 12 point impact sockets to suit arrive.

[Blknight.aus]

Surely they shouldn't have Loctite or a spring washers, workshop manual and parts book doesn't mention either (or mandatory replacement of the bolts with ones with it pre applied).

They are FT tho, completely forgot they were 12 pt helping on a friend's very rusty one and I'm surprised I didn't split the very cheap and nasty 12 pointer we could find.

Slightly annoyed if they are triple squares, I've just had a pair of 12 point impact sockets to suit arrive.

the stock 12 pointers will grab the tripple squares just fine.

[p38arover]

Looking at the ‘net, it seems that the triple-square is used by several manufacturers, not just LR.

[Tins]

Interesting. Wasn't aware of the difference, as a good quality double hex has always worked just fine, with no damage to the bolt head, OR the socket, and the socket has never "grabbed" the bolt head for me. Pain though, as all my 'Waukee sockets are single hex. I have lots of others, but they are in a different toolbox, which means walking....

[AK83]

Well, now I know, thanks guys for the info. The next question is, why use this type of bolt? They had spares left over from something?

They do grip a lot better, than hex shaped fixtures.

classic example of this is the difference between torx and allen heads. Allens almost always chew out when too much torque is required, compared to torx heads of the same size.

[p38arover]

I'd be happy to buy a triple-square to suit my L322. I need to find the size. There's not much worse than buggered bolt heads.

[Blknight.aus]

I'd be happy to buy a triple-square to suit my L322. I need to find the size. There's not much worse than buggered bolt heads.

They come in kits much like the kit for drain plugs.

If you have the metric bihex sized sockets that fit the size of the tri square is the same but is refered to as (I think) 14mm tri square vs 14mm Bi hex

heres a link to the style of socket that fit the tri squares

10 PC Female Triple Square Socket Set – FittingsGo (https://fittingsgo.com/product/10-pc-female-triple-square-socket-set/'srsltid=AfmBOorwe3x8WcEjRfgHmwxz4i62DcyRCDH_RhRlo 5A-PD4IWSbtUJfS)

[admiralranga]

the stock 12 pointers will grab the tripple squares just fine.

It's more that having ordered some special it would have been nice to get the exact ones. I didn't exactly want to go full bore with an impact using a cheap chrome socket (all of my nice ones being 6pt)

[p38arover]

They come in kits much like the kit for drain plugs.

If you have the metric bihex sized sockets that fit the size of the tri square is the same but is refered to as (I think) 14mm tri square vs 14mm Bi hex

heres a link to the style of socket that fit the tri squares

10 PC Female Triple Square Socket Set – FittingsGo (https://fittingsgo.com/product/10-pc-female-triple-square-socket-set/'srsltid=AfmBOorwe3x8WcEjRfgHmwxz4i62DcyRCDH_RhRlo 5A-PD4IWSbtUJfS)

Thanks Dave. I did a Google search but only came up with male triple-square, not female. The websites called the male kits "sockets".

[Blknight.aus]

It's more that having ordered some special it would have been nice to get the exact ones. I didn't exactly want to go full bore with an impact using a cheap chrome socket (all of my nice ones being 6pt)

I take them out with a snap on 12 point 3/8th drive.

The adivce I give to all appies applies, buy a middle of the range tool set from a middlerange supplier, Kingchrome is a good start point, then when you get to breaking one of the tools, buy the replacement part from a better supplier, the basic shapes the same so they fit in the boxes.

[Blknight.aus]

Thanks Dave. I did a Google search but only came up with male triple-square, not female. The websites called the male kits "sockets".

From what Ive been able to work out the sockets that were for the tri square are now called spline drive, they at least look similar but I dont have a spline drive socket to compare it to.

[admiralranga]

I take them out with a snap on 12 point 3/8th drive.

The adivce I give to all appies applies, buy a middle of the range tool set from a middlerange supplier, Kingchrome is a good start point, then when you get to breaking one of the tools, buy the replacement part from a better supplier, the basic shapes the same so they fit in the boxes.

I figure the koken impact sockets will be fine. My normal stuff is Kincrome lockons and Milwaukee impact sockets and they've been fine. The 12 pointers were garbage out of a Stanley kit that I regret buying

[d2dave]

I have never had an issue using a normal socket on these caliper bolts.

I too had no idea that they were not exact fit for standard double hex socket.

All my tools are either made in Australia Sidchrome, Stahlwillie and Knipex

[p38arover]

From what Ive been able to work out the sockets that were for the tri square are now called spline drive, they at least look similar but I dont have a spline drive socket to compare it to.

No, I don't think so. This is a spline drive socket:

192721

This is the triple-square:

192722

192723