harmonic balancer and timing

[marshprince]

Hey everyone,

I'm a bit unsure about the relationship between the balancer and timing..

So I used my rattle gun to remove the pulley bolt, there was no crankshaft movement. When I fitted the new pulley, I used torque wrench and this time nudged the crankshaft around, no more than 1/6th of a turn. At this point, the pulley should be holding the crankshaft gear in place so there shouldn't be an issue with timing right?

There just seems to be a lot mentioned about "tension" and the need to use the special tool for this job. Not sure how lack of tension can mean the crankshaft moves independently.

Do you guys think I should check timing to be safe? I'm also interested in how this works and if I'm on track or way off 😄

[TonyC]

What engine are we talking about?

Tony

[Tins]

The crank pulley should be fixed in place by a key, no matter which engine it is.

[V8Ian]

The crank pulley should be fixed in place by a key, no matter which engine it is.
And totally unrelated to timing, once set.
Bear in mind injection, spark and cam rely on timing of some description.

[marshprince]

What engine are we talking about?

Tony
Oh yeh 300tdi sorry!

[marshprince]

The crank pulley should be fixed in place by a key, no matter which engine it is.

This is what I thought.. so I find it odd that manual and others say to use special LR tool for locking the pulley while you undo/tighten bolt!

[TonyC]

This is what I thought.. so I find it odd that manual and others say to use special LR tool for locking the pulley while you undo/tighten bolt!

The harmonic balancer has nothing to do with timing on a 300Tdi, as others have said it's keyed to the crank, so it can only go on in one place.

The special tool is to stop the crank tuning when undoing or doing it up.

The bolt is torqued to a value then a further 90 degrees its very tight, so you need to hold it somehow.

I've had one that was loctited on, that need the crank held to get it undone.

Tony

[Tins]

Don't confuse the locking tool with the timing pin you insert to hold the flywheel. The forces used on the HB bolt will break it, or something else. It's only to hold the crank still while setting the pump and cam timing.

[Tins]

I've had one that was loctited on, that need the crank held to get it undone.

Tony

This particular bolt is what started me down the 'Waukee M18 Fuel rabbit hole in the first place. Nothing else I had would undo the bloody thing, but the 3/4 drive rattler made short work of it. Doing it back up? [bigwhistle]

[Tins]

The harmonic balancer has nothing to do with timing on a 300Tdi,

Tony

Not strictly true, it indicates TDC, at least enough to get the timing pin into the right indent on the flywheel. But yes, once that's set it is all down to the timing of the other sprockets.

[AK83]

This is what I thought.. so I find it odd that manual and others say to use special LR tool for locking the pulley while you undo/tighten bolt!

special tool (LR type) is a bar with a 'barrel' type fixture where it bolts up to the HB.
it's a rim shaped barrel tho, where you bolt the four outer rim bolts to the HB, and the centre void allows you to use a socket on the HB bolt to do/undo it.

IIRC the HB bolt, when doing it up, is 90Nm then 90° more to finalise it. And if you don't do it up enough, HB will come loose at some point.
This coming from experience.

Instead of just getting the tool, or making up a proper tool, I made a weak as peace flat steel angled bar. had a angle cut at the HB side to allow 2(of the 4) bolts onto the HB and the V shape allowed access to the HB bolt.
As I tightened it up for the 90° part of the final install, my weak welding snapped, and HB rotated. I thought I got close enough to the 90° setting, but about 2weeks later HB slowly spun off the crank.

After that debacle I bought a crank holding tool off ebay ... wasn't stupid expensive like some 'pattern' tools can be, I think just over $100 or so. nice and solid and hasn't broken the 3 times I've used it.
Nice to have when undoing, but not necessary, as there are many ways to undo the bolt, but (from my experience) requirement to do HB bolt properly without risking issues.

If you're good at welding and have access to materials, you can easily make up a holding tool yourself.

if you're looking to buy a tool, note that it supposedly fits some Jags too. That's how mine was advertised on ebay.

[marshprince]

special tool (LR type) is a bar with a 'barrel' type fixture where it bolts up to the HB.
it's a rim shaped barrel tho, where you bolt the four outer rim bolts to the HB, and the centre void allows you to use a socket on the HB bolt to do/undo it.

IIRC the HB bolt, when doing it up, is 90Nm then 90° more to finalise it. And if you don't do it up enough, HB will come loose at some point.
This coming from experience.

Instead of just getting the tool, or making up a proper tool, I made a weak as peace flat steel angled bar. had a angle cut at the HB side to allow 2(of the 4) bolts onto the HB and the V shape allowed access to the HB bolt.
As I tightened it up for the 90° part of the final install, my weak welding snapped, and HB rotated. I thought I got close enough to the 90° setting, but about 2weeks later HB slowly spun off the crank.

After that debacle I bought a crank holding tool off ebay ... wasn't stupid expensive like some 'pattern' tools can be, I think just over $100 or so. nice and solid and hasn't broken the 3 times I've used it.
Nice to have when undoing, but not necessary, as there are many ways to undo the bolt, but (from my experience) requirement to do HB bolt properly without risking issues.

If you're good at welding and have access to materials, you can easily make up a holding tool yourself.

if you're looking to buy a tool, note that it supposedly fits some Jags too. That's how mine was advertised on ebay.

I really appreciate the time youve taken to help me out here, very helpful thanks!!

[TonyC]

Not strictly true, it indicates TDC, at least enough to get the timing pin into the right indent on the flywheel. But yes, once that's set it is all down to the timing of the other sprockets.

OK, you made me go and look.

The timing cover does have what looks like a timing mark, a small arrow cast into the housing, but I can't find any mark on the harmonic balancer.

What should I be looking for?

Tony

[AK83]

OK, you made me go and look.

The timing cover does have what looks like a timing mark, a small arrow cast into the housing, but I can't find any mark on the harmonic balancer.

What should I be looking for?

Tony

a small scribed line across the edge of the balancer, will make sense where. It'll probably gunged up a bit, so you may have to feel for it with a finger nail, or if you clean the balancer it may be more obvious. mark it with paint or scribe or something.