Air suspension control

[POD]

I'm wondering what air suspension control valve people have found to be reliable?
I installed rear air suspension to my 130 about 2 years ago and it has become a standard requirement to pump up the suspension every time I want to drive it. Apart from the initial headaches due to the Queensland based suppliers of the kit not knowing what the GVM figure was of a vehicle they sell suspension for, this has been an ongoing hassle. I've replaced all the push-fittings with compression fittings to eliminate all the leaks at hose junctions, but the control valve leaks down internally and the vehicle settles evenly onto the rear bump stops overnight, have even had it settle onto the bump stops whilst out for the afternoon a few times. Apart from widely varying loads, one of the reasons for choosing air suspension was to be able to level the vehicle with our Trayon camper, it's totally useless for this as I'll get everything level and then the suspension sinks overnight.
If there's a dual-airbag control valve out there that people have found to be fit for purpose, I'm keen to hear.

[Graeme]

Have you thought of using a D3/D4 or any LR air suspenison front or rear valve block? They have a valve for each side and a cross-link valve which could be opened to raise or lower both sides together, then adjust the odd side using that side valve. They're very reliable if the air doesn't contained bits of dessicant. They operate on 12V.

[austastar]

Hi,
No control of anything on mine. Just the Schrader valves and it is fine for months.
I had a flat steel strap I hung on a tie down rail that touched the axle cover when the bags are 10 inches high (60 psi with the camper on)
I mainly inflate with an ARB compressor in a box, but have used a Rega Ded-Eezy hand pump (not so dead easy these days). Having seen a Milwaukee battery pump used to air up after a trip, I would like one of those.
Cheers

[POD]

Both good suggestions, thankyou. Perhaps ditching the control valving altogether would make for the most reliable solution, as suggested- I have a mounted compressor and tank, with air outlets on either side of the car and carry a hose long enough to reach all the tyres including trailer when necessary, I had thought about the hassle of getting out the long air hose all the time but I could carry a short length just for the purpose. Only having to do this with changes in load or when levelling the camper, rather than every time I use the vehicle, sounds like a great improvement.
I had a soft-dash RRC that I re-equipped with EAS after a previous owner had fitted coils; my memories are not exactly of a reliable, hassle-free system but perhaps that was improved on later vehicles?

[shack]

By the time the D2 came along, it was possible to go for multiple years without any air suspension dramas at all.

D3 and above are no different, it's likely many haven't touched the air suspension system for 100 000 km. (And more) In fact I'm not sure ours was touched until 250 000.

There was a company that was selling an automatic ride height controller that could be used on a defender with air bags, I just cannot think who it was now.

Realistically you shouldn't need to adjust a manual system much more than you adjust your tyres.

[prelude]

Contrary to popular belief the EAS in the P38 CAN be quite reliable for long spells of time as well. Most did not start to get issues until they were decades old.

I wonder, is your system equipped with an air dryer of some sort? I know that land rovers with air suspension all have an intricate system to dry the air and to keep the dry "dry" by first pumping air through the dryer into the tanks / system and when deflating, returning that dry air through the dryer to the outside. This also helps keep contaminants out.

Perhaps your system has picked up some most and dirt and is clogging up your valves.

Cheers,
-P

[MLD]

i have a similar issue with the front axle bellows from a QLD based air suspension supplier. I initially had a leak down on the passenger front over a few days. I replaced the hoses on that corner which seemed to sort it. Then i decided to extend the manual fill schrader valves to a more convenient location on both front bellows. Since then i've got leak down on both front bellows. The car is laid up because of a busted bearing in the gearbox so i haven't turned my mind to the problem. I'm hoping it is just a poor connection at one of the fittings. Leaking from the valve body also occured to me.

As for rear controller, i toyed with the idea of fitting truck trailer height controller over the A frame ball joint (bit like the old leveller on the county). Get a version with 2 outlet valves and slow response time. 2 outlets will, in theory, mitigate cross linking the 2 bellows because the cross link would only be possible when the valves are open (whether airing up or in exhaust). Being in the centre of the axle and a slow response model, it should only respond to a prolonged height change. Side to side body roll like in a round about should not affect it as it is in the centre of the fulcrum. The only negative, there is no management of air so a good air supply would be required. The Cummins boys in UK with engine mounted air compressors like them. I'd like to try it as an experiment.

[POD]

I haven't moved on this yet, been giving it some thought...obviously, simplifying the system to just a tube and valve on each spring would be most likely to eliminate problems, but it would make levelling the Trayon camper a right pain in the neck, compared to the wireless remote control- if only the thing would stay where it is set. I don't see the need for automating the system with height sensors, quite happy to still need to set it for a given load- again, if only it would stay set! I've got the camper on the car at the moment, perhaps I'll try levelling it with just the schraeder valve a few times on varying slopes and then decide if it's too cumbersome a process.

[shack]

I'd be finding the leaks for a start, you need to do that before any other changes, if any.

[POD]

As mentioned above, after chasing down every possible source of leaks at couplings etc it now leaks down through the control valve. Only way i can see of fixing that one is to get rid of it.

[POD]

I have simplified my airbag system, hopefully getting rid of the remote-control valve will enable it to hold height. I put an air outlet alongside the two schraeder valve fittings in a position where I can easily manage both springs.
193087193088

Found the receipt for this thing amongst my stock of air fittings. Sooo many better ways I could have spent $500. I might see if I can rig up a way to bench test it and confirm it is the source of the leak, but when both bags settle overnight at the same rate, it's almost a written confession.
193089

[W&KO]

Grr

[TonyC]

Can you put an isolating valve between the bags and controller?

Set it to were you want it and isolate it.

Tony

[POD]

Can you put an isolating valve between the bags and controller?

Set it to were you want it and isolate it.

Tony

Might be a workable idea. I've got a short camping trip planned soon with the Trayon, I'll see how much of a pain it is now to level the camper with the schraeder valves, might look at this possibility if I decide it's worth trying to go back to the remote control valve. So far the vehicle has remained level for 2 days since removing the valve block, best it's done for a good while.

[350RRC]

Might be a workable idea. I've got a short camping trip planned soon with the Trayon, I'll see how much of a pain it is now to level the camper with the schraeder valves, might look at this possibility if I decide it's worth trying to go back to the remote control valve. So far the vehicle has remained level for 2 days since removing the valve block, best it's done for a good while.

You might get some more ideas from here:

4 corner airbags ( spring replacement) - anyone running them? (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/268434-4-corner-airbags-spring-replacement-anyone-running-them.html)

DL

[W&KO]

What control valve are you using that is leaking?

We never had to add air in tie bags day to day, even after parking up for 2 months might have added 5-10psi

we had two Schrader valve for manual inflation (never used) and two paddle valve used nearly every other day for 2.5 years traveling Aus to level the car

we did have the two Schrader valves start leaking within a week of each other which was very strange…..it was the last place i thought to look after crawling all over the car testing all the other fittings.

Im guessing you have sprayed soapy water around every fitting? Just don’t assume new fitting are sealing. My Schrader had the slightest leak which lowered that bag to the bumpstop overnight.

[POD]

This is the control valve that I have just removed- there's another component (RF receiver) not shown in the images. I'm going to need a couple of fittings to bench test it and confirm that this is in fact the source of the leak, won't be able to do that until at least next week.
AC2260 - Dual Wireless Air Control Kit (No Compressor or Air Tank)
– Airbag Man Suspension (https://airbagman.com.au/products/ac2260)

Yes naturally I have used soap and water to painstakingly examine every fitting for air leaks and have corrected every leak so identified; no I have not assumed that a new fitting is air tight.

To repeat the question I asked in the first line of this thread, would you be prepared to identify the valve that you have found reliable? The convenience of having a remote controllled valve is great, if only the system would hold air.

[W&KO]

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is the control valve that I have just removed- there's another component (RF receiver) not shown in the images. I'm going to need a couple of fittings to bench test it and confirm that this is in fact the source of the leak, won't be able to do that until at least next week.
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– Airbag Man Suspension (https://airbagman.com.au/products/ac[emoji[emoji638)

Yes naturally I have used soap and water to painstakingly examine every fitting for air leaks and have corrected every leak so identified; no I have not assumed that a new fitting is air tight.

To repeat the question I asked in the first line of this thread, would you be prepared to identify the valve that you have found reliable? The convenience of having a remote controllled valve is great, if only the system would hold air.

Cools, I have no experience with that unit.

I used these, the old school pneumatic type, was temped to fit the electric version but didn’t bother.

Ranga on here fitted an eBay remote unit like yours and I believe hasn’t had any issues.

[POD]

Had a short camping trip in between the Easter and Anzac weekend crowds, the suspension now holds air but I really felt the absence of the electronic remote system when levelling the camper and again when re-adjusting upon packing up. I'm thinking I might try setting it up with a bank of four of the single-port valves that are used on diff locks, they have been reliable in operation on my diff-locks although I'm not sure if they are 100% leakproof. I could power them off the electronics that I already have installed from the other system.

1/4inch DC 12V 2 Way Normally Closed Electric Solenoid Air Valve : Amazon.com.au: Automotive (https://www.amazon.com.au/4inch-Normally-Closed-Electric-Solenoid/dp/B085NJ824B/ref=sr_1_1_sspa'dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.SjWCLsTmxmDCewnCz mrlMw1vCpH73vX-bmb8rtiOvf3Jb3cAbJgEdi13Cy7rzqylypq3ZzOLr5D0kLkqru IkNiX4oTz2N5TAepTj5CWsqYgPTtuhhGjgrDjiiD30BhhMqak1 nzzjs5kdkXhfCSTj0BVP36TaiLMYkh3udZJwvnURedx8nyMZDd B8Xr-XUNrCmHWQEbnxA5HMg40nNy1w2RbcJ9x-r5ozzUHTEgigLfYPxEt_od8FK-yfIKaL_Zxk5wu0l_OL9b7yTYIdxPPKM6i3SbSNdRAWplNtYWLi 7a4.yNLHh51ZVPOgQ5-SDve8Aqu1VJQvb_zvwsv4FiNajiI&dib_tag=se&keywords=12v%2Bsolenoid%2Bvalve&qid=1745626694&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1)

[shack]

Is it possible that the first valve you had that was leaking was simply faulty from new?

If not too pricey maybe worth another look?

Just my thoughts...

[POD]

Quite possible, I've bought a couple of fittings this morning so I can set hook up to my workshop compressor and leak test it. I wouldn't be purchasing the same again, the whole experience left a lot to be desired.
I've got a couple of diff-lock air solenoids, I think I'll also test them to see how well they hold air pressure on the downstream side. If I'm not fully satisfied with the result, I might look at something like a D3 valve block and control it via the electronics I already have insitu.
I'll report back with my test results when time permits.

[shack]

Thanks, I'll be interested to see how it goes.

A D2 valve block might also work.

[POD]

Well, here's an interesting thing; I have not been able to identify any leakage at all across any combination of ports on the valve block. This seems to set my diagnosis on it's ear. The other thing is that the vehicle has held it's height without any drooping since I removed the valve block and installed the extra schraeder valves.
I'm not sure what to think. The obvious conclusion is that I had leaks at fittings that I did not identify, but I was quite diligent with the soapy water and could not find any hint of leaks, hence my thought that the air was leaking through the valve and out the exhaust port. This is not the case, at least with the valve block out of the vehicle, and there's no logical reason to think it should leak in the vehicle and not on the bench.
I guess it wouldn't take much of a leak to deflate an air spring overnight, the volume is much smaller than a tyre. I'm going to re-install the valve block and re-evaluate. The convenience of the remote-controlled valve is great if the system will stay where it's set. I'll get it back together in the next few days and see what it does.

[POD]

Re-installed the valve block last week, mixed results so far. I did have one leaky fitting that I have replaced; with soapy water I could not find any other leaks but the car has done some settling, albeit less so than before. I'm going to give it a bit of time and decide whether to call it good.

[POD]

Well, the re-installation of the remote controlled air valve re-installed the sinking suspension woes. I may have had a breakthrough though; I have added a one-way air valve to the inlet side of the valve block, so that if it is leaking back through the valves this should arrest the leak. Thus far it has held it's height for 4 days, although yet to be tested with a load in the tray.
I do recall that the suspension valve in the '94 RR that I mucked about with years ago had 2 stages of sealing; there was a valve for each spring plus an inlet valve and an exhaust valve, so that air had to pass 2 valves in series to get to or from the spring. I think the valve that I have probably has parallel valves for in & out of each spring. Seems this extra stage of sealing might be helping.

[MLD]

Well, the re-installation of the remote controlled air valve re-installed the sinking suspension woes. I may have had a breakthrough though; I have added a one-way air valve to the inlet side of the valve block, so that if it is leaking back through the valves this should arrest the leak. Thus far it has held it's height for 4 days, although yet to be tested with a load in the tray.


when you say inlet side, do you mean the line from compressor to valve block body or outlet side of valve block that is inlet side of bellow? If the former and the compr is not designed to remain pressurised (otherwise too high a load for start up), that would suggest a leaking inlet valve of your valve block. If the later, and if your valve block also doubles as your exhaust port for the system, the one way valves will stuff that up. Either way, I feel your pain of tracing faults.

[POD]

I've added the one-way valve to the valve block at the port from the compressor. If this turns out to have fixed the problem (fingers crossed), it suggests that air was leaking back through the valve into the compressor side of the system.

[POD]

Update; it's been a month and it seems the addition of a non-return valve on the compressor feed port of the control valve has solved the problem, the vehicle has held height including with a load. Pity it wasn't made properly in the first place, it was a very expensive piece. Nice to have the problem solved though.