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Omaroo
1st September 2006, 08:23 AM
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/4wds-escape-green-slip-rise/2006/08/31/1156817034559.html


Safe as cars, 4WDs escape green slip rise

Tim Dick
September 1, 2006

FOUR-wheel-drives have won a surprise safety clearance from the State Government after an insurance survey found they caused fewer crashes than cars and were no more likely to cause severe injuries than other vehicles.
The Government has relied on the findings to rule out a higher green slip premium for 4WDs, contrary to a parliamentary committee recommendation two years ago.

They inflict less expensive damage in city crashes, according to the study by the NSW Motor Accidents Authority, to be released today.
The study reviewed nearly 50,000 claims made against the green slip scheme between 1999 and 2004. It found the proportion of accidents caused by 4WDs was lower in Sydney than their share of the vehicle fleet, and the average cost of subsequent claims was less.

In the rest of NSW, 4WDs caused slightly more expensive claims, which cover medical and compensation costs.

There was little difference between the severity of injuries caused by 4WDs and those caused by other cars.

Sales of 4WDs grew by 61 per cent between 2000 and 2003. They now account for more than one in 10 passenger cars in NSW.

The Minister for Commerce, John Della Bosca, said the findings meant there was no justification for imposing a special premium on 4WDs, though that might change. While the authority recommended no immediate change in premiums, it said the study should be repeated to see if an expanding second-hand market in 4WDs altered the figures.

A spokesman for Mr Della Bosca said the Government would look at a special premium if future statistical evidence showed other drivers were subsidising those in 4WDs.

Insurers may only vary the cost of green slips according to criteria set by the Government, such as the age of the driver and the car being insured.
In 2004, an upper house committee recommended the Government look at allowing insurers to increase premiums for 4WDs, after Bicycle NSW proposed higher premiums for more "dangerous" cars.

Stuart Newstead, senior research fellow at Monash University's Accident Research Centre, yesterday cautioned against interpreting the study's results as a safety tick for 4WDs.

Their drivers were more likely to be older men, he said, and the recent sharp increase in sales meant 4WDs were, on average, newer than other cars. Newer cars and older drivers tend to be safer, significantly altering the effect on claims.

Dr Newstead also cautioned that the study looked only at two-vehicle crashes, excluding accidents such as roll-overs. 4WDs typically have a higher centre of gravity and are more susceptible to rolling over than other cars. The centre's studies have consistently shown large 4WDs are better at protecting their drivers than other road users when they crash.
"They are twice as likely to cause death or serious injury to people in other cars," Dr Newstead said.

But he said smaller, newer models, such as the Toyota RAV4 or Honda CRV, had improved the safety and reputation of 4WDs.

Jack Haley, the NRMA's vehicle policy specialist, said if owners wanted safe cars and did not need to go off-road, large cars were as safe as 4WDs, and cost much less to operate.

dobbo
1st September 2006, 08:26 AM
I think the doof doof brigade have increased the crash total for 2wd's
Good to see the statistics used for good instead of evil for once

JDNSW
1st September 2006, 09:12 AM
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/4wds-escape-green-slip-rise/2006/08/31/1156817034559.html

Yes, I heard this on the news this morning. I have long maintained that the driver has more to do with it than the vehicle, and the driver's choice of vehicle is probably more important than the vehicle itself.
John

Frenchie
1st September 2006, 09:18 AM
Let's all email that to scrubby! :twisted:

JDNSW
1st September 2006, 12:00 PM
Let's all email that to scrubby! :twisted:

I wouldn't bother - his news collecting service will have done it already. Emailing it to your local state member might be more to the point - after all, they make the laws, not Scruby.
John

Captain_Rightfoot
1st September 2006, 12:15 PM
I wouldn't bother - his news collecting service will have done it already. Emailing it to your local state member might be more to the point - after all, they make the laws, not Scruby.
John

He's not going to be at all happy about this.

Look for some manufactured statistics next week. :o

Bigbjorn
1st September 2006, 12:15 PM
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/4wds-escape-green-slip-rise/2006/08/31/1156817034559.html

I frequently have a look at damaged vehicle auctions. I note the bulk of 4WD's offered are of the private school-pony club-ballet lessons type, you know the ones, metallic paint & velour seats and never been off the bitumen. They most commonly have suffered a classic right turn rollover, rear right pivoting over the left front, which I believe is from going too bloody quick around corners or roundabouts and the driver, recently graduated from a normal car, having no idea of the handling characteristics or capabilities of their new St. ------'s taxi, thinks they are still punting their Honda, Beemer, Benz.

JDNSW
1st September 2006, 12:25 PM
I frequently have a look at damaged vehicle auctions. I note the bulk of 4WD's offered are of the private school-pony club-ballet lessons type, you know the ones, metallic paint & velour seats and never been off the bitumen. They most commonly have suffered a classic right turn rollover, rear right pivoting over the left front, which I believe is from going too bloody quick around corners or roundabouts and the driver, recently graduated from a normal car, having no idea of the handling characteristics or capabilities of their new St. ------'s taxi, thinks they are still punting their Honda, Beemer, Benz.

Your post raises the question of how you divide cars into groups - for example, classifying cars by the number of driving wheels is not really very sensible - it puts as an example, a Terios and a double cab 130 and an RR Sport into the same category, where they are clearly completely different vehicles - the first would be better grouped with two wheel drive small cheap cars, the second with other working vehicles whether two or four wheel drive, and the third with other luxury cars. Perhaps within each of these groups there may be a reason for subdividing the category into two and four wheel drive, but surely this is not the most important category.
As another example, the most common type of vehicle in a single car fatal accident in the country is a utility driven by an under-25. Nothing to do with the number of driving wheels, but the body style and the age of the driver seem to be significant. Actually the one near here yesterday was a light truck, not a utility, but close enough.
John

p38arover
1st September 2006, 01:43 PM
I heard Scruby on radio this morning complaining the results are not in line with overseas figures and that the results probably lump AWD vehicles with 4WD.

Ron

JDNSW
1st September 2006, 01:58 PM
I heard Scruby on radio this morning complaining the results are not in line with overseas figures and that the results probably lump AWD vehicles with 4WD.

Ron

I don't see any reason why figures should agree with overseas ones - the fleet mix here is different to anywhere else, and as I previously said, it depends more on the driver's choice than the actual vehicle.

Can someone explain the difference between AWD and 4WD? As far as I am aware there is no agreed difference. AWD is used as a synonym for "full time four wheel drive" or to include 6x6 as well as 4x4, but I am not aware of any consistent usage. Probably first popularised by Subaru to emphasise that they drove all wheels all the time, but maybe Rover used it first with the Rangerover. Anyone know?

As I said in the earlier post, grouping (for road safety purposes), for example, a Ford Territory (2wd or 4wd) with a Freelander probably makes more sense than grouping either with a Suzuki Sierra, or for that matter a 130 traytop. And neither grouping has much to do with how many wheels drive.
John

Bigbjorn
1st September 2006, 02:02 PM
Your post raises the question of how you divide cars into groups - for example, classifying cars by the number of driving wheels is not really very sensible - it puts as an example, a Terios and a double cab 130 and an RR Sport into the same category, where they are clearly completely different vehicles - the first would be better grouped with two wheel drive small cheap cars, the second with other working vehicles whether two or four wheel drive, and the third with other luxury cars. Perhaps within each of these groups there may be a reason for subdividing the category into two and four wheel drive, but surely this is not the most important category.
As another example, the most common type of vehicle in a single car fatal accident in the country is a utility driven by an under-25. Nothing to do with the number of driving wheels, but the body style and the age of the driver seem to be significant. Actually the one near here yesterday was a light truck, not a utility, but close enough.
John

Interestingly, years ago in Qld., the cheapest category for Compulsory Third Party insurance was Private use utilities. Then some genius found a way to up the take without "increasing premiums". Private utes got put into the samecategory as private cars, so now we pay more but the premiums were not "increased'. Perhaps the U25's in utes accidents have more to do with Bundaberg Rum and 300 horse power than any other reason?

Ace
1st September 2006, 02:48 PM
And how long did it take them to work that out and how much of tax payers money did they spend on it. Matt

JDNSW
1st September 2006, 03:08 PM
Interestingly, years ago in Qld., the cheapest category for Compulsory Third Party insurance was Private use utilities. Then some genius found a way to up the take without "increasing premiums". Private utes got put into the samecategory as private cars, so now we pay more but the premiums were not "increased'. Perhaps the U25's in utes accidents have more to do with Bundaberg Rum and 300 horse power than any other reason?

Could be. The preferred drive for country under 25s seems to be utes - preferably a new Falcon with a five post bullbar, but any sort of ute seems to do at a pinch. Not sure why.
But perhaps the more significant thing is that for rural males under 25 the most common cause of death is suicide, followed by road accidents - and it is an open question how many of the single vehicle (or "crossed to wrong side head on with a B-double") road accidents were actually suicide. In fact, I was told on Sunday by a member of NSW police that Australia wide the number of deaths by suicide passed the number of road fatalities in 1991, and the gap has been increasing ever since as road fatalities per head have decreased and suicides have increased.
John

Yabbie
1st September 2006, 10:50 PM
3 cheers for 4wd's.......


Stick that in ya Pipe and smoke it SCRUBY!!!!!!

Yabbie
1st September 2006, 10:51 PM
Let's all email that to scrubby! :twisted:

Can we email him a virus instead:twisted:

rick130
2nd September 2006, 07:07 AM
I frequently have a look at damaged vehicle auctions. I note the bulk of 4WD's offered are of the private school-pony club-ballet lessons type, you know the ones, metallic paint & velour seats and never been off the bitumen. They most commonly have suffered a classic right turn rollover, rear right pivoting over the left front, which I believe is from going too bloody quick around corners or roundabouts and the driver, recently graduated from a normal car, having no idea of the handling characteristics or capabilities of their new St. ------'s taxi, thinks they are still punting their Honda, Beemer, Benz.

oi ! my SO resembles that remark as her Patrol is never used off road (anymore), it is mainly used for towing her dressage horse and she is currently visiting her sister at Balmoral and driving around the 'North Shore'.......in her filthy, dirty GU ute :p