Oils

[landoman]

Planning to change my oils ……gear box transfer case and diffs
…specs mostly GL4 and GL5 which I can get from Penrite

the gearbox oil specified as Castrol BOT 130M …or equivalent….
This seems to be very hard to find so Penrite have a gearbox oil they recommend for defenders

anyone used the Penrite gearbox oil and does it do the job safely ?…..don’t want to make an expensive mistake so thoughts much appreciated

[2012Ninety]

I haven’t used the Penrite oil, but have been using Motul Gear 300 75-90 for the last 150,000km (change every 40k) without issue. Gear changes are nice and smooth… for a Defender.

[Patrick110td5]

Mechanic told me penrite transgear was the best fit for r380 and lt230 in Aus
75w-80 for r380
75w-90 for lt230

[TonyC]

Mechanic told me penrite transgear was the best fit for r380 and lt230 in Aus
75w-80 for r380
75w-90 for lt230

From the Castrol BOT 130 reference I assume the OP has a Puma with a 6 speed MT82 gearbox.

Tony

[roverrescue]

Its been two weeks so you've probably bought the Penrite but for what it is worth.

After much procrastination, for my MT82 I settled on Castrol Syntrans 75-85 its a full synth GL4 spec oil
Have now ticked over 7 years and into the third change of oil. No shifting issues seems to be doing the job.

[landoman]

Mechanic told me penrite transgear was the best fit for r380 and lt230 in Aus
75w-80 for r380
75w-90 for lt230

What does r380 and it230 mean

I have a defender 110 puma 2.2 2016

the handbook specs call for a GL4 Or. a GL5 in the transfer …..and the Castro BOT 130 m in the gearbox ……..

I’m leaning to the Penrite 75W90 GL4 for the gearbox
and 75W90 GL 5/6 for the transfer case

did see on one video that should use GL4 rather than GL 5 in the transfer box which seems contrary to the hand book specs So I’m a bit confused

[TonyC]

What does r380 and it230 mean

I have a defender 110 puma 2.2 2016

the handbook specs call for a GL4 Or. a GL5 in the transfer …..and the Castro BOT 130 m in the gearbox ……..

I’m leaning to the Penrite 75W90 GL4 for the gearbox
and 75W90 GL 5/6 for the transfer case

did see on one video that should use GL4 rather than GL 5 in the transfer box which seems contrary to the hand book specs So I’m a bit confused

The R380 is the 5 speed manual gearbox used in Defenders from mid 90s to 2006??, and Disco 1 and 2
The LT230 is the transfer case used with all the 5 and 6 speed gearboxes in the Defender and all Disco 1 and 2s.

Your Defender 110 Puma 2.2 has a MT82 gearbox and a LT230 transfer case.

Tony

[landoman]

***

[landoman]

The R380 is the 5 speed manual gearbox used in Defenders from mid 90s to 2006??, and Disco 1 and 2
The LT230 is the transfer case used with all the 5 and 6 speed gearboxes in the Defender and all Disco 1 and 2s.

Your Defender 110 Puma 2.2 has a MT82 gearbox and a LT230 transfer case.

Tony
Thanks for that ………helps a lot …….im being a bit pedantic on this oil issue but I’m learning as I go

Once I sort out my confusion over the use of GL5 in the transfer case I’ll be sorted

[DieselDan]

I'm using the penrite oils in my puma.
The ProGear GL4 75-90 in the gearbox and the ProGear 75-90 in the trans case.

The name of the latter doesn't include it's GL rating but it is GL5.

For the MT82 gearbox, the requirement is the Ford WSD-M2C200-2 spec, which the ProGear GL4 meets.

The service schedule shows gearbox oil change every 200,000km, but I've been doing 80k to align with the diff/t'case oils. Might go down to 40k intervals for box and diffs as it gets older!

[landoman]

I'm using the penrite oils in my puma.
The ProGear GL4 75-90 in the gearbox and the ProGear 75-90 in the trans case.

The name of the latter doesn't include it's GL rating but it is GL5.

For the MT82 gearbox, the requirement is the Ford WSD-M2C200-2 spec, which the ProGear GL4 meets.

The service schedule shows gearbox oil change every 200,000km, but I've been doing 80k to align with the diff/t'case oils. Might go down to 40k intervals for box and diffs as it gets older!

many thanks. Clear concise and to the point

[DazzaTD5]

As per what others have said re Progear.
although I use 80w90 gear oil in the transfer cases, i fit a atb to all the transfer cases I build and also its a blue colour so a leak can be pin pointed to gearbox or transfer case.

as per land rovers ridiculous service interval of 200k, more likely to change out the gearbox and transfer case at that km's with no change before.
i do 12months or 20K, oil is cheap boxes arent.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I have bought some of this stuff. It seemed to be highly recommended although haven't put it in yet. Meets standard MTF-94 Fluid für Land Rover,

Previously was running on a hybrid of three oils. The shift 1-2 was pretty average.

RAVENOL MTF-2 SAE 75W-80 - Ravenol (https://www.ravenol.com.au/product.php?code=1221103)

[jwb]

As per what others have said re Progear.
although I use 80w90 gear oil in the transfer cases, i fit a atb to all the transfer cases I build and also its a blue colour so a leak can be pin pointed to gearbox or transfer case.

as per land rovers ridiculous service interval of 200k, more likely to change out the gearbox and transfer case at that km's with no change before.
i do 12months or 20K, oil is cheap boxes arent.

So the Penrite Gear Oil 80w90 mineral suits both the transfer case and the diffs so one less product to keep?

[DazzaTD5]

So the Penrite Gear Oil 80w90 mineral suits both the transfer case and the diffs so one less product to keep?

yes a gear oil 80w90 is fine in the transfer case and diffs.
if you arent running such items as Ashcroft ATBs you could run the penrite pro gear gl4 75w90 in gearbox, transfer case, diffs. but it is rather expensive compared to others.

to further that, you could run pro gear 75w90 (gl5) in everything, you will find if you go into the chemistry of modern gl5 additives that they no longer suffer corroding of yellow/white metals.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

yes a gear oil 80w90 is fine in the transfer case and diffs.
if you arent running such items as Ashcroft ATBs you could run the penrite pro gear gl4 75w90 in gearbox, transfer case, diffs. but it is rather expensive compared to others.

to further that, you could run pro gear 75w90 (gl5) in everything, you will find if you go into the chemistry of modern gl5 additives that they no longer suffer corroding of yellow/white metals.
I have an ATB and as you say, they say ep 80/90 gear oil only.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Ok I have finally put the Ravenol in the car. So I just nearly punched the dash going for first. It's changing gears significantly better. Like really delicately. It's expensive but it's the best the gearbox has changed in a long time. Not perfect but big improvement.

My whine is still there.. might be a little quieter. Might be something else.

It is classified as MTF-94. Reasons not to run it is it's expensive and only available direct from them.

RAVENOL MTF-2 SAE 75W-80 - Ravenol (https://www.ravenol.com.au/product.php?code=1221103)

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I do wonder whether the Penrite MT-94 might do the same job much cheaper.

[shack]

I do wonder whether the Penrite MT-94 might do the same job much cheaper.I've just changed my R380 oil and put Penrite trans gear 75w80 semi synth in.

It says it meets mtf94 specs on the label so I'll see how it goes. I think it's changing better when warm than the old oil did already.

Only done about 30km.

It's unlikely that the whine is caused by the oil, (well it might be if damage has occurred over the last xxkm!) But a whine in a gearbox is usually worn bearings, which could have been caused by the wrong oil or long service intervals or old age... Either way an oil change won't fix it unfortunately.

I'd monitor it very closely as they are MUCH cheaper to fix if you do it before a bearing collapses.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I've just changed my R380 oil and put Penrite trans gear 75w80 semi synth in.

It says it meets mtf94 specs on the label so I'll see how it goes. I think it's changing better when warm than the old oil did already.

Only done about 30km.

It's unlikely that the whine is caused by the oil, (well it might be if damage has occurred over the last xxkm!) But a whine in a gearbox is usually worn bearings, which could have been caused by the wrong oil or long service intervals or old age... Either way an oil change won't fix it unfortunately.

I'd monitor it very closely as they are MUCH cheaper to fix if you do it before a bearing collapses.
Just to be clear, my whine is not bad. The mechanic said my box is better than most. :o

[shack]

Just to be clear, my whine is not bad. The mechanic said my box is better than most. :oIs it one of those whines that you can hear and nobody else can?!

I often hear things no one else can... hopefully it's ok.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Is it one of those whines that you can hear and nobody else can?!

I often hear things no one else can... hopefully it's ok.
I think pretty much.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

So went for a drive today. Got into the whine speed. (around 80 +-). Put it in forth. Still whining. Put it in neutral.. still whining. I think 5th is ok. (facepalm).

Must be something else. The centre diff was recently replaced with an ashcroft ATB and nothing changed.

But let me say the gearbox is changing delightfully!

[landoman]

So making progress …..changed my diff oils and all good …..

now want to do the gearbox and transfer …

my transfer has a small persistent leak ……not yet decided if I want to do the expense of fixing it or just monitoring it to see if it gets worse ……then fixing it

so question …….

is it worth doing the gearbox oil change if a little later I decide to get the transfer box dropped to fix the leak ………..ie will dropping the transfer box mean that the gearbox oil will also need to be replaced …….so would I be wasting my time …and oil ……or are they pretty much self contained pools of oil

sorry….. but I’m a very novice mechanic ………...and loving it …..

[TonyC]

Removing the transfer case to work in it, doesn't need the gearbox oil to be drained.

If their due for an oil change then change it, neither hold much oil.

Tony

[DazzaTD5]

as already mentioned, dont put off changing fluids on the gearbox or transfer case.

Yearly or every 20K is what i recommend customers do, oil is cheap rebuilds are not.

[landoman]

To day I changed my gearbox oil ……was quite surprised that it drained out 2.8 lire’s of oil
….some mechanic at some time must have not done his homework ………refilled it up with recommended refill level of 2,2 litres …….manual says full level should contain 2.4 litres


then tried the transfer case but the location of the fill plug has me stumped …its in behind ..the handbrake drum ? I have the right size sump socket ( 13 mm. ) and I can just get that in to the fill nut but can’t get the holding wrench in there ………I’ve tried every thing in my tool box including an offset extension but no go …….the brake drum just stops any straight alignment to get some thing on to the sump sochet …don’t want to damage the nut so need some tool that lets me in there ……..there must be a trick to getting at it ……..
the drain sump is easy ….. but the fill nut is in a very bad place …..any suggestions welcome

[123rover50]

To day I changed my gearbox oil ……was quite surprised that it drained out 2.8 lire’s of oil
….some mechanic at some time must have not done his homework ………refilled it up with recommended refill level of 2,2 litres …….manual says full level should contain 2.4 litres


then tried the transfer case but the location of the fill plug has me stumped …its in behind ..the handbrake drum ? I have the right size sump socket ( 13 mm. ) and I can just get that in to the fill nut but can’t get the holding wrench in there ………I’ve tried every thing in my tool box including an offset extension but no go …….the brake drum just stops any straight alignment to get some thing on to the sump sochet …don’t want to damage the nut so need some tool that lets me in there ……..there must be a trick to getting at it ……..
the drain sump is easy ….. but the fill nut is in a very bad place …..any suggestions welcome

I use the male square end of an old extension bar the spring ball has fallen from. Just get the angle grinder and grind a groove in the 4 corners back from the end a bit. It makes a knob that acts like a uni joint so can be used at an angle. Works a treat.

[TonyC]

To day I changed my gearbox oil ……was quite surprised that it drained out 2.8 lire’s of oil
….some mechanic at some time must have not done his homework ………refilled it up with recommended refill level of 2,2 litres …….manual says full level should contain 2.4 litres


then tried the transfer case but the location of the fill plug has me stumped …its in behind ..the handbrake drum ? I have the right size sump socket ( 13 mm. ) and I can just get that in to the fill nut but can’t get the holding wrench in there ………I’ve tried every thing in my tool box including an offset extension but no go …….the brake drum just stops any straight alignment to get some thing on to the sump sochet …don’t want to damage the nut so need some tool that lets me in there ……..there must be a trick to getting at it ……..
the drain sump is easy ….. but the fill nut is in a very bad place …..any suggestions welcome

My 95 Defender has a 1/2 inch female full plug.
A 1/2 inch socket extension fits in it, as mentioned by 123rover59 a ball end one would be better.

Tony

[DazzaTD5]

You may think to ask, hrmm what does a professional use...

in Snapon, Koken, Kinchrome
warning: may not work if you use cheap **** tools
[tonguewink]

[landoman]

Thanks chaps ……..as usually works I slept on the problem ……then hit it with a six inch 1/2” wobble bar with a Flexable extension that fitted it to my half inch socket wrench ….similar to above suggestions. Worked well. I was worried about putting the 1/2 “ bar in the nut lest I damaged it …..but it seems pretty deep so it was ok

thanks again for your help

now all I have to do is grease my drive shafts and check out my ball joints and I’ll be good for a few more km

[landoman]

Well what I thought would be the easiest job has proved otherwise

bought a grease gun with Flexable hose and can get good access to the drive shaft nipples ….but all I’m getting when I pump is a big pile of grease around the nipple ..nothing appears to be going in

tried adjusting the connector to lock on the nipple but then get grease flowing out of the top of the connector ………

is the problem that my nipples are blocked or the connector ( pretty standard would have thought ) is not the right size for defender nipples ?

Found a fitting called “ lock and lube “ that offers a solution ……..but a tad expensive ………so if there is another solution or approach I’ll be grateful …….

[shack]

Well what I thought would be the easiest job has proved otherwise

bought a grease gun with Flexable hose and can get good access to the drive shaft nipples ….but all I’m getting when I pump is a big pile of grease around the nipple ..nothing appears to be going in

tried adjusting the connector to lock on the nipple but then get grease flowing out of the top of the connector ………

is the problem that my nipples are blocked or the connector ( pretty standard would have thought ) is not the right size for defender nipples ?

Found a fitting called “ lock and lube “ that offers a solution ……..but a tad expensive ………so if there is another solution or approach I’ll be grateful …….

I found this photo in AULRO from MLD, but this is what I always use for all Cardan grease nipples.194674

If you are having trouble getting grease into the slip joints, then it's possible the nipples are blocked or damaged externally.

[DazzaTD5]

you can go to a tool shop and get the lock type that you can fit to a std grease gun.
I have one on my cordless grease gun and it works a treat.

[landoman]

I found this photo in AULRO from MLD, but this is what I always use for all Cardan grease nipples.194674

If you are having trouble getting grease into the slip joints, then it's possible the nipples are blocked or damaged externally.

looks like blocked nipple might be the issue …..I got my gun well,locked on to a nipple this avo but gun wouldn’t pump the grease …….do I change the nipples or is there a way to unblock them

[DazzaTD5]

its a ball with a spring behind it, you can get like a tiny screwdriver and give the centre a little push in to see if its free, they can get blocked.
failing that yes replace

or... most of them have a hex drive, so a small 1/4 drive socket of the correct size, remove it, clean it out, put it on the grease gun and see if anything flows through it

[landoman]

its a ball with a spring behind it, you can get like a tiny screwdriver and give the centre a little push in to see if its free, they can get blocked.
failing that yes replace

or... most of them have a hex drive, so a small 1/4 drive socket of the correct size, remove it, clean it out, put it on the grease gun and see if anything flows through it


Thanks Dazza …….great advice …….

.give them a prod with a micro screwdriver and bought one of those attachments you suggested from super cheap auto ……worked a treat

did Jack up and free one wheel as suggested in other posts allowing the free turning of the drive shafts which helped access


Did note that while the 4 UV joints on the 2 drive shafts had nipples to grease, the
shafts themselves had NO NIPPLES ………..(it’s a 2016 puma ) ……….this has been mentioned in other posts ……

don’t know what this means as videos I’ve watched show greasing nipples on the shafts as well
…….. are my shafts greasless for life ??……………any comments welcome

Thanks again …..very helpful …..

[landoman]

Anyone have thoughts on my nippleless drive shafts ………….

[shack]

Anyone have thoughts on my nippleless drive shafts ………….Have you checked for a little plastic bung in a hole? I have seen that before.

Other than that.. You could try drill and tap, or dismantle and grease then manually.

[landoman]

need to top up power steering fluid……….manual says Texaco cold climate 33270 …seems hard to find …..


my supercheap site says Pentrite 50717 is a fit ………am I good to go with this ……..

before I pour it in ……

Ta ……

[discorevy]

need to top up power steering fluid……….manual says Texaco cold climate 33270 …seems hard to find …..


my supercheap site says Pentrite 50717 is a fit ………am I good to go with this ……..

before I pour it in ……

Ta ……

Yes, you're good to go with that.

[HardCharger]

as already mentioned, dont put off changing fluids on the gearbox or transfer case.

Yearly or every 20K is what i recommend customers do, oil is cheap rebuilds are not.

Hi Dazza,

What is your take on additives added to gear oil that will supposedly coat the gears and reduce friction or wear? Snake oil?

[Captain_Rightfoot]

So can I just say I've been running the ravenol mtf2 in the gearbox now for 5000k or so. I haven't tried any other oils that are MTF2 but this one certainly gives shifting a noticeable boost.

Maybe the new penrite MTF2 which is much cheaper will do the same, but untried. If it does it's a lot cheaper. :o

[DazzaTD5]

Hi Dazza,

What is your take on additives added to gear oil that will supposedly coat the gears and reduce friction or wear? Snake oil?

if my opinion matters... i consider most to be snake oil of some description, i have the same opinion on "fancy" branded oils that claim to do this or that.

with the exception of AW10 and some of the products Cost Effect Maintenance sell

[HardCharger]

if my opinion matters... i consider most to be snake oil of some description, i have the same opinion on "fancy" branded oils that claim to do this or that.

with the exception of AW10 and some of the products Cost Effect Maintenance sell

Figured as much. Thanks.

Sent you a PM by the way. If you're not into that kind of stuff, is there a way for me to get a hold of you to discuss off forum inquiries?