What is the worst car you have worked on?

[prelude]

I do apologize for the fans of the vehicle I am about to be unkind to :D

In any case, I recently had the "honour" of working on a VW T4, a very early specimen with the AAB diesel engine (that's the 2.4 naturally aspirated version). My word, what a disaster of a car to work on... All sorts of bolts mixed and matched, and seemingly not because of previous repairs, weird hex and star bolts, the list goes on.

Trying to replace the clutch, the gear box needs to come off but the transfer case sits behind the subframe. In essence I had to completely remove the engine (as in release all engine mounts and hang it in a hoist) AND remove both drive axles, which meant undoing the ball joints etc etc.

I -bleep- near had to disassemble the whole -bleeping- car JUST to get to the clutch. Now I have quite some experience with cars and a lot of japanese ones at that which are usually tightly packed which hinders access, but even they are easier to replace a clutch on or whatever.

So, I was wondering, what is the worst car you have had to work on :)

Cheers,
-P

[Saitch]

My BIL's late '80s, early '90s Alpha. Everything you touched, broke! Even things that weren't touched, broke! [smilebigeye]

My Mum's '69 Mini deserves a mention, too.

[mrs]

Suzuki Grand Vitara 2.7l V6 manual

[V8Ian]

So many, I'm still trying to decide.

[Saitch]

So many, I'm still trying to decide.

Should heavier vehicles be included? [biggrin]

Also, I reckon JerryD is a candidate for comment here.

[loanrangie]

Before i did the head gasket on my wifes X-trail i watched a youtube video for pointers, came away thinking it would be a nightmare.
Once i got into it i was surprised that it wasn't as difficult as the video made it out to be, cant say ive worked on something and went away thinking never again although fitting the LH exhaust camshaft on my TDV6 with pulleys and seals fitted was a real PITA - my wrists still haven't recovered.

[Red90]

Pajero. The most insanely overly complex design the world has ever seen for no apparent reason.

[Tins]

That's easy. LARC.

[Homestar]

I do apologize for the fans of the vehicle I am about to be unkind to :D

In any case, I recently had the "honour" of working on a VW T4, a very early specimen with the AAB diesel engine (that's the 2.4 naturally aspirated version). My word, what a disaster of a car to work on... All sorts of bolts mixed and matched, and seemingly not because of previous repairs, weird hex and star bolts, the list goes on.

Trying to replace the clutch, the gear box needs to come off but the transfer case sits behind the subframe. In essence I had to completely remove the engine (as in release all engine mounts and hang it in a hoist) AND remove both drive axles, which meant undoing the ball joints etc etc.

I -bleep- near had to disassemble the whole -bleeping- car JUST to get to the clutch. Now I have quite some experience with cars and a lot of japanese ones at that which are usually tightly packed which hinders access, but even they are easier to replace a clutch on or whatever.

So, I was wondering, what is the worst car you have had to work on :)

Cheers,
-P

'Holden' Vectra - exactly the same thing. Whole subframe out to do the clutch and hang the engine off an engine crane to take the gearbox out to do this - took me friggin days.... Having said that I just did a sump gasket on my 1976 XJ6 Jag - same deal - over 20 hours end to end - hang the engine from the top and pull the entire underneath of the car off. Jag wasn't anywhere near as bad as the Vectra though as there was actually room to get at everything that needed to come off.

[Tins]

Electrically, any of the FIAT 124 Sports Coupés I have owned.
IIa FFR clutch in the mud…. I miss those days. Not.

[p38arover]

Replacing the PCV system and hoses on the L322 with the BMW M62 V8 petrol engine. They are at the back of the engine between the firewall and the engine.

It's a nightmare getting the Torx bolts out without stripping the bolt head inside Torx socket. I replaced them with hex-head bolts. One lays over the engine trying to get one's hands in and to do stuff, e.g., getting hose clips back on.

I'm not looking forward to replacing the cam cover gaskets nor the timing chain guides.

To be honest, I've thought of pulling the engine out to address the oil leaks. If the front axles didn't pass through the sump, I probably would.

[Tins]

If the front axles didn't pass through the sump, I probably would.

I can see that presenting some issues.

[Tins]

Bleeding front brakes on the IIa that had the twin wheel cylinders with the nipple at the very bottom. My suggestion to turn the things upside down was not well received.

[POD]

Mazda Bongo van was probably the worst ever, engine wedged in a tiny space under the rear load floor, the designers must have thought they would run forever without maintenance. I saw one mechanic almost reduced to tears changing the brake master cylinder on one.
As Colin has mentioned Jaguar though, mine deserves an honourable mention- a coolant hose under the supercharger split and the blower had to come off to access it. There's this bolt that holds the blower on....apparently on the LHD models the bolt can be accessed by breaking your forearm in two places and hooking it in through the cabin air filter. No such luck on the RHD model- engine had to come out to get to that bolt. 5 days work to change a hose.

[RANDLOVER]

I knew a mechanic that served his apprenticeship at Porsche and promptly changed to BMW when he qualified saying that they were too difficult to work on.

[gromit]

Replacing the alternator on a Mitsubishi Delica. You really need to lift the body off the engine.

I had to grind down a socket and patch a few skinned knuckles.
Did the job and cured a misfire, the drive by wire was picking up interference from a failing alternator and causing the diesel to 'misfire' !


Replacing a spill pipe O-ring on a Ford Territory diesel, that was fun also .....


Colin

[ozscott]

Suzuki Grand Vitara 2.7l V6 manual

What aspects in particular? Cheers

[mrs]

Obviously designed for a 4 and they dropped a V6 in so everything is hard to get to, eg you have to be underneath to install the oil filter but you have to bring it in via the top, the clutch hydraulics are hard to get to, the clutch pedal is an afterthought just to name a few

[jerryd]

Should heavier vehicles be included? [biggrin]

Also, I reckon JerryD is a candidate for comment here.

Without doubt my MG TC has to be in the top three contenders [bigsad] Driving with gusto I managed to break the crankshaft [bawl][bawl]

I was hoping at first it might have been a problem at the clutch / flywheel end, but after removing the gearbox one could see the movement in the flywheel. So next task was to remove the engine and have a look inside [bighmmm]
Fears confirmed, a clean break although it looks like it may have been cracked for many years. Luckily a replacement was found and overhauled at a reputable engineering company [smilebigeye] and the engine is now back together waiting to be reinstalled.

But I must say it's the most difficult car I have ever worked on,

[JDNSW]

I was not actually working on it, but I watched the field mechanic at it - 1956 Ford F800 truck. It was a LHD import and had a large OHV V8. With the spark plugs under the exhaust manifold. Not only did this make the HT wiring harness very prone to getting wet, where it went through the narrow gap between the inner mudguard and the manifold it tended to get the insulation melted, especially offroad and with not much airflow.

The chassis blocked access to the spark plugs from underneath, and while it was possible to reach them from above, it was a long way down and it was impossible to see them without a mirror. Our mechanic solved the issue - with an oxy torch. Four (relatively) neat holes along each inside mudguard opposite each plug, big enough to get a plug spanner in or your hand to put the lead on. Of course, this made it even more susceptible to stopping when driving in the wet (the company was new to Australia, and trying to continue field operations through the wet in the area south of Charters Towers!).

It was surprisingly durable though. It could not be moved when we moved camp at the end of March, and when retrieved six weeks later, the water marks showed it had been submerged up to the top of the windscreen. Drain the petrol tank, change all the oils etc, and it was still operating six months later when we moved the crew back to Brisbane.

[ozscott]

Obviously designed for a 4 and they dropped a V6 in so everything is hard to get to, eg you have to be underneath to install the oil filter but you have to bring it in via the top, the clutch hydraulics are hard to get to, the clutch pedal is an afterthought just to name a few

I see thanks. One of my lads has the last of the 2.5 V6 (fantastic strong motor - had a following as a motor in some light planes home kit style) but his is the auto. He had the top spec model and it really does feel quite a lot like a small Range Rover to drive. It has the usual Suzuki oil leaks (even more like a Range Rover) and chews the juice compared to more modern motors but its a gem. It is running around Cape York regularly as he lives in a remote community up there. Good set of AT's and a 40mm lift and combined with all wheel drive it's a good country car. Cheers

[ozscott]

Pajero. The most insanely overly complex design the world has ever seen for no apparent reason.

Which model (so long running)? They are such a reliable and capable vehicle but I suppose owning them and having to work on them are not necessarily the same experience 😀👍

[mrs]

I see thanks. One of my lads has the last of the 2.5 V6 (fantastic strong motor - had a following as a motor in some light planes home kit style) but his is the auto. He had the top spec model and it really does feel quite a lot like a small Range Rover to drive. It has the usual Suzuki oil leaks (even more like a Range Rover) and chews the juice compared to more modern motors but its a gem. It is running around Cape York regularly as he lives in a remote community up there. Good set of AT's and a 40mm lift and combined with all wheel drive it's a good country car. CheersOurs was the XL-7, which was the 2.7, was more a car motor than a 4wd, needed revs, no low down torque, and did love to drink

[Red90]

Lol. It has not been reliable. Multiple large failures in the first $100k

Don’t drink the Kool-Aid.

[Tins]

Jensen Interceptor. I had to change the plugs on one that I serviced back in the 70s. You can't even see the things. I put it on the hoist to drain the oil. Here's a tip, if you own one. Do the plugs on the hoist. They're a snap from underneath.

[Slunnie]

My D2 is the most pain in the ass car I've worked on. You seem to have to pull everything apart to change any part under the bonnet. It's certainly not like old school cars that I'm used to. Mind you, it's also not like you have to pull the body off to do anything either, so it's probably also not the worst out there to work on either.

[ozscott]

Lol. It has not been reliable. Multiple large failures in the first $100k

Don’t drink the Kool-Aid.

Mmm....I tend not to. Have at least 6 mates with a variety of with NM, NT, NS etc over the years and i have driven a variety of them. Without a doubt they have been great vehicles and very reliable. Mitsubishi 4wds [apart from the 2.5 diesel in the MN Triton and Challenger - Mitsubishi regularly replace these free of charge even in 10 year old very high mileage vehicle (including for a mate of mine)] are very reliable with very solid drivetrains (including 9 inch diffs and large solid axles and CV's, driveshafts etc).

Cheers
Ps. Still don't know what Pajero you are referring to, unless you say the lot are too complex etc.

[ozscott]

Ours was the XL-7, which was the 2.7, was more a car motor than a 4wd, needed revs, no low down torque, and did love to drink

Gotcha. Yeah even the 2.5 is all about the revs and it does that smoothly. Cheers

[wooferocau]

My J-Spec 300ZX Twin Turbo.... There is just no room whatsoever in the engine bay... ( still a beautiful car though!!)

[DoubleChevron]

'Holden' Vectra - exactly the same thing. Whole subframe out to do the clutch and hang the engine off an engine crane to take the gearbox out to do this - took me friggin days.... Having said that I just did a sump gasket on my 1976 XJ6 Jag - same deal - over 20 hours end to end - hang the engine from the top and pull the entire underneath of the car off. Jag wasn't anywhere near as bad as the Vectra though as there was actually room to get at everything that needed to come off.

This is all pretty normal for any FWD car. I just had to do the clutch in my wifes poogoe rcz (the thrust bearing died). You have to drop the subframe and gearbox out of the bottom. certainly it wouldn't be fun today without a decently equipped shed in your backyard.


193468

Modern cars are full of torx bolts, requriement long reach spanners, wobble bar selections etc.... so you will be expanding you tool kit to work on them [bighmmm]

seeya
Shane L.

[Tins]

This is all pretty normal for any FWD car.



Really. I dig into my memory and struggle to recall if it was the N10 Pulsar or the Charade (Dealership sold both ) where the clutch was a one hour job. You could remove the input shaft and take the clutch out from the top without splitting the engine gearbox. Of course, it helped that the box was below the engine. Why didn't Issigonis think of that?? Minis are a pig to do a clutch on.

Which reminds me. Minis. Don't think I've lost more skin than I did doing the water pump on my old Cooper S. Still, the car was worth it. What a hoot it was. Another one I wish I'd kept.

Doing the starter motor on a FIAT 124 Sport was fun too. Especially often......

[DoubleChevron]

Really. I dig into my memory and struggle to recall if it was the N10 Pulsar or the Charade (Dealership sold both ) where the clutch was a one hour job. You could remove the input shaft and take the clutch out from the top without splitting the engine gearbox. Of course, it helped that the box was below the engine. Why didn't Issigonis think of that?? Minis are a pig to do a clutch on.

Which reminds me. Minis. Don't think I've lost more skin than I did doing the water pump on my old Cooper S. Still, the car was worth it. What a hoot it was. Another one I wish I'd kept.

Doing the starter motor on a FIAT 124 Sport was fun too. Especially often......


What about cars made this century :) They are so tightly packaged, the factory generally pre-assembled everything as units and dropped the body down on top. They are designed for ease of assembly by robots. Servicing them down the track is irrelevant.

We have all seen the pictures of range rovers with the body lifted off to do normal service things like changing rocker cover gaskets etc.

There is a reason why the newest car I've ever owned is a 1992 Range Rover classic, and its not just because I'ma tight arse [bigrolf] [bigrolf] Where I'm sitting now, I can see into the shed, there is a 1950 Traction Avant, 1963 ID19, 1985 CX2500, 1992 Range Rover, 2005 citroen c2 (daughters car), 2007 poogoe 407 (wifes old car ... now youngest daugthers), 2011 Poogoe RCZ. Anything made this century has one thing in common. A manual gearbox and simple to service, reliable NA petrol or diesel engine.

At 270,000kms the poogoe 407 is starting to throw DPF faults, so I'm about to learn how to either clean or gut one of those things. I don't think gutting them is the answer as there probably needs to be a pressure drop across it (you can see pressure sensors each side of it).

seeya
Shane L.

[350RRC]

.............. Minis are a pig to do a clutch on.

......

As are Mokes obviously. A woman I lived with had a moke and the clutch ended up with a 'deficiency' of friction material.

No one professional would even look at it. Eventually she found someone in Geelong to do it, cost about $3600 in the early 90's.

DL

[prelude]

All those french cars, especially citroen. Did they not used to have special tools and special bolts at some point in time?

In any case, wonderful stories to read :) Makes me feel at least a tad bit better about that blimming VW van. I concluded a few things now that I nearly have that thing put back together:



always good to help a mate, but not these kinds of jobs anymore
Helping with small things like brakes etc. no problem
helping as in standing around giving pointers like the old geezer I am, sure!
I like doing full rebuilds better (since everything is out/off anyway


Cheers,
-P

[Discodicky]

As are Mokes obviously. A woman I lived with had a moke and the clutch ended up with a 'deficiency' of friction material.

No one professional would even look at it. Eventually she found someone in Geelong to do it, cost about $3600 in the early 90's.

DL

That price is absolutely disgraceful.
Can do a clutch on any 60's/70's mini in around 3 hrs and that's taking it easy.
Slightly more if someone has fitted an after market brake booster, or a heater, or in the case of a Cooper "S" which has a booster fitted as std.

Replacing the water pump by pass hose is easily the worst job on an early Mini.
Goes between the cyl head and water pump; not a pleasant job unless you go to the trouble of removing pump in which case it's about an hour or so's job.
Apart from that they are a doddle to work on.

[V8Ian]

Currently my D2, the ground's too low and the bonnet's too high.[bigsad]

[DoubleChevron]

All those french cars, especially citroen. Did they not used to have special tools and special bolts at some point in time?

In any case, wonderful stories to read :) Makes me feel at least a tad bit better about that blimming VW van. I concluded a few things now that I nearly have that thing put back together:



always good to help a mate, but not these kinds of jobs anymore
Helping with small things like brakes etc. no problem
helping as in standing around giving pointers like the old geezer I am, sure!
I like doing full rebuilds better (since everything is out/off anyway


Cheers,
-P

The pre 1950's Citroen Traction Avant has a million and one special tools, you won't even get the front brake drums off without a puller (the driveshaft pull down tightly onto a taper). But the 60's -> 90s .... probably considered complex in there time are simplicity ... anyone can work on them, any mechanic really (though most are scared of them) the hydraulic suspension is simple once you understand the basics :)

[JDNSW]

I never found any issues with working on my DSpeciale nor its predecessor ID. Not that they needed much done on them. The main issue was finding parts (pre-internet).

Tapered and keyed axle-hub connections were commonplace on cars well into the fifties. Ones that come into mind (if my memory is correct) include Ford T, VW beetle, and incorporating the hub with the brake drum was commonplace.

I remember the puller used for the Ford T comprised a special nut that you screw on in place of the hub nut - and whack with a two pound hammer!

[Tins]

What about cars made this century :)

seeya
Shane L.

OK, fair enough... Like the Light Fifteen[bigrolf]

But indeed, that is why we have FWD cars at all. Cheaper and easier down the production line, and of no interest to the manufacturer once the warranty runs out.

[econti]

That price is absolutely disgraceful.
Can do a clutch on any 60's/70's mini in around 3 hrs and that's taking it easy.
Slightly more if someone has fitted an after market brake booster, or a heater, or in the case of a Cooper "S" which has a booster fitted as std.

Replacing the water pump by pass hose is easily the worst job on an early Mini.
Goes between the cyl head and water pump; not a pleasant job unless you go to the trouble of removing pump in which case it's about an hour or so's job.
Apart from that they are a doddle to work on.

Engine out of a Moke takes me about 45min, they're very easy once you've done it a few times (we have 3).
Only had one bypass hose fail. I delete them entirely, not really needed in aus. Probably quicker to do it by pulling the head off which is also very quick

[laney]

Lada Niva just look at a part and it broke even new parts broke before fitting timing chain would jump teeth or snap for no reason lifted the top of pistons just for laughs.

[V8Ian]

Lada Niva just look at a part and it broke even new parts broke before fitting timing chain would jump teeth or snap for no reason lifted the top of pistons just for laughs.
The poor little cars cop a pizzling though.
193599 193600

[JDNSW]

My son had one for a while - only sold it because they had a new baby and hard to put a newborn in a capsule in a two door car. Generally relatively trouble free, I did practically no work on it because I did not need to. Performed well here, despite being abused - I remember him turning up here on one occasion with the headlights half full of water after testing the wading capability on the way in when it was pretty wet.

[V8Ian]

My son had one for a while - only sold it because they had a new baby and hard to put a newborn in a capsule in a two door car. Generally relatively trouble free, I did practically no work on it because I did not need to. Performed well here, despite being abused - I remember him turning up here on one occasion with the headlights half full of water after testing the wading capability on the way in when it was pretty wet.
That must be a Lada thing, I must owe Jerry an apology. [biggrin]
They did have a tendency to drop the front diff, housing and all, if jumped, regularly.

[BradC]

Back just out of high school one of my mates Dads was the accountant for "Lada Australia". He said they used to import them, basically strip them down to the last nut and bolt and put them back together again with everything properly tightened and replacing anything broken. That fixed most of the major issues although bits still fell off from time to time.

I asked how that could possibly be profitable and he just said they negotiated their buy price from Lada such that it was.

One of my mates (different one) from school had one for years. He reckoned you just needed to keep a sharp eye and ear for the bits that fell off so you could loop around and pick them up. The wiper arms seemed to be particularly problematic.

<sigh> They just don't make them like they used to.

[Fattima]

193690
Back just out of high school one of my mates Dads was the accountant for "Lada Australia". He said they used to import them, basically strip them down to the last nut and bolt and put them back together again with everything properly tightened and replacing anything broken. That fixed most of the major issues although bits still fell off from time to time.

One of my mates was worked for Lada and did just that, he also worked on their rally team and still owns one of the cars.
He reckons the early ones were good because they were thoroughly gone over before sale. To increase profits later ones were not inspected anywhere near as much and quality suffered.

[jerryd]

That must be a Lada thing, I must owe Jerry an apology. [biggrin]
They did have a tendency to drop the front diff, housing and all, if jumped, regularly.

You'll keep [tonguewink]

Nothing wrong with a Lada [biggrin]

[Tins]

My Dad traded his Holden Drover on a Niva. That was when Peter Brock's mob were doing PD. The tappets all came loose after about 100 k. I fixed those and the thing never missed a beat. The old goat hit a tree with the thing, would have written off my Disco. Because it was so new they fixed it. Strong little bugger. Worst part was the FIAT pedals. I was of course used to them, but Dad missed the brake pedal on the dirt road near home and ergo Lada meet tree. Dad liked it though, and talked Mum into trading her Subaru wagon on a Samara. She kept that for about ten days. Awful POS. The bloody door fell off, only held on by the check strap. Couldn't turn the wipers off unless you disconnected the batt.

What do call a Lada with twin exhausts?
A wheelbarrow.

When Dad died Mum sold the Niva for more than they paid new. Some bloke came to Yarra Glenn from Mt Gambier for it. Couldn't believe it, car was pristine and had ALL the stuff it came with. Probably still got it.

[V8Ian]

Didn't the Niva have a heated rear window, to keep your hands warm when pushing it home? [bigwhistle]

[Homestar]

This is all pretty normal for any FWD car. I just had to do the clutch in my wifes poogoe rcz (the thrust bearing died). You have to drop the subframe and gearbox out of the bottom. certainly it wouldn't be fun today without a decently equipped shed in your backyard.


193468

Modern cars are full of torx bolts, requriement long reach spanners, wobble bar selections etc.... so you will be expanding you tool kit to work on them [bighmmm]

seeya
Shane L.

Not on similar vintage Toyotas or Nissans at least - have done clutches in multiples of those plenty of times and the box comes out easily with the engine left where it belongs. Must be a European idea and it sucks. Just glad I don't have to work on others cars any more - I can live with dicking around on my own but even that's getting old (along with me) [biggrin]

[RANDLOVER]

Didn't the Niva have a heated rear window, to keep your hands warm when pushing it home? [bigwhistle]

Yes, very important in Russia where it comes from.

[DoubleChevron]

Not on similar vintage Toyotas or Nissans at least - have done clutches in multiples of those plenty of times and the box comes out easily with the engine left where it belongs. Must be a European idea and it sucks. Just glad I don't have to work on others cars any more - I can live with dicking around on my own but even that's getting old (along with me) [biggrin]

Are the cars you are working on from this century :) ... I'm pretty sure you will find anything built in the last 20years really does suck to work on :(

seeya
Shane L.

[prelude]

Are the cars you are working on from this century :) ... I'm pretty sure you will find anything built in the last 20years really does suck to work on :(

seeya
Shane L.

Funny that :) I thought that cars from THIS century were/are less and less CARS and more like appliances (EV's are truly an appliance, like an ipad is not a computer IMHO)

So, technically, yes I have, but no I have not worked on CARS from this century [biggrin]

-P