Little boring boxes with wheels

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

I spent the day in Brisbane yesterday. Timing wise the specialist appointment was the quickest part of the whole day - including each leg of the travel. I wound up doing a lot of walking around to kill time. Walking along streets like Anne Street. I, possibly like most people on this site, am a motor vehicle watcher. Keeping an eye out for the interesting. I did not see any thing of note. No classic cars with gorgeous body and paint work. Not even a beat up survivor that someone - possibly not in their right mind - has spent a lot of time and effort to keep their cherished car on the road. All I saw was just a whole lot of homogeneous vehicles driving on the roads. Boring as bat poo! Then I recall driving from Bundaberg to Brisbane on other occasions and a similar thing happening. Nothing but the same boring little boxes that all seem to copy each other in appearance European influenced, or whatever the current 'influence' is at the time - biscuit-cutter cars. My strolls took me past some "prestige" car show rooms too. A quick glance at the vehicles = "Meh!" and I averted my eyes and kept on walking.

I find this lack of interesting cars on the road just a tad sad. What is that song? Little boxes, little boxes, full of ticky tacky .... I just found the song on YouTubeOkay - sorry Peter Seeger - I will add a new verse ...

"and they all drive little boxes
and they all look just the same!"

Accessed 9th of August 2025 from

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUwUp-D_VV0

Kind regards
Lionel

[JDNSW]

Most car styling either originates from a few design offices in the major companies (and they mostly copy each other), or, in the case of smaller competitors, are designed to not look too different. Simply because experience has told the bean counters that if it looks too different, nobody will buy it! As some of the new companies gain market share and hence gain ore confidence, it is just possible that we may see a few more "different" designs. Perhaps worth pointing out that probably because of the smaller market here, it seems in my experience that some overseas countries show more variety, for example in my US trip last year.

[Saitch]

Over our time together, I was always advising my wife to take note of what vehicles were in her vicinity, when driving, as a 'Just in Case' rule.

I have to admit it is now pretty difficult to differentiate between makes, let alone models. Especially twin-cab 'tillys.

[Tins]

sorry Peter Seeger - l

I think you mean Malvina Reynolds, although the Seeger cover was better known.

And yes, I think it could apply to almost any mainstream car for the last 20 years. I used to pride myself in my ability to recognise any car from a glimpse...... Now they are all blancmanges.

[Tins]

Simply because experience has told the bean counters that if it looks too different, nobody will buy it!
Ford's Ka springs to mind.

[Lionelgee]

I think you mean Malvina Reynolds, although the Seeger cover was better known.

And yes, I think it could apply to almost any mainstream car for the last 20 years. I used to pride myself in my ability to recognise any car from a glimpse...... Now they are all blancmanges.

G'day Tins,

Pardon my ignorance. In fact it does hit close to home. My mum's maiden name was Reynolds!

Hit the research button ... found on ... accessed 8th August 2025 from, YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUoXtddNPAM ... make that Dr. Malvina Reynolds PhD. Then after meeting Peter Seeger - Malvina when back to Berkley campus and studied music at the age of 40 years .... wow! I also remembered Malvina's version within the first couple of seconds of the singing starting. The song released in 1961 - it is a year older than me. Upon listening to the song and reading the lyrics - I was surprised just how pointed and disparaging the comments are towards the education system. Not, that I think otherwise either. Just how the song was released in 1961, well before NAPLAN was ever thought about here in Australia. Okay, there were standardised education tests given back then too. However, one needs to consider ....

Yes, it is still raining, sigh!

Kind regards
Lionel

[RANDLOVER]

The other big design factor in modern cars is the coefficient of drag.

[Lionelgee]

The other big design factor in modern cars is the coefficient of drag.

Hello Randlover,

Yes - they are drag to look at.... sorry I could not resist. A play on words ... you know ...

Okay ... Bad Lionel... Bad

Kind regards
Lionel

[Saitch]

the coefficient of drag.

...........is the lamina of rouge.

[Tins]

G'day Tins,

Pardon my ignorance. In fact it does hit close to home. My mum's maiden name was Reynolds!

Hit the research button ... found on ... accessed 8th August 2025 from, YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUoXtddNPAM ... make that Dr. Malvina Reynolds PhD. Then after meeting Peter Seeger - Malvina when back to Berkley campus and studied music at the age of 40 years .... wow! I also remembered Malvina's version within the first couple of seconds of the singing starting. The song released in 1961 - it is a year older than me. Upon listening to the song and reading the lyrics - I was surprised just how pointed and disparaging the comments are towards the education system. Not, that I think otherwise either. Just how the song was released in 1961, well before NAPLAN was ever thought about here in Australia. Okay, there were standardised education tests given back then too. However, one needs to consider ....

Yes, it is still raining, sigh!

Kind regards
Lionel

Her's was the first version I heard and imo I s the best. She wasn't exactly apolitical but she was probably prophetic to a degree.

[JDNSW]

The other big design factor in modern cars is the coefficient of drag.

Yes - BUT take for example the 1955 Citroen ID19. It has a drag coefficient comparable to most of the best of today's cars, and what's more, it kept it regardless of loading. I suspect if some of today's techniques such as a glued in windscreen, three dimensional curves on door panels, curved side glass, were applied it would still be right at the top for Cx, and would still look nothing like any other car ever mass produced.

I am sure that there are other examples, but that is the one that comes to mind.

And as for colour - the bean counters want to only make the most popular colours as it reduces manufacturing costs, so that charge more for less popular colours - which of course makes them less popular!

[Tins]

Possibly the most revolutionary and influential car ever released. Thing looked like a spaceship at launch, and still does. Incroyable.

[RANDLOVER]

..... the coefficient of drag.


...........is the lamina of rouge.

In addition to guy-liner.

[DoubleChevron]

Yes - BUT take for example the 1955 Citroen ID19. It has a drag coefficient comparable to most of the best of today's cars, and what's more, it kept it regardless of loading. I suspect if some of today's techniques such as a glued in windscreen, three dimensional curves on door panels, curved side glass, were applied it would still be right at the top for Cx, and would still look nothing like any other car ever mass produced.



Its the underbody more than the shape of it. its has trays underneath to guide the air under the car, and a flat floor .... no rear diff. But mostly skinny cheese cutter tyres. put stupid giant sized clown wheels with rubber band tyres on it like most modern cars, and it'll be terrible. If you google up Citroen CX ... they were very good in there time. But as the years went on and they gained spoilers and wider tyres the Cx (french term for drag co-efficient) dropped considerably. The early ones with the really skinny tires are best.

Its a rush to look the same as everyone seems to want a 4wd.... so to sell cars the manufactures are trying to make all there little hatchbacks looks like a 4wd by jacking them up and putting stupid giant wheels on them.

I saw an new (I assumed new) AMG mercede go past me today .... its gotta be one of the ugliest POS looking jacked up lump of merde I've seen in a long time. I can't believe someone paid money for it. To think you could be a lovely grunty AMG passenger sedan ..... rather than that generic blob.

I'm still amazed at the comments I get whenever I drive my wifes modern poogoe .... I even had a red "P" plater males (so 18'ish year old males) asking me what it was .... 'cos it looks so cool a few days back.

You may also find all the modern pedestrian and vehicle crash standards are forcing all the cars to be very much the same in order to pass.

seeya,
Shane L.

[jerryd]

A nice selection of ''Non-Boring Boxes'' for you to peruse from last weekend's VSCC event. The jewel in the crown of events at Prescott Hillclimb [bigsmile1]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwkEvE6vPks


Here's the full event, quicker cars are towards the end of the video [bighmmm]


https://www.youtube.com/live/A3x2G0MNU3c

[B.S.F.]

When as a kid I asked my grandmother what car someone drove, she used to say a green, or black or white one etc.
Now 70years on I'm doing the same.
.W.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I maintain that in general there are very few older cars on the road in Brisbane.

I love going to older towns where you see some older cars still going!

[RANDLOVER]

My problem with these is not looking at them, but the attitude of the driver's. They buy some horrid little bargain basement car and then seem to want to show me it is just as good as, if not better than my luxury imported European SUV, just because it also has four wheels.

In yesterday's example, an awful little car couldn't do the speed limit up a hill on the highway but took off down the hill to a roundabout and tried it's guts out to get through the double lane part before me, however I still went around them in my car with at least an extra ton of weight, higher centre of gravity, higher profile tyres, etc.

[DoubleChevron]

My problem with these is not looking at them, but the attitude of the driver's. They buy some horrid little bargain basement car and then seem to want to show me it is just as good as, if not better than my luxury imported European SUV, just because it also has four wheels.

In yesterday's example, an awful little car couldn't do the speed limit up a hill on the highway but took off down the hill to a roundabout and tried it's guts out to get through the double lane part before me, however I still went around them in my car with at least an extra ton of weight, higher centre of gravity, higher profile tyres, etc.

Sounds like your the problem to me. The type of car you drive does not mean your better or faster than anyone else. talk about "small mans syndrome". Who cares if someones wants to go faster than you. I let anyone pass if they want, who cares :burnrubber: Go for it.....

seeya
Shane L.

[RANDLOVER]

I wanted to pass them and do the speed limit. I have no problem with people doing under the limit if it is dual lanes or no one's around.

Actually on week days I.e. business hours people doing under the limit should be charged with being an enemy agent as they are impinging on the country's efficiency and progress and are therefore providing succour to the enemy!

[JDNSW]

I actually thought it was a speed limit, not a minimum speed! And the NSW government, at least, does not agree - since they have different speed limits for different classes of drivers, despite have thousands of kilometres of state highways with only one lane each direction.

And in any case, many road user vehicles cannot maintain the speed limit in all circumstances, and drivers should not be expected to drive at the speed limit when they regards that speed as unsafe.

[RANDLOVER]

I actually thought it was a speed limit, not a minimum speed! And the NSW government, at least, does not agree - since they have different speed limits for different classes of drivers, despite have thousands of kilometres of state highways with only one lane each direction.

And in any case, many road user vehicles cannot maintain the speed limit in all circumstances, and drivers should not be expected to drive at the speed limit when they regards that speed as unsafe.

Hopefully they get out of the way at the first opportunity and 10kms under the speed limit is not too bad, as long as they do so on hills as well. Most of the time I find people being under the limit is due to not paying attention. I used to often pass cars while I was towing a trailer with a race car on the back, just because people couldn't recognise a hill in time and apply more throttle to compensate.

Also when it comes to governments recognising possible impediment opportunities, I refer you to the Port of Darwin.

[Tins]

My only issue with slow drivers is when they tool along at 80 in a 100 zone, with many frustrated working folks behind, only to speed up to 105 at an overtaking lane. It IS actually illegal to prevent an overtake.

[Tins]

Not 100% sure how the CX factor c oped by the end of this...


https://youtu.be/btB4npyDR1E'si=kbpFXFbTi-HyD5ms

[DoubleChevron]

Not 100% sure how the CX factor c oped by the end of this...


https://youtu.be/btB4npyDR1E'si=kbpFXFbTi-HyD5ms

They panels will actually fly off a Citroen DS like that sometimes in accidents. They are only a decoration held on with a few bolts. the front panels sit on pegs next to the front doors.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=194319&stc=1

a few weeks back I stopped at the local cars and coffee... my battered cars are usually ignored as they aren't hotrods or holdens..... however someone asked me how can you change a rear tire ..... For 15minutes poeple crowded round the battered old car trying to explain to each other how it works.

194318

I guess there isn't much around like these. the rear guard just unbolts with one small bolt and you remove it to change the wheel. the suspension lifts the wheels off the ground with the aid of a "prop".

[JDNSW]

Exactly! And the reason for the bonnet being up is that the spare (and the prop, and the wheelbrace (which also operates the bolt that holds on the rear guard) lives in front of the radiator (with airflow under the spare from under the nose).

[Tins]

About a year after I left the army I worked in North Sydney for a while. I vividly recall being amazed at seeing a bloke driving a GS down Miller Street on three wheels. I always had a deep respect for the REAL Citroens. Crazy as they might be.

[JDNSW]

I have no experience of the GS, but the D Series, having a strong weight bias onto the front wheels, has no issues running with a rear wheel off.

They have a few other interesting features - during late production of them, an advertisement showed one driving at 100kph over a spike to blow a front tyre, followed by an emergency stop in a straight line - with hands off the steering wheel. This is possible because there is no king pin inclination. Front suspension is by equal length wishbones - except they are not wishbones, but forged steel L-shapes, running in taper roller bearings not rubber. Springs are self levelling hydraulic cylinders operating a very high pressure, with springing provided by hydraulic accumulators on each wheel. The proportion of braking is distributed between front and rear by the relative suspension pressures, and the brakes are power - not power assist. The brake pedal has almost no movement, but is pressure sensitive. Front brakes are inboard discs. Hydraulic pressure for suspension, steering and brakes (and originally clutch and gearshift) is from an engine driven pump, with a hydraulic accumulator to provide braking backup.

This hit the market in 1955. And was assembled in Australia in the 1960s! For perspective, The first DS was contemporary with the FJ Holden, basically a prewar Chevrolet, differing only in its unitary construction, but otherwise similar to most prewar American cars.

[DoubleChevron]

I have no experience of the GS, but the D Series, having a strong weight bias onto the front wheels, has no issues running with a rear wheel off.

They have a few other interesting features - during late production of them, an advertisement showed one driving at 100kph over a spike to blow a front tyre, followed by an emergency stop in a straight line - with hands off the steering wheel. This is possible because there is no king pin inclination. Front suspension is by equal length wishbones - except they are not wishbones, but forged steel L-shapes, running in taper roller bearings not rubber. Springs are self levelling hydraulic cylinders operating a very high pressure, with springing provided by hydraulic accumulators on each wheel. The proportion of braking is distributed between front and rear by the relative suspension pressures, and the brakes are power - not power assist. The brake pedal has almost no movement, but is pressure sensitive. Front brakes are inboard discs. Hydraulic pressure for suspension, steering and brakes (and originally clutch and gearshift) is from an engine driven pump, with a hydraulic accumulator to provide braking backup.

This hit the market in 1955. And was assembled in Australia in the 1960s! For perspective, The first DS was contemporary with the FJ Holden, basically a prewar Chevrolet, differing only in its unitary construction, but otherwise similar to most prewar American cars.

Citroen DS and Citroen SM have center point steering, you can completely loose a front wheel and it has no effect on the steering :) Oh, I think the GS also has center point steering.

[Tins]

I remember that Aussie mechanics were terrified of a car that almost any corner store in rural France could fix.

I had an old magazine article written by the (very) late George Bishop, who could write beautifully. It was entitled "God, what a lovely Car" ( iirc). He and some colleagues had been on a cross country journey in a DS, with zero discomfort, at a good pace, the car oing its best magic carpet impression, and each occupant having plenty of room for themselves and their paraphernalia. Try that in an FJ. I know, I had an FJ. Second worse car I ever owned. Course, it wasn't new....

[DoubleChevron]

I remember that Aussie mechanics were terrified of a car that almost any corner store in rural France could fix.

I had an old magazine article written by the (very) late George Bishop, who could write beautifully. It was entitled "God, what a lovely Car" ( iirc). He and some colleagues had been on a cross country journey in a DS, with zero discomfort, at a good pace, the car oing its best magic carpet impression, and each occupant having plenty of room for themselves and their paraphernalia. Try that in an FJ. I know, I had an FJ. Second worse car I ever owned. Course, it wasn't new....

They are designed for high speed travel (in there time). Though its only about 68hp (yeah right, on a good day) the early one I have here ... It'll take a while to get there, but you can cruise at 80mph all day. Your only problem is people in modern cars. I can go up the pentland mountains, climbing from melbourne to ballarat at 70+mph ... no worries, I pass everyone (why the aren't doing the speed limit is beyond me). However it just takes one car slowing me down ... and that's it, momentum is gone until I crest the climbs and can slowly "gather" the speed back.

My father has a late fuel injected 5spd Citroen DS. Still very slow, but you don't understand... in the early 70's. Most cars were. the citroen with its wheezy little 4cylinder could do 0-100 in about 10.5 seconds, and had a usable top speed of about 190km/h. At the time something like a V8 statesman wasn't much faster, and had nowhere near the top speed or cruising speeds.

[JDNSW]

My brother had one in the mid sixties, and one of its most impressive feats was being able to maintain speeds way over the speed limit (I was a young idiot at the time) over long distances regardless of the road - in an eight seat wagon powered by a 69hp motor. I managed to do Ipswich to Roma one night in 3.5hrs. Google currently gives 5hrs for the trip, and the road is a lot better (but probably has more towns - the old way was through Condamine from Dalby). But at least it had a lot better lights and brakes than anything else on the road at the time. And also was able to do the trip without refuelling. Unlike most contemporaries.

[V8Ian]

I remember that Aussie mechanics were terrified of any car that wasn't Holden, Falcon or Valiant.
Fixed that for you John. Mechanics were scared of Volvo B21/23, simple single OHC slant engines. Humber, I was told to find a European specialist.

[Tins]

Fixed that for you John. Mechanics were scared of Volvo B21/23, simple single OHC slant engines. Humber, I was told to find a European specialist.
True. The local guy was terrified of mum's DB18 Daimler.

[Tins]

Interesting. He's spot on about new players and the brakes. And the flying analogy rings true to me as well, but not for the reasons stated. There was a woman near me in /Sydney who drove a CX 2200. You could hear, on a hot day, the thing coming from a block away, sounding like a Boeing attempting takeoff. Amazing car though. First time I ever saw a binnacle like that, let alone the "digital" speedo.


https://youtu.be/9AflojWmtAM'si=1_MRwF2PSDh_MtmU

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Played spotto today in BNE traffic looking for cars 2000 and older. Got four. A falcon, a commodore, a pintara and an old ute.

Once cars hit 10 they definitely start thin out in the Big Smoke. By the time you get to 20.. astonishingly rare.

[JDNSW]

Several years ago, I was travelling on one of my fairly regular trips from Yass to here, when I gradually caught up with what looked like "an interesting car". The first thing noticed was that it was open, and clearly quite old. As I got closer, I could see better, and the most prominent feature was a very large steering wheel, set so high that the driver was actually looking through it, rather than over it. and through individual frameless screens for the driver and front passenger. I could not identify it until I finally managed to pass it - he was travelling just below the speed limit. It was a 3.5 Bentley, British Racing Green, of course.

Then in 2013 I spoke to the owner of a Rolls Royce Light Twenty in Yass.

About ten years earlier I saw a Vauxhall 30/98 in the Blue Mountains, and in 1988 I saw the prototype Rolls Royce 40/50, better known as the Silver Ghost in peak hour traffic in William St Melbourne.

And then, of course, y daily driver is a 1986 110, and my ute a 1970 2a.

There are a few older cars about!

[Saitch]

Our car shed has a 15y.o. Mitsi ASX. Nothing wrong with it. A 10y.o. Kia Cerato. Nothing wrong with it. A 17y.o. D3. Presently having a gearbox recon. All are around the low 200k mileage.

The machinery shed has a 33y.o. 'Cruiser 'tilly. Nothing wrong with it. Closing in on 400k mileage.

Why should I buy a buy a new car?

[Lionelgee]

Played spotto today in BNE traffic looking for cars 2000 and older. Got four. A falcon, a commodore, a pintara and an old ute.

Once cars hit 10 they definitely start thin out in the Big Smoke. By the time you get to 20.. astonishingly rare.

Hello Captain,

Wow, my 2004 Commodore would not have made your list because it is too new ... It is good to know that in some circumstances my Commodore is still considered to be too new ... woot - woot!

My newest Land Rover is a 1996 Discovery - however, it is neither road worthy or registered for the road. The one I want to get road legal first is a January 1993 Defender.

Kind regards
Lionel

[jerryd]

Our car shed has a 15y.o. Mitsi ASX. Nothing wrong with it. A 10y.o. Kia Cerato. Nothing wrong with it. A 17y.o. D3. Presently having a gearbox recon. All are around the low 200k mileage.

The machinery shed has a 33y.o. 'Cruiser 'tilly. Nothing wrong with it. Closing in on 400k mileage.

Why should I buy a buy a new car?


[bighmmm] Is this a trick question

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I did 350k in my 1969 car yesterday. The most it's done since 2011. I felt like I had exposure yesterday from all the wind.

[Saitch]

[bighmmm] Is this a trick question

[biggrin][biggrin][biggrin] Your vehicle ownership and 'Hot Dinners' go hand in hand.

[V8Ian]

[biggrin][biggrin][biggrin] Your vehicle ownership and 'Hot Dinners' go hand in hand.
I wonder what the average age is. [bighmmm]
Somewhere between the Territory and MG. [bigwhistle]

[DoubleChevron]

Interesting. He's spot on about new players and the brakes. And the flying analogy rings true to me as well, but not for the reasons stated. There was a woman near me in /Sydney who drove a CX 2200. You could hear, on a hot day, the thing coming from a block away, sounding like a Boeing attempting takeoff. Amazing car though. First time I ever saw a binnacle like that, let alone the "digital" speedo.


https://youtu.be/9AflojWmtAM'si=1_MRwF2PSDh_MtmU

They have two big radiator fans, they have two big fans like later falcons do. run on a series/parallel circuit (so low and high speed fans). .... In melbourne traffic on hot days, the fans would spool upto high speed.... and the pedestrians on the footpath would take a couple of steps back to avoid the hot air being blown at them. I'm not sure if you have ever driven a CX, but they are horrifically hot to travel in on hot days (that big windscreen is like a sauna, and the A/C is all but hopeless).

The speedo isn't digital, its a drum type speedo, with a magnifying glass infront of it.

I still have a Citroen CX on a club permit, but its a later car (1985), the first of the petrol turbo models. A very fast car in its time, but still extremely hot to travel in (I have even fitted the locally fitted front and rear A/C to mine ... still hot in hot weather). I have quite a few earlier CX's around the yard in various states of decay ... oh and one sitting in hte shed that should probably be restored ( A 79 factory sunroof with twin A/C model ... and a C-matic gearbox which I used to think was stupid, but now I think its great ... the lunacy of it can't be beaten [bigrolf] )

I think its done about 180,000miles now. The motor has never been touched (other than oil changes), the gearbox has never been touched. I've had endless issues with old dodgy wiring though. Oh I just realised, my profile picture here is that car.

seeya
Shane L.

[DoubleChevron]

I did 350k in my 1969 car yesterday. The most it's done since 2011. I felt like I had exposure yesterday from all the wind.

What sort of car? Travelling windows (or top down) does leave you feeling wind blown [bigrolf] Its awesome, a part of the appeal of old cars :banana: it makes you feel alive.

seeya
Shane L.

[123rover50]

What sort of car? Travelling windows (or top down) does leave you feeling wind blown [bigrolf] Its awesome, a part of the appeal of old cars :banana: it makes you feel alive.

seeya
Shane L.

Yes, I had an old Singer 9 Bantam once ,I used to drive to high school in There was a crank handle under the windscreen that when rotated would open up the bottom of the screen nearly horizontal. Good for shooting through chasing bunnies.

[Tins]

I even drove my MGB to the snow fields, top down. Loved it.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

What sort of car? Travelling windows (or top down) does leave you feeling wind blown [bigrolf] Its awesome, a part of the appeal of old cars :banana: it makes you feel alive.

seeya
Shane L.
A Lotus Elan. The engine has just been rebuilt. It's rowdy.

[DoubleChevron]

A Lotus Elan. The engine has just been rebuilt. It's rowdy.

That is really cool.... Are they the ones iwth the little renault alpine motor?

[Captain_Rightfoot]

That is really cool.... Are they the ones iwth the little renault alpine motor?

No - You're thinking of the Europa.

I've owned it for a while now. For a nearly 60 year old car - it's comically fast while being delicate in a way that I've never felt in another car. There is not really anything to compare it to. Gordon Murray who own's a few elans said he tried to get the steering as good in the Mclaren F1 but failed.

These days I've found the best way to describe it to people is it's the car that Formula 1 drivers drove to the GP.

194438


https://youtu.be/FeYvA-bXH_w'si=XSU3YDN4DaR6n7Td

They are pretty too.. so much Mazda faithfully copied them with the MX5. While they certainly copied the styling the concept was more MGB. The elan was a far more serious sports car.

The Mazda MX5 is not a modern day Elan, it’s an MGB! | ViaRETRO (https://viaretro.com/2017/08/the-mazda-mx5-is-not-a-modern-day-elan-its-an-mgb/)

[TonyC]

So the "Little Boring Boxes With Wheels" thread has moved on to Lotus Elans and D and CX Citroens.

😁

[Tins]

A Lotus Elan. The engine has just been rebuilt. It's rowdy.
One of the best handling cars ever. In my experience only the Alfasud Sprint could equal it. Of course, modern tech has gone past them but there's no fun in that.
Gorgeous car sir.

[Tins]

So the "Little Boring Boxes With Wheels" thread has moved on to Lotus Elans and D and CX Citroens.

😁
?Boring ? can only last so long on an AULRO thread before our version of 'sanity ? prevails.

[Tins]

?Boring ? can only last so long on an AULRO thread before our version of 'sanity ? prevails.
Stupid punctuation gremlins. 😡

[DoubleChevron]

?Boring ? can only last so long on an AULRO thread before our version of 'sanity ? prevails.

Sanity? and now comes the pictures of land rover stage 1s and range rover classics towing home Citroen DS's and lotus elans on car trailers ... er ... "to be restored" ... or maybe just stuck out in the paddock with the rest of the treasures so we can dream that "someday" ...... [bigrolf][bigrolf] actually, I kinda have a hankering for a triumph stag for some weird reason (maybe the love of cars and the latest grand tour has affected my brain badly).

[Fattima]

Sanity? and now comes the pictures of land rover stage 1s and range rover classics towing home Citroen DS's and lotus elans on car trailers ... er ... "to be restored" ... or maybe just stuck out in the paddock with the rest of the treasures so we can dream that "someday" ...... [bigrolf][bigrolf] actually, I kinda have a hankering for a triumph stag for some weird reason (maybe the love of cars and the latest grand tour has affected my brain badly).

There is a Dolomite Sprint for sale locally. Very tempted by it, but probably don't need the extra stress in my life....

[Tins]

Sanity? and now comes the pictures of land rover stage 1s and range rover classics towing home Citroen DS's and lotus elans on car trailers ... er ... "to be restored" ... or maybe just stuck out in the paddock with the rest of the treasures so we can dream that "someday" ...... [bigrolf][bigrolf] actually, I kinda have a hankering for a triumph stag for some weird reason (maybe the love of cars and the latest grand tour has affected my brain badly).

The browser on my phone turned these " into these ? I said "sanity". Or what passes for it here. I have a Series 3, gunna. A D1, gunna. A 69 Fiat 124 Sport Coup?, was gunna until a tree fell on it, but it's still here. Oh, and an OKA that I'm still gunna before it gets too much for me. That sort of "sanity".

BL screwed the Stag, as Jeremy said. They had a perfectly good 3.5 V8 to use in it....... I would like an MGB GT V8. But I'm sane.

[Tins]

There is a Dolomite Sprint for sale locally. Very tempted by it, but probably don't need the extra stress in my life....

Cool. Yellow? They were nice little things.

[Tins]

Speaking of sane, I still peruse mp looking at Ovlov, Benz or Jag candidates for a Barra swap. I was even looking at a Chrysler Royal. I'll never do it, but I can imagine the look on the faces of SS owners.

[Fattima]

Cool. Yellow? They were nice little things.
Yep, Yellow. I had a Twin Cam Escort years ago and that was a fun thing, well out of my budget now.

[DoubleChevron]

Speaking of sane, I still peruse mp looking at Ovlov, Benz or Jag candidates for a Barra swap. I was even looking at a Chrysler Royal. I'll never do it, but I can imagine the look on the faces of SS owners.

There is so many nice old cars I see come up you could do this with. particularly old Jags ... they often look really tidy with nice interiors .... for so little money! The pommy cars just seem so unloved. There is often old Mercedes with that amazing seemingly indestructible interior for sale really cheap too.

There is so many cars out there you can have some fun with for not a huge amount of $$$$ if you don't go for the popular makes :) What about a Humber super snipe? there has been one of them for sale near me for a while now.

[Tins]

I've seen a couple of Humbers on mp as well. They haven't become the target for the restorer mob yet. I love the idea of a Jag, because a Barra is almost a modern interpretation of the good ole twin cam, similar size and displacement, but way more powerful and reliable. Parts are easy as well. An old XJ or MKII with a Barra and a six speed would be awesome.
I like the idea of the Ovlov or Benz because they strongly built. But the other options are plentiful. Wolseley, Vauxhall etc. Even an old Falcon Ute.

[Graeme]

Yep, Yellow. I had a Twin Cam Escort years ago and that was a fun thing, well out of my budget now.Too many years ago I eyed-off these Dolomites as an upgrade from my little screamer BRG IMP GT.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

One of the best handling cars ever. In my experience only the Alfasud Sprint could equal it. Of course, modern tech has gone past them but there's no fun in that.
Gorgeous car sir.
Thank you.. it's been quite the journey.

On the club run yesterday with all the modern ones.. It's still alarmingly quick. It's small size means I can pick quite different lines to all the modern cars. The road is much bigger for me!

The modern ones can certainly go faster but whats the point?


https://youtu.be/DQTyd18vmqU'si=tuP5Onhg_6ERDBXI

[V8Ian]

I've seen a couple of Humbers on mp as well. They haven't become the target for the restorer mob yet. I love the idea of a Jag, because a Barra is almost a modern interpretation of the good ole twin cam, similar size and displacement, but way more powerful and reliable. Parts are easy as well. An old XJ or MKII with a Barra and a six speed would be awesome.
I like the idea of the Ovlov or Benz because they strongly built. But the other options are plentiful. Wolseley, Vauxhall etc. Even an old Falcon Ute.
Why go to all the hassle of a transplant for a Volvo, when modifications can extract 1,000 hp from the Volvo red block?

[Tins]

Why go to all the hassle of a transplant for a Volvo, when modifications can extract 1,000 hp from the Volvo red block?
Barras can do that with very few modifications, produce way more torque which is better than just HP. And they are easy to find. A green top hardly needs anything more than a turbo and oil pump. Much easier, and there are shops everywhere that do them.
and why would I put a 4cyl where a 6 used to be, which would be the case in nearly every car mentioned.

[V8Ian]

Volvo? Most were four pot. That is a very reliable and understressed foundation.

[oka374]

Years ago my son had a 264 volvo sedan, we've all seen them blue paint nearly all faded and gone, it was his first car body was sound but that PRV (Peugeot, Renault, Volvo) alloy V6 was a time bomb and eventually dies so we stuffed a 4 cylinder from a 244 in it and it was much more reliable. Somewhere around our location in Hornsby , Sydney at the time there was another 264 that looked very similar but had been repaowered with a V8 complete with blower and heavens knows what else as I never got to look at it up close but that thing went and the torque steer would nearly lift the fron wheels off the deck when it launched.

[DoubleChevron]

Years ago my son had a 264 volvo sedan, we've all seen them blue paint nearly all faded and gone, it was his first car body was sound but that PRV (Peugeot, Renault, Volvo) alloy V6 was a time bomb and eventually dies so we stuffed a 4 cylinder from a 244 in it and it was much more reliable. Somewhere around our location in Hornsby , Sydney at the time there was another 264 that looked very similar but had been repaowered with a V8 complete with blower and heavens knows what else as I never got to look at it up close but that thing went and the torque steer would nearly lift the fron wheels off the deck when it launched.

when I was a kid, my uncle had a baby poo brown 244 volvo. its motor died, so he fitted an all alloy 3.5 rover v8 into it. The main thing I remember is the sound of it .... my cousin reckoned it near did wheel stands until he blew up the 4cylinder auto and diff and re-geared it for the V8.

I've noticed on the amercian youtube car channels .... the sort of nutter that like old junk like me, they often talk about "importing that austrailan 6cylinder barra motor". So that thing is legendary around the world! In the land of readily available, basically worthless small block V8s (america) I dont' see why they would bother with the 6 banger though.

seeya
Shane L.

[DoubleChevron]

Thank you.. it's been quite the journey.

On the club run yesterday with all the modern ones.. It's still alarmingly quick. It's small size means I can pick quite different lines to all the modern cars. The road is much bigger for me!

The modern ones can certainly go faster but whats the point?


https://youtu.be/DQTyd18vmqU'si=tuP5Onhg_6ERDBXI

The only reason I've never looked into these sorts of cars (like the lotus etc) ... is they are expensive for a toy :) For a crazy/stupid fun car I would have looked at something like a Renault 8 fitted with a Renault 16ts motor ... You can build this sort of car for very little money in the past. (the Renault Alpine A110 etc motors are based on the 16TS motor). So you end up with an insane rear engined, swing axle.... tail happy terror. Well its the stark opposite of the lotus, but gee's the fun you will have.


About 10years ago my wife took me on one of those drive days. I got to drive a little modern lotus, a V8 manual gearbox ferrari, and an AWD paddle shift Lamborghini ....

The lamdo was no doubt the vastly superior car. I didn't like it at all. stupid flappy paddle gearbox, so extraordinarily competent I couldn't imagine being able to push it ... "boring not fun to drive" was my feeling. The little lotus was fabulous... absolutely loved it ... So light and nimble .... Until I drove that ferrari.... Oh man. I couldn't care how crap it was as a car. The gearbox.... the motor ... the sounds .... That V8 howling out to its redline behind your ear. I'd do right hand turns out of round-a-bout with the go pedal nailed to the floor, the tail squirming under power ... the sound ... How could you ever own one of these and keep your license for more than 5 minutes. What a machine, something you want to drive just for the experience, you don't even have to really be going fast.

seeya
Shane L.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

The only reason I've never looked into these sorts of cars (like the lotus etc) ... is they are expensive for a toy :) For a crazy/stupid fun car I would have looked at something like a Renault 8 fitted with a Renault 16ts motor ... You can build this sort of car for very little money in the past. (the Renault Alpine A110 etc motors are based on the 16TS motor). So you end up with an insane rear engined, swing axle.... tail happy terror. Well its the stark opposite of the lotus, but gee's the fun you will have.


About 10years ago my wife took me on one of those drive days. I got to drive a little modern lotus, a V8 manual gearbox ferrari, and an AWD paddle shift Lamborghini ....

The lamdo was no doubt the vastly superior car. I didn't like it at all. stupid flappy paddle gearbox, so extraordinarily competent I couldn't imagine being able to push it ... "boring not fun to drive" was my feeling. The little lotus was fabulous... absolutely loved it ... So light and nimble .... Until I drove that ferrari.... Oh man. I couldn't care how crap it was as a car. The gearbox.... the motor ... the sounds .... That V8 howling out to its redline behind your ear. I'd do right hand turns out of round-a-bout with the go pedal nailed to the floor, the tail squirming under power ... the sound ... How could you ever own one of these and keep your license for more than 5 minutes. What a machine, something you want to drive just for the experience, you don't even have to really be going fast.

seeya
Shane L.

I bought mine a long time ago.. last century. :o it was 25k. I would have spent a good amount on repairs.

I really think they are cheap. It's hard to say what classic cars actually sell for. There are so few of them, and they rarely come up for sale. But probably now a good one goes for 60-70 ish. Plus or minus.

I look at what Mini's go for.. a cooper is 40 or 50. There were 200,000 Minis sold in Aus. There were 20 thousand Cooper S alone made in Australia. Elans.. there were 8-12k made in the world, and there are only probably a couple hundred in Australia. Probably at most only 100 ish "in care" these days.

And I look at the price of the fords and holdens which trade for big $$ and there were many many times the numbers made and sold.

I suspect it's because people around are not aware of what they actually are. So even though the supply is far more limited, there isn't as much demand as there is for more well known 'classics'. Will be interesting to see how things play out.

[NavyDiver]

Swapped my daily to a 2010 ex police car today taking someone to work. I brought it for my mum and dad several years ago. Its rather beaten up by some touchy feely driving by one of them. It's my temporary Tow tug for my boat.


Stopping here before dinner. My very Bright BLUE car for this visit

194446

We had Blue Light Houses and Bridges.

RIP Offices and care for everyone affected.

Except a lunatic - I'll hold my thoughts on what I think should happen there!

[DoubleChevron]

I bought mine a long time ago.. last century. :o it was 25k. I would have spent a good amount on repairs.

I really think they are cheap. It's hard to say what classic cars actually sell for. There are so few of them, and they rarely come up for sale. But probably now a good one goes for 60-70 ish. Plus or minus.

I look at what Mini's go for.. a cooper is 40 or 50. There were 200,000 Minis sold in Aus. There were 20 thousand Cooper S alone made in Australia. Elans.. there were 8-12k made in the world, and there are only probably a couple hundred in Australia. Probably at most only 100 ish "in care" these days.

And I look at the price of the fords and holdens which trade for big $$ and there were many many times the numbers made and sold.

I suspect it's because people around are not aware of what they actually are. So even though the supply is far more limited, there isn't as much demand as there is for more well known 'classics'. Will be interesting to see how things play out.

Oh gees ... I wasn't criticising you buying a lotus, I was just explaining why I've never looked at one ( to put me being a tight ass into perspective, I think the last ****box range rover I purchased was $800).

I have crappy old Citroen DS's. They have increased dramatically in value in the time I've owned them. I probably paid less than $1500 for the ones I own. These days the "good cars" change hand for the $50->80,000 mark .... Which is just nuts, they are now so far out of my price range, they would be a pipe dream if I didn't already own some desperate ones.

As always the world moves on. Its already started, the current generation is interested in old Japanese cars... the cars they grew up in the back seat of. Not the cars that interest anyone over 50 that now drive the classic car market.

seeya
Shane L.

[jerryd]

This was probably the most boring little box to drive on the road, it didn't like deep puddles neither [bigwhistle]


194449

[V8Ian]

It seems to be a Lada thing, Jerry.

194450

[RANDLOVER]

The only car that didn't like puddles more than a Lada was a Mini, with the distributor mounted low at the front. I knew a family who loved them, had three or four, and would religiously spray the dizzy with WD40 for water dispersal. IIRC, the father had the dizzy wrapped in a plastic bag.

[V8Ian]

The only car that didn't like puddles more than a Lada was a Mini, with the distributor mounted low at the front. I knew a family who loved them, had three or four, and would religiously spray the dizzy with WD40 for water dispersal. IIRC, the father had the dizzy wrapped in a plastic bag.
A rubber or surgical glove was great for that.

[RANDLOVER]

Actually it might have been a glove, as most of them worked and volunteered as nurses, paramedics and first aiders.

[JDNSW]

I had a Moke for a while, but it did not worry about water, although I never really tried any serious wet driving.

[V8Ian]

Maybe not so little, or boring.


https://youtu.be/V7Hgp_4eLWk'si=g3yZ5pzzz74J7q3W

[Tins]

This guy talks about things being way ahead of their time. I think he got into the spirit of things a little too much, because he sounds like a voiceover model that is usually done by AI these days...
https://youtu.be/9zS-n1e7We0?si=9KYXORSF-5wD_Gas

[DoubleChevron]

This guy talks about things being way ahead of their time. I think he got into the spirit of things a little too much, because he sounds like a voiceover model that is usually done by AI these days...
https://youtu.be/9zS-n1e7We0?si=9KYXORSF-5wD_Gas


I'll have to watch that later. Ahead of its time in 1988 ... interesting. The CX was already 13 years old in 1988 (from memory they started building them in 1975). They are a lovely old car. But like most old cars, far from perfect. They are horrendously hot to travel in. The ventilation sucks. The drivelines are agricultural to say the least (Yes, the turbo charged models were very fast for there time. The turbo diesels broke all of the speed and enconomy records for passenger cars when new).... But they are still gruff and suffer poor NVH.

I've been driving and working on Citroen CX's since I was about 16years old. I'll never sell the Citroen CX2500 GTi Turbo I have here.... But that doesn't mean they are perfect. There is however no doubt in my mind, that cars abilitity to do the seemingly impossible when I despately needed it has saved my life a couple of time when I was young and stupid (I'm now old and stupid :) ). Especially its ability to avoid ... drive around obstacles at speed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-MhyyGV0Bo


Citroen is all about suspension, even where no hydraulics is involved. Check this out


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--rRyeh-viI

[Tombie]

Cars are no longer looked at by the majority with the "love" they once were.
New generations are even abondoning the idea of having one... My 30 yo Son and his Fiance dont even have licences.

When a vehicle is looked at as just a conveyance, and need be nothing but fit for purpose, the price point lowers and style becomes of little consequence.

I'd suggest the packaging excercise is also driven by attempts to lower drag, theres only so many ways you can curve plastic/metal to make it work and meet crash standards..



In our applications - look at what gets bolted all over them, how we modify them.... When something bog stock can do >95% of what most actually do with them.


I am a fan of nice vehicles, I enjoy the drive.. I can however, see the other side of it.

[superquag]

The other big design factor in modern cars is the coefficient of drag.


Way too big a factor in the design-balance, IMHO. When considering that air resistance is of relatively. little influence under, say, 70 km/h, the balance being 'rolled' by significant drivetrain resistance & tyre deformation... in that lower region of 0 - 60km/h, where we spend most of our time in suburbia.

It is a wisdom in Archery, that the Bowman will be affected by the wind - more than his arrow.

If I stay out of 'freeway traffic, I can get up to 8+. mpg. out of the Big Orange SchoolBus I've been driving. The 59 seat one. [biggrin]


Edit: Attribution & removing expressive excess !!!!!!!

[bigwhistle]

[Tins]

Actually it might have been a glove, as most of them worked and volunteered as nurses, paramedics and first aiders.
Cut the tips off the "fingers" to put the leads out through... We also used Vaseline to seal them. I spent a VERY wet few days at a servo in Wollongong, Fig Trea perhaps, and spent a LOT of time getting called out to stranded cars. Lucas dizzies were the worst, but not alone. Didn't seem to have any impact on the Corollas and Dattos though.
Didn't have WD** in those days, but we did have RP-7, which worked.

[Tins]

https://youtu.be/yQHjLP6JAPE?si=BBN7FBt2U73_-lbH

[DoubleChevron]

speaking of boring little boxes .....

Log in to Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/32709488471969761)

I haven't seen a CX for sale with nice interior like this in probably 25 years!

194777

194778

194779




damn .... I guess I better make some more space in the shed [bigwhistle]:wasntme: You don't need to be nuts, but is sure does help!

seeya
Shane L.

[Saitch]

speaking of boring little boxes .....







damn .... I guess I better make some more space in the shed [bigwhistle]:wasntme: You don't need to be nuts, but is sure does help!

seeya
Shane L.

For some reason, I've always thought you were married. Now? I'm not so sure.[wink11]

[DoubleChevron]

For some reason, I've always thought you were married. Now? I'm not so sure.[wink11]

Hmmm.... would she notice another car in the yard ... After all the best place to hide a car is among many other cars [bigrolf][bigwhistle]

my father purchased this one.... it'll probably come here to live for a bit until it ready to be put on the road. It will no doubt need a million and one minor jobs done to it (hydraulic leaks, normal servicing, endless electric/wiring connectors cleaned and protected etc).

seeya
Shane L.

[Tins]

For some reason, I've always thought you were married. Now? I'm not so sure.[wink11]
I’m not [bigwhistle]
194781194782

[Tins]

I’m not [bigwhistle]
194781194782

Like I don't have enough stones around my neck... But I simply can't let it get crushed. So, my Disco 1 and Series three are going. Man's gotta do what... Sigh. And we think Land Rover bits are hards to get.

[DoubleChevron]

I’m not [bigwhistle]
194781194782

Do you have the rest of it .... I'm trying to keep cars "together" these days. I've learnt by hard experiance if I pull something apart, the likelyhood it will be re-assembled is very remote [bighmmm]

[Tins]

Define "the rest of it". I have some bits.... Thing is, they're getting rarer. I'm willing to admit I may not do the thing myself, but there's a bit of interest from people who would take on the whole thing. I've been looking for a shell, because the red one is more rust than car.

194786194787194788

[Tins]

. I've learnt by hard experiance if I pull something apart, the likelyhood it will be re-assembled is very remote [bighmmm]

In my case you can multiply that by ADHD.

[V8Ian]

Fiat 124 or 125 coupe? Maybe 850.

[Tins]

Fiat 124 or 125 coupe? Maybe 850.

69 124AC Coupé. Well, mine is a 69. The white one ( suppose that's mine too ) I'm not sure. Might be earlier.

[Tins]

It looked a little like this, once...

194792

Except for those lights, and mine had the steering wheel on the right ( and correct ) side.

[V8Ian]

Thanks John, I thought it was a124, but then not being an Italian car fan, began to doubt myself.

[Tins]

but not being an Italian car fan, began to doubt myself.

As you should...

[DoubleChevron]

You must have nearly all the parts there to assemble a good car if you have intact rusty parts cars there ? [bigrolf][bigrolf][bigrolf]

[Tins]

You must have nearly all the parts there to assemble a good car if you have intact rusty parts cars there ? [bigrolf][bigrolf][bigrolf]

Probably have a few bits leftover.... with my sanity.

[V8Ian]

Probably have a few bits leftover.... with my sanity.
Your what?

[Tins]

Your what?

I see you've forgotten as well....

[DoubleChevron]

speaking of boring little boxes .....

Log in to Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/32709488471969761)

I haven't seen a CX for sale with nice interior like this in probably 25 years!

194777

194778

194779




damn .... I guess I better make some more space in the shed [bigwhistle]:wasntme: You don't need to be nuts, but is sure does help!

seeya
Shane L.

Well we went over with a battery. We cleaned the tachometric relay and injection relays connections and the car burst to life sounding absolutely lovely. One smooth quiet little 4 banger (for one of these it is quiet and smooth either way). And just drove it onto the trailer.

Now for the endless "clean and replace" for the all the wiring connections to make sure it is reliable. Lots of fun!

[Tins]

[bigsad]
. And just drove it onto the trailer.


!
Can’t see that happening for me [bigsad]

[DoubleChevron]

[bigsad]
Can’t see that happening for me [bigsad]

Well... You didn't even try did you? I wasn't going to bother to try, but my father wanted to see if it would run :)

[Tins]

Well... You didn't even try did you?

Well, no, since you ask. I'm saving that up for my YouTube "Will it Run and Drive" video...
194820194821

Reckon I'll get a few clicks...

[V8Ian]

Well, no, since you ask. I'm saving that up for my YouTube "Will it Run and Drive" video...
194820194821

Reckon I'll get a few clicks...
Quite possibly, but not from there, which seems to be the point of those sort of video. [biggrin]

[Tins]

Quite possibly, but not from there, which seems to be the point of those sort of video. [biggrin]

They annoy me. Anything will run and drive if you throw enough money at it.

[Tins]

Got one of these, Shane?

https://youtu.be/AabDQ3B1MxM?si=uK8W8yif6pugFpyX

[V8Ian]

How the mighty fall.

194844

Well, it's got some wheels.

[Saitch]

How the mighty fall.

194844

Well, it's got some wheels.

I wonder what the tail shaft is off? Perhaps a MIG? [biggrin]

[Tins]

Whoever did that combined Heath Robinson with the KISS principle. Hope it wasn’t the glorious V8.

[DoubleChevron]

Got one of these, Shane?

https://youtu.be/AabDQ3B1MxM?si=uK8W8yif6pugFpyX

Nah, my mother has a 2cv though. It doesn't get driven much. My parents imported the 2cv and CX turbo from the UK in the mid 90s when they lived there for a year on a job exchange.

Dyanes have never had the cult following of the 2cv.

seeya
Shane L.

[JDNSW]

In the early seventies my brother lived in Denmark, and bought a new Dyane. In 1973 I visited him, and we drove round western Europe and the UK in it. It worked OK, but the interior noise level reminded me of a Cessna 150.

Had an interesting experience in France - it was due for a warranty service, so he took to a dealer. They had problems - the service book they had to fill out was in Danish!

And he drove from Copenhagen to meet me at Schipol - arriving half a day late after the alternator failed in Hamburg.

He told me that the price of the Dyane in Denmark was almost exactly the same as the price of a Holden in Australia.

[Tins]

194853

[DoubleChevron]

194853

It really does look to have very little rust from this far away!

[Saitch]

It really does look to have very little rust from this far away!

All in the driver's door, perhaps?

[V8Ian]

It goes just as fast in reverse as the Disco does forward. I suppose it has an artificial weight advantage.

[Tins]

It really does look to have very little rust from this far away!
That’s why I took the photo from that distance.

[Tins]

All in the driver's door, perhaps?
Both doors, bonnet and bootlid. I’m surprised that the side windows went too.

[Tins]

[bigsad]
It goes just as fast in reverse as the Disco does forward. I suppose it has an artificial weight advantage.
And did it without overheating, which is more than I can say about the D2.[bigsad]

Never rains and all that.

[DoubleChevron]

Who lives near brisbane.... I'm so glad this isn't near me .... I'd have to find more space in the shed ..

Log in to Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/834440692876572)

Go for it guys!

seeya
Shane L.

[RANDLOVER]

This SII Land Rover conversion is definitely not boring, I saw it years ago in one of the monthly Land Rover magazines, I like it....
195298
https://www.reddit.com/r/sportsandclassiccars/comments/1prtp5y/german_land_rover_enthusiasts_thomas_bell_and/

Here is something similar, a longnose SII....It's a long story... - Land Rover Monthly (https://www.landrovermonthly.co.uk/articles/series-iia-longnose-bell-aurens/)