M and S lights, turns over but no start

[Adarewyr]

Hey guys, tried to start my truck today and have the M and S lights flashing at me, it will turn over but not start, and I don't believe my fuel pump is working as it is not making the normal little whines that I would expect.

I have tried to jump start it incase it was a voltage issue as I read that may be the problem, and I have pressed the inertia switch which seemed to have been triggered and clicked when I pressed it.

Only other thing I remember walking past it earlier this morning to get to another car and hearing something electric in the engine bay making a small whine when it was not turned on and shouldn't have been doing anything, could be related or could be something else weird

any advice on what to look at next would be appreciated, I read through a thread that sounded almost identical but didn't really see a solution at the end of it

[Adarewyr]

I've just checked and when cranking there is no reading on the tacho, wondering if this means it may be a CPS sensor failure that's not letting the fuel pump work? This is on an auto td5 if that helps

[Tins]

M&S lights can mean a few things engine related. It can be cam signal error, or it can be the XYZ switch, but you say it's cranking. Low battery can definitely cause the cam angle fault. CPS won't usually trigger the M&S, but it's a Disco so never say never. Thing is, I think if it sets the code, regardless of whether you have charged the battery, it will need to be cleared. Could be wrong. The no tacho reading could be the CPS, however I still don't think it will set this code and flash the M&S. Is the MIL on? That should be if it's the CPS.
Do you own or have access to a Nanocom? It's probably the only way to sort this.

[Tins]

Oh, have you checked for oil in the red plug on the ECU? That can cause all sorts of weirdness, and unless you have an upgraded injector harness you WILL get oil there at some point. Oil can even travel from there up into the engine bay fuse box. A good spray in the plug, both on the harness and the ECU could help, but make sure you use something that dries quickly with no residue, like an electronic contact cleaner. Leaving it wet with anything at all will cause problems.

[Adarewyr]

M&S lights can mean a few things engine related. It can be cam signal error, or it can be the XYZ switch, but you say it's cranking. Low battery can definitely cause the cam angle fault. CPS won't usually trigger the M&S, but it's a Disco so never say never. Thing is, I think if it sets the code, regardless of whether you have charged the battery, it will need to be cleared. Could be wrong. The no tacho reading could be the CPS, however I still don't think it will set this code and flash the M&S. Is the MIL on? That should be if it's the CPS.
Do you own or have access to a Nanocom? It's probably the only way to sort this.

I get a battery light, hdc or sls light lights up occasionally, no check engine light but the glow plug light also stays permanently on

No access to a nanocom, may be the case that I need to purchase my own one now ... My mechanic has a discovery 1 but doesn't have a nanocom as I've asked before about setting new heights for the sls

Only other thing I can think is there is water getting in the driver's side windscreen, as this was the issue I was about to try to fix today before I couldn't move the truck into the sun, so water has been getting into the dash on the driver's side

[Tins]

I get a battery light, hdc or sls light lights up occasionally, no check engine light but the glow plug light also stays permanently on

No access to a nanocom, may be the case that I need to purchase my own one now ... My mechanic has a discovery 1 but doesn't have a nanocom as I've asked before about setting new heights for the sls

Only other thing I can think is there is water getting in the driver's side windscreen, as this was the issue I was about to try to fix today before I couldn't move the truck into the sun, so water has been getting into the dash on the driver's side

Hmm. The interior fusebox is notorious for getting corrosion from the water and causing all sorts of craziness. I had a thread about mine. Post #19 (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2-a/299949-diagnosing-weirdness-help.html#post3229931)
Not hard to fix, but fiddly.

[Tins]

And, yes, if you're going to have a TD5 and do stuff yourself then a Nanocom is almost compulsory. They sometimes come up for sale here and on the AULRO FB group, just be sure it is coded for D2 TD5 or you'll have to pay BBS for a code. You can still get them from BBS, but they cost... But, they do pay for themselves.

They don't work with the D1.

[Adarewyr]

I've looked at getting one already, but was hoping to find one secondhand before I needed it! And yep I know you need to pay them again for the software for every different model and engine etc....


Just checked the red plug and everything looks clean, there is a little bit of water in the bottom of the plastic housing from a river crossing yesterday I suspect, but the plug itself all looked clean

[Adarewyr]

Checked again, I've been battling with kids while I check stuff and it is oil in the plastic cover, and then I guess maybe a little residue on the connections so I will get some contact cleaner and see if that helps me at all....

[Tins]

I've looked at getting one already, but was hoping to find one secondhand before I needed it! And yep I know you need to pay them again for the software for every different model and engine etc....


Just checked the red plug and everything looks clean, there is a little bit of water in the bottom of the plastic housing from a river crossing yesterday I suspect, but the plug itself all looked clean
Could the water have got into the ECU? That will do it too. If you think it could have you can take the lid off and dry it out. T22 security Torx I think. You won’t hurt it if you don’t poke at it, quick spray with contact cleaner, or even some compressed air, but not too harsh. What you are describing could be a topside switch fault, which is the ECU, but it can easily be moisture. They don’t like being wet but it usually doesn’t do permanent damage. Nano would tell you.

Good luck with it. Let us know how you go.

[Adarewyr]

Appreciate your help man! Do you know if anyone has a td5 d2 nanocom for sale on any of those places you mentioned? Probably still be cheaper than a new one from England at this point and I'll need it for my air suspension regardless

Already done more work to this truck than my last two utes.... Let the fun begin

[Tins]

Appreciate your help man! Do you know if anyone has a td5 d2 nanocom for sale on any of those places you mentioned? Probably still be cheaper than a new one from England at this point and I'll need it for my air suspension regardless

Already done more work to this truck than my last two utes.... Let the fun begin
Not at the moment but I look often. They don’t come from England, they come from Cyprus. Colin from BBS is a member on here but we don’t see him much now. D2 and P38 cars are getting on now. You might get lucky I sold mine when the car was off the road for some time. Regretted it and had to get another one when my Disco became my daily driver again.
Do you use facebook at all? I only use it for groups. You could try joining here Log in to Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/2517091185)i

[shack]

What do the temperature and fuel gauge do with the ignition turned on? It's there a red light on in the temp gauge?

If you pump the throttle pedal 5 or 6 times, the fuel pump should go into a purge cycle and run for quite some time whilst cycling on and off occasionally.

If you can't hear this, report back.

[Adarewyr]

What do the temperature and fuel gauge do with the ignition turned on? It's there a red light on in the temp gauge?

If you pump the throttle pedal 5 or 6 times, the fuel pump should go into a purge cycle and run for quite some time whilst cycling on and off occasionally.

If you can't hear this, report back.

I will need to go plug it all back in, I was going to just try a new ECU as i found 2 for $50 each off a guy online. From memory the temp gauge sits at halfway and the fuel gauge was on full with a red light on one of them

[shack]

Check the ECU fuse, I think it's in the fusebox under the steering wheel from memory.

[Adarewyr]

Check the ECU fuse, I think it's in the fusebox under the steering wheel from memory.

Checked it, all looks fine... Will try a new ECU and contact cleaner on everything tomorrow and see if it fixes anything...

[Tins]

Shack will know more about this than I do, but I think the ECU will have to match the old one, and will need to be programmed. But, I’ve never done it myself so I don’t know for sure.

[shack]

Yes, you will need some way of re learning the security code. Otherwise the new ECU will show as immobilised.

It's quite possible the original ECU has died with the dash lights you are seeing.

It's also quite possible that there is a power problem somewhere as well.

I'd definitely be choosing that first.

It's really hard without any diag gear.

[AK83]

Appreciate your help man! Do you know if anyone has a td5 d2 nanocom for sale on any of those places you mentioned? .....

I saw one on marketplace for $880!!! the chap is in Ballarat. Read through description etc, and it looks like they are a reseller, kind'a sort'a ... they have products and services, but they don't have any products, nor any services available!

Not sure if scam, or new website for new business, or what.

[Tins]

You might get lucky, I have seen them, but these days people like us who hang on to their Discos hang on to their Nanocoms as well. Tf you bite the new bullet you'll get it pretty quickly, and some of the prices people ask are nearly the same as new anyway. We used to be able to get a group discount on here, but I think the demand is falling. I kicked myself when I realised what I had lost, and the one I sold was also unlocked for some other things. That goes with the device, and you need to pay again if you want that functionality. The D2 TD5 kit does work with some of the functions on a TD5 Defender, but not the other way round. I was able to help someone with their ABS, for example.

Anyway.... (https://www.nanocom-diagnostics.com/product/ncom02-discovery-ii-td5-kit)

Oh, and don't be tempted by some of the others out there that claim to work with Land Rovers. Sure, they can do some things, but it's important to understand that the TD5, while it has a OBDII style plug, it is NOT OBDII compliant. NAS cars probably were, because the US mandated it some time before the ROW. And they were mostly V8, in the Disco at any rate. You might find a Bearmach Hawkeye I guess. They did most of what you need, but they have been out of production for years.

[Tins]

I saw one on marketplace for $880!!! the chap is in Ballarat. Read through description etc, and it looks like they are a reseller, kind'a sort'a ... they have products and services, but they don't have any products, nor any services available!

Not sure if scam, or new website for new business, or what.

Gunna pay that, might as well get one from the source. $730, ++ And you will get the correct lead, as one size does not fit all. And a warranty, FWIW.

Here (https://www.nanocom-diagnostics.com/shop/browse)

[AK83]

......
Oh, and don't be tempted by some of the others out there that claim to work with Land Rovers. Sure, they can do some things, but it's important to understand that the TD5, while it has a OBDII style plug, it is NOT OBDII compliant......

I dunno what the communication protocol is, but my mid-high end Autel 906 can communicate with the TD5 in some respects.

Haven't fully tested it, and it does give some live tests and live data recording type stuff. I suppose it would as it may be related to BCU rather than ECU, and you'd expect some commonality between V8 BCUs and TD5 BCUs.

But the Autel was twice the price of the nanocom(I needed it for my Puegeots) and I wouldn't consider a cheaper one(yet) as an alternative to a nanocom for a TD5.

If I ever have any TD5 specific issues, I'm going to try to use the Autel and nanocom on it and compare their respective outputs.

Only things I have tested with the Autel is ABS and key programming. ABS does most, if not all, of the nanocom functions that I can find(bleed, tests, and live data) and both nanocom and Autel both had a lot of difficulty getting the key I tried to program for the D2a to stick.
They both stated that the key was synced, but the key just wouldn't work. Original key was crappy as hell, and only one, so I wanted the secutrity of having a spare.

I tried briefly on the D2 to program another key too, and again, both nanocom and Autel both gave the same grief, and I didn't have the 30mins of patience again to got through that. Brother still has his spare on that one, so no rush.

[Tins]

I dunno what the communication protocol is, but my mid-high end Autel 906 can communicate with the TD5 in some respects.

Haven't fully tested it, and it does give some live tests and live data recording type stuff. I suppose it would as it may be related to BCU rather than ECU, and you'd expect some commonality between V8 BCUs and TD5 BCUs.

But the Autel was twice the price of the nanocom(I needed it for my Puegeots) and I wouldn't consider a cheaper one(yet) as an alternative to a nanocom for a TD5.

If I ever have any TD5 specific issues, I'm going to try to use the Autel and nanocom on it and compare their respective outputs.

Only things I have tested with the Autel is ABS and key programming. ABS does most, if not all, of the nanocom functions that I can find(bleed, tests, and live data) and both nanocom and Autel both had a lot of difficulty getting the key I tried to program for the D2a to stick.
They both stated that the key was synced, but the key just wouldn't work. Original key was crappy as hell, and only one, so I wanted the secutrity of having a spare.

I tried briefly on the D2 to program another key too, and again, both nanocom and Autel both gave the same grief, and I didn't have the 30mins of patience again to got through that. Brother still has his spare on that one, so no rush.

The Autel stuff is fine. My local has one, but for a busy shop, $13K, and licensing of manufactures tech resources. And It won't work with a TD5 D2. Sure, does a few things, but we need to remember that the D2 and P38 were in some sense orphans. P38 security systems spring to mind. Shop keeps a Nanocom...

Coding a key on a Nano is a snap. It's navigating the menus, and remembering that you haven't actually finished when you think you have that's the issue. There is one last step that most, me included, miss , until you have done it a few times, and recently. Which reminds me, I need to check mine. The car does not respond to it anymore, and yet the RF test detects it. Car is currently immobilised [bigsad], and the sequence of events leading up to this could have triggered it to forget the key. Hope so, cos that would be the easiest fix.... So, it won't have...

[discorevy]

water has been getting into the dash on the driver's side As mentioned, check the inside fusebox, you'll have to remove it


river crossing yesterday

If your D2 is an earlier (pre 2002 my) model, someone may have removed the lid on the ECU and not sealed it properly, so maybe it's too late, but pull the lid and check for water ingress. Don't forget to reseal properly, and, also as mentioned, a replacement ECU won't allow it to start without a relearn of the security code.


Car is currently immobilised [bigsad], and the sequence of events leading up to this could have triggered it to forget the key. Hope so, cos that would be the easiest fix.... So, it won't have...

EKA should wake it up

[Tins]

EKA should wake it up

Using the correct procedure helps.....

[Adarewyr]

I've checked all the fuses but I will check again, we had a big storm Saturday and Sunday morning was when it stopped starting. Will putting a new ECU and then putting the old one back cause me any issues? I know you guys have said it won't help but the guy I got it off reckoned it would just work right away, they're here now so want to try it just to rule it out but obviously don't want to do anything to make it worse

Will recheck fuses now, and multi meter the battery to make sure it's fine although it's turning over perfectly, after fuses and the battery I guess I'll get to shell out for a new nanocom! If anyone else is in the South of NZ and needs one I'll be the guy for it....

[Tins]

I've checked all the fuses but I will check again, we had a big storm Saturday and Sunday morning was when it stopped starting. Will putting a new ECU and then putting the old one back cause me any issues? I know you guys have said it won't help but the guy I got it off reckoned it would just work right away, they're here now so want to try it just to rule it out but obviously don't want to do anything to make it worse

Will recheck fuses now, and multi meter the battery to make sure it's fine although it's turning over perfectly, after fuses and the battery I guess I'll get to shell out for a new nanocom! If anyone else is in the South of NZ and needs one I'll be the guy for it....

I think the only harm you could do would be to the ECU itself, but I can't see why.

[Adarewyr]

New ECU changed nothing at all, rechecked fuses and all look okay so I will ask around and see if someone close by has a nanocom before I purchase one

Also tried the throttle pedal 5-6 times thing with no luck, dash is a red light on a temp gauge at half, fuel on full with a check engine light that flashes on and off

[Tins]

And this is a known good ECU? Hmm. I repeat my suggestion of the fusebox. After that I'll hand over to the blokes that do this for a living.

[discorevy]

New ECU changed nothing at all, rechecked fuses and all look okay so I will ask around and see if someone close by has a nanocom before I purchase one

Also tried the throttle pedal 5-6 times thing with no luck, dash is a red light on a temp gauge at half, fuel on full with a check engine light that flashes on and off

Pull the internal fusebox, it's not just fuses, I was just using that terminology so you'd know what it was. Water runs down the back of them when you have leaks, and can cause your issues.

It's called an IDM ( Intelligent driver module )
If it can't be dried out, get another but make sure it suits your model.
You'll also need to leave ignition on for 5 minutes to re-establish comms, if it's not the original.

Also, if your ECU start with "MSB", someone may have "chipped" it, which may not have been resealed properly.

[Adarewyr]

And this is a known good ECU? Hmm. I repeat my suggestion of the fusebox. After that I'll hand over to the blokes that do this for a living.

I guess that's a good point, I was sold 3 and told 2 definitely work 1 is known to not work, so I tried all 3 and all behaved identically to my current one. Will a non nanotech scan tool work to read the codes, or is it completely useless. I have been reading and I thought I read some tools can scan codes just cannot program

[Tins]

Yes, some tools will read codes. Will they clear them? I dunno. I would avoid the ones at Bunnings ( do you have those? ), and make sure you get a money back thing. There is still the issue with the TD5 and OBDII protocols. Not saying they won't work, but they might not. Most of us put up with the Nanocom peculiarities, because we can't find anything else. Keep an eye out for a Hawkeye as well. Doubt you'll find one, but..

If I wasn't up to my armpits with my own issues I'd post you mine for a lend. But it's getting a workout at the moment.

[AK83]

..... Will a non nanotech scan tool work to read the codes, or is it completely useless. I have been reading and I thought I read some tools can scan codes just cannot program

Of the cheap ones, and I assume you don't want to spend the $700+ for the nanocom .... I'd say no.

You can get generic ELM327 cheapie bluetooth OBD dongles for $10ish on the net, won't work. Brother got a cheap end Autel(before I got mine), don't work. He also got one of those scanguage devices(I think it's called that), don't work.

Note that they all work, in some way, on other cars incl on the V8 D2 ... but forget the TD5.

[Adarewyr]

Of the cheap ones, and I assume you don't want to spend the $700+ for the nanocom .... I'd say no.

You can get generic ELM327 cheapie bluetooth OBD dongles for $10ish on the net, won't work. Brother got a cheap end Autel(before I got mine), don't work. He also got one of those scanguage devices(I think it's called that), don't work.

Note that they all work, in some way, on other cars incl on the V8 D2 ... but forget the TD5.

My brother was a mechanic before he moved to aus, was going to try fish his one out, he reckoned he has something to scam BMW with but for the effort of going to find it I will just get a nanotech one instead.... Good 2 hours of driving to dig through an old tool box

[Adarewyr]

not sure why i keep going nanotech in my head, nanocom.....

[AK83]

LOL! name don't matter ... nano is fine.

I dunno what you know about cars in general, but if you have a small amount of knowledge of cars in the USA, OBD knowledge will come a bit easier.

It's a minefield knowing what does and what doesn't work with OBD, but for earlier cars(up to about 2007ish) OBD was all over the place.
Some work, some don't.

If it was sold in the US, chances are that it will probably be ODB compliant. But this isn't always true.
Some mid 2000s cars can be(here in Aus) and some will be partially, and some not at all.

Bro has a 2005ish Falcon something like a BA maybe(can't recall, no interest). Connected to the Autel, some things work, some things not. One thing we could do was to change it to Police spec, and found out that doing that stopped the speedo from working.
I think may have 10 ECUs of some type, maybe one or two communicated.

Sister has a 2004 RAV, very common in the US, but Autel won't communicate at all. Again, it's another vehicle of "hmmmm" value to me, so don't care about it. Anyhow, B-I-L had to go to dealer to get the new throttle body to communicate with the car.

I have two Peugeots. 307HDi(2004) and 3008Hdi(2013) 307 was my dads, and I ended up with it. It gave me so much grief when he owned it. Not unrelaiable, just many ECU errors. Followed some Utube channels and found that tis Autel I bought worked with the 307 ... haha! .. NOT!
In the UK it does, but not here in Aus. Same year, same engine ... difference? Damned ECU! In the UK they use a Siemens ECU, here in Aus, they used a Bosch ECU ... and guess which one is NOT fully OBD? [bigrolf] Car can communicate, show data, just not affect any adjustments and installs.

The ELM327 dongle($10 off ebay) also reads the 307, no issue.

The issue is(or can be) exactly how reliable is the OBD tool you're connecting. I found many discrepancies on the 307 from what ODB tools were saying, and the eventual actual errors(DTC). In the end for the 307 I had to get a Peugeot software program to run on a laptop.

2013 3008, fully works with OBD scanners/reader and coincides with the Peugeot software too.

If all this sounds a bit confusing.. then you understand the point of this reply. It is when it comes to autos from this era... between 1996 and 2007(here in Aus).
US did OBD, then Euro did OBD, then Au did OBD. I think it's only from post 2007 when you get more reliable comms.

... so yeah ... for a D2(TD5) the most reliable option will be a nanocom.

[Tins]

An interesting take on OBD in the US.

https://youtu.be/kEedeUyubpg?si=89U1jBUHGKekQwrT

[Adarewyr]

I'm trying to purchase the nanocom now, just waiting for them to email me a bank account, and probably need to work out how I pay with New Zealand dollars instead of your Australian dollary-doos like I selected on the website

Once I have it, will it hopefully be able to give me some error codes so someone in here can explain whats gone wrong?

[discorevy]

As mentioned, check the inside fusebox, you'll have to remove it



Pull the internal fusebox, it's not just fuses, I was just using that terminology so you'd know what it was. Water runs down the back of them when you have leaks, and can cause your issues.

It's called an IDM ( Intelligent driver module )
If it can't be dried out, get another but make sure it suits your model.
You'll also need to leave ignition on for 5 minutes to re-establish comms, if it's not the original.

Also, if your ECU start with "MSB", someone may have "chipped" it, which may not have been resealed properly.




Once I have it, will it hopefully be able to give me some error codes so someone in here can explain whats gone wrong?

Some can only try.

[AK83]

I'm trying to purchase the nanocom now, just waiting for them to email me a bank account, and probably need to work out how I pay with New Zealand dollars instead of your Australian dollary-doos like I selected on the website

Once I have it, will it hopefully be able to give me some error codes so someone in here can explain whats gone wrong?

[thumbsupbig]

Start shopping for an SD card too. Don't go overboard with size, just in case it doesn't work.

IIRC nanocom claim up to 16Gb of memory. Most cards out of the box will be formatted FAT32, but no guarantee. nanocom needs FAT or FAT32 format.

Reason you will want an SD card is that you save log files to the card and then upload them for the knowledgeable folks to analyze them.

I think you can upload the log files via the USB cable from nanocom to your computer too. This info is Windoze specific. Not sure how it all works on the Apple ecosystem tho.

There used to be a lot of chatter about SD cards not working back in the day, I think it was due to the card brand type or something. Because of that, I'd say get one from a local retailer that are usually good for exchanges(eg. officeworks/JB blah blah) where you can easily swap it.

Last thing you need in your current situation is to wait weeks for the nanocom to come, and have tech issues trying to save data from it.
For error codes you can just take a shot of the screen, but to save stuff, you need the SD card.

[Adarewyr]

[thumbsupbig]

Start shopping for an SD card too. Don't go overboard with size, just in case it doesn't work.

IIRC nanocom claim up to 16Gb of memory. Most cards out of the box will be formatted FAT32, but no guarantee. nanocom needs FAT or FAT32 format.

Reason you will want an SD card is that you save log files to the card and then upload them for the knowledgeable folks to analyze them.

I think you can upload the log files via the USB cable from nanocom to your computer too. This info is Windoze specific. Not sure how it all works on the Apple ecosystem tho.

There used to be a lot of chatter about SD cards not working back in the day, I think it was due to the card brand type or something. Because of that, I'd say get one from a local retailer that are usually good for exchanges(eg. officeworks/JB blah blah) where you can easily swap it.

Last thing you need in your current situation is to wait weeks for the nanocom to come, and have tech issues trying to save data from it.
For error codes you can just take a shot of the screen, but to save stuff, you need the SD card.



I've got one of the world's most rugged lawn ornaments at the moment!

[Tins]

I'm putting this here as it is connected. After a few struggles mine drove last night Beautiful, but brief. Stopped after about 500 metres, and is sulking. I also have the M&S. However, I DO have a nanocom. In the autobox section I get the P1842 and 1843 codes. clearing the codes puts the M&S out for maybe a second. I believe the XYZ is working. I did have a low battery yesterday, but it charged fine and started the car instantly... All I have done is replace the wiring to the CPS. And the car has run many times since then. Cranks fine, I hear the fuel pump. Sigh. I will check battery voltage, but it makes no sense that it started many times, I was runnng it for at least 20 minutes to burp the cooling system, and then it just stopped.

Next stop has to be the fusebox, I guess. The sunroof has been leaking a fair bit in all the rain we have had... Must remember to clear the drains...

[Tins]

Fusebox is not corroded like last time, but it is wet. Not hugely, but I cleaned the drains yesterday, so maybe it was wetter before it could dry. In any case, Drying is happening.

Dunno if you can pick it up from this. Wet under the lower relays as well. Of course, I don't know yet if this is the problem, but it's definitely A problem.

194993

[Adarewyr]

Fusebox is not corroded like last time, but it is wet. Not hugely, but I cleaned the drains yesterday, so maybe it was wetter before it could dry. In any case, Drying is happening.

Dunno if you can pick it up from this. Wet under the lower relays as well. Of course, I don't know yet if this is the problem, but it's definitely A problem.

194993

I'll check this on mine tomorrow, only noticed my leak because water was dripping out of the plastics near the fuses onto my legs.... so I assume i will have this too, the downside for me is I don't even get a sunroof and still get the leaks

[Tins]

I'll check this on mine tomorrow, only noticed my leak because water was dripping out of the plastics near the fuses onto my legs.... so I assume i will have this too, the downside for me is I don't even get a sunroof and still get the leaks
Do you have roof rails?

I have uploaded some info on water ingress in the Files(New) section.

[Tins]

The fusebox is fairly easy, but a touch fiddly. It is secured by one nut at the top. It then lifts out of a socket at the bottom. As you pull it towards you you will be able to release the plugs as they present themselves. Don't worry, they are all different so you can't muddle them up. Once it is out you will need to release the clips around the perimeter. Not hard, but it likes to come apart evenly. Then, to actually release the PCB to get to the other side you simply remove all the fuses and relays. I took a pic so I don't have to check each fuse as I replace it. No need to remove the SRS fuse under the yellow protector

Put it back in reverse order. And cross your fingers.

[Tins]

Did I mention the swear jar you may need when you contemplate the designers who made the harnesses so short?

[Tins]

Put my fusebox back in, reconnected the batt and turned on the key... M&S flashing.. OK, clear the codes. [bigsad]

Looked around at the wiring and wondering if there was enough diesel in the tank to burn the thing, and I noticed an issue with the CPS wiring. No, not the wiring I fixed, it's fine, but not quite where I left it. I suppose it's been loose for a while...

194994194995194996

What surprises me is that previously when I have had a CPS fault the MIL came on. Not this time. Learn something new every day, which is the purpose of owning a Land Rover...

Now, where is the spare?

[Tins]

Now, where is the spare?


Here.. Now, I wonder if it works...

194997

[Tins]

Short answer is yes. But the codes and M&S are still present.Reason I'm posting on this thread is that A said that a faulty CPS would throw the MIL. Clearly I was wrong, it doesn't always. It also shows that in chasing one problem, topside switch, I have created another. Sigh. Car starts ok now, just need to track down the CAN issue.

[shack]

What CAN fault is showing?

[Tins]

What CAN fault is showing?

P1843 CAN timeout monitoring, and P1842, CAN level monitoring..

And now it won't start again.

[shack]

CAN level monitoring.

Highly unlikely to be true, you would need the wrong TCU fitted.

It's most likely a phantom fault from another issue, such as low voltage while cranking, a failed TCU or engine ECU or wiring problem.

Timeout monitoring is usually because of low battery voltage or the ignition powered on with the engine ECU plugged in.

Or.... if your have a NNN ECU, flashing the ECU with a new firmware.

Cheers

[Tins]

Thanks, James. No, it's MSB. Wiring is possibly the issue, it's been a bit problematic. I did have a low voltage event, but it appears to be ok, and the fault returns without actually cranking, but I guess the combination of a few things, and the code being set even though the nano clears it, could all be contributing. Going out to check battery level even though it cranks fine. I know they are sensitive to voltage.

One thing I do not have a spare of is the ECU. Question as a follow up. When the nano says it has learned the security code, Does it store it on the device? It said that even without an SD card present.

[shack]

It's not the nano that has saved the security code, it's probably badly worded.

From memory it's saved in the serial EEPROM in the engine ECU.

You can clear the fault with the engine running from memory, see if it comes back while still running.

It's quite possible the TCU is failing.

If you have another from ANY automatic D2, you can simply swap them to check.

[Tins]

MM says the batt is at 12.3v, nano says it's 12.0. ?Got it on charge in any case. I am getting an occasional position switch monitoring fault, but no sign of that in the odo or selector quadrant. The security horn, which I had never heard until Sunday, sounds when I put the car in N, running or not.

Apologies to the OP, but I don't think I'm hijacking his thread, we are facing similar issues and we could both learn.

[Adarewyr]

I wonder if this could be causing me any issues?

[Tins]

3257511 (tel:3257511)[/URL]]I wonder if this could be causing me any issues?
Oh yes indeed it could. It’s worse than mine was, and I thought mine was possessed and needed an exorcist.
If you get some contact cleaner or IPA and some cotton buds you can clean it up. I wouldn’t use anything stronger.
You can then examine the pcb tracks for any damage. PCBs are repairable up to a point. Have a good look around the various chips and capacitors as well, they don’t like corrosion either.

[Adarewyr]

Oh yes indeed it could. It’s worse than mine was, and I thought mine was possessed and needed an exorcist.
If you get some contact cleaner or IPA and some cotton buds you can clean it up. I wouldn’t use anything stronger.

I used contact cleaner and a toothbrush, probably take it back apart and use some cotton buds I didn't even think of them, if that is what's causing my issues will it still need codes cleared to be able to work? I have paid for the nanocom but I assume that will be a month or so out either way.... I am pretty sure that corrosion was right around where the fuse you guys wanted me to check was as well so could definitely be the culprit

[Tins]

CAN level monitoring.

Highly unlikely to be true, you would need the wrong TCU fitted.

It's most likely a phantom fault from another issue, such as low voltage while cranking, a failed TCU or engine ECU or wiring problem.

Timeout monitoring is usually because of low battery voltage or the ignition powered on with the engine ECU


Cheers
I suppose I should check the TCU as well. The car did get a fair bit of water in it. BCU as well I guess.

[Tins]

I used contact cleaner and a toothbrush, probably take it back apart and use some cotton buds I didn't even think of them, if that is what's causing my issues will it still need codes cleared to be able to work? I have paid for the nanocom but I assume that will be a month or so out either way.... I am pretty sure that corrosion was right around where the fuse you guys wanted me to check was as well so could definitely be the culprit
Nanocom probably won’t take that long to arrive. I have a guide to its use somewhere an I will post it in the files section. People like Shack and sierafery are the gurus though.
I don’t know about the codes because I don’t know which ones you have, but I think they will need to be cleared if it’s anything like mine is atm.
Good luck.

[Tins]

It's not the nano that has saved the security code, it's probably badly worded.

From memory it's saved in the serial EEPROM in the engine ECU.

You can clear the fault with the engine running from memory, see if it comes back while still running.

It's quite possible the TCU is failing.

If you have another from ANY automatic D2, you can simply swap them to check.
Thanks. I do have one from the same MY.

[Adarewyr]

Hey guys does anyone have any tips for resealing the windscreen? I believe the seal doesn't just come off to let me seal a good bead right onto the windscreen/body? If that's the case I guess it's just pump all the goo into the back of the seal, and then lift the bottom of the seal up and get that too to stop capillary from sucking water back up too? I'm a roofer so this should be my domain but I hate using sealant, it gets everywhere

[Tins]

FYI. there's a guy, Sean Scott, on the AULRO FB group selling a nearly new Nanocom, D2 TD5, $650. If you haven't already ordered one.

[Tins]

I'm a roofer so this should be my domain but I hate using sealant, it gets everywhere

Not wrong. My son did a roofing apprenticeship. Still find that goop, and bloody screws, 15 years later.

Best way to reseal the screen is to remove it and put it back in. Trouble with that is they usually break coming out..... Bloke near me simply replaced it, and he's a landy nut so it was less than $300. Of course, he's near me, not you.

[Adarewyr]

Hey guys, I have my nanocom finally, took me a month or so to work out how to pay them, and then shipped from Cyprus to New Zealand in two and a half days......

I have tried to scan the truck but am now having issues with holding charge on my battery, so will replace tomorrow and see what happens, but it only found one error code for some air sensor which I have cleared. Should it have given me an error code for the M and S lights as well, or is that not going to show because of the low battery, I had it hooked up to my work truck to try and jump start it but I don't know if that would be enough

[Tins]

M&S codes will be stored in the TCU. When you are in the D2 page you will need to scroll across one page to the D2 Autobox section and check for codes in there.

D2s hate low battery voltage. Get it fully charged and scan for codes again. Disconnecting the battery for a minute might help.

I would really like to know what codes you get. I have decided to park mine up for a while and do a few things that are needed. But obviously I want it to go.

[Adarewyr]

M&S codes will be stored in the TCU. When you are in the D2 page you will need to scroll across one page to the D2 Autobox section and check for codes in there.

D2s hate low battery voltage. Get it fully charged and scan for codes again. Disconnecting the battery for a minute might help.

I would really like to know what codes you get. I have decided to park mine up for a while and do a few things that are needed. But obviously I want it to go.

Battery replacement tomorrow, I charged it up and then reconnected it to the charger a day later and it was reading at half charged, so I'm going to just assume a bad battery. Sadly my Navara one is half the size and my old trucks is also flat .... Poor things been parked for a few months

[Adarewyr]

Transmission codes were p1842 and p1843 can time out monitoring and can level monitoring, where do we think I go next?

[Tins]

I reckon the M&S lights and those codes are a furphy. The CAN error won't prevent starting. I spent some time down that rabbit hole and lost sight of the bigger picture. I will link to some of sierafery's posts on my thread, because he is someone to listen to on this stuff. Not the only one by any means though.

You can follow me down various branches of rabbit holes (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2-a/302866-d2-can-system-13.html) if you like. Might stop you from making the same mistakes....

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2-a/302866-d2-can-system-6.html#post3258106
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2-a/302866-d2-can-system-6.html#post3258128

[shack]

Transmission codes were p1842 and p1843 can time out monitoring and can level monitoring, where do we think I go next?Those errors are most likely due to a loss of communication while cranking, caused by a failing battery, fairly common fault.

There are a number of faults than can get set by the TCU, and whilst it's handy to know there is a problem by seeing the M & S flashing, often the fault isn't serious enough to require action. I've thought of turning them off so the user doesn't see them, but can still be retrieved by a diagnostic tool.

[Adarewyr]

Those errors are most likely due to a loss of communication while cranking, caused by a failing battery, fairly common fault.

There are a number of faults than can get set by the TCU, and whilst it's handy to know there is a problem by seeing the M & S flashing, often the fault isn't serious enough to require action. I've thought of turning them off so the user doesn't see them, but can still be retrieved by a diagnostic tool.

Shouldn't that be sorted by a jump start though? I couldn't get a new battery today locally so will have to order one online and hope it shows up next week...

Recharged my battery but still no fuel pump with the key in ignition

[Adarewyr]

Nano is also showing 0 engine rpm when cranking, am I right in thinking someone said that would mean CPS?

[shack]

A jump start should cure the power issues but it won't extinguish the lights, I think the car has to start with proper power levels once and then the lights will go out after the engine is considered to be "running".

Can you post a short video of your dash as you turn the ignition on?

[Tins]

Nano is also showing 0 engine rpm when cranking, am I right in thinking someone said that would mean CPS?
Yes, but… can be oil at the red plug etc. Can be the ECU itself.
if you have a multimeter you can test the CPS, kinda. Connect the leads to the sensor, set the meter to low voltage and wave something iron past the magnet. I suppose you could also connect the leads to pins 13 and 36 of the red plug, try cranking, and look then. One problem I had with the CPS was the wiring. The underbonnet temperature and the possibility of oil can make it very brittle. The signal needs to be strong. I also found that the pins at the red plug had spread a little and contact was not good.
if you find any issues with the wires then you need to replace them with shielded flex or the “noise “ from the starter will interfere with the signal.

[Tins]

I don't know about this, because it may have been a fluke, but my fuel pump wasn't working either... well, I don't hear so good. But I pulled the relay and swapped it and the pump fired up. The engine would then kick when I cranked, but still no start. Seemed I had two or more issues, probably due to the low voltage cranking that started this whole saga for me.

Mine is parked up to get a few other things sorted while it's "resting". It just had its 25th birthday, after all. My 26th was 44 years ago, but I seem to remember needing a lie down afterwards.

[Adarewyr]

I'm having a really hard time locating the cps

[Adarewyr]

Located and cleaned it, but still no luck sadly. Would your guys next step be a replacement sensor?

[Tins]

I'm having a really hard time locating the cps

Easy on a Defender, awkward on a D2. I don't have a pic, but if you look down past the intake manifold to the bellhousing it is there. You can really own access it from the top. It has a simple plug, two wires, and is secured by one bolt. It is on the same side, and at about the same level, as the starter motor. If it's original, the wires are Pink/black and white/blue.

195262

[AK83]

Above starter motor on the ENGINE bellhousing area.
It is hard to see and get too. Not impossible, like the fuel pressure regulator .. just nearly as impossible! [biggrin]

[Tins]

Located and cleaned it, but still no luck sadly. Would your guys next step be a replacement sensor?

I would check it first, if you have a multimeter. New ones, non genuine, are around $100 here. I would also pay close attention to the wiring. The sensors do fail, but they are pretty robust. Mine fell to bits, but it still works. The coil inside is really the only thing, and it shouldn't have issues, but this is a Disco we are talking about. Continuity between connector 168 and pins 13 and 36 at the red plug is vital,
195263

If you have a wrecker near you, there are some Jag diesels that use a similar sensor. IIRC the plug is different, but they do work.

[Adarewyr]

Am I right in thinking this is it? Took it out and gave a good clean, was covered in oil and muck

Please forgive the state of my hands

[Adarewyr]

I would check it first, if you have a multimeter. New ones, non genuine, are around $100 here. I would also pay close attention to the wiring. The sensors do fail, but they are pretty robust. Mine fell to bits, but it still works. The coil inside is really the only thing, and it shouldn't have issues, but this is a Disco we are talking about. Continuity between connector 168 and pins 13 and 36 at the red plug is vital,
195263

If you have a wrecker near you, there are some Jag diesels that use a similar sensor. IIRC the plug is different, but they do work.

I'll remove it again and try this in a little, I have a multi meter but wouldn't say I know how to use it

[Adarewyr]

I guess can anyone explain the no fuel pump? The starter wouldn't even be going when the key is just on accessory and normally that would let the fuel pump prime itself.

Testing hte fuel pump on the nano I can hear it briefly, but no engagement when the key is used

[AK83]

do the proper prime test:
(assuming you don't know this test)
ign on, and immediately press accelerator pedal 5 times. has to be quick(about 5 sec).
MIL will come on flashing and you will hear the pump this time.
This mode will operate for about 5 mins or so, sometimes feel longer! ... but for sure you will hear it.

From my experience, is that if your fuel pump is really good, you won't obviously hear it all the time. You may hear some whoosing of the fuel through the lines or something.

My D2a, can't hear it at all once the fuel shooshing has gone.
Last week my daughter was here. we went driving and she drove all the time. ie. I was pass, not driver.
She's on Ps, and rear P fell off all the time. She's in drivers seat, ign on and I can hear the pump whirring after the whoos/shoosh -ing. Could be my hearing going really bad now, but usually I can't.

D2, I can hear a bit. Sometimes I have to wait about 10(or more) sec for it to start, but for sure I can hear this pump, more so than the D2a with ign on.

Maybe pump noise is a clue to ageing pump or something. (dunno).
But I can hear D2 pump whirring(not just whooshing) and it's the hard starter.
D2a is harder to hear(at the driver seat) and really only obvious at the rear cargo area, and it starts (feels like) before you hit the starter part of the key routine.

[Tins]

do the proper prime test:
(assuming you don't know this test)
ign on, and immediately press accelerator pedal 5 times. has to be quick(about 5 sec).
MIL will come on flashing and you will hear the pump this time.
This mode will operate for about 5 mins or so, sometimes feel longer! ... but for sure you will hear it.



Doing this is probably necessary if you have been trying to start it a lot. Also, with all the mucking around, and rough running once when it did start, the inertia switch tripped. Pump won't work then.

[Adarewyr]

do the proper prime test:
(assuming you don't know this test)
ign on, and immediately press accelerator pedal 5 times. has to be quick(about 5 sec).
MIL will come on flashing and you will hear the pump this time.
This mode will operate for about 5 mins or so, sometimes feel longer! ... but for sure you will hear it.

From my experience, is that if your fuel pump is really good, you won't obviously hear it all the time. You may hear some whoosing of the fuel through the lines or something.

My D2a, can't hear it at all once the fuel shooshing has gone.
Last week my daughter was here. we went driving and she drove all the time. ie. I was pass, not driver.
She's on Ps, and rear P fell off all the time. She's in drivers seat, ign on and I can hear the pump whirring after the whoos/shoosh -ing. Could be my hearing going really bad now, but usually I can't.

D2, I can hear a bit. Sometimes I have to wait about 10(or more) sec for it to start, but for sure I can hear this pump, more so than the D2a with ign on.

Maybe pump noise is a clue to ageing pump or something. (dunno).
But I can hear D2 pump whirring(not just whooshing) and it's the hard starter.
D2a is harder to hear(at the driver seat) and really only obvious at the rear cargo area, and it starts (feels like) before you hit the starter part of the key routine.


I hear a quick whoosh the same as with the test button on the nano but it doesn't start up properly like it did before the issues started

[Adarewyr]

This whole thing keeps confusing me more and more, I recleaned the ECU plugs and got some more junk out of it, and now I get my very distinct fuel pump noise, but sadly still no start

Have checked fuses and inertia switch but still no luck, also don't quite understand how to test the CPS, would I take the sensor itself out and just be testing the wires to see if it is getting voltage?

[Tins]

Have checked fuses and inertia switch but still no luck, also don't quite understand how to test the CPS, would I take the sensor itself out and just be testing the wires to see if it is getting voltage?

No. The CPS will generate voltage, albeit quite low. Applying voltage to it will likely burn it out. If you have a multimeter set it to the lowest voltage reading it has. I'm not sure if it matters if you select AC or DC, so try both. Connect the probes to the wires coming from the sensor and wave a tool or bolt back and forth past the little protrusion. It needs to be a ferrous metal thing, like steel or iron, and it also needs to be close, but not touching. If the meter shows some voltage as you do this the sensor is likely OK.
Sounds complicated but it isn't

[Tins]

I found this. It might help. Click the watch on yt thing.


https://youtu.be/KmhQcM68VQE?si=xutTwrfvXGkeYMX1

[Adarewyr]

I've tried this with the help of a 3 year old and I was getting voltage spikes on the meter, wasn't easy to keep the prongs in place and direct her to put a screw near the tip but I want to say the CPS is working as it should, and i've cleaned all the gunk out of it, might just double check the wires into it, although I cannot get them to a spot I can actually see for visual inspection

[Tins]

Put the multimeter into ohms, or even better diode check if it has it. Check for continuity between the circuit plug at the sensor and pins 13 and 36 at the red plug.

[Adarewyr]

Put the multimeter into ohms, or even better diode check if it has it. Check for continuity between the circuit plug at the sensor and pins 13 and 36 at the red plug.

The ohm setting was giving me a reading and it definitely reacts to the metal... So I assume the CPS isn't my issue, where to next.... I'm dreading pulling the interior to check the cable over the top of the trans that I've seen mentioned a few times, if anyone wants to send me in a different direction next id appreciate it! We are now no start, m and s but we have fuel pump noise!

[shack]

Can you do a quick write up of what you have done and tried? I honestly haven't got the time or energy to read the whole thread again, and I can't remember what was written..

[Tins]

Get it running first, before worrying about the trans wiring.

[Adarewyr]

Can you do a quick write up of what you have done and tried? I honestly haven't got the time or energy to read the whole thread again, and I can't remember what was written..

The ECU doesn't look oily,
New battery,
Cleaned and checked resistance on the CPS sensor, not the wiring
Checked all the fuses in engine bay and in the fuse box inside the cabin
Tried pumping the accelerator to prime fuel pump which is now working since cleaning the CPS

Fault codes p1842/p1843

Still shows 0rpm on the nano, the only engine fault code is an ambient temperature fault I believe

Think this is about all I've tried so far, my brother is a mechanic and reckons any fault on CAN would be more than just a wiring issue, and be cause to take the truck to an auto sparky

[shack]

Ok...

Firstly, completely ignore the CAN faults, it's a comms issue with the TCU, the engine will run fine with CAN faults, in fact even the auto will still operate to some degree with the TCU unplugged altogether.

A TD5 is a pretty basic engine.

Only a few things are required for it to operate, so assuming that the enginee is mechanically ok, we can list the other prerequisites.

1. ECUs. A TD5 only needs the engine controller and the BCU to be functioning properly to run, the BCU Is only needed to satisfy the immobiliser. Note also the inertia switch will prevent running.

No other controller will prevent the engine from starting and running.


2. Sensors. A TD5 will at the very least run with only the CPS functioning, no other sensors are needed, not the MAF not the MAP/IAT not the AAT not coolant sensor or fuel temp sensor TPS or anything else.

I can't remember if the tacho registers any rpm when cranking, it might.

3. A functioning fuel pump and NO air in the system.
If the system has been breached in any way, there could be air in it, and they can be a little difficult to bleed at times - and can take several purge cycles along with holding the accelerator flat to the floor after this whilst cranking the engine to get them to fire.

Again, the CAN faults can simply be ignored until after you get the engine running, there's a 90% chance it was low battery that caused them, and I think I explained above somewhere how they work.

So... If the car won't start, one of the above situations is the problem.

Of course a failed ECU or damaged wiring can be the cause of one of the above situations.


Check if the engine ECU is immobilised using the Nanocom.

Test the injectors with the Nanocom and listen to see if you can hear them clicking.

Do multiple purge cycles.

Other than that, someone else may come up with an idea.

[Adarewyr]

Ok...

Firstly, completely ignore the CAN faults, it's a comms issue with the TCU, the engine will run fine with CAN faults, in fact even the auto will still operate to some degree with the TCU unplugged altogether.

A TD5 is a pretty basic engine.

Only a few things are required for it to operate, so assuming that the enginee is mechanically ok, we can list the other prerequisites.

1. ECUs. A TD5 only needs the engine controller and the BCU to be functioning properly to run, the BCU Is only needed to satisfy the immobiliser. Note also the inertia switch will prevent running.

No other controller will prevent the engine from starting and running.


2. Sensors. A TD5 will at the very least run with only the CPS functioning, no other sensors are needed, not the MAF not the MAP/IAT not the AAT not coolant sensor or fuel temp sensor TPS or anything else.

I can't remember if the tacho registers any rpm when cranking, it might.

3. A functioning fuel pump and NO air in the system.
If the system has been breached in any way, there could be air in it, and they can be a little difficult to bleed at times - and can take several purge cycles along with holding the accelerator flat to the floor after this whilst cranking the engine to get them to fire.

Again, the CAN faults can simply be ignored until after you get the engine running, there's a 90% chance it was low battery that caused them, and I think I explained above somewhere how they work.

So... If the car won't start, one of the above situations is the problem.

Of course a failed ECU or damaged wiring can be the cause of one of the above situations.


Check if the engine ECU is immobilised using the Nanocom.

Test the injectors with the Nanocom and listen to see if you can hear them clicking.

Do multiple purge cycles.

Other than that, someone else may come up with an idea.

I'll look more into these again tonight, I've got 3 spare ECU that I've been told 2/3 should run perfectly so I'll test them and play around a little more on the nano.

Really appreciate all the help you guys have offered as well, before I got the disco I didn't do much more than oil changes so I'm learning on the fly with all this

[Tins]

Thanks for the clarity, James. It’s easy to get sidetracked by the fault codes and get too far into the problem. I have been down this path myself with mine. Ok, I will wind up with a whole bunch of tidied up wiring, which I have been meaning to do for years, so it has its benefits, but when the thing actually starts I won’t know what it was.

[Adarewyr]

Disco might be at the back of the line, may have possibly drowned my work truck this afternoon....

[Tins]

Disco might be at the back of the line, may have possibly drowned my work truck this afternoon....
Oops. Hope the snorkel is sealed.

[Adarewyr]

Oops. Hope the snorkel is sealed.

Airbox filled eventually but it was a half hour or more under water, engine runs but all the electronics around it aren't happy. Stuck in 4L with the rear locked st the moment, windows down and the window motors have gone too! That hole is usually ankle deep!

[Adarewyr]

Just had the discovery start, I was playing in the bcu security part of my nano and I clicked on crank "on" and then turned my key and the truck started, ran for a few seconds and then died. This also turned all the lights off on my dash and reset the odo to 0.0km. once I left the menu it reset the dash back to normal but no luck starting since ... Any ideas or suggestions? I've been using a Google guide to reprime the fuel Incase it has had any air get in but I believe the tank is almost full as it was filled up the day it originally died

Also, Merry Christmas to you all!

[AK83]

If it ran for a few seconds, then died, I think your fuel system is fine.

You have air when it struggles and stutters, but just can't get over the line to actually start... so don't get too focused on something that isn't the problem.

You have another problem(what I got no idea).

But now that you have the nanocom, go back to the settings, alarm-other and turn off passive immobiliser. And while there set EKA to simple low numbers, that setting is in utility section .. etc.

I'm thinking, maybe the car is immobilised(can happen with low batt), BUT! ... the led indicator option has been disabled, and so you can't see if it's immobilised. SO check the LED status, and make sure it's enabled too.

Had that problem with the D2 when my brother owned it, and when batt was suss once upon a time ... it locked us out where it wouldn't start, etc.
Once we got the nanocom, basically the first thing I did was to disable the immobiliser, and set EKA to 1,1,1,1. That was the other problem. he found the EKA, and it had stupid numbers like 11 and 8 in there .. so tedious.
But, we did get it back up once that was done.
From then(7 or 8 years back now) I've had super low battery volts in it, as in low 10s but since the immob has been disabled, have never had that annoying no start problem.

EDIT: and a note to remember too.. low battery voltage pretty much always causes problems in D2 with immobiliser, and more important is to understand that low battery voltage doesn't just mean the battery had drained a bit and gave you grief.
You may well have 'good voltage' in the battery(like I did in my SSB battery a year or so ago) .. showing 12.1v .. but no way that battery would crank a car. Was so badly weak, it barely cranked my easy to start ride on mower!.
On the tester it shows 90-ish CCA.
So, while it showed 12.1v static, on trying to start the engine, it dipped down to 8v when under stress. 8v .. TD5 ... I dare say that would have been an instant immobilisation event in the D2. Keep this in mind when you charge a battery after a deep depletion.
It could be terminally weak, but show ok value with a multimeter.

[Tins]

This also turned all the lights off on my dash and reset the odo to 0.0km. once I left the menu it reset the dash back to normal

That happens. Freaked me out when I first saw it, but it's fine.

[shack]

To the OP.

Whilst I have no idea what is wrong with your vehicle, I just tried a D2 here and no matter how long you crank it without starting, the tacho doesn't shift, so watching the tacho while cranking is NOT a valid test of the CPS.

It's possible you have a failed BCU or IDM.

Is your car an early or late TD5?

I.e. MSB or NNN ECU?

[Adarewyr]

Immobilizer is all turned off, when I say the truck ran is spluttered but definitely did fire for one to two seconds and then has spluttered but not properly started 2-3 more times randomly.

Would the fuel line take on air if the truck has been cranking while the fuel pump isn't working?

[Adarewyr]

To the OP.

Whilst I have no idea what is wrong with your vehicle, I just tried a D2 here and no matter how long you crank it without starting, the tacho doesn't shift, so watching the tacho while cranking is NOT a valid test of the CPS.

It's possible you have a failed BCU or IDM.

Is your car an early or late TD5?

I.e. MSB or NNN ECU?

Msb ECU

[AK83]

I mucked about a bit ... and embarrassingly, got a non starting D2a, where nothing wrong before!

When you cranked the engine, it started, and still assuming you're doesn't start, but mine does/should ... I had the 'sec or two of running', then it stopped.
Keep in mind there is nothing wrong with my D2s, so this sec of running, then stop seems to be normal.

Also note, when you're in the BCU section of nanocom and you select any of the menus, after selecting one of the menus, the 0 odo is normal .. so nothing wrong.
Once you get out of the BCU menu and back to the first page (where it has the Engine BCU SLABS etc menu items) a few sec later the dash will return to normal.

So what happened.
After the crank and start for a sec event, I got back out of the nanocom menus and to the main page dash was normal, I cranked to start and I heard bong bong, and I suddenly got M&S flashing and no start.

I have to keep reminding here too, before mucking about with the nanocom on the D2a, car had no issues, no faults, nothing. Starting is, for lack of a better term .. pre-emptive. Feels like it starts as soon as you hit the crank.
Even D2 needs a half sec to actually start, D2a starts (what feels like) with immediacy.

But now I'm in the M&S and non starting camp.

Went through some of the menus to figure out whats gone wrong and found:

One time, I got into the Autobox menu and found a fault. "CAN error ..." sorry can't recall it verbatim. Never had this before, but haven't needed to check as D2a has been perfect for a year. Last time I used nanocom on D2a about a year ago, when I disabled immob, set EKA, and did other general things. I did one other time connect to set a new key.
So, I can't say if I caused the CAN error with this testing, or it's been there for a while.
My feeling is I caused it now, and reason is, I cleared the fault, it cleared, on shutting down nanocom and key out of ign and then back in, M&S was off and TD5 started like normal.

The saying fool me once, fool me twice doesn't appear to mean anything to me because after this, I had to get back in and do more damage didn't I ... [bigrolf]

Yep! same problem, from same process, just different fault now in the autobox system. Some position error message. Cleared that, all off again but this time still non start and M&S on.
(this is why I'm not 100% sure if I caused the previous CAN error problem in the trans menu, or if it was an old fault or what).

Anyhow this one wasn't so easily fixed like the CAN error clear part before.
This was all happening in the last 30-60 mins.
But now I looked for other faults/issues, etc.
At one point I also got 3 amigos showing while cranking. NO M&S lights, just amigos. ign off and back on, and sitting for a sec or two M&S are on again.
So into the SLABS menu.

I'm not so cluey on what all the settings there mean, I kind of guess, but found that the ECU calibration was set to disabled. no idea why, never been touched, but that what I saw. Also, Test status was enabled.
Not sure if this means to be able to test the SLABS ecu, or does it mean 'self testing' or whatever .. no sure how to set that one, but for sure ECU calibration should be set to enabled was my thinking.
Doing that, nancom back to main page, dash back to normal status(ie. not 0 odo) key off and out and try starting again and bingo .. D2a back up and running.

From that mucking about, my feeling is something had borked the ECU environment with your low battery event, they may have reset, timed out, back to factory settings(ie. maybe transit mode) .. or whatever....
So I reckon go through ALL the menus, clear all faults, set any stuff to what you feel would be normal running situations(ie. not disabled if it makes sense to be enabled) .. etc.

With the sec or so start event, I think your fuel system may be fine. Like Shack said, tacho doesn't register on engine cranking, BUT nanocom in instruments section(or mode) will. I see about 200(ish), maybe 150RPM at one stage as battery was getting down to high 11 volt territory. If you want to confirm RPMs on crank, use nanocom, not dash.
Nanocom is a slow beast, can take a few sec to do it's thing .. patience. That is, if you're in the BCU with the 0 odo situation, back out of the nanocom back to the first page(in the Discovery 2 menu) and wait for the dash to come back.
If you have to adjust anything in the SLABS menu(ie. if your ECU is set to disabled calibration like mine did) ... you have to go to the next page and hit the write settings button. It will display this msg to remove key and wait 60 sec or something .. follow prompts.

Sorry for the tedious reply, but I really think all your issues are just low volt ECU problems and hope that the nanocom will sort them all if you just go through them all.

[shack]

Msb ECUI was going to suggest that I could turn them immo off for you if it was a NNN, but the MSB is a bit harder to do remotely!

[Adarewyr]

I'll go through all the menus and make sure it's all set correctly, did that impact your fuel pump at all, mine has stopped starting with truck and only goes when you depress the pedal 5 times.
Hopefully it's something simple on the nano and I can get it going

I was reading a post by sierafairy or whatever it is I hope I've not butchered that, where he tested the MV of fuse 10 to check if the pump was doing HP fuel or just LP and I couldn't get any readings on the fuse, but if the immobilizer is stopping fuel pump then I guess it's not really worth testing it as the pump isn't being allowed to operate

[Adarewyr]

Okay, the td5 menu says the ECU is new, I have swapped between 4 ECU while trying to sort this and the ECU security status is immobilized, so I think we are on the right track ... Now just to turn the immobilizer off

[Adarewyr]

Ecu is now set as robust, my other concerns are the tuel tune is "nose left" ECu part number is "no flash" and homologation is "noho" fuel used and temp is disabled

I think changing ECU may have messed with my injector codes? When they are tested using nano I get a click out of each injector but the code that shows in the menu is 5 letters not 4 with a number to finish which Google reckons is the way it should be

[AK83]

Fuel pump whrrs for a while with ign on, but then goes quiet.

Even tho I got to the stage where i had no starts, and M&S and all that, every time ign was turned to on, same thing .. whrrr then quiet.

Maybe 10sec, maybe more, maybe less .. my guess was 10sec, but not really a point i was taking note of.
D2 on the other hand seems more quiet than D2a(the one I borked). Still can hear, just less so than D2a then again after some time it goes quiet too. Maybe more of a hiss kind of whir than a whirrry kind of whir.
Could be the pump may be on the way to heaven, but you have to get to a point where it will at least try to start. And if you hear it with the prime sequence going, then at the least it's kind'a working.

IIRC sieraferry says you should see about 20(ish)mV on that fuse for the pump. I've tried that, and maybe my multimeters are dead out, but max I've seen is about mid teens.
This went for 3 TD5s, mine and nephews over the past couple of years. Nephew had pump problems, that didnt' end up being pump problems, and both mine are OK in how they start and run. D2 not perfect starting, but no real problem. D2a I'd say perfect the way it starts.

And for sure, changed ecu will mean wrong injector codes, until you set them, but should still start .. maybe just just rough running. If not start then a spluttery almost start kind of start.

And I think I didn't mention that after I started the engine when in the security inputs screen and it stops a sec later, where it has the crank on/off setting, I did use that 'on' setting to get engine started again too. I think with the SLABS weird settings non start.

Just keep in mind not to try starting until you're out of the sub menus and into the first or second main(ie. the TD5 main section) at the least, and I always turned off the nanocom, never unplugged whilst in any of the menus too.

Going by the amount of time taken to release it's hold on the dash cluster, it may be doing something in the background. if it is, this could cause problems I 'spose too.

[shack]

Ecu is now set as robust, my other concerns are the tuel tune is "nose left" ECu part number is "no flash" and homologation is "noho" fuel used and temp is disabled

I think changing ECU may have messed with my injector codes? When they are tested using nano I get a click out of each injector but the code that shows in the menu is 5 letters not 4 with a number to finish which Google reckons is the way it should beI'll address this later, but there are definitely some errors with the ECU from what you are saying, and they cannot be fixed on that ECU with a Nanocom.

[Adarewyr]

I'll address this later, but there are definitely some errors with the ECU from what you are saying, and they cannot be fixed on that ECU with a Nanocom.

I'll try playing around with a new ECU and see if I can get one to sit with better settings?

[Adarewyr]

We are going! I believe it was an ECU problem, I needed a new ECU and then to sync the ECU to the bcu, you guys are all incredibly helpful! If you're ever in New Zealand I owe you guys MANY beers

[AK83]

Good stuff ... see Xmas does bring miracles! [biggrin]
So now you understand the importance of why battery needs to be good .. all along it was low volts causing ECU reset, or deset(if that's a word) or misset(yeah, I just keep making up words [biggrin])

If you have the time/patience, would be good to have a voltmeter attached somehwere to keep an eye on the battery, so that if you see low battery .. you DON'T start it. Car can tolerate low volts, but only if you don't try to start it.

I kind of have this issue in my D2. I made a twin batt bracket for the D2(when D2 used to be my brothers). Installed 2 Optima batteries. This was back in 2017. Batteries were good. Yellow for winch(and aux power), red for starting.
Redarc isolator, with the button switch for connecting when main was low setup.

Brother has a 3D printer and printed up a dash panel thing to replace the coin(or ash) tray and I fitted two USB(C and A) plus voltmeter doodads to it. Less than a week (now) red top will drop to maybe 11.9 ish volts .. yellow is totally studded where it drops to below 10 many times. Still charge OK, just won't hold it for long. I either have to drive the D2 every so often or put it on a charger of some kind. I can see that when starting the redtop will drop to low 10s even high 9's sometimes, but it starts.
A few times(ambients down to 0 or less) I noticed that it's at mid 11s or whatever ... don't even think about it .. get charger and use another car.

This type of USB/voltmeter (https://ebay.us/m/zd5enx) .... the link is just for illustrative purposes, it's similar to what I have. You can see a button to turn it off if you ever want too(and I do). If you do find this thing interesting/useful I recommend to get either red or blue display. the green ones far too bright for dark night driving situations. The on/off button turns it all off, no display, no charging. And they won't drain your battery. And they're not super accurate(or may or may not be). Some can be, some not so much, but it's just an indicator that battery has about X volts ... maybe a decimal place off in some instances.

Anyhow... good to hear success ... and now .... Tins turn.

[shack]

We are going! I believe it was an ECU problem, I needed a new ECU and then to sync the ECU to the bcu, you guys are all incredibly helpful! If you're ever in New Zealand I owe you guys MANY beersThat's good, they can be frustrating at times.

Just on the above errors.

All TD5 D2 MSB engine ECUs come with 3 tunes on them from factory, although one isn't a usable tube.

The Defender ones do not.

The different tunes can be selected with a simple diagnostic request, which the Nanocom cannot do.

As mentioned, one of the available tunes isn't really usable, it's possibly set to that at factory when a replacement ECU is ordered, the dealer would fit it, then they would use their diag gear to set it up.

I'm guessing they are set this way so the dealer has to adjust them and make sure they have the correct tune selected.

I think the unusable /factory default tune is:

No homologation

No flash.

NOSELECT.

Or something like like that, I really can't remember.

I also can't remember whether the engine will start with these settings.

[Tins]

The different tunes can be selected with a simple diagnostic request, which the Nanocom cannot do.

.

If the Nanocom can't, what can? Apart from TestBook that is. Few have one of those apart from LR, and they don't care about D2s.

[Tins]

And, did the M&S lights go out?

[Adarewyr]

That's good, they can be frustrating at times.

Just on the above errors.

All TD5 D2 MSB engine ECUs come with 3 tunes on them from factory, although one isn't a usable tube.

The Defender ones do not.

The different tunes can be selected with a simple diagnostic request, which the Nanocom cannot do.

As mentioned, one of the available tunes isn't really usable, it's possibly set to that at factory when a replacement ECU is ordered, the dealer would fit it, then they would use their diag gear to set it up.

I'm guessing they are set this way so the dealer has to adjust them and make sure they have the correct tune selected.

I think the unusable /factory default tune is:

No homologation

No flash.

NOSELECT.

Or something like like that, I really can't remember.

I also can't remember whether the engine will start with these settings.

I believe this is what mine said and it wouldn't start, although I'm now curious why my truck spluttered the other day if the ECU was immobilized and not cleared by the BCU?

[Adarewyr]

195347195348

Now back to getting the truck ready for bigger tyres and a lift.... Hoping to keep it looking somewhat respectful
... Also don't have access to a welder so I've been doing a double seam on the door skins to keep everything water tight and sealed up....

[Adarewyr]

And, did the M&S lights go out?

Yep, every light is gone she's back to being a perfectly running truck, starts instantaneously, shifts fine

[AK83]

.... although I'm now curious why my truck spluttered the other day if the ECU was immobilized and not cleared by the BCU?

Maybe its a 'test setting' type of thing. an electronic version of start'yabastard or something, just confirm that the engine can start and fuel is getting to the important places.

Recall that even tho mine wasn't immobilised, nor initially a non starter, hitting the starter whilst in that menu did the same thing .. started and switched off a sec later.

But in doing that, mine then went 'Adarewyr' mode! [biggrin]

[Adarewyr]

Maybe its a 'test setting' type of thing. an electronic version of start'yabastard or something, just confirm that the engine can start and fuel is getting to the important places.

Recall that even tho mine wasn't immobilised, nor initially a non starter, hitting the starter whilst in that menu did the same thing .. started and switched off a sec later.

But in doing that, mine then went 'Adarewyr' mode! [biggrin]

Id love to take the credit for bricking D2's but I think someone at Land Rover is more deserving of the credit! Crazy to think an open door overnight bricked my truck! Good thing I've got 4 ECU laying around.... Hopefully Tins issue is as easy of a fix as mine, I will need to add a volt meter somewhere to make sure I don't make the same mistake again

[Tins]

I’ll find out in the new year. It’s parked up at the moment.