If you can't hit it with a hammer... D1 'vs' D2..

[Lowrange]

Howdy folks....

After reading hours...and I mean hours, of the info on this forum...( and I've got to say.. this is the best LR group I've come accross, low on the B****hit and hi on the info...with a touch of humour!) in an attempt to decide on a Discovery 2 or a late Discovery 1 (auto)... I think it will/has come down to the fact that I dont like electricity...

In my books if you cant see it, adjust it, put a shim... spacer...zip tie etc, on it ...or...HIT IT WITH A HAMMER... its a form of voodoo...

The purchase cost and resale aside...(not an issue as it will get major mods and be kept for years... Im buiding a "dune buggy":p ) I love the Disco II, it drives nicer, has more power, etc... and I am led to believe is still a capable off-road vehicle....( comments?)
(is it correct to say the departure angle is not as good as a D1?)

But the D1 has less of this "voodoo" to deal with.

I do most of my own service/repairs/mods... love to tinker...and think I would be less able to look after..(read as mother...lol) a D2.

My local LR mechanic also said he can get all the parts for a 300tdi at a reasonable cost, but god help my bank balance if I trash a TD5. ( "but they sure do drive nice" I hear my self say)

So... what to look for when buying a late...98?... tdi300 auto... apart from the usual stuff... the problems with these vehicles....?

For sand driving..do the trans coolers need upgrading?

Does the auto have an over temp warning light like some of the manuals?


I already have definate plan for chassis/running gear mods...but what is the best order to go for in the engine? exhaust... I/C.... fuel pump timing...etc



...take it easy...

[dobbo]

and I am led to believe is still a capable off-road vehicle....( comments?)
(is it correct to say the departure angle is not as good as a D1?)
.

It's very capable off road, The departure angle can be fixed by installing a bullbar or doning the hacksaw in hand.

If I had the choice of a D1 and a D2 today, I'd pick a D1 with a TD5. If not then a D2 and strengthen and install protection guards for everything

[Blknight.aus]

Id do the donk mods in this order

Exhaust (head and valve port and polish if youre keen)
snorkle/airbox mods
intercooler
Pump

this way your ensuring the engine can get rid of spent gas
breath easy
then get the fuel

do it the other way aound and you may find that after getting the fuel settings right you need to rejig the pump cause the new air flow from the bigger cooler/airbox screws it. Then you fit the new bloody exhaust and the gasses go twice as fast the new air intake is now choking the donk and FFS youve got to re jig the pump for the second time......

Of course by now SWMBO is beating you about the ears complaing about the amount of dieso and swearing youve spilt jigging the pump, youve buggered all the pump seals from pulling it down so often, gotten careless mixed the plungers the things running like a hairy goat........


Breath out breath in, Fart and smile...... a simple stress free mantra in regards to engine mods.

[JDNSW]

The D1 has many more parts in common with the classic Rangerover and Defender (just as examples, wheel stud pattern and wheel bearings) which tends to make parts cheaper and give more choice when modifying things. For your intended purpose this may be a significant consideration.
John

[PhilipA]

Er , I am mot an expert on Disco specs, but I think a 300tdi auto has electronic control of the injectors and is not a "hammer" job.
Certainly the injectors are MUCH more expensive than a Tdi manual, if I recall a browse of an English site and saying Geeez look at that or similar.
330tdi manual and earlier are hammer jobs.
Regard sPhilip A

[BigJon]

Er , I am mot an expert on Disco specs, but I think a 300tdi auto has electronic control of the injectors and is not a "hammer" job.
Certainly the injectors are MUCH more expensive than a Tdi manual,Regard sPhilip A

That may be the case in Europe, but out here they are the same. No electronic control of any Tdi engine unless it was privately imported.

[DiscoDan]

Owning the motor that you want, all I can say is for the last 5 years I have been happy with the 300Tdi auto combo.:)

However, when the price of fuel is 20cent difference at the pump and the total lack of power`when you want to go, sometimes I wish that I had gone the V8 manual route.;)

I fact the last major trip I undertook with a mate in a Rangie resulted in me acheving 16lts per 100 and him getting 19lts per 100 (highway driving).:mad:
Both of us were towing trailers however mine was larger. To put this size difference into consideration when we were touring the high country (Vic) with these trailers and the wind deflection no longer made a difference my car did start returning 11lts per 100 and his also dropped to 16 lts/100. This has been the worst fuel consumption that i have ever achived, it was even better on the beach.

I have just had the head gasket done, cooling system over hauled and timing belt fitted and am 4500 worst off, g/box rebuild 2500-3000 and usally due around the 250k mark. And this is the cost for non eletronic you can hammer parts. Don't know wheather to be happy or sad at the cost of this. Best service that I have received (ever with the Land Rover) and the price was higher at other places. But if you don't have the time to fix a daily driver then to the shop it goes. ( I did budget for more as thought the g/box required rebuild as well however Rick was sure it didn't and he was right, last clown put wrong oil in at auto service so save the rebuild price)

I look at the guys that chip the Td5 and think that the end result is about where the V8 starts and from what I have seen the 4.6 sells new for less that the Tdi or Td5 costs for a rebuild.

If you don't plan it as a daily driver I would take the V8 manual any day, better off the mark grunt, better down hill control, better weight distrubution and more power. Lets face it we all want more power.:twisted:

Oh and the last thing to think about, if you carry large esky's or a fridge check the back of the series one first to see if it will fit the way you want. I run my engle 40lt sideways as with the cargo barrier and a table attached to the rear door it won't fit in long ways. Which bring to the next point can't get a fridge side to work this way.

End of the day would I swap it


Yes but only for a V8 manual and more than likely another series one Disco or maybe the Rangie with the Disco dash. (after removing the electric's and then haveing the box swapped more work)

I hope my rambleings help:)

[Ace]

It's very capable off road, The departure angle can be fixed by installing a bullbar or doning the hacksaw in hand.

If I had the choice of a D1 and a D2 today, I'd pick a D1 with a TD5. If not then a D2 and strengthen and install protection guards for everything

D1's never came with the TD5 engine (unfortunately) attempts have been made to fit them but the computers make it hard.

I have a 98 D1 tdi and love it. Simple, easy to work on, and no electronics. The D1 is better off road than the D11 if the D11 doesnt have the Centre Diff lock fitted, with the CDL fitted there isnt much in it.

If you dont like the electronics and like the simplicity then go a D1, if you want power go the D11 a TD5 with a mod chip pulls like a train. Matt

[DiscoDan]

So... what to look for when buying a late...98?... tdi300 auto... apart from the usual stuff... the problems with these vehicles....?

For sand driving..do the trans coolers need upgrading?

Does the auto have an over temp warning light like some of the manuals?


I already have definate plan for chassis/running gear mods...but what is the best order to go for in the engine? exhaust... I/C.... fuel pump timing...etc


So didn't get to your questions

I would upgrade to cooler if you intend on running in soft sand for long periods,

Yes it does have a over heat light I have seen mine a couple of times (must put in a upgraded cooler one day)

Not to sure of the engine mods however I know you can tweak the fuel and I have seen one that has exhaust pipe only ie no mufflers and owner believes it is worth more horses

[dobbo]

Sorry I should have said a D1 and put a TD5 conversion in it.

A 3door disco D1 would be good to mod up, I have a mate who is thinking about one.

[waynep]

I got the opportunity to drive a TD5 DII for a day as a loan car while my D1 was being serviced.

To me, the two cars are worlds apart. The DII felt much more smooth, "cosy" and quiet and better finished as opposed to the D1 which is fairly "agricultural". I was impressed I can say.

All the electronics on the D11 are the only concern and would get an earlier one where a centre diff lock can be fitted. The traction control wasn't all that good I hear.

[waynep]

Oh and the last thing to think about, if you carry large esky's or a fridge check the back of the series one first to see if it will fit the way you want. I run my engle 40lt sideways as with the cargo barrier and a table attached to the rear door it won't fit in long ways. Which bring to the next point can't get a fridge side to work this way.


I hope my rambleings help:)

A WAECO 40 litre fridge just fits long ways in the back of a D1 if you remove one of the handles.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

To me, the two cars are worlds apart. The DII felt much more smooth, "cosy" and quiet and better finished as opposed to the D1 which is fairly "agricultural". I was impressed I can say.

All the electronics on the D11 are the only concern and would get an earlier one where a centre diff lock can be fitted. The traction control wasn't all that good I hear.


Good call waynep, the difference between the two is huge,
ask ME I own one of each!!!

and that phurfy about TC is told by people that DONT have it---
CDL AND Traction control is amazing,,,:burnrubber:

[Pedro_The_Swift]

A WAECO 40 litre fridge just fits long ways in the back of a D1 if you remove one of the handles.


and the one off the rear door;)

[LandyAndy]

Hi Lowrange
If you can handle a petrol,there has been a black disco2 V8 with all the extras in the Quokka for the last 6weeks or so,100000ks,minor RH damage.$11000!!!! Well worth a look,put a silly offer of 9G or so on it,you could be lucky.
If its not in this week I can look the details up in last weeks copy for you.
Andrew

[Lowrange]

Thanks all for the input...

For me it's got to be deisel. Firstly, they handle hard running on a hot day better, second, less parts required to make the fuel/air go bang (less to fix,adjust, less water crossing probs etc), and lastly, some of the places,(and soon more I hear) that I want to visit up north , only allow deisel fuel vehicles, or avgas I think, in the area.

Room in the back is no problem, as it's only my girlfriend and our cattle dog to go in the car... will probably pull out the rear seats completely! I travel fairly light, no trailer planned either.

The concept of working backwards to the fuel pump makes alot of sense, do it last, and do it once...thanks, will go that way.

Does anyone know of an aftermarket trans cooler to suit ? I remember my auto rangie had a long "hair brush" like one at the front. Think that was original LR but not sure as the ZF was put in the '84 by previous owner.

I thought the D2 departure angle was due to a longer rear cargo length?

Cheers

[Ace]

The whole Disco11 traction control thing is crap, i went off road a while ago with Henry's club we did the spanish steps track near my place, going up the steps with my d1 CDL locked i walked up the track as opposed to the D11 that had considerably more wheel spin, but got up none the less. The thing with traction control is that there needs to be spin before it will work so more often than not a bit of right foot gets the traction control to stop the spinning wheel and gets you moving again. (this is from what i gathered as everytime the D11 got stuck he had to give it right foot before the TC would brake the spinning wheel). Combine TC with a CDL in a D11 and you have a pretty good off road combo. Matt

[dobbo]

The whole Disco11 traction control thing is crap, i went off road a while ago with Henry's club we did the spanish steps track near my place, going up the steps with my d1 CDL locked i walked up the track as opposed to the D11 that had considerably more wheel spin, but got up none the less. The thing with traction control is that there needs to be spin before it will work so more often than not a bit of right foot gets the traction control to stop the spinning wheel and gets you moving again. (this is from what i gathered as everytime the D11 got stuck he had to give it right foot before the TC would brake the spinning wheel). Combine TC with a CDL in a D11 and you have a pretty good off road combo. Matt

Jealous are we pet?

This was my initial reaction to it but once you learn how to use it properly it is very very good without a CDL but especially with one.

Driving a D2 without it is not a very pleasurable experience.

[Ace]

Jealous are we pet?

This was my initial reaction to it but once you learn how to use it properly it is very very good without a CDL but especially with one.

Driving a D2 without it is not a very pleasurable experience.

No not jealous, i actually got the impression that after going up the same track and taking the same line that my CDL no TC disco 1 did it easier, he had alot more wheel spin than i did. Now i would love a D11, i just wouldnt have one without putting the CDL back in. Matt

[waynep]

and the one off the rear door;)

What one on the rear door ?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

mine has(had;)) a long door handle on the inside of the rear door--

doesnt everyones?

[waynep]

Mine doesn't it is completly flat. I noticed some early Discos have like a bin thing on the rear door.

[rocky2509]

Mine is a '98 LS and has a storage bin and subwoofer on the back door but no handle.

[DiscoDan]

On the fridge thing, remove the handles and you can't carry. I already have removed the rear door handle, but I have a table attached to the door and a cargo barrier. I can cut both to suit and remove the handles on the fridge but that defeats the purpose of a portable fridge (you can't carry it). When I go camping it parks beside the tent when not driving and then put in the car for the drives.
I will however trailer mount it one day. (3 kids and no cargo area.)

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Mine is a '98 LS and has a storage bin and subwoofer on the back door but no handle.

interesting--
the D2 sound upgrade option has the subs in the rear door, not sure if that takes the storage bin away though,,,,

[Norm Mueller]

I'm on my second D1. My first was a 98 Tdi manual and my current one is a 99 Tdi manual. They've been the best 2 cars I've ever had (and I've had plenty outside my Land Rover list). They've never given any real problem and been brilliant off the tar.

I have Bilsteins and Cooper S/T tyres on my current one which makes for incredible control on corrugated dirt and forest trails, and when I did a double staking of a set of tyres (Bridgestone A/T rubbish) near Walcha a few years back, I managed to borrow a spare from a farmer's S1 Landy and drive to Tamworth without any ill-effects.

The 300Tdi is a great little motor. Take care of it and it will take care of you. Mine has just passed 275000km and still goes well. Yes it's a little underpowered and the lag is a fair bit, but it still beats a 4.2 turbo diesel Patrol uphill from the lights.

In short it's a great, reliable combination and has the pros of parts swapping with earlier vehicles and doesn't have any electrics to the motor except the wire to the fuel solenoid, the starter motor and the alternator.

[LoadedDisco]

The whole Disco11 traction control thing is crap, i went off road a while ago with Henry's club we did the spanish steps track near my place, going up the steps with my d1 CDL locked i walked up the track as opposed to the D11 that had considerably more wheel spin, but got up none the less. The thing with traction control is that there needs to be spin before it will work so more often than not a bit of right foot gets the traction control to stop the spinning wheel and gets you moving again. (this is from what i gathered as everytime the D11 got stuck he had to give it right foot before the TC would brake the spinning wheel). Combine TC with a CDL in a D11 and you have a pretty good off road combo. Matt

Yep, the D2 with traction control and CDL is nearly as good as one locker.
They can handle some serious off road action.
But you cant go past two ARB air lockers. :D

[tempestv8]

The wheel arches on the Disco I are smaller than on the Disco II, so fitment of larger sized tyres (circa 32" diameter) can cause rubbing problems with the DI.

But of course, it's possible to chop the guards and fit whatever sized tyres you want. :twisted:

The 300TDi is a good donk but sometimes just doesn't have enough berries to do a "run up" at some obstacles.

The DII is indeed a big improvement over the DI but the Discovery Series III absolutely takes the cake in terms of advancement forward. Shame there's so much electronics on it... :(

[cal415]

I think the TC in the DII isnt to bad unless you in the sand, definetly helps when you lift a wheel though. Even before i had lift/CDL/big tyres my disco went most places my brothers Rangie with 32's went, now with mods it does it alot easier!

As me and Dobbo tested recently at Awaba RV training ground the TC definetly works great on rock faces with a bit of loose stuff around. We managed to get his stock DII up a nasty little climb that most drivers cringe!

If you got for the DII, my list of mods would be

1. CDL (mainly because i do alot of beach driving - HUUGGEEE improvement in sand with CDL) - get a DIIa one check out d2au.com there is a guy selling them for around the 500 dollar mark - cheaper then the eletronic units and much more reliable.
2. tyres - 265/75-16s fit without much drama - better with lift, going bigger you might need some trimming and extended bump stops.
3. 2-3in of lift/longer shocks - If you get one with SLS check out 4x4 Design and engineerings SLS 50mm lift kit.
4. Snorkell - especialy if you get a V8, AFMs and water do not mix!!!! i found out the hard way.
5. Bullbar - if i did it again i would consider a brothers front bar or a TJM - approach angle on a ARB bar is pretty shocking, i am considering improving it with the help of my friend mr angle grinder. I introduced him to my old plastic front bar too ;)
6. Steel rear bar - Brothers off road do one of these also check out 4x4DE they are doing them soon to i believe

then on to a winch/lockers etc the expensive bits!

When i got my DII it was mainly because my GF didnt like the D1 interiors, and i wasnt fussed on the lack of cargo space or lack of power in the TDI I drove or the older V8s. My V8 loves the beach - plenty of balls.... it also loves the fuel to though!

[LandyAndy]

Hi Ace
When you went in Harrys D2 did he have the tyres at highway pressure????I suspect so.Dropped down to 16 or 18 psi the TC works really well,and when one locks their CDL its as good as having a LSD front and rear.As Dobbo said,you need to drive one for a while to get your head around the benefits/shortcomings of the system.
I was out playing with Baz in our new playground last weekend,I went up a tough climb easy with 16psi,CDL locked and TC on,couldnt even get 1/2 way up with CDL locked and TC disabled.
Andrew

[dobbo]

The hill that Cal415 was talking about.
Yes I got up it in my stock (apart from CDL) D2 with the original Michellin tyres that have done 124000km's.

Taction control is very very good. Originally I didn't like it, until the fault came up and I didn't have it for a week (till I had the time to get it fixed) then I new what a difference it makes.