Which model falcon?

[Ace]

Hi all, the laser is just to damn small so we are selling it at xmas and getting a falcon and either putting it on gas or getting one with gas. My question is what model should i be looking at we are only looking at spending a couple of grand, 3 at the most as we will only get 1500 or so for the laser, so we are putting a bit away. I have been told the EA's are peices of crap, but as i have always owned commodores i wouldnt know. I am looking at models after the XF so the newer shape. Matt

[Scouse]

Hi all, the laser is just to damn small so we are selling it at xmas and getting a falcon and either putting it on gas or getting one with gas. My question is what model should i be looking at we are only looking at spending a couple of grand, 3 at the most as we will only get 1500 or so for the laser, so we are putting a bit away. I have been told the EA's are peices of crap, but as i have always owned commodores i wouldnt know. I am looking at models after the XF so the newer shape. MattMy dad has a "fleet" of EB-EFs & loves them.

I'd avoid the EA & go for the best EB or later you can afford.
Check the auto transmission for smooth, quiet changes & make sure it's not noisy in a particular gear, usually 4th.
Fuel pumps often give a bit of warning before packing it in.
Head gasket leaks are common but it's usually oil not coolant leaking.

He quite often gets up to 400000 - 500000 before touching the motor. By that time, everything else is dead or dying on the car & it goes to the bottom of the paddock for retirement.

[numpty]

We once had an EA Wagon. It WAS crap :( Get something else. Why not a Commodore Wagon if you like Holdens? Or a newer car...if you like the Laser then why not a Mazda Astina hatchback? We are really happy with ours, which we bought to replace a Laser hatchback. They also keep their resale value better than things like the Falcon.

Numpty's Missus

[Discobunny]

Hi Ace , I ran an XF on gas for 300000kms and they are great (it had 278000kms before I converted it). From looking at the company cars at work the EA-ED were pretty average, EA's worse, ED better (the commodores of equivalent vintage seemd a better car IMHO). The EF's and EL's were significantly better. A friend has and EF on Gas and loves it (had a few issues with backfiring initially, but a backfire valve and better tuning sorted it). Get the latest model you can is generally a good rule.

[George130]

Some of the AU's are cheap as everyone hated them. Otherwise look for something like ours NL fairlane. Everything unders the sun and quite cheap to repair. When looking be more concerned with the body and drive train as a good engine is easy to find. The gearbox issues are where you spend the money. There are some parts you just can't get without spending hundreds to thousands when you only wanted the little seal.

[Mud_Bogger6]

If you want a car with gas, just sit in it with a few cans of baked beans

[George130]

If you want a car with gas, just sit in it with a few cans of baked beans
:D :D :D

[rangieman]

just go the el-ef and if you can spare the bucks go the au they are all fairly cheap

i know a wholesaler if you pm me i might be able to help you out
it might mean a trip down south , hey we could do that relay thing and get it to the boarder for you . have drinks camp the night and shoot thru the next day:angel:

[Redback]

Get a V6 Camry, best family car on the road, economical plenty of go and very very very very reliable, we have one and it's never been touched in anger:thumbsup:

[dobbo]

Mat you could get a mid to late 90's magna in a V6 dirt cheap (avoid the 4cyl), they cost nothing to service, parts are relitively cheap, check the gearbox though.

I have a 95 in a v6 manual, never had any real problems with it, it's now done us close to 200k and is just starting to burn oil.

Averages around 10l/100km (not bad for a 11 yr old car)

They are going for up to $5000 now.

[Ace]

I liked the commodore but wanted a falcon, we will look around when the time comes, i just want a falcon cause they are a piece of **** to work on, dont want a magna, they are good enough cars just dont want one. I hate the laser, to frigging small, wouldnt get anything smaller than a falcon. I am going to shop around when the time comes but the commodores hold their value better than the falcons and i aint getting a piece of **** VN, would have to be a VP or newer. I am ****ed i sold mine it was a top car, but it had to go to make way for the disco. I would love an EF or newer, even an AU would be good but the budget is tight so we really want a cheapy to run into the ground. Older falcons are easy to work on, the straight 6 in the falcons is easier to work on than the V6 in the commodore i have found. We are still waiting to see how much cash we have in the xmas hols. We arent going to get anything until then cause we want to sell the laser first, then look around and the xmas hols gives us heaps of time, and mum and dad are going overseas so we can borrow one of their cars until we find a replacement for the laser. At the moment i am just doing the routine research. Matt

[dobbo]

So what are we looking for what price range, auto or manual, what model eg falcon, fairlane , fairmont etc... what colour what mileage wagon or sedan

TELL US WHAT YOU WANT?

[rangieman]

geez doddo i thought you would have suggested a valiant:p

[dobbo]

geez doddo i thought you would have suggested a valiant:p

The wifes TS magna was made in the same factory as my mighty Valiant ute was.

Just the engine aint definately not a HEMI six

so in a way, I have!!!

[rangieman]

point taken so a magna is the new greek merc:cool:

[Ace]

So what are we looking for what price range, auto or manual, what model eg falcon, fairlane , fairmont etc... what colour what mileage wagon or sedan

TELL US WHAT YOU WANT?

Sorry mate, i thought i had been more specific. I would prefer a manual, but in the end i can accept an auto as they are far more common, $3000 is probably the ceiling for price so that rules out the some of the new models. It will most likely be an EB, ED, i would like an EF but dont know if i will find one in good enough condition for the price we have set. I dont mind getting one that needs a bit of cosmetic and some mechanical work if the price is right, and dont want a wagon, a sedan is all we need, we have the disco for trips with heaps of gear this is just a run-about. Dont care about colour as long as it aint brown, red, green, blue or silver would be preferable. We are going to hit the trading post come the xmas hols, and if there is a top one in Vic i dont mind doing the meet half way deal, aslong as some Victorian hoon doesnt drive it up. :D

I have seen some with pretty **** house paint cancer on the bonnet etc, i want it to look alright, might even put mags on it etc.

Is that enough for you dobbo? Matt :D

[dobbo]

Sorry mate, i thought i had been more specific. I would prefer a manual, but in the end i can accept an auto as they are far more common, $3000 is probably the ceiling for price so that rules out the some of the new models. It will most likely be an EB, ED, i would like an EF but dont know if i will find one in good enough condition for the price we have set. I dont mind getting one that needs a bit of cosmetic and some mechanical work if the price is right, and dont want a wagon, a sedan is all we need, we have the disco for trips with heaps of gear this is just a run-about. Dont care about colour as long as it aint brown, red, green, blue or silver would be preferable. We are going to hit the trading post come the xmas hols, and if there is a top one in Vic i dont mind doing the meet half way deal, aslong as some Victorian hoon doesnt drive it up. :D

I have seen some with pretty **** house paint cancer on the bonnet etc, i want it to look alright, might even put mags on it etc.

Is that enough for you dobbo? Matt :D

No prefered VIN number range please






NAh, that'll do pig, that'll do.

[LoadedDisco]

Ace,
EA's stay away from them crap as you have been told.

I have had an XF, EA, EL and AU2.
If you have the bucks definatly the EL, it was a great Ford and went a little harder than the XF which also had a good motor.

[cewilson]

Even as an avid Ford supporter, I'd honestly be looking at a Commodore for the money and the year models that you are looking at. If you really do want a Falcon, then start looking at the XE or XF - they are so much more reliable than the EA or EB's it's not funny!

Cheers
Chris

[Bigbjorn]

Sorry mate, i thought i had been more specific. I would prefer a manual, but in the end i can accept an auto as they are far more common, $3000 is probably the ceiling for price so that rules out the some of the new models. It will most likely be an EB, ED, i would like an EF but dont know if i will find one in good enough condition for the price we have set. I dont mind getting one that needs a bit of cosmetic and some mechanical work if the price is right, and dont want a wagon, a sedan is all we need, we have the disco for trips with heaps of gear this is just a run-about. Dont care about colour as long as it aint brown, red, green, blue or silver would be preferable. We are going to hit the trading post come the xmas hols, and if there is a top one in Vic i dont mind doing the meet half way deal, aslong as some Victorian hoon doesnt drive it up. :D

I have seen some with pretty **** house paint cancer on the bonnet etc, i want it to look alright, might even put mags on it etc.

I have two Falcons at present. The first and the bloody last! 1998 XH Longreach Gli ute. 158000 k's.A piece of puss. Repetitive electrical/electronic failures. To date:- (2) electronic ign. modules, (1) Hall effect transducer, (1) main power relay, (2) ign. coils, (1) distributor cap- the coil terminal in the cap corroded & fell out on the South-east Freeway. Don't start me on fuel economy. This is a modern fuel injected all electronic singing & dancing car. Does 18-19mpg around town. Laden up highway 21mpg. Best ever, in ideal conditions, cold, wet, unladen, just me and an overnight bag, 26mpg, and this once only. the Ford dealer plugs in their computer and says averages 11l./100k's., & is within guidelines. I say "bulls--t! my logbook says 14l./100k's., if it was only using 11 I wouldn't be in your workshop chewing your ear." My earlier workhorse, Valiant CM ute (Hemi 265 auto) did 17-19mpg around town and 23mpg empty or laden up the highway and they were supposed to be gas guzzlers. The Foulcar's auto. trans. has no adjustments. Only service possible is to drain ( no drain plug!) and flush the fluid and replace the strainer. A mirror head was $134. A headlight assembly $370. A front blinker lens assembly $125. Front brake discs generally have to be replaced every second set of pads. The cylinder head was oozing coolant at the block-head interface at 140000. Removed, had surfaced and pressure tested. Engine recon'r said head is good, no signs of corrosion (unusual), leaked because Ford fit cheap s--t gaskets. Also said head and gasket problems common, head is a poor design, corrodes between 5 & 6, be meticulous with service, flush and replace inhibitor based coolant on schedule. This confirmed by other experienced mechanics, who also say Falcons have lots of electrical troubles. They were telling me?

I would be looking for a late model low k's Buick V6 Commodore with good service history.

[mark2]

I'd be looking at an ex cab for that sort of money. Who cares about high km when its already on lpg, relatively late model and been serviced regularly. Transmission and rear diff would have been replaced several times and motors are normally in good nick as have been run on lgp their whole life. For the money, they are one of the best value means of transport around.
Talk to the fleet manager at a large cab depot.
Vinly floor mats are handy too......

[Bigbjorn]

Sorry mate, i thought i had been more specific. I would prefer a manual, but in the end i can accept an auto as they are far more common, $3000 is probably the ceiling for price so that rules out the some of the new models. It will most likely be an EB, ED, i would like an EF but dont know if i will find one in good enough condition for the price we have set. I dont mind getting one that needs a bit of cosmetic and some mechanical work if the price is right, and dont want a wagon, a sedan is all we need, we have the disco for trips with heaps of gear this is just a run-about. Dont care about colour as long as it aint brown, red, green, blue or silver would be preferable. We are going to hit the trading post come the xmas hols, and if there is a top one in Vic i dont mind doing the meet half way deal, aslong as some Victorian hoon doesnt drive it up. :D

I have seen some with pretty **** house paint cancer on the bonnet etc, i want it to look alright, might even put mags on it etc.

Is that enough for you dobbo? Matt :D

For Three big ones, all you will get is a second hand dealer's reject trade-in or a private sale out of the Trading Post. A 10 year old car with a Safety Certificate, four tyres and a few months rego. is worth the value of these, and the car itself is worth scrap value. Go to a few auctions and see for yourself . You can get a fairly good 8-10 year old Holden/Falcon, probably under 100,000k's for $4000-$5000. & a Magna for $1000-$3000. Does this tell you something about Magnas? Up here even the wreckers won't have them. Most 6 year old plus cars going through the auctions have inoperative air conditioning. Avoid Euros and luxury cars once the first gloss of youth is off them. Hondas are not cheap to keep nor are Lexus (Toyotas with a fancy price tag). Particularly avoid French & Italian cars unlesss you are into pain

[Ace]

Thanks guys, i havent ruled out a commodore, would probably look for a VR or something, they are better on fuel. Will have to wait and see. Matt

[RR5L]

Gday Ace,

I recently went through this myself looking for a car around 3-5K from what I saw the falcons tended to offer more for your money, lower K's better nick than commodores. Probably comes down to who has owned them commodores seem to attract younger kids who thrash the crap out of them and then still want big bucks for them when they sell. Dont know why but falcons dont seem to hold thier value as well as a commodore.

We ended up buying a EF futura with 130Ks on the clock with full service records for 5K and I will say for a falcon it was in great nick, the wife loves it.

[Ace]

Gday Ace,

I recently went through this myself looking for a car around 3-5K from what I saw the falcons tended to offer more for your money, lower K's better nick than commodores. Probably comes down to who has owned them commodores seem to attract younger kids who thrash the crap out of them and then still want big bucks for them when they sell. Dont know why but falcons dont seem to hold thier value as well as a commodore.

We ended up buying a EF futura with 130Ks on the clock with full service records for 5K and I will say for a falcon it was in great nick, the wife loves it.

Thats why i am looking for a falcon, motors go forever if serviced, easy to fix when things go wrong and for the same money as a commodore you can buy a falcon a few years newer. We dont want to go over 3k, but if we need to we can if the cash is there.

We might go and check out the auctions, only thing i dont like about the auctions is no test drive and you dont get the hear the engine run until they drive it up for the actual auction. There are bargains but we need something that isnt potentially going to be a lemon that will cost us heaps as the budget is stretched. There are heaps of falcons etc on ebay, but they are heaps dearer than the trading post and carsales etc, even through a dealer prices are lower than ebay. Matt

[Ace]

Just one more question. What time frame, or years span did each model run for from the EA upward to the AU? I cant work it out, some people say EA 1992, then there is an EB 1991, or and EF 94 or and ED 94, from what i can gather the models didnt last that long before they were updated to the next one.

Also, what do you use to tell visually which model it is? Matt

[EchiDna]

http://www.redbookasiapacific.com/au/vehicle/index.php'make=FORD&family=PSFALCON

it's even got pictures of the models :)

basically every year there was an update :eek:

[timberwolf_302]

The EA came out in '88 (Series II EA's werent too bad FYI), then the EB came out in '91, ED in '93, EF in '94, EL '96, AU '98.

If you can get one for the money, an EL is definitely the best way to go. My father has one with 390,000 on the clock, is on original diff, auto and engine and it still runs like new (still on petrol too). It has had no major problems at all. Only had one head gasket changed which was at 230,000 (which was expected) and Valve guide seals done at 280,000.

It has been an excellent car, and will be for a long time to come.

I believe they were the best built post 1988 Falcon model ever made. Way better than the models after it, thats for sure...very disappointing reliability wise.

I'd still love to get myself another old Falcon. My first car was an XF with a 3.3. Not overly powerful, but could handle a good flogging.

[VladTepes]

First let me say I know nothing about Commodores.

I had an EB Falcon (I think it was a 1992 model but I canlt remember). I was very happy with it especially after I put a Pedders suspension package in it (not cheap, but then again what is). I was happy right up to the point when the auto box sh*t itself at the top of the Toowoomba range. Thank the deities for RACQ Ultra - got it towed back to Brissie for nix. The box repair was bloody exe, so do be aware of that.

The mother in law has an EF Fairmont - it is basically the same car with an updated body styling, and some newer doo-dads like ABS and stuff. It's very nice to drive.

I foind the roof line (ie at the top of the windscreen) is lower on the AU and onwards models than the previous ones. I don't seem to fit in to them as as well - I'm 6 foot tall.

The EB and EF are both nice cars to drive - better I think than the one commodore of the same vintage that I have driven.

But I must say MARK2's idea of an ex-cab is an interesting one that hadn't occured to me.




Oh and you were making perfect sense when you said you were just looking for a cheap car.... until you said you might put mags on it ! Bloody heck mate, spend those extra dollars on a slightly better car in the first place !

[QSDT]

If I had to own a Falcon, ''EL'' as stated above are the best, worked on a few in my time found them very nice cars. I own a VR Berlina at the moment which is also what I think the best of the Holden's. Knew a taxi driver in Noosa who got 1.5 million Km out of one, just like the falcons of that time 94 to 96. Just my 5 cents worth, had to round up you know, no ones and twos anymore.

[Andrewpv01]

If you want to go for an ex taxi expect about 6-7000 thousand k's on the clock (I know I have one).
There is a dealer near Botany (in Sydney) that specialises in ex taxis and always has a couple for sale.
When I went there to get 1 for SWMBO he thought she was going alone and had the dodgiest one there ready for her.
I eventually made a deal on a different one for the same money:) otherwise I would have walked away.
You would probably get AUII or newer too, but would probably pay $4-5000.

Andrew

[LoadedDisco]

Just one more question. What time frame, or years span did each model run for from the EA upward to the AU? I cant work it out, some people say EA 1992, then there is an EB 1991, or and EF 94 or and ED 94, from what i can gather the models didnt last that long before they were updated to the next one.

Also, what do you use to tell visually which model it is? Matt

Ace,
Thats just Ford unfortunately and thats why Fords find it a little harder to hold there value. If a Ford model changes in 12 months is because they stuffed some thing up pretty bad on the previous model.
If they generally get it right and need to adjust a few things they bring out the (MK2 and MK3) which also messes with the money value.
You are best to get the last model Ford in series or shape if you know what I mean, because they have sorted all the bugs out by then.
Then just check service history and go for the best one.

With auctions there is a Brisbane Government auction that we have been to twice to get a Ford and they have been great. You where able to crawl all over the cars and start them up no probs.

[sumo]

Forget the frigin comodores and falcons, buy a subaru 90 mod liberty for same dough and have twice the car!!.

Cheers sumo:D

[Yabbie]

Ace for my money get a EF or even a EL if you can afford the extra cash.
Stick clear of the Ex Taxi's( just Courier Vans with rear seats)
I owned a 95 EF before the Rangie. Loved it.

But un forntunately she fell in love with a tree and stole 30mins of my life, when she let it enter her just before the drivers side A pillar. I remember the slide and seeing the tree, just little else for about 30mis after.
I purchased it with just under 40,000kms on it and SOLD it still rapped around her beloved tree for $2500 with nearly 300,000.

She moved us from the central coast to Adelaide pulled a variety of things the largest being a car trailer with a WB panelvan full loaded with household crap.
The only major troubles I had was a faulty temp sensor which resulted in pushing it to hard and needing a rebuild mid way to adelaide with the panel van.
Apart from that one great car.

I'll keep my Eye's out for one if your interested.


Do I get a finders fee?:)

[VladTepes]

The only major troubles I had was a faulty temp sensor which resulted in pushing it to hard and needing a rebuild mid way to adelaide with the panel van.
..

and of the course that whole tree thing.

[Yabbie]

Yes but I'll blame that on the Kangaroo for not giving way.


EF's are easy to fix, Parts are cheaper too due to the amount of Taxi's that were EF's.

Never needed to take it to a mechanic once, well except for the rebuild in Wagga. But would have had a crack at it if I was at home.

[sclarke]

I drive a AU 3 falcon 2002 model. Ute
Its ok, but compared to euro or LR its crap....
Replaced the plugs in it today and leads..... $210

Yeash

[Bigbjorn]

Ace,
Thats just Ford unfortunately and thats why Fords find it a little harder to hold there value. If a Ford model changes in 12 months is because they stuffed some thing up pretty bad on the previous model.
If they generally get it right and need to adjust a few things they bring out the (MK2 and MK3) which also messes with the money value.
You are best to get the last model Ford in series or shape if you know what I mean, because they have sorted all the bugs out by then.
Then just check service history and go for the best one.

With auctions there is a Brisbane Government auction that we have been to twice to get a Ford and they have been great. You where able to crawl all over the cars and start them up no probs.

At the State Government fleet auctions in Brisbane you will get a very good late model car. You will not get a cheap car or a bargain.

In spite of what most of us think of the used car industry, those in it are very perceptive of values and of problematic vehicles. Try hawking some of the exotics and well known dogs around in search of a trade-in price and see the glaze come over the salesman's eyes. Commodores have a higher resale value than Falcons because the trade and the public see them as the better vehicle. Better fuel economy, cheaper parts, fewer built-in problems. Ford have had a cylinder head problem ever since they went to the aluminium head and on appearances have done nothing to fix it. Falcons, late models, now have a reputation for electrical troubles.

If you are looking for a reliable economic family car, then the Holden is the way to go. Look for a privately owned car, about 7-10 years old, less than 100000k's, with a good service history. These go through the auctions at $4000-$5000. Maybe a bit more for a real good one.

Avoid Euros., luxury cars, and the high tech orientals, (Subaru, Lexus, Honda, top end Mitsubishis.). These have lots of un-necessary bells & whistles that contribute nothing to the basic job of carting your family from point to point.These vehicles are an expensive curse to maintain once they have lost the gloss of youth. Add absolutely staggering parts prices to a dealer network that is not interested in your old car unless you are going to buy another.

[Quiggers]

Matt, I have had several E's without any real dramas, (just minor regular issues like exhaust, batteries tyres and the 94 ED wagon had to have its front end shimmied for about 200 bucks). Been running an AU 99 withu drama (touch wood). $3000 will get you a good EF 95/96, shop around there's heaps of them, or maybe an EL late 96 released i think.

A neighbour has an EF for sale at $3650 which to me, is a bit rich.

I sold my ED 94 wagon a year ago (which was okay mechanically, but the odo stopped at 281,000ish, but the roof paint had gone off) for $3,000.

Good luck, just be a bit careful.

GQ

[VladTepes]

a dealer network that is not interested in your old car unless you are going to buy another.

Hmm, that sounds familiar.

[Ace]

No worries, Jason, its the EF EL shape i like the most, so thats what i would be after.

Not touching a second hand subaru, they are nice new but second hand no thanks.

It wont be until the xmas hols coming so another couple of months at the earliest, i will post a thread when i am ready to actually look for cars, the budget will most likely be $3000. Matt

[rovercare]

Buy a falcon, my missus' EB fairmont is now up to 375k, all thats benn done in the last 100k is a powersteering idler and belt, fuel pump and radiator and front rotors and pads and averages 11l/100km and i still don't hesitate to drive it interstate at the drop of the hat.

But its now being sold cause she wants an RR to drive

[Yabbie]

Avoid Euros., luxury cars, and the high tech orientals, (Subaru, Lexus, Honda, top end Mitsubishis.). These have lots of un-necessary bells & whistles that contribute nothing to the basic job of carting your family from point to point.These vehicles are an expensive curse to maintain once they have lost the gloss of youth. Add absolutely staggering parts prices to a dealer network that is not interested in your old car unless you are going to buy another.


If I didn't know better I'd think he was trying to get you out of a Land Rover:twisted:

[Ace]

Buy a falcon, my missus' EB fairmont is now up to 375k, all thats benn done in the last 100k is a powersteering idler and belt, fuel pump and radiator and front rotors and pads and averages 11l/100km and i still don't hesitate to drive it interstate at the drop of the hat.

But its now being sold cause she wants an RR to drive

Thats why i am after one, the commodore i owned was great but for the same money you can get a newer falcon and they arent any worse. Dad has owned a fairmont wagon (XF) since 87 and the damn thing never stops, it had a new motor at 400000km and hasnt missed a beat since, my sister now drives is all the time and it never lets her down. Matt

[cewilson]

From summary from what I've been reading, most people here agree that with the Falcons the XE/XF models where good. Stay away from the EA's, EB's & ED's, but the EF's and EL's are fine.

I think that works for you doesn't it Ace????:D

[rovercare]

EB and ED's are fine, the EF EL's are a little more refined as you'd expect from a later model

[dobbo]

There are 2 Fal coons in the market place on this forum. One is just above your price range but looks Damn good.

The other is just a bloke magnet and could come with it's own version of Sith's Yogurt truck

[Ace]

From summary from what I've been reading, most people here agree that with the Falcons the XE/XF models where good. Stay away from the EA's, EB's & ED's, but the EF's and EL's are fine.

I think that works for you doesn't it Ace????:D

Yep that works for me, i will have a look in the market place, if we can stretch the budget a little further we might, but will have to wait and see about xmas time how much we have. Matt

[VladTepes]

I was considering buying my mates old Merc (1978 ish model) which has all the comforts of the Rangie (though not as good off road). Has a huge boot and with the rebate an LPG cnversion would be pretty cheap.

Then I woke up to myself and figured... geee $3500 buys a lot of Rangie fuel. (and that's not just the fuel its the price differential - would be about 100 tanks of fuel before I started making money on the deal).

(Of course it would be cool to have Luxo-Barge II)

[Ace]

I was considering buying my mates old Merc (1978 ish model) which has all the comforts of the Rangie (though not as good off road). Has a huge boot and with the rebate an LPG cnversion would be pretty cheap.

Then I woke up to myself and figured... geee $3500 buys a lot of Rangie fuel. (and that's not just the fuel its the price differential - would be about 100 tanks of fuel before I started making money on the deal).

(Of course it would be cool to have Luxo-Barge II)

Not to mention if you bought the merc buying rangie parts would seem cheap. :D

[VladTepes]

Not to mention if you bought the merc buying rangie parts would seem cheap. :D

That's right. So I didn't mention it.

[Ace]

That's right. So I didn't mention it.

Or you could buy the merc and the missus would then think the Rangie is cheap to run. :D

[DEFENDERZOOK]

you sure you dont want to buy my ol' mans lexcen......?

he doesnt want much for it......