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Captain_Rightfoot
18th September 2006, 11:54 AM
I wasn't sure where to put this so I'll try here :)

We are heading off on a long trip next year in June (probably about 6-8 weeks) and will be travelling through the simpson, and up the canning. The itinnary isn't locked down yet though.

Last time we went through the Simpson we had everything in the back of the car... never again! It was too cramped, and the setup time was far too long. This time my plan is to carry the tent, bedding, and all clothes on the roof. I don't want to go downt the camper trailer route.

I probably can't use a rooftop tent because there will be two little kids involved here. I also need somewhere up there to pack all the clothes.

One plan was to use our tourer tent, and leave the mattresses and bedding in there and make some kind of bag to fold the lot into and put that up on the roof. That would reduce setup time. We can get all the clothes into the roof pod on the other side of the roof.

These are just my ideas, and I'm bumping this up just in case anyone out there has some ideas... please :)

I'm really interested to hear how other people would/have approached this. The car is a fender 110 so roof space is ample and aerodynamics poor to start with!

Tusker
18th September 2006, 12:02 PM
Tourer tent is heavy enough without whacking more weight in it.. even heavier when wet..

I've had enough of trying to discus-throw the tourer tent onto the roofrack.

I've seen two roof tents on a Defender before. Only have to solve where to store clothes in this instance.

And where do you have your second spare?

Regards
Max P

Omaroo
18th September 2006, 12:15 PM
You could always buy our rooftop tent and the rack to go with it. Tent is for sale in the "Markets" section, and is designed to mountthe way I have it in this photo - with the ladder going to the bull bar.

The rack will take an ARB space case or two - so that you have a way to keep your stuff dry and dust-free - and are able to access it from the tent when you need.

Cheers
Chris

http://www.omaroo.net/albums/album23/P2060151.sized.jpg

http://www.omaroo.net/albums/album13/P3250008.sized.jpg

Greylandy
18th September 2006, 12:46 PM
Apologies if this sounds like like a plug ... but it is!!! :D

It's all about the gear. The best option will be a rooftop tent with appropriate tourer annexe attached. Adults in the tent ... kids on the floor with access to the car in bad weather. Setup takes minutes.

If you get the right roof rack to go with it, you will have ample space at the front of the rack for "all the clothes" spare tyres etc.

http://www.hannibalsafari.com.au/images/jumboTourer.jpg

weeds
18th September 2006, 12:55 PM
hey steve

can i tag along, damn wish i could but with megs going to canada in may next year i have no $$$ to go on an really long trip

if i can talk megs into an extended trip i will go with a hannibal self supporting awaning with zip on/clip on sides, good for shade during the day and put the sides on for night. with the awning being self supporting no need for ropes and pegs. a maye of mine has a similar setup with one on each side of the roof rack one an under cover eating/cooking area and the other with sides to sleep in.

when i crossed the simpson i took swags for a quick setup, everything is rolled, matress, sheets, doona, pillow. I hate sleeping bags as they are not wide enough

weeds
18th September 2006, 12:56 PM
you beat me to it greylandie, similar suggestion

PCH
18th September 2006, 01:21 PM
Like Greylandy said.

Rooftop tent with annex like this works well. The roofrack is full length and has storage space out the front of the tent (about 1000mm by 1200mm).

2 adults and a 6 year old can sleep up in the tent up top (very cosy). The annex has heaps of room for 2 adults or 3 kids and bags etc... when camping.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2006/09/196.jpg

numpty
18th September 2006, 01:39 PM
We did the same sort of trip years ago with 2 small children. As I recall we had the tent poles on the roof, along with jerrycans (never again), and a canoe.

Everything else was in the back, including the tent, but it was one of the first items out and last in on packing up. We found apple boxes ideal to pack not only food in but all our clothes as well. We had sleeping bags and air beds pumped up by hand. It means the back is packed to the roof but we somehow managed to get set-up time down to about 30mins, and no matter what system we use set-up time is still about 30mins.

Bushie's daughter was only 6 months old and he had 180 disposable nappies on his roof rack :p

Numpty's Missus

scrambler
18th September 2006, 01:51 PM
Bushie's daughter was only 6 months old and he had 180 disposable nappies on his roof rack :p

Numpty's Missus

I'm not sure if I want to know if they were burned, bashed, buried or carried :eek:

In these environmentally responsible times, that's a lot of smelly stuff to lug out again!

Steve

Omaroo
18th September 2006, 02:04 PM
Just remember - whatever you do, DON'T go with a full-length rack with a rooftop tent on it. They don't flex if they're built from steel like the ARB rack. A mate of mine used to rent Defenders out to people touring the country. He had full-length racks and every car came in with a separated roof at some time or other. The racks held the roof straight while the body tried to flex under it - effectively peeling the roof off after a while. This is the reason that I went for a separate 1/2 rack at the rear obly. Still allows the whole shebang to move around as it wants to.

Greylandy
18th September 2006, 02:41 PM
Just remember - whatever you do, DON'T go with a full-length rack with a rooftop tent on it. They don't flex if they're built from steel like the ARB rack. A mate of mine used to rent Defenders out to people touring the country. He had full-length racks and every car came in with a separated roof at some time or other. The racks held the roof straight while the body tried to flex under it - effectively peeling the roof off after a while. This is the reason that I went for a separate 1/2 rack at the rear obly. Still allows the whole shebang to move around as it wants to.

Get a Hannibal or rackmaster full length rack. The are made from alu and will flex under load. I am surprised it has taken so long for these products to reach Australia, arguably one of the biggest markets for 4WD gear. They've been available in Europe/US for yonks and are far superior to the ARB/TJM variants.

Sorry I can't help myself ... I'll change my username to Hannibal_whore!! :D

PCH
18th September 2006, 03:24 PM
I'd better go cut the rack in half then.:)

Defender bodies and roofs are aluminium and rivetted aren't they? Might be a reason why the full steel rack gave problems.

Top rail on mine only goes part way round the rack so it wouldn't be as ridged as a rack with two rails right round. The body is steel and welded so maybe I'll have less problems with the Disco.

Chris

numpty
18th September 2006, 03:43 PM
I'm not sure if I want to know if they were burned, bashed, buried or carried :eek:

In these environmentally responsible times, that's a lot of smelly stuff to lug out again!

Steve

Proper disposal of all things is a bit of a worry. Nappies, plastic, cans...it all has to go somewhere. We try to take all rubbish out and dispose of it in a tip, or rubbish bin but in reality it still ends up as land fill somewhere. At least none of my rubbish will be found strewn around some overflowing bin in a place that its certain it will never be emptied, as you all too often find.

No...the nappies mostly got burnt each night. Not the ideal way to deal with them but probably the best considering the type of trip and distance between towns. Otherwise it would be a case of :confused::confused::confused::confused:

Numpty's Missus

Captain_Rightfoot
18th September 2006, 04:58 PM
WOW what a lot of great responses. :) Thanks everyone. This forum really is great :)

I am going to start working through your responses after the kids are in bed later.

The only thing I will say now is that on our last trip we burnt the nappies each night. They seemed to dissapear leaving no trace. The only people that didn't find this solution optimal were the people sleeping around the fire in swags :D :D

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I'm fairly big (6"3) the wife is tall to. We will have a 3.5yo who should be over a metre tall by then and a 1yo which should still be fairly "compact" :)

Captain_Rightfoot
18th September 2006, 09:36 PM
Tourer tent is heavy enough without whacking more weight in it.. even heavier when wet..
I've had enough of trying to discus-throw the tourer tent onto the roofrack.
I've seen two roof tents on a Defender before. Only have to solve where to store clothes in this instance.
And where do you have your second spare?
Regards
Max P

Tusker... this was our original plan.. but I think you're right. It would be too much having to heave a bag up there with a travelling tent and all the bedding in.

Our second spare will be in the back (should be enough room) or on the bonnet.



You could always buy our rooftop tent and the rack to go with it. Tent is for sale in the "Markets" section, and is designed to mountthe way I have it in this photo - with the ladder going to the bull bar.

The rack will take an ARB space case or two - so that you have a way to keep your stuff dry and dust-free - and are able to access it from the tent when you need.

Cheers
Chris


Chris... what are the exact internal dimensions of your tent? As mentioned we have two adults, a 3.5 yo and a 1 yo. They are a bit small to be sleeping separately from us yet I think.


hey steve
can i tag along, damn wish i could but with megs going to canada in may next year i have no $$$ to go on an really long trip
if i can talk megs into an extended trip i will go with a hannibal self supporting awaning with zip on/clip on sides, good for shade during the day and put the sides on for night. with the awning being self supporting no need for ropes and pegs. a maye of mine has a similar setup with one on each side of the roof rack one an under cover eating/cooking area and the other with sides to sleep in.
when i crossed the simpson i took swags for a quick setup, everything is rolled, matress, sheets, doona, pillow. I hate sleeping bags as they are not wide enough

Talk to me about the tag along ;) As to swags.. It's not really a practical idea for a 1yo and wife :o


Like Greylandy said.
Rooftop tent with annex like this works well. The roofrack is full length and has storage space out the front of the tent (about 1000mm by 1200mm).
2 adults and a 6 year old can sleep up in the tent up top (very cosy). The annex has heaps of room for 2 adults or 3 kids and bags etc... when camping.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2006/09/196.jpg

Looks great... how long did it take to set up each night? How much did the setup weigh?



We did the same sort of trip years ago with 2 small children. As I recall we had the tent poles on the roof, along with jerrycans (never again), and a canoe.

Everything else was in the back, including the tent, but it was one of the first items out and last in on packing up. We found apple boxes ideal to pack not only food in but all our clothes as well. We had sleeping bags and air beds pumped up by hand. It means the back is packed to the roof but we somehow managed to get set-up time down to about 30mins, and no matter what system we use set-up time is still about 30mins.

Bushie's daughter was only 6 months old and he had 180 disposable nappies on his roof rack :p

Numpty's Missus

This is basically how we did our Simpson trip. I'm not sure how old your kids are.. but ours are at a age when 1 of the two parents needs to be on guard all the time so that only leaves 1 parent to set up camp.

I'm afraid that setting up even a quick tent (tourer) and then deploying bedding was too much for us on a everyday basis. When the kids are old enough to play while the adults set up I think this will be viable for us. The packing up is a double whammy in the morning.

So, given that is our scenario, I reckon I'll be setting up camp for another 2 trips single handed, so I'd really like something **quick**.

On our last trip we were travelling with 6 other people and none had kids. By the time we stopped, and then set up camp and bedding, had dinner and washed up it was 8-8:30. We'd get to sit in our chair around the fire for 30 minutes before everyone went to bed because they had already been lounging around in front of the fire for an hour or more.

Packing up in the morning was the same thing... we were working like crazy to match everyone elses leisurely pack up. It was the only major negative to the trip. Anything that helps is good.

Greylandy/hannibal whore :D we need to talk! Any solutions for 2 adults and two small children?

PCH
19th September 2006, 07:43 AM
Captain Rightfoot,

The Howling Moon Rooftop tourer has external dimensions of 1200mm W * 2400mm L (when folded out). I'm not sure of the internal dims but they would be only marginally smaller. The tent weighs 65kg. The annex weighs around 6-7kg.

It takes about 20 mins to unpack and set up. The zip on annex takes about 10 mins to fit and then peg down.

I'm 6' my wife is 5' and my 6yo is 3.5' and it is cosy for all three. When the 6yo gets bigger he won't be able to sleep up top.

Chris.

p38arover
19th September 2006, 08:27 AM
Get a Hannibal or rackmaster full length rack. The are made from alu and will flex under load. I am surprised it has taken so long for these products to reach Australia, arguably one of the biggest markets for 4WD gear. They've been available in Europe/US for yonks and are far superior to the ARB/TJM variants.

Sorry I can't help myself ... I'll change my username to Hannibal_whore!! :D

Henry, frighten me. What is the price of the HR09 rack for the P38A?

I'm sitting down. :D

Ron

Captain_Rightfoot
19th September 2006, 06:04 PM
Ok... we've been thinking about this. I think the 1400x2400 size is nearly big enough for us. I would like one that's just a little bigger though. Any ideas?

I know it won't be a long term solution for us but the kids are too small yet to sleep away from us.

We are all off to arb to have a lie in one this weekend.

sclarke
19th September 2006, 06:47 PM
You missed out on my Fully Sealled Fibreglass ones...
There is still one avail in WA but it is Used....
i think $800

Captain_Rightfoot
19th September 2006, 08:31 PM
You missed out on my Fully Sealled Fibreglass ones...
There is still one avail in WA but it is Used....
i think $800
How big are they?

We've seen a couple that are 1.6m by 2.4. We reckon these might be big enough to fit the two kids along the length of the tent. We've found a couple of these.

Hannibal 1.6x2.4 (http://www.hannibalsafari.com.au/images/Peter%20Spowart%20Brochure.pdf)

Eziawn have one too. (http://www.4wdworld.com.au/products/rooftoptents/index.htm)

There is even a double here! 90kG (http://www.apexleisure.com.au/)

Captain_Rightfoot
21st September 2006, 06:00 AM
I've been talking to the Hannibal distributor/importer in QLD. :)

He seems to be very helpfull and is going to do a demo just for us of the 1600x2.4 M one. I think this would last us until we don't want the kids sleeping with us anymore. :eek: That should be at least 5 years.

Then apparently there are annexes that can be attached to it. We must stay focused on the goal of all this and that is to have a quick setup though :)

numpty
21st September 2006, 03:47 PM
All this talk of small kids reminds me of how we used to go camping with a cot. Yep!! A cot. A small one that folded flat with the legs cut off...worked a treat.

Numpty's Missus

Diff
29th October 2006, 09:42 PM
Boy am I glad to see all this talk about camping with kids. I thought i was the only one. We have tried caravans, camper trailers and tents all have their own pit falls. Regardless they all take 30min to set up and pack up. I can set up our dome tent, the kitchen and blow up the beds and crack a beer befor my mate finishes with his camper trailer.

Roof top tents are great for over night stops but the suck for anything over that. Go for a long week end with one and you either stay put or pack up every time you want to go for a drive. We brought a ship shape roof top but decided against using it for this reason. We will onsell it and put the money into a quality box trailer.

We took our four and six year olds to the cape this year and they had a ball, but it is easier now they will play while we pack up. we take turns with the duties I do the major set up while the wife does the kids then she dose tne minor details while I play with the kids and have the first beer, or coffee if we are packing up.

weeds
3rd November 2006, 07:55 PM
I've been talking to the Hannibal distributor/importer in QLD. :)

He seems to be very helpfull and is going to do a demo just for us of the 1600x2.4 M one. I think this would last us until we don't want the kids sleeping with us anymore. :eek: That should be at least 5 years.

Then apparently there are annexes that can be attached to it. We must stay focused on the goal of all this and that is to have a quick setup though :)

how did the demo go

have you thought about the 'i need to go to the toilet in the middle of the night tap on the shoulder'

Turtle61
3rd November 2006, 08:38 PM
Small kids - you don't want them falling out of a roof-top tent - I have one 2 year-old and you have 2 little ones.... need eyes in the back of your head and I personally would not risk her crawling out of a tent 7 foot off the ground.

What I have (not tried with the little one yet) is a 10x8 touring tent (http://www.freedomcamping.com.au/bc.html) - enough space to fit 4 adults comfortably, set up take less then 5 minutes: if I am slack it's 4 pegs and the centre pole. With that I had a self-inflating mattress: unclip strps let it self-inflate... rolling it up took a bit longer. It ain't that heavy for me (16kg) and it packs quite flat. Used to live at the bottom of my SII. Good zips and mesh kept the unwanted guests out.

The mattress was just chucked in the back at the end... after a few days you get to be an expert of folding the tent and it takes less and less time to set up and put away. If you're close to town and run out of milk (or worse - beer) and the little ones are asleep you can leave them one of you and get more supplies. Dare ya to drive away with the kids in a roof-top :eek:

If you have the space, port-cot is not a bad idea - you can use it at night and also as a play-pan during the day.

http://homepage.mac.com/igolka/CapeYork/Pix/Laura02.jpg
Laura - Cape York, 2000

LoadedDisco
3rd November 2006, 09:53 PM
If you're close to town and run out of milk (or worse - beer) and the little ones are asleep you can leave them one of you and get more supplies. Dare ya to drive away with the kids in a roof-top :eek:



Very good point dare having to drive away in the middle of the night for an emergency. Of course we all would not want to find a situation when off relaxing and 4WDing.
Personally in this drought parched land we live in if I woke up to a bush fire about to roar through or a snake bite, I would like to just leave the tent start the car and put it in D.
If you have kids and feel the tent thing is to much wait and save for a Camp Trailer.

Captain_Rightfoot
7th November 2006, 06:30 AM
Ok... the update is we haven't had the demo! I am still procrastinating on this. I just don't know what to do!

I like the idea of the rooftop tent for the following reasons.

1. quick to set up.
2. up and away from pests (could be a positive for a cape trip)

The downsides are.

1. Can't go anywhere and leave it set up.
2. Heavy on the roof and expensive.
3. Falling out of bed.
4. Even a 1600x2400 one will be quite small for 4 people. It will only be useable for 5 years tops until the kids get bigger.

We already have a tourer tent. The problem is not packing the tent so much as all the bedding. I really need a solution that enables me to fold the tent and all the bedding into a bag or something and whack it up on the roof.

None of the people we travel with have kids, and there is just too much work with kids to keep up with them. I need a competitive advantage so that packup and setup isn't stressful. :o

As I was riding on the bus last night I thought about making a fibreglass box to stuff the tent into that could then be slid up on the roof. **sigh**

weeds
7th November 2006, 08:55 AM
there no way megs would have ever travelled the trips you are doing with two little one 3 or there abouts and under, actually megs does not rough it any more

are you planning on fitting a roof rack or is your roof storage limited to the capsule thingy that i think you purchased

if you go the full roof rack than i think the quickest will be your tourer along with swags. swags i like as its only 1 minute to roll up/roll out and everthing is together matress, sheets, doona, pj's, pillow, tourch etc downside is they take a lot of room.

i'm not convinced you will be able to reduce your setup time by a big margin

is the pplan still to do the canning stock route, how many weeks for the whole trip return to brizzy

Captain_Rightfoot
7th November 2006, 12:21 PM
there no way megs would have ever travelled the trips you are doing with two little one 3 or there abouts and under, actually megs does not rough it any more

are you planning on fitting a roof rack or is your roof storage limited to the capsule thingy that i think you purchased

if you go the full roof rack than i think the quickest will be your tourer along with swags. swags i like as its only 1 minute to roll up/roll out and everthing is together matress, sheets, doona, pj's, pillow, tourch etc downside is they take a lot of room.

i'm not convinced you will be able to reduce your setup time by a big margin

is the pplan still to do the canning stock route, how many weeks for the whole trip return to brizzy
Roughly the plan is through the simpson again (why not??) and then up the canning. The time is 6-8 weeks at this stage. The details though are still hazy. Any of the above could still change but that's what I'm working on.

I know I'll probably have to buy a roof rack of some description. It depends on what way we go with all of this as to what I do with the roof. I'm sure the rooftop tent is the quickest. I know I'll only get 4-5 years out of it at best though. I just don't know yet, but time is a ticking :O

I'm determined not to leave it to the last minute like last time. I want to have all the car improvements finalised by a proposed Fraser trip in March. I think MR could write it into their business plan :eek: :eek:

numpty
7th November 2006, 07:06 PM
We did all those sorts of trips...eg Simpson Desert with small kids. When we did the Simpson our kids were 6 and 2 and Bushies daughter was 6months old. We (Bushie and I) had Freedom canvas tents. We had no trouble packing everything up and getting away from camp within 1 1/2 hours of getting up. Its a case of each person having set jobs, doing it all exactly the same each day. The kids seem to adapt to the routine after a bit as well. You can pack up bedding with the kids in the tent. If necessary you can sit them in the car when you are both folding the tent. Like I said...its all in the routine.

1103.9TDI
26th January 2007, 10:30 PM
Try one of these.......................http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/2507273296.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4603127) with an Oztent, you can't go wrong!.:D

Captain_Rightfoot
27th January 2007, 06:33 AM
Ok, I owe you all an update!

I've decided against the roof tent with the main reason being that they really just won't be big enough. I looked at a Freedom Northern Tourer which is 2.6 x 3.2 and I think this is the size we need for 2 adults and 2 kids for a way into the future. I think roof tents are sensational... I just don't think they are an option for a family with 2 young kids.

We are most probably going to buy a humungus roof box for storage at the moment. This is because they are quick to load, and very aerodynamic so shouldn't cost much to drive. Also, fitting is a problem for us as we don't have the height to leave it on all the time. Full size roof racks need 4 strong men to fit them. I can get a roof box up and fitted with 2 or 1 and a girl at a pinch :D :D

Our bedding will be a foam matress rolled with all bedding in place. That way you just un-roll it and off you go :)