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Ace
25th September 2006, 11:09 AM
Hi all, i am looking for a cheap video camera, when i say cheap i mean cheap, less than $100 if possible we are going to get a good digital later but i want one to play around with in the mean time to take on the 4wd trips etc. I have been looking on ebay at some cheap ones, i clearly can get a decent digital one for that price but there are a few reasonable VHS and 8mm ones. I dont know much about them so i was wondering if someone could give me a few ideas on what i should be looking for? Which one is better? and if i get one can i get the stuff onto a computer to edit it? Matt

Redback
25th September 2006, 11:16 AM
If you can get one a new one for less than $300 i'll be suprised, no shocked, second hand analog videos are still not cheap but if i saw one for $100 or less, i wouldn't buy it, mate your better off just waiting and buying a good digital one, there some good bargins around on the Sony handy cam digitals.

Baz.

loanrangie
25th September 2006, 11:16 AM
Hi Ace, if your budget was a bit higher i have a 8mm camera that has only ever had 3 tapes in it that i will be selling on ebay, it needs a new battery but has the mains adapter and a few leads as well as a case. You can also get a USB to av cable to download onto a pc. When i get home i will email a pic to you and price.

regards,
nick.

dobbo
25th September 2006, 11:33 AM
Ace

Any 8mm footage can be saved in a digital format.

p38arover
25th September 2006, 11:34 AM
I should sell my Sony Video 8 camera. I haven't used it in years.

Ron

Ace
25th September 2006, 11:44 AM
Hi Baz, i am talking second hand here, its unlikely i will get one for less than a hundred bucks, there are a few cheap ones on ebay but they have a few bidders so will most likely sell for closer to $200

At the moment the budget is tight i have my parents old one to borrow but they dont want to sell it so i am going to play with it on the weekend and go from there. It might be a week or two, i am just working out what i can get for the money we are going to canberra to do some research for a uni assignment at the botanical gardens and to visit floriade plus take marcos to Questacon and the Zoo so until i get back and give week or two for the finances recover.

Hi loanrnagie, send me the details mate and we can discuss something if you can wait a few weeks i would be interested. Can you still get new batteries for them?

Ron, how much would you want for yours?

loanrangie
25th September 2006, 11:48 AM
Ace, new batteries are available from Jaycar for $55.95 ( i just checked ) and they are a higher capacity than standard, i will send you the details and if you are interestd i can even pickup a battery for you as jc are fairly close to work.

Ace
25th September 2006, 12:01 PM
Ace, new batteries are available from Jaycar for $55.95 ( i just checked ) and they are a higher capacity than standard, i will send you the details and if you are interestd i can even pickup a battery for you as jc are fairly close to work.

No worries PM me the details and we can work something out if the price is right.

Ok, once i have the USB cable to go from camera to computer what do i need on the computer? Is there a video car or something i need or software to download to and then edit with? Matt

loanrangie
25th September 2006, 12:37 PM
You can use movie maker which comes with XP that is easy to use and i find works well.

Ace
25th September 2006, 02:53 PM
You can use movie maker which comes with XP that is easy to use and i find works well.

No worries thanks. Matt

Quiggers
25th September 2006, 04:02 PM
Matt, just be careful about buying anything cheap, as the cheap stuff new can be less than fullfilling and used stuff, well, it's used and probably on the way out to an unsuspecting buyer.

If you're going to edit on a computer, unless you have a real time 'video in' card and its related software, you'll need a camera that has firewire or USB2.

Remember, one frame of television is about 1.27 mb of space and there's 25 of them in every second - thats at normal PAL 625/50 color tv which is 768 x 576 pixels at 72 dpi (tv needs no more).

GQ

Ace
25th September 2006, 09:04 PM
If you're going to edit on a computer, unless you have a real time 'video in' card and its related software, you'll need a camera that has firewire or USB2.

Remember, one frame of television is about 1.27 mb of space and there's 25 of them in every second - thats at normal PAL 625/50 color tv which is 768 x 576 pixels at 72 dpi (tv needs no more).

GQ

Can you explain some of that a bit more please. I assume i can purchase a video in card at any computer store, or from Uncle Inc, would the software but camera brand specific or is there a piece of software that just does the job? Whats firewire, and whats the difference between USB and USB2? Matt

Quiggers
25th September 2006, 09:39 PM
Matt:

Version 1:
1) Some camcorders output (playback) only via a video/audio connector, e.g. these are generaly the same as you'd find on a VHS machine. The video cable is generally a yellow RCA type connector. The audio if stereo is red and white.

2) To get the camera to talk to a computer, the computer needs a way of accepting the camera. If you don't already have it, a video card (as in tv standard, not gamer stuff) is the piece.

3) You'll need a piece of software which captures video (and audio). and this will probably be a basic edit system as well. Sorry I'm not familiar with
whats available for pc as I use Macs.

Version 2:
1) Newer camcorders output via a link to your computer, either via firewire or USB2. Your question: firewire is just another data transfer which is very fast. It was available long before USB2 which is almost as fast. USB 1 is very slow for transferring mass data such as video.

2) Given you have a camera which is firewire or USB, your computer probably has a socket to plug in and from here see 3) above.

Others here I know are far more specific about what works on windows type machines than me, put up what your machine is specifically and we'll try to marry you up with what you need.

Cheers, GQ

Ace
26th September 2006, 08:31 AM
Matt:

Version 1:
1) Some camcorders output (playback) only via a video/audio connector, e.g. these are generaly the same as you'd find on a VHS machine. The video cable is generally a yellow RCA type connector. The audio if stereo is red and white.

2) To get the camera to talk to a computer, the computer needs a way of accepting the camera. If you don't already have it, a video card (as in tv standard, not gamer stuff) is the piece.

3) You'll need a piece of software which captures video (and audio). and this will probably be a basic edit system as well. Sorry I'm not familiar with
whats available for pc as I use Macs.

Version 2:
1) Newer camcorders output via a link to your computer, either via firewire or USB2. Your question: firewire is just another data transfer which is very fast. It was available long before USB2 which is almost as fast. USB 1 is very slow for transferring mass data such as video.

2) Given you have a camera which is firewire or USB, your computer probably has a socket to plug in and from here see 3) above.

Others here I know are far more specific about what works on windows type machines than me, put up what your machine is specifically and we'll try to marry you up with what you need.

Cheers, GQ

Thanks mate very helpful. matt

dobbo
26th September 2006, 08:39 AM
A digital camera which records M Peg files is another cheap option, or a laptop and a webcam, the laptop can have a duel function as a gps map navigator and for you with your course and job could be tax deductable, or an Ipod and a webcam

Yabbie
26th September 2006, 09:29 AM
Come on Ace tell us the real reason you getting a Video Camera for :twisted:


I don't think Mrs's Ace will like it if you start one of them websites:eek: :twisted: :wasntme: :angel:

Ace
26th September 2006, 10:56 AM
Come on Ace tell us the real reason you getting a Video Camera for :twisted:


I don't think Mrs's Ace will like it if you start one of them websites:eek: :twisted: :wasntme: :angel:

That offends me Jason, i am reporting you. :twisted:


















Nah, just kidding get your mind out of the gutter. :D

Quiggers
26th September 2006, 02:43 PM
The sultan already has 'one of them websites'

and it's full of Land Rovers!

GQ

51jay
26th September 2006, 03:02 PM
Check out www.supacam.com.au (http://www.supacam.com.au).
Also if anyone has experience of this DVD camera/recorder I'd like to hear about it

Ace
26th September 2006, 03:03 PM
The sultan already has 'one of them websites'

and it's full of Land Rovers!

GQ

Thats because landies are cheaper to keep, when you arent using them they sit quietly in the shed, something women fail to master for some reason. :D

Quiggers
26th September 2006, 03:16 PM
That's the first time i've laughed out loud for a day or two, thank you Ace!

You're a funny guy!

Re:supacam.com etc.

I've had a quick look and on the surface it seems to good to be true, $365 for that, like, wow!

However, it says it runs at 30 frames per second for video...that's the US NTSC (525/60 4.43) standard rate of speed (actually 29.96)

Our Aussie standard is 25 frames per second (PAL 625/50), and the two are NOT compatible, especially when it comes to editing...

I'll do some more checking....

GQ

Quiggers
26th September 2006, 03:22 PM
Checked it: their quote on specs:

"VGA 640x480 pixels at 30fps
QVGA 320x240 pixels at 30fps"

Aussie tv is 768 x 576 pixels at 25fps.

But......if you're only ever going to run it thru a computer, running its own edit software, then the format issue is not important.

I'd want a good warranty for this device, sounds a bit "DEMTEL"....

Cheers, GQ

dobbo
26th September 2006, 04:57 PM
As I said previously could Ace run a webcam of a Ipod?

The Ipod would be cheap for him and possibly tax deductable for he is a student and webcams nowadays are next to nothing. For 4wding vids it would be a very cheap option for him.

adm333
26th September 2006, 05:18 PM
Matt:

Version 1:
1) Some camcorders output (playback) only via a video/audio connector, e.g. these are generaly the same as you'd find on a VHS machine. The video cable is generally a yellow RCA type connector. The audio if stereo is red and white.

2) To get the camera to talk to a computer, the computer needs a way of accepting the camera. If you don't already have it, a video card (as in tv standard, not gamer stuff) is the piece.

3) You'll need a piece of software which captures video (and audio). and this will probably be a basic edit system as well. Sorry I'm not familiar with
whats available for pc as I use Macs.

Version 2:
1) Newer camcorders output via a link to your computer, either via firewire or USB2. Your question: firewire is just another data transfer which is very fast. It was available long before USB2 which is almost as fast. USB 1 is very slow for transferring mass data such as video.

2) Given you have a camera which is firewire or USB, your computer probably has a socket to plug in and from here see 3) above.

Others here I know are far more specific about what works on windows type machines than me, put up what your machine is specifically and we'll try to marry you up with what you need.

Cheers, GQ

Ace

In version 1 part 3 referred to by Quiggers, there is an excellent piece of software for doing this job and it is freely available. It is called Virtual Dub and available at http://www.virtualdub.org/

It will convert an analog video in signal to a digital file through a standard tv capture card and you can set the compression (essentially the quality / file size) to whatever suits you.

Cheers
Dave

adm333
26th September 2006, 05:22 PM
However, it says it runs at 30 frames per second for video...that's the US NTSC (525/60 4.43) standard rate of speed (actually 29.96)

GQ

NTSC - Never Twice Same Colour

:p :p

<technical joke>

51jay
26th September 2006, 05:30 PM
Re the Supacam DVX

Seems queer they use the US standard. They are an Aust company and say it was designed in UK and made in Taiwan (I have no complaints at all about Taiwanese electronics)
I saw this gadget on the Sherrin Motorsport stand at Jamboree at $395 they said most of their publicity pics and video were made with it.
I'm going to the opening of their new Bris retail outlet on Saturday so I'll check it out some more.

DiscoCam
26th September 2006, 10:30 PM
You could try here for a cheap camera http://www.graysonline.com.au/catalogue.asp?SALE_ID=19488&SALE_TYPE=THUMB
(http://www.graysonline.com.au/catalogue.asp?SALE_ID=19488&SALE_TYPE=THUMB)
They have a Panasonic Digital model and current bidding is around $200. Watch the buyers fees and freight though as they can quickly turn a bargain quite expensive.

Get a camera with firewire out and then it's a simple matter of adding a firewire capture card $30 and you can capture to your hard disk for editing. If you want to do more than edit out shots of the ground etc you will need to consider upgrading your PC as it's fairly resource intensive and places a lot of stress on you hard disk.

Good luck.

Cameron

Quiggers
26th September 2006, 10:42 PM
Dobbo: Sorry, can't comment on that, but you've given me idea, in terms of mass storage and video, well thought and very lateral.

adm333: NTSC national television systems color - pick any colour you like and it'll change soon enough, i still have a 1974 Sony CVM1310 tv/monitor with the 'hue' control, and we thought it was so good! (colour telly)

51jay: I'm not knocking the supacam, it sounds very interesting, find out as much as you can re tech specs and if possible, shoot a minute or so of footage and plug it in to a (Australian spec) tv and check the playback. There's a million more tech issues here but I'm not going to.....

Another note just to confuse things further: Aussie tv 625 lines 50 hz PAL D colour 768 x 576 pixels is the old pre widescreen standard - the powers that be are still arguing about what exactly widescreen is, specs wise.

Ace, thanks for this thread, it 's been fascinating. Save a hundred bucks and borrow a camera, or in the short term, get a good basic device from a renter mob maybe.

If it was me, I'd save my pennies and get a JVC hard drive camera - (I'm not endorsing JVC, Sony has been my tools of trade for millenia).

(But, this supacam IS interesting, if it racks up quality wise).

Cheers, GQ

dobbo
26th September 2006, 10:58 PM
I just checked it out and yes you can get a webcam for an Ipod

Quiggers
26th September 2006, 11:13 PM
Thanks dobbo. I really should look more into what iPods can do, given there are a few in this household.

There's something like 2,000 accessories available for iPod. I'll have the beer maker, the lobster catcher, Top Gear running 24 hours a day and the seat warmer, (someones never going to live that one down).

cheers, GQ

Ace
28th September 2006, 10:45 AM
Hi Quiggers, no worries mate, happy to offer a laugh whenever i can.

Numpty's Missus, :angel: , forgot there were females ihabiting the forum now, must learn to behave. :D

Thanks for all the help guys.

I am after reasonable quality as i want to put them on a series of DVDs to keep so marcos can look back on them when he is older, and so i can aswell. I want to start keeping a video record of every trip i actually manage to go on (one tape should cover that :D ) as with any luck i will be able to get out a bit more next year now marcos is at the age were a day away with dad in the car isnt to much of a problem. I would love one of the new 30Gb digital video cameras and will get something equivalent or better when i can afford the dosh but in the mean time i want to hone my skills on something cheaper and an older video camera is the go i reckon. I am going to borrow mum and dads for the weekend and see how i go and then when i have the cash look at buying loanrangies with any luck.

I also had no idea Ipods could do such marvellous things. What sort of quality will they capture? Matt

Quiggers
28th September 2006, 11:06 AM
Ace, I picked a Samsung Hi-8 analogue type camcorder in April last year, when retravision were doing specials, for $358. It expired after 13 months and is unfixable. One lives and learns. Samsung wouldn't do a thing about it as it was a month out of warranty....bah! So more Samsung stuff for me...

If you go used, just be careful...

You could maybe get one of those no interest no repayments for a few years deals from a major retailer. A thousand buck camera would then only cost you maybe $5-$10 a week, and if you get a 30gb hard drive type, you'll save a heap in buying videotapes (as you wont need any), the savings on tapes would pay for the camera!

A camera that is tapeless has to be the way to go.

Cheers, GQ

PS Someone mentioned buying thru Grays Online, I've bought a few things thru them and have saved quite a lot of $$$. A new superceded, all in one printer/scanner/etc, was paid and delivered for just $74, it was the previous model, but no different to the newest model which was retailing for $399...HP change the design every week I think.

loanrangie
28th September 2006, 11:48 AM
I just checked it out and yes you can get a webcam for an Ipod

An ipod with a decent storage capacity is as much as a digi camera and the quality wont be as good, ok if already have an ipod.

Ace
28th September 2006, 01:10 PM
You could maybe get one of those no interest no repayments for a few years deals from a major retailer. A thousand buck camera would then only cost you maybe $5-$10 a week, and if you get a 30gb hard drive type, you'll save a heap in buying videotapes (as you wont need any), the savings on tapes would pay for the camera!

Got one of those, the card is maxed out after we bought a new drier, washing machine, bed for marcos and the digital camera we have. I will be using that but want to pay off what we have rather than up the limit and buy ontop of it. Its a shame cause Harvey Norman in Bathurst is doing 40months interest free at the moment. Matt

dobbo
28th September 2006, 01:36 PM
An ipod with a decent storage capacity is as much as a digi camera and the quality wont be as good, ok if already have an ipod.


I just thought of an IPOD basically because Ace is a student he could get one for next to nothing, no the quality would not be as good but neither is the expense, I have been considering the same idea for my wife when she does cross sountry in her horse events

Quiggers
28th September 2006, 02:46 PM
It's a good idea dobbo.