Sand Ladders / Bridging Planks

[Xtreme]

Has anyone had any experience with lightweight sand ladders?

I am investigating the possibility of carrying some for a Madigan Line crossing of the Simpson next year. Was thinking of aluminium, probably 2 to 2.4m long, able to be bolted/clipped together (lengthwise), and possibly even able to form the base of a roof rack as a means of carrying them and as a dual usage function.

Any ideas / thoughts / experiences would be welcome.

Roger

[dobbo]

I have often wondered about these myself

If you used them as a base for the roof rack wouldn't you then have to unload all of the roof racked equipment to use them?

[vogue]

Interesting artile in Nov 2006 4wdMonthly on the Maxtrax, which are a plastic sand ladder. Just not sure if there worth $295 a pair?
Has anyone used them?

[defenderbilby]

G'day Roger,

Have a look at this. Have no experience with the product but might be helpful.
http://www.gratingco.com.au/bridging.shtml

David.

[Bigbjorn]

Has anyone had any experience with lightweight sand ladders?

I am investigating the possibility of carrying some for a Madigan Line crossing of the Simpson next year. Was thinking of aluminium, probably 2 to 2.4m long, able to be bolted/clipped together (lengthwise), and possibly even able to form the base of a roof rack as a means of carrying them and as a dual usage function.

Any ideas / thoughts / experiences would be welcome.

Roger

I note from the photos of military LR's on this site that the brown jobs are still carrying Marston matting ( or pierced steel planks, "PSP"). Bit too heavy to be carrying a decent length of it. Has anyone tried a roll of shadecloth or maybe barricade mesh ( the orange stuff at roadworks sites)? Wonder how either would stand up to a vehicle rolling over them. The heavier shadecloth would probably be OK if you were not spinning wheels, just using it for the sandwich effect between tyres and sand to prevent digging in. You could even use it for shade whilst camped. Be a bloody site easier to handle & carry than PSP.

[Xtreme]

I have often wondered about these myself

If you used them as a base for the roof rack wouldn't you then have to unload all of the roof racked equipment to use them?

I like the idea of equipment having a dual purpose and only envisage that the 'ladders' would be used rarely to get you through extremely difficult terrain. Also, I would not be carrying much on roof rack - probably only a few spare tyre casings so these would fit inside for short durations, or even simply be tossed on the ground until through/over the obstacle.

Roger

[Xtreme]

G'day Roger,

Have a look at this. Have no experience with the product but might be helpful.
http://www.gratingco.com.au/bridging.shtml

David.

Thanks David

Looks good - especially durability, strength and weight-wise.
I'll follow up with Grating Co re price and availability.

Roger

[stuart]

Morning,

We have stock of these from the UK Known as waffle boards in the UK...

$250.00 inc tax a pair...Part No WAFFLEBOARD (Scorpion)

Stuart


Thanks David

Looks good - especially durability, strength and weight-wise.
I'll follow up with Grating Co re price and availability.

Roger

[waynep]

Those plastic ones reviewed in the last 4WD Monthly - they melted !! but they still gave them a good review.

I've also seen some in Ray's made out of old car tyres cut into strips similar to those outside doormats you see - they roll up. Bushranger brand I think ? Bit bulky though.

Here I found a link http://www.bushranger.com.au/sandtrack.php

[Coastie]

I have a pair of Matrax http://www.maxtrax.com.au/ in the garage, my mother in law won them of all things. Haven't had the need to use them yet. They are fairly light weight but take up a fair bit of room. I think they need to be carried on the roof for ease of access. I don't know if I'd pay that amount of money either.

They are only 1.2m in length and can't be joined together. Good for unbogging in sand but I don't know about lengthy traverses.

I have a DVD of the vehicles getting stuck in many places mud sand etc but all are short recoveries.

[Xtreme]

Morning,

We have stock of these from the UK Known as waffle boards in the UK...

$250.00 inc tax a pair...Part No WAFFLEBOARD (Scorpion)

Stuart

G'day Stuart,

I notice that Grating Co have these in quite a range of sizes and strengths.
What are the dimensions of the ones you stock and what is the load rating (or recommended unsupported span width) as I will probably need to use these for 'bridging' as well as assisting in sand traction.

Roger

[FenianEel]

Some plastic ones were reviewed in the last 4WD Monthly - they melted !! but they still gave them a good review.

I've also seen some in Ray's made out of old car tyres cut into strips similar to those outside doormats you see - they roll up. Bushranger brand I think ? Bit bulky though.

They were the Maxtrax and they didn't melt. One small part about 3 inches was scored/melted where they spun the tyres continuously on them. I've seen them in action they are awesome.
They are bulky though (although light) and not cheap.

The waffle boards are awesome, but I've never seem them in action.

[Michael2]

I've got some aluminium sand ladders / bridges. They can take the weight of the land rover and have performed well in mud and sand. I carried them flat on the roof rack during the Simpson crossing, but never needed them.

They weight 9kg each and are a bit shorter than the space between the front and rear wheels, so they can be pulled out and repositioned.

I found some aluminium decking (looks like oil rig platform) at the scrap metal yard, and cut it to two lengths to form the bridges.

PM me with an email address and I could send you some pics.

[Reads90]

They were the Maxtrax and they didn't melt. One small part about 3 inches was scored/melted where they spun the tyres continuously on them. I've seen them in action they are awesome.
They are bulky though (although light) and not cheap.

The waffle boards are awesome, but I've never seem them in action.

I had them in the Uk and used them in competion alot. They are great and strong. Good for useing as bridging ladders. BTW it is stuff called Fidergrete and can be bought here. Is used for chemical floors so you walk on it and all dangerous water and cheimacls fall though it. But need to find it from builders and then get it cut to the size you need
I had them mounted on the back of the truck

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/09/79.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/09/80.jpg

[Reads90]

I took some Carbon Fiber sand ladders with me round Aus. Diud not use them though. Great as they are really light but strong

[Bigbjorn]

I note from the photos of military LR's on this site that the brown jobs are still carrying Marston matting ( or pierced steel planks, "PSP"). Bit too heavy to be carrying a decent length of it. Has anyone tried a roll of shadecloth or maybe barricade mesh ( the orange stuff at roadworks sites)? Wonder how either would stand up to a vehicle rolling over them. The heavier shadecloth would probably be OK if you were not spinning wheels, just using it for the sandwich effect between tyres and sand to prevent digging in. You could even use it for shade whilst camped. Be a bloody site easier to handle & carry than PSP.

Since posting that, I have had a look through old photos. One of them is of my Uncle, Willy Wall, and a four ton Dodge on the Winton-Davenport mail run which involved some long sandy crossings of the Diamantina and other streams.
There are four rolls of coir matting/carpet of hall runner width slung under the tray. I remember now how he used them. He would lay down two lengths in front of the truck on the soft bits and drive onto them, then lay out the other two in front and drive onto them and keep moving the free bits forward until across. The pieces obviously have to be longer than the vehicles wheelbase. Light, and easy to handle and store.

[dobbo]

If mounted on the side of the vehicle the PSP's would serve a duel purpose as body sliders

[tombraider]

G'day Roger,

Have a look at this. Have no experience with the product but might be helpful.
http://www.gratingco.com.au/bridging.shtml

David.

They work just fine... Used these ones before.

Tombraider

[Xtreme]

Since posting that, I have had a look through old photos. One of them is of my Uncle, Willy Wall, and a four ton Dodge on the Winton-Davenport mail run which involved some long sandy crossings of the Diamantina and other streams.
There are four rolls of coir matting/carpet of hall runner width slung under the tray. I remember now how he used them. He would lay down two lengths in front of the truck on the soft bits and drive onto them, then lay out the other two in front and drive onto them and keep moving the free bits forward until across. The pieces obviously have to be longer than the vehicles wheelbase. Light, and easy to handle and store.

Yes Brian, thanks for reminding me.

I also carried two rolls of coir matting from a church isle on a Simpson crossing with my dad back in 1983. Fortunately we didn't have to use them but unfortunately they have now rotted and been thrown out!

Roger

[Xtreme]

If mounted on the side of the vehicle the PSP's would serve a duel purpose as body sliders

An interesting thought - but maybe PAP's (pierced aluminium planks) woud be more suitable due to the weight factor. These were also used by the Australian Armed Forces in lieu of the PSP's depending (according to my ex Army engineer son) on the purpose for which they were used.

I don't think I need side protection sliders in the Simpson though.

Roger
Roger

[Xtreme]

If mounted on the side of the vehicle the PSP's would serve a duel purpose as body sliders

An interesting thought, I don't think I need side protection sliders in the Simpson though plus I don't fancy having to climb in through the window!

The Australian Armed Forces also used PAP's (pierced aluminium planks) for certain applications.

Roger

[Xtreme]

I took some Carbon Fiber sand ladders with me round Aus. Diud not use them though. Great as they are really light but strong

Sounds ideal but possibly a tad expensive for something I may not even need to use.

Are they commercially available and if so at what sort of cost?
Also what size were they?

Roger

[Blknight.aus]

Milk crates gentlemen, each milk crate yeilds 4-5 usable pads, tie them together with rope hinges and you can make em as long as you like, they stack, they double as shower mats, theyre light and if you know where to look, you can get em free.

[Bigbjorn]

Milk crates gentlemen, each milk crate yeilds 4-5 usable pads, tie them together with rope hinges and you can make em as long as you like, they stack, they double as shower mats, theyre light and if you know where to look, you can get em free.

But you are carrying a lot of air around in relation to the distance they will cover. Broken down milk crates are low mass, high volume. You have to put them somewhere. Coir mats can be rolled up into tight, low mass, cylinders, and hung wherever. In sand country, off the side posts of your bull bar or brush guard would be ideal. Remember, before the fifities no-one in the bush had 4wd's. They got the job done with skill, knowledge, & patience. No-one in my family had a 4wd on a mail run until 1992. I asked the person if he found it easier with the 4wd ( a second-hand Nissan), and he replied that he "put the hubs in once last year, but probably didn't need to".

[cewilson]

I use them for driver training purposes. But to be honest, it's not very often that I require them. I know when I did the Simpson run last year, I only carried a very basic recovery kit. With all the weight of everything that you have to take, I backed of on stuff that was "nice to have". My recovery kit did include a sand anchor though so I could winch myself out if required.

To me it is the type of item that you'd carry for competitions etc more so than really long distance travelling. Even though you are thinking of doing madigans line, I don't envisage you getting stuck too many times. And even then you'd be doing it with another vehicle??? If so then you'll be using your snatch strap 99 times out of 100.

Just a couple of thoughts anyway

Chris

[Blknight.aus]

Yeah the milk crate is a little bit space consuming, thats why you cut them up :)

But you cant beat the cost and the fact that they can be sperated and made into a a vertical stack instead of something 5 foot long and a foot wide ( guestimate). And if you uncoulple them you can lay them around corners mind you I would not want to try bridging with them

I found out the milk crates thing off of an old timer one day when I was tractionally disadvantaged on a beach who explained it to me and then lent me the ones he had in the bottom of his ummm not landrovers tray space.

as for storage of them or any other sand ladder/mat I know someone with umm a non landrover who keeps them on the floor under the rear passangers feet. I can see it doing 2 things, 1, stops foot scuffing on the floor and 2, it means the passangers HAVE to get out to help.

[CraigE]

Good idea Reads. But bugger, I had access to this stuff by the sheet up until a month ago. Wish I had thought of that then. Will have to keep an eye out for some.Did not really think it would be strong enough.
:(

I had them in the Uk and used them in competion alot. They are great and strong. Good for useing as bridging ladders. BTW it is stuff called Fidergrete and can be bought here. Is used for chemical floors so you walk on it and all dangerous water and cheimacls fall though it. But need to find it from builders and then get it cut to the size you need
I had them mounted on the back of the truck

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/09/79.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/09/80.jpg

[Xtreme]

I use them for driver training purposes. But to be honest, it's not very often that I require them. I know when I did the Simpson run last year, I only carried a very basic recovery kit. With all the weight of everything that you have to take, I backed of on stuff that was "nice to have". My recovery kit did include a sand anchor though so I could winch myself out if required.

To me it is the type of item that you'd carry for competitions etc more so than really long distance travelling. Even though you are thinking of doing madigans line, I don't envisage you getting stuck too many times. And even then you'd be doing it with another vehicle??? If so then you'll be using your snatch strap 99 times out of 100.

Just a couple of thoughts anyway

Chris

Well said and some good thoughts.

We will be travelling exclusively with Defenders - probably two 130's, three Xtremes and one Isuzu County. Although each vehicle will be self sufficient, we will be load sharing with emergency items such as spares, special tools, and specialised recovery equipment.

The reason I have started to consider the long sand ladders is that I have read reports on another forum about extreme difficulty crossing some dunes after one vehicle had failed to proceed and was being towed - more than 4hrs to cross one dune. We will be carrying two solid tow bars as we don't intend leaving anyone stranded in the unfortunate event of a major, non repairable breakdown. Madigans Line traverses some pretty remote country and if you could get a third party to tow you out of there, it would be frightfully exxy.

My idea, to keep weight down (which I realise is very important) was to incorporate some type of lightweight but strong sand ladder into a roofrack - thereby serving a double purpose. And if we don't need to use the sand ladders at least we've been able to carry a few spare tyre cases up top.

Roger

[Blknight.aus]

IF you only keep them there while you are off road and dont intend to night travel, mod the bull bar and store them between the bar and the fenders, along with the snatch bag, winch extention strap and long handled shovel I made a set of clamps from cheapy bunnings ubolts to hold everything but the sand ladders. The gear blocks the lights but dont make enough difference to the air flow to the radiator to be troublesome, Not sure if the sand ladders or desert heat will be enough to make it a problem tho.

[SharkyUAE]

I have used a variety of stuff here in the Middle East for sand

1. Rubber mats (door mat material) absolute cr@p

2. Aluminium track (TrakMat) flexible multiple plates with good grip works well but not 100%, tends to wrap around the wheel (of jeeps in particular) but not had this problem with the Degender and Disco, probably a matter of driving attitude.

3. Sand Shoes - made from some fibre + plastic material. Curved shape works well in lifting the vehicle up out of the sand, pointed end good for pushing inder the wheel

Some pics of a self recovery of my 90 in really soft stuff. Will post some clearer pics of 2 and 3

[scrambler]

I looked into local materials - I have the info at home and can post later if wanted. Industrial walkway materials are available that could be easily modified (cut down) to make good bridging/ sand ladders, either in the crate format or "I" beam designs that would have up to about a tonne capacity per 1800mm span. Lighter than metal bridging ladders and able to be used for bridging rather than just sand recovery.

Steve

[Xtreme]

Thanks for comments/advice from the Middle East - it's certainly nice to hear from first hand experience with a variety of recovery aids.

Roger

[gruntfuttock]

I have used a variety of stuff here in the Middle East for sand

1. Rubber mats (door mat material) absolute cr@p

2. Aluminum track (TrakMat) flexible multiple plates with good grip works well but not 100%, tends to wrap around the wheel (of jeeps in particular) but not had this problem with the De gender and Disco, probably a matter of driving attitude.

3. Sand Shoes - made from some fibre + plastic material. Curved shape works well in lifting the vehicle up out of the sand, pointed end good for pushing under the wheel

Some pics of a self recovery of my 90 in really soft stuff. Will post some clearer pics of 2 and 3

Interesting. Good picks BTW.

I think that you could benefit from taking a bit of advice from ever one, after all we are all different and have different needs and therefore different solutions to our problems

[barney]

roger,
in the september and october editions of 4x4 australia magazine, there is a 2 part story on a crossing of the simpson over the maddigan line.
now this may sound suss, but have a think and if you get the chance try it. i can't remember who told me about it, but i think greg s was with me at the time. they told us about using potato sacks to unbog a vehicle. by filling the sacks with the material you are stuck in and laying them along your exit route, they hold the loose material together enough for you to get traction and are big enough to float on the sand and heavy enough to not get thrown out from under your tyres as you move forward.
once emptied, they are light, pack small, can be used as rubbish bags or ground sheets or if you are a bit of a hippie, you can make some nice itchy clothes out of them.
matt

[dobbo]

roger,
in the september and october editions of 4x4 australia magazine, there is a 2 part story on a crossing of the simpson over the maddigan line.
now this may sound suss, but have a think and if you get the chance try it. i can't remember who told me about it, but i think greg s was with me at the time. they told us about using potato sacks to unbog a vehicle. by filling the sacks with the material you are stuck in and laying them along your exit route, they hold the loose material together enough for you to get traction and are big enough to float on the sand and heavy enough to not get thrown out from under your tyres as you move forward.
once emptied, they are light, pack small, can be used as rubbish bags or ground sheets or if you are a bit of a hippie, you can make some nice itchy clothes out of them.
matt

I have seen this being done years ago to a bogged horse truck and had completely forgotton about it, they used horse feed bags filled with hoss poo.

[Xtreme]

roger,
in the september and october editions of 4x4 australia magazine, there is a 2 part story on a crossing of the simpson over the maddigan line.
now this may sound suss, but have a think and if you get the chance try it. i can't remember who told me about it, but i think greg s was with me at the time. they told us about using potato sacks to unbog a vehicle. by filling the sacks with the material you are stuck in and laying them along your exit route, they hold the loose material together enough for you to get traction and are big enough to float on the sand and heavy enough to not get thrown out from under your tyres as you move forward.
once emptied, they are light, pack small, can be used as rubbish bags or ground sheets or if you are a bit of a hippie, you can make some nice itchy clothes out of them.
matt

Thanks Matt,

Was aware of this method and a number of other basic/simple methods of debogging - reading of outback travel prior to 4WD's reveals some quite innovative techniques.

The great thing about AULRO and this post in particular has been the accumulation of different methods suggested by various contributors.

So far the best all round and most universal 'device' seems to be the PAP's - bridging, sand ladders, and part of roof rack structure.

Roger

[cartm58]

one thing l have learnt since buying my first 4wd in 1984 was we always always over estimate the trouble we are likely to be in and carry weigh too much recovery tools and spares.

Must remember the Scotty engineering principal from Star Trek the machine is more capable than we think.

the best and least troublesome recovery tool is another vehicle

l wouldnt bother with sand bridges where you are going if you have 2 other vehicles on the trip

I would be giving the space and weight to spare tyres and bead breaking tools

Spinifex grass will be casuing you more trouble than the sand so remeber to take a coat hanger or too to fish out the spinifex crap from under the vehicle.

Your other option is some pieces of plywood with carpet glued to one side with holes drilled top and bottom so you can rope join them together

cartm58

[scrambler]

http://www.pacomp.com.au/products.html

The grating type of material is used quite a bit in the UK, but not so much here. One plus of this product over the usual matting is that this is structurally rated, and the I-beam material is particularly strong.

Haven't tried it in real life, though.

Steve

[tombraider]

I have seen this being done years ago to a bogged horse truck and had completely forgotton about it, they used horse feed bags filled with hoss poo.

Great! Stuck on the Maddigan line....

Got me sacks to fill.....

Wheres the F***ing HORSE????

:wasntme::wasntme::wasntme:

[cols110]

If your travelling by yourself take some, if your going with other vehicles don`t bother, save the weight and take a snatch strap instead.

I always carry a set of waffles like Ali`s, but have only used em for self recovery, never with any other vehicle as its to much hard work compared to using a second vehicle and a snatch strap.

[camel_landy]

Some pics of a self recovery of my 90 in really soft stuff. Will post some clearer pics of 2 and 3

So you're a Scot, living in the UAE and chatting on an Australian forum.... :D

FWIW - If you're out with others just make sure you have at least one set between the lot of you but use ropes for your main recovery. If on your own, then a set will be very useful.

I carry ally PSP. Strangely enough, one of the few times I've used it was when when I got stuck in a soft river bed in NZ. Thing is, the other 110 that was out with me got stuck trying to tow me out. In the end, I had to recover myself with the PSP & Hi-Lift and then go and pull the other guy out!!

M

[Blknight.aus]

been there... Its an even worse feeling when they do it after youve laid on a heap of

"Dont come in, I already chewed it up, you're just gunna get yourself bogged."

[PSi]

l wouldnt bother with sand bridges where you are going if you have 2 other vehicles on the trip

cartm58


What happens if you encounter terrain that all vehicles can't get through, but might with a few sand ladders?
Has happened to me a few times on tropical jungle trails ... long gentle climbs on slippery clay where a good fast run takes you so near to the crest, but momentum runs out and all 4 wheels spin helplessly, and no winch point in sight.
I've also driven in the Sahara on extremely soft, powdery sand called fesh-fesh, with consistency almost like talc powder.
The instruction from the local experts was, every man for himself, do NOT stop to help another vehicle that gets bogged because all you end up with is 2 bogged vehicles.
We had to pour on the coals to get to hard ground about 3km away, and some hardy souls trudged back to rescue the stuck vehicles with shovels and human power. Not fun in 40plus degree heat.
Sand ladders would have been useful but we did not have any.
Pic below is of sand a grade up from fesh-fesh, snapped while driving.
No fesh-fesh pic 'cos too busy with driving and watching temp gauge go up.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/06/143.jpg

[clean32]

i carry 3 2.5 m lengths of 4X3 that i rope together but more often used to hold up a tarp off the roof rack. i also cary a role of carpet, Nothing beats carpet on sand or mud or even shale, this also doubles up as a ground cover in front of the tent.

[lardy]

Interesting artile in Nov 2006 4wdMonthly on the Maxtrax, which are a plastic sand ladder. Just not sure if there worth $295 a pair?
Has anyone used them?

look at pa blanchard the british army use ali and steel jobs and should be a whole load cheaper if none on there i think cradocks do em and padocks had some.
When using them on soft flat sand tie some para cord to the ladder and the other end to the hoops on the rear of your landy that way you can continue onto solid ground without walking back 2k's

[willem]

Has anyone tried a roll of shadecloth or maybe barricade mesh ( the orange stuff at roadworks sites)? Wonder how either would stand up to a vehicle rolling over them. The heavier shadecloth would probably be OK if you were not spinning wheels, just using it for the sandwich effect between tyres and sand to prevent digging in. You could even use it for shade whilst camped. Be a bloody site easier to handle & carry than PSP.

Hmmnnn - interesting suggestion. I wonder if you combined the shadecloth idea with the potato sacks filled with sand and made up some shadecloth bags and filled them with sand. Afterwards they can be emptied and folded up and take up very little room. Can serve a double purpose as door mats, etc. Keeps things light and simple - but only any good if they work. Must get some to experiment.

Thinking about that - I've got a couple of old trampoline mats in the shed. I wonder ...

Willem

[carjunkieanon]

Remember, before the fifities no-one in the bush had 4wd's. They got the job done with skill, knowledge, & patience. No-one in my family had a 4wd on a mail run until 1992. I asked the person if he found it easier with the 4wd ( a second-hand Nissan), and he replied that he "put the hubs in once last year, but probably didn't need to".

Len Beadell used 4wd. But not sand ladders. He just made his own by cutting trees and stacking rocks (when available).

Absolute legend, you MUST read his books.
r

[wovenrovings]

I have never seen conditions in australia during driving on tracks (not cross country) that would require sand mats or tracks. As long as the tires have been let down and wheel spin is avoided. Just thinking that sometimes less is more. In the sahara, would take them for sure. In australia if it comes to the crunch there is usually some sticks and stuff around.

[Chucaro]

I have never seen conditions in australia during driving on tracks (not cross country) that would require sand mats or tracks. As long as the tires have been let down and wheel spin is avoided. Just thinking that sometimes less is more. In the sahara, would take them for sure. In australia if it comes to the crunch there is usually some sticks and stuff around.

:eek::eek:
Have a look the commenst from Stooge in this thread
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/tasmanian-reports/81691-pelverata-horribilus-8.html#post1010824