what to do with flag burners!

[barney]

in recent news there has been the storty of the flag burning 17 year old pinko from the cronulla riots that not oly burnt the flag, but he'd stolen it from the local RSL and spat on it as well.
they have been talking about making him carry a flag in the next ANZAC day march in sydney to try to teach him some respect for it. the problem with this (and i agree with the diggers) is that a lot of them say they will not march if they have to follow this little turd in the march. they believe he should be no where near the march.........discuss!



(i reckon it'd be ok if they got to kick his ar$e all the way to hyde park, that'd be justice)

[one_iota]

This could be a worry...let the RSL sort it out with the child in question after all the setting of the example was their idea...I don't think that casting of stones, public executions and spitting is the answer.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Yep,, What Mahn said.

While this is a public forum--

There are other places better suited to this discussion,,

By all means go there and let rip.;)

[barney]

This could be a worry...let the RSL sort it out with the child in question after all the setting of the example was their idea...I don't think that casting of stones, public executions and spitting is the answer.

the kid did the spitting, it was all caught on news footage of the riots.

i don't believe he should carry the flag, for most australians, that would be a great honour and i don't believe that honour should be given to a malcontent. as one digger interviewed on triple j this arvo said, "the kid has done the crime, (theft of the flag), he has been tried and convicted and punished by the courts, this is australia, freedom is what we fought for" and with out doubt he's right. he has been punished for the crime he committed, but i think he should be made to apologise to the country in some way for the disrespect and dessicration of the flag. i wouldn't know where to start though. while the diggers (no disrepect intended) take it personally that the flag was treated in this way because they fought for it, the flag represents everything that this country is and has been, except for the Aboriginal history, that is, and it insults us all.


rant over:confused:

[one_iota]

And Barney do you think that a child of seventeen years should be pilloried and made an example of for the rest of his life...forever judged by his indescretions...how pure are you?

[dobbo]

And Barney do you think that a child of seventeen years should be pilloried and made an example of for the rest of his life...forever judged by his indescretions...how pure are you?

It happened to the Paxten family in the early 90's for being dole bludgers, there accuser, the media. It didn't do any good then and wouldn't now.


Give him a fine and community service which should be benificial of the local RSL

[RobHay]

This could be a worry...let the RSL sort it out with the child in question after all the setting of the example was their idea...I don't think that casting of stones, public executions and spitting is the answer.
Oh! I do long for the day they bring back the Triangle and cat o' nine tails,nothing like the application of 300 lashes to generate a bit of healthy respect.

[barney]

i was a bastard when i was a kid, more mishievous than criminal though, but i did have a healthy respect for the authorities. be it my parents, other adults or the police. i've made stupid mistakes in my life that i'm ashamed of and i've done my best to learn from them. (and i don't see her anymore)
and no, i don't think he should be made to live this shame for the rest of his life, people make mistakes all their life and most of them learn from them.
this child, as you put it, is old enough to drive a car, hold a full time job, choose if he wishes to be supprorted by his parents of support himself and old enough to choose to steal a flag, burn it and participate in race riots. unfortunately, as the law stands, if he was a year older his face would have been all over the news.
as young adult, rather than being made to make ammends, i believe it would be more beneficial to him in the long term, if he made the choice to confront the people he has offended and offer his apologies. that in itself would probably be worth more than a thousand forced apologies.

[one_iota]

i was a bastard when i was a kid, more mishievous than criminal though, but i did have a healthy respect for the authorities. be it my parents, other adults or the police. i've made stupid mistakes in my life that i'm ashamed of and i've done my best to learn from them. (and i don't see her anymore)
and no, i don't think he should be made to live this shame for the rest of his life, people make mistakes all their life and most of them learn from them.
this child, as you put it, is old enough to drive a car, hold a full time job, choose if he wishes to be supprorted by his parents of support himself and old enough to choose to steal a flag, burn it and participate in race riots. unfortunately, as the law stands, if he was a year older his face would have been all over the news.
as young adult, rather than being made to make ammends, i believe it would be more beneficial to him in the long term, if he made the choice to confront the people he has offended and offer his apologies. that in itself would probably be worth more than a thousand forced apologies.

I agree

He is being used by the RSL, public opinion and the media for purposes beyond his own stupidity

[dobbo]

Oh! I do long for the day they bring back the Triangle and cat o' nine tails,nothing like the application of 300 lashes to generate a bit of healthy respect.

This was my initial reaction but what would it really solve?

Sending him into armed service could work

[feral]

Get over it.........

There's bigger fish to fry than that little tacker :bat:

[p38arover]

I'm ambivalent.

Interestingly, his identity has been suppressed in both name and image because he is a minor. Carrying the flag would expose him.

I suspect that if he did carry the flag, there may be people out there who would tarnish the march by attempting retribution.

We allow our former enemies to march - well, the Turks are allowed to march. See http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2006/s1614594.htm

Ron

[BigJon]

i've made stupid mistakes in my life that i'm ashamed of and i've done my best to learn from them. (and i don't see her anymore)


ROFLMAO :p :D I have been in that situation too!

[VladTepes]

Yes.

No.

Maybe.

I dunno.


I suspect that if he did carry the flag, there may be people out there who would tarnish the march by attempting retribution.

Ron

Some have already said they'll target him if he marches. THOSE people need to take a good long look at themselves, because that would necessarily mean targetting an ANZAC march for which there should and can be NO FORGIVENESS !

[crump]

Get over it.........

There's bigger fish to fry than that little tacker :bat:

perhaps frying his "little tacker", could be his punishment.:D

[UncleHo]

Hear, Hear.!!!

[cewilson]

A lot of people wouldn't go to the march if he carried the flag. It is an honour and something that shouldn't be bestowed to this kid basically. I know that he shouldn't be made to pay for his actions all of his life. But to a lot of us his actions where downright bloody disgraceful.

I would agree that community service that is beneficial to those that he hurt is sufficient enough. Gone are the days when you got a flogging or had to go and serve in the Army. I'm not saying that I agree with this. My personal thoughts are that quite a few young ones getting into trouble would benefit from 4 years in the Army. But that is a totally different subject to this one.

[CraigE]

My initial reaction when it first happened was to crucify him, but I now agree with what the RSL president had in mind. Education is a more powerful tool. If we can teach these kids what the flag stands for and too respect it we all win. If we just alienate them, more of it will happen. I still think they should be punished as well, but showing them compassion when they have showed none could be the answer. Then if they do similar again we should deport them to the middle east.
:twisted:

[scrambler]

My feelings about this are about the same as the "War on Terror." If we repect our flag because of the values it represents (not because we think it looks pretty) then we should uphold those values. Does disrepect for those values upset us? Good. We should insist, though, that we aren't going to just retaliate in kind and appear to represent other values entirely. If the git in question needs to learn respect, he will only do that because others show both the flag and him respect.

On the Army question, I recall one "case" from working at Vets Affairs of a young surfer conscripted to Vietnam - had to have detention before he'd allow the Army to give its regulation haricut. GF got pregnant as soon as he returned and he had to live a life of responsibility - never recovered from it! Enforced responsibility doesn't always make for stronger character. He could just as easily see it as limiting his "rights" and decide to join Al Queda.

I think more discussion of the universal values of Australia - values summed up for most in some cliched anglocentric and masculine words like "mateship" and "a fair go" - is required. If you disrespect the idea of "a fair go" then you deserve your community service. After all, that's still giving you "a fair go."

Time to let someone else on the soapbox, I guess.

Steve

[Yabbie]

Hmmmmmm,



Here's a thought I'm prepard to pay for him to go on an all expenses paid tour of the front line for 6mths , not as an enlisted man but as a camera man attatched to a unit on the front line. 6mths should be about enough for him to understand the meaning of the word respect. Then and only then will he be able to look the men and women from the RSL in question in the eye.

Not likely to happen in my life time.

Many more have earned the right to carry the flag before he does.
That said others who have made mistakes live with them and are made to suffer daily because of them, what makes him special?

[George130]

I see it as being in the march is an honor and shouldn't just be given willy nilly. It means something so teach him yes but no to him carrying the flag. I support people protesting and oppose what they don't agree with but thats not what I saw those riots were about.

[bluetongue]

Well... I asked my grand-dad, who got shot in the head on kokoda trail in wwii... and prior to that he was actually in lebanon fighting against germans...

He said that if he caught the guy p1ssing on the flag that he would p1ss on him!!!

Ok tough words from a 93 year old, but I'm sure that if the young bloke that peed on the flag was stuck on the side of the road with a flat tyre.... my grand-dad would be the first bloke to pullover and give the bloke a hand - regardless of colour, race or religon.

Cr@p... why the hell can't we all just get on?!!!

... Scott

[Ralph1Malph]

My personal thoughts are that quite a few young ones getting into trouble would benefit from 4 years in the Army. But that is a totally different subject to this one.

Although there is merit in this, the 'Army of old' is no more. The army is no longer the domain of the 'I ain't real smart but I can lift heavy things' Australian any more.:( The Army is now a thinking mans (or womans:eek: ) caper, we want to smarten it up, not dumb it down by dumping societies detritus onto it:mad: .
Then again, those really remote gestapo style youth boot camps would fun for the young unpatriotic tacker.:angel:

Regards
Ralph

[rovercare]

A little off topic, but i don't understasd this constant "respect" thing for an RSL, I fully understand the things that they once were and stood for, but have you been inside one lately, eeerrrrrr, those pokie noises make me cringe, i used to do maintenance in a few of my local RSL's and all i'd get was "sir could you please remove your cap" i'm thinking what the hey, i'm in a pokie venue watching old ducks spend there pension in this things and youyr worried about me being disrespectful by wearing a hat???? now thats respect:confused:

[p38arover]

"sir could you please remove your cap" i'm thinking what the hey, i'm in a pokie venue watching old ducks spend there pension in this things and youyr worried about me being disrespectful by wearing a hat???? now thats respect:confused:

It's not just respect. It has always been good manners to remove your hat when entering a building (some exceptions apply). Look up your rules of etiquette. I always remove mine.

See http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/Clothes%20Articles/etiquette_for_hats_and_caps.htm

I remember a few years ago telling tourists to remove their hats inside Parliament House in Canberra.

Ron

[Reads90]

Don't know about Aus but in the UK burning the nations flag is seen as treason and treason in the UK still holds the death penalty. Best thing for them.
It ****es me off when people do things like this. We had it in the uk that during the ashes last year concil told people they were not allowed to fly the St Geaorges flag as it was racest to others. WHAT we were in the UK. This sort of stuff winds me up. If you don't like where you live F*** **F.

The other thing. This lad of 17 may think he is a hard nut but i bet if you put a gun in his hand and said OH you are going to Iraq. He would sh*t himself. I don't know about you lot on here, but i watch documentrys on the 1st and second world war and think crap i could never have done that . I would be scared sh*t. I don't know how those bloke of that time did it.
I have been to the D Day beaches and Gallipoli. Both of the places just made me feel admuration for them and how brave thay were , and how much of a wimp i must be.

[p38arover]

I, too, would be scared out of my pants.

Roin

[CraigE]

As truthfully told we would all be scared s****less. The diggers that fought were as well, just ask some of them. But they did what had to be done as we would in the same situation.
Wars and conflict are pointless and usually more about power than defence or rights.
As said the RSL's are a huge joke now and are just mini casino's. I used to love going to the RSL with my Nan and Pop, but avoid them like the plague now. I can not stand that ding ding ding of the poker machines.
I just hope they keep them out of WA.

[Ace]

In Australia there is no formal penalty for burning the flag. I think, however innapropriate it was, the idea of carrying the flag was to put som restorative justice to work and make the guy see first hand what the flag means to australian people, i think the response from the public over the suggestion got the message accross. matt

[p38arover]

I just hope they keep them out of WA.
what? RSLs?

Ron

[crump]

I, too, would be scared out of my pants.

Roin

and you also use an alias when your naked! (sorry couldnt help it.):p :D