Interesting Day

[JDNSW]

Not sure this is the right forum, as there is quite a bit of technical material in it - but here goes.

Went to a clearing sale about 100km away today. Weather was cool and sunny with a brisk wind and a lot of raised dust. I bought about half a tonne of steel fence posts for 2.20 each, a spare PTO for my tractor for $5, a four jaw lathe chuck for $40, a polishing spindle for $5, and a number of lathe collets for $20.
Some interesting items I did not bid on included a 20ft insulated container with windows and lights - $200, and a four foot capstan lathe in apparently good condition that also went for $200.

On the way home I stopped to drop off my nephew - and as soon as I got out I could smell diesel - and it was (with a good coating of dust) all over the front of the trailer. Opening the bonnet showed that there was also diesel all over the under bonnet area. Starting the engine immediately showed where it was coming from - on this engine the fuel return line from the injection pump is coupled to the chassis return pipe by about two inches of rubber hose. This had split along the top of the hose between the clips. Fortunately my Nephew was able to find some suitable hose, and it took about ten minutes to remove the split hose and replace it. This is the third time I have had to replace this hose, but in the past it has had the decency to just weep a little - not spray it everywhere. This last one only lasted about two years - I'll have to see if I can find something more durable.

Tomorrow I will have to try and clean up! (Apart from unloading the trailer)
John

[Bigbjorn]

Capstans and turrets really are industrial relics. They usually sell for scrap value, or the value of any tooling in the lot. I have seen a number of auctions where no bid was forthcoming for these.

[DeeJay]

John,
Be gratefull it was diesel and not petrol:eek:
But, then again, it costs more:(

[p38arover]

Hmm, I'd have like the lathe to replace my existing lathe.

Glad the fuel leak wasn't in my P38A - it would have burned quite well!

Ron

[Blknight.aus]

Gentlemen, you have my attention...

A lathe I know about a drill mill I know about

a capstan and a turret?

so far as I know the first is a bloody hard to find winch for a series that drives off the crank pully and the second is the thing on top of a tank that when pointed in your general direction means you are about to have a very bad day..

I realise from the general gist of the convo that thats not what you are talking about... my question...

What the hell are you talking about?

[JDNSW]

Gentlemen, you have my attention...

........

What the hell are you talking about?

Capstan lathe; a lathe with a rotating tool holder
Turret lathe; = capstan lathe (courtesy SOED)

They are types of lathe with a method of bringing a variety of different tools into exact position to carry out tasks that have been previously set up (by rotation, hence the "capstan" or "turret". In the past extensively used for mass production - this is now usually done by NC machines, so they are virtually obsolete for mass production and less suited to the home or workshop user than lathes specifically designed for this. Since they are usually big, heavy, need three phase power, and often well worn, the demand for them is pretty low.
At the same sale a well worn "Hercus" 20" lathe attracted spirited competition and went for $800 - approaching the price new of similar Chinese lathes.
John

[Blknight.aus]

I assume you mean one of those funky lathes where the actual job stands still and the tool holder works around the piece for doing things where you need to machine a protrusion on something else that you just cant physically rotate...

Imagine say the output shaft on a rover transfer case that had to have a a seal faced resleved but for whatever reason you couldnt dismantle the case, just remove it from the gearbox.

and the capstan one would be the one where the tool rotates traditional lathe style and turret where it goes round merry go round style....

Them Ive seen, Ive used my drill mill as a poor mans turret lathe once

[JDNSW]

I assume you mean one of those funky lathes where the actual job stands still and the tool holder works around the piece for doing things where you need to machine a protrusion on something else that you just cant physically rotate...

Imagine say the output shaft on a rover transfer case that had to have a a seal faced resleved but for whatever reason you couldnt dismantle the case, just remove it from the gearbox.

and the capstan one would be the one where the tool rotates traditional lathe style and turret where it goes round merry go round style....

Them Ive seen, Ive used my drill mill as a poor mans turret lathe once

No. The tool is fixed while in use but there are several tools on a turret or capstan so that they can be rotated into position to carry out several turning jobs in succession on the same bit of metal. Useful for mass production, not very useful for one off jobs.

See for example http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Ward/ward18.htm. This is not the actual one at the sale, but is similar.

[Bigbjorn]

No. The tool is fixed while in use but there are several tools on a turret or capstan so that they can be rotated into position to carry out several turning jobs in succession on the same bit of metal. Useful for mass production, not very useful for one off jobs.

See for example http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Ward/ward18.htm. This is not the actual one at the sale, but is similar.

Being a fitter & turner, and aware of the ready availability & low prices of machine tools and metal working equipment nowadays, one forgets there are people out there who don't know these things. I will try to flesh out JD's comments.

Capstan & turret lathes were developed in the latter half of the nineteenth century, initially in the USA. Historians differ, but generally opine that the first examples were from Brown & Sharp, or Pratt & Whitney.

Usage is in mass production or repetition work, rarely jobbing work.

Like engine lathes, they have a bed, headstock & spindle to which work holders attach, usually a cross slide and tool post(s), but not a tail stock, which is replaced by a hexagonal turret tool holder which can index to bring tools into play.

A capstan lathe is normally used for high volume production of small pieces, most commonly from bar stock fed from the outer end of the headstock by a bar feeder. A capstan's turret is mounted on a slide along which the turret can be moved, and a carriage which can also move on the slideways of the lathe bed, parallel to the bed's axis.

A cross slide with one or more toolposts mounts between the headstock & turret and functions in the way of tools on an engine lathe.

A turret lathe is used for heavier or larger diameter work, and is more suitable for long turning & boring operations. A turret is generally of much heavier and stronger construction than a capstan. A turret lathe's hexagonal turret is mounted to the carriage direct. This is stronger and more rigid than the capstan's arrangement thus enabling the heavier class of work. The turret lathe also has the cross slide and toolposts as per the capstan.

A huge range of tools and tooling were developed, some of which need to be seen in operation to be understood.

Their advantages in production work was in the machines' ability to quickly and accurately turn out identical workpieces & be operated by unskilled labour.

You may recall seing "Positions Vacant" ads for toolsetters. Toolsetters ground new tools, resharpened, mounted, changed tools in capstans & turrets and often maintained the machines. They were usually, but not always, tradesman machinists, often the only ones in the factory.

During WW2 Rolls-Royce built a new aero-engine factory in Glasgow and had instant industrial problems. The Scottish work practices were that ALL machine tools had to be operated by "time-served" men, even machines that had no trade skill requirement. This was negotiated down to an agreement that unskilled workers, including women and juniors could be machine operators until the cessation of hostilities, when the existing system would return.

[p38arover]

During WW2 Rolls-Royce built a new aero-engine factory in Glasgow and had instant industrial problems. The Scottish work practices were that ALL machine tools had to be operated by "time-served" men, even machines that had no trade skill requirement.

Why am I not surprised. :mad:

How often do you see union reps that are Scots - most often seen during industrial disputes.

Ron

[Bigbjorn]

Why am I not surprised. :mad:

How often do you see union reps that are Scots - most often seen during industrial disputes.

Ron

If you studied their industrial history and the way they were treated, then all is made clear. The greater wonder is that there was not bloody rebellion in the industrial areas of Great Britain.

[p38arover]

If you studied their industrial history and the way they were treated, then all is made clear. The greater wonder is that there was not bloody rebellion in the industrial areas of Great Britain.

But they still carry the grudge and they've brought it here - much like some ethnic groups.

Ron

[Frenchie]

Jeez those Isuzu diesels, so unreliable! ;)

[JDNSW]

Jeez those Isuzu diesels, so unreliable! ;)

Engine kept going - didn't miss a beat. Can't even blame LRA or Isuzu - that bit of hose came from Repco I think. The original lasted a lot longer.

John

[Bigbjorn]

But they still carry the grudge and they've brought it here - much like some ethnic groups.

Ron

Never forgive, never forget, never surrender. Or in Belfast terms, "Our Country Too." Is the Fenian Eel still out there somewhere.

[Bigbjorn]

Engine kept going - didn't miss a beat. Can't even blame LRA or Isuzu - that bit of hose came from Repco I think. The original lasted a lot longer.

John

JD, I am using petroleum grade reinforced air hose 200 psi rated, on mine, with spiwrapping where vulnerable.