Farewell* Gembrook (actually not so well)

[Michael2]

A small group of us went for a drive up to Bunyip State Forest at Gembrook today. 2 Defenders, a D2 and an older Land Cruiser. Guess who got bogged - my only clue is it wasn't a European car;).

Anyway, to our dismay, the whole forest has been closed to 4WD and motorbike traffic. The main tracks are walking tracks and the tough tracks are management vehicle only tracks. There are gates and concrete bollards everywhere.

Traffic is being directed to tracks north of the park, where we managed to have a brief play.

This was an area I had always thought worked so well, 4WDrivers and bikers supported the local town on weekends, tracks were kept open and used for fire access, pedestrian traffic was always minimal (never seen one actually) due to the length and gradient of the tracks and the lack of adequate drinking water creeks. So I can't understand the "dog in a manger"* mentality that leads to such a lock out.

* The Dog in a Manger is one of Aesops** fables, about a dog on a farm who couldn't eat hay, so he lay in the manger so the other animals wouldn't be able to eat either.

**Aesop - a famous ancient greek story teller circa 650 BCE.

[rangieman]

Yep they have been slowly closing the tracks over that last few years :twisted:

im spose all those cowboys on horse,s will be happy now :eek:

and it was close to me for a play i think the greens played a big part in closing the tracks:angel:

[LandyAndy]

Is Gembrook roughly where the steam train runs???,went over there for a holiday a few years back,awsome countryside.
Andrew

[Michael2]

im spose all those cowboys on horse,s will be happy now :eek:

Horsey people should know what it's like to be locked out of the High Country - you'd think they'd learn to share.

Horse riding is more dangerous than motor bike riding (though I'd rather be on a horse). Do they really think it's good to have a fall, no mobile phone reception and no vehicular traffic for days?

Now that you mention it, I have seen horsey people there once - several years ago. We slowed right down so as not to create dust or spook the horses, we gave them a wide berth, we gave them a friendly wave - and we got dirty looks in return. But that's okay, I always give people the benefit of the doubt and assume a degree of mental illness on their behalf.

[rangieman]

that would be puffing billy yes the train runs from belgrave to gembrook:D

[Michael2]

Is Gembrook roughly where the steam train runs???,went over there for a holiday a few years back,awsome countryside.
Andrew

Yep, that's the Gembrook.

[Bytemrk]

Just another reason for us Victorians to think very carefully who we vote for.... particularly in the upper house..:soapbox:

Mark

[LandyAndy]

Yep did Puffin Billy with the boy,the missus picked us up at the other end,great countryside,pitty rails dont do extreme stuff.
BUT WE HAVE BETTER STUFF OVER HERE.
Duck for cover LANDYANDY those Vics are going to nail you.
Andrew

[rangieman]

you have just been nailed big time:wasntme:

[Michael2]

BUT WE HAVE BETTER STUFF OVER HERE.Andrew


Where!?


And the Gascoyne, Pilbarra and Kimberley don't count, as they're about as far from you as they are from us.

[hiline]

Yep did Puffin Billy with the boy,the missus picked us up at the other end,great countryside,pitty rails dont do extreme stuff.
BUT WE HAVE BETTER STUFF OVER HERE.
Duck for cover LANDYANDY those Vics are going to nail you.
Andrew

yep:eek2: :censored: :censored:

[amtravic1]

Tis happenened a few months ago. Despite all the surveys, studies and meetings and even recomendations from their own departments, DSE and Parks Vic. the current LABOR government listened only to a few residents (most likely radical greens). My information is that there was only a handfull of people who wanted the area closed.

The Vic electon is coming. Everyone here will know what a threat the greens and even labor is to our recreation. Make sure all your freinds know as well. For those in the southern metro areas look up the REG and the 4wd association website and vote accordingly. For everyone else, please follow the how to vote cards being produced by the REG (Recreational Environment Group)

Ian

[DirtyDawg]

Michael you have to stop being Australian and enjoying an outside way of life;)
I had a similar problem over here with govt felled trees across my local, favorite freshwater fishing spot its not like we don't keep to established tracks...but a 12000lb winch and a couple of well placed snatch blocks and I'm back fishing.. F.T.Govt... :mad:

[boggo]

Just remember,a vote for labour is a vote for the greens,and vice versa.And we all know what that bloody national parks mob is like,;) ,yes for me,no for you

[Bytemrk]

Not wanting to get too political here...

But most Vic 4x4 drivers should have a read about what 4wd vic are doing:

http://www.fwdvictoria.org.au/news.htm

The greens are winning because they are good at publicity and lobbying.... the 4wd movement has an image issue.... and needs some more political clout. We all know there are thousands of us.... but because we do not make the news with stupid stunts and don'y lobby our cause well enough - the major parties pander to the radical greens more than us.

The Wombat forest work has proven if we get involved we can avoid a total lockout - 4WD Vic is working closely with Parks.... they need our help to keep the momentum happening..

Think and vote in an informed manner.... that's the only way we will keep what little we have.:soapbox::soapbox:


Mark

[Bytemrk]

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Was that me?...... I must be getting a little passionate about my 4x4..... normally I don't give a flying rats about any of our pollies:p

Mark

[B92 8NW]

Think and vote in an informed manner.... that's the only way we will keep what little we have.


Mark

Beautiful words... Which electorate do you want to be a Local Member in?:D

[Michael2]

Not that I'm a big spender, but when we've gone to Gembrook we've bought fuel, coffee, occasional take away - multiply that by several hundered every weekend and the towns people have a lot to thank the greenies for. Not only will the bush be quiet, so will business. Now they can shut their shops and go bushwalking.

[Bytemrk]

Beautiful words... Which electorate do you want to be a Local Member in?:D

haha.. I'll settle for a small electorate about 50"x150" in Mitcham..... there I am KING:p






unless SWOMBO can read this:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Mark

[Panda]

I commiserate with you guys in Vic, we've had the same here. Used to be able to go all over the place, but every 6 months or so, they're closing more and more tracks. It's a crying shame, but unfortunately it'll only get worse.

What also amazes me is the extent they go to block the tracks off - enormous trenches, boulders, trees across the tracks every 10 metres or so. They end up making such a mess and it ends up looking heaps worse than if they'd just left the damn tracks open!

[Michael2]

I wonder how you'd go taking an old map and a chainsaw and driving / opening all the old tracks. When challenged, you take it to the High Court and argue the Right of Way rule. More than 20 years of continued public access makes it a public right of way.

There was a guy locally who used some vacant council land adjacent to his house as a driveway to the backyard. He went to court and argued he'd used the land for the last 8 years and the previous owner had used it for the previous 14 years, so he had demonstarted continued use and he claimed the land as part of his title. The council went and checked all their assets after they lost that case.

[dungarover]

Bloody sad state of affairs in Vic from what I hear.

QLD they have shut down the tracks that were good (Spicers Gap) and left us with soft cock X-Trail type stuff. Example of one is Mt Mee SF which used to have some ripper tracks in there but the pot-smoking greens and idiot beaurecrats have decided to close those as well :mad: :mad: .

Still, we have private 4WD parks and this makes up for the lack of free 'hardcore' 4WD terrain I suppose. Good luck and keep fighting.

Trav

[Redback]

It's funny how this thread has generated so much and yet the post on Appin has not.

Here's a chance to save a great 4wd spot for the future and yet has only one reply and that reply was for a winge about a previous post on the same topic.

Outerlimits are trying hard to keep access to Appin by having a cleanup day to try and show that we care and will look after these places if allowd to keep access.

So those from the greater Sydney area, DON'T WINGE IF IT IS LOST:twisted: :twisted:

Baz.

[Bytemrk]

It's funny how this thread has generated so much and yet the post on Appin has not.

Here's a chance to save a great 4wd spot for the future and yet has only one reply and that reply was for a winge about a previous post on the same topic.

Outerlimits are trying hard to keep access to Appin by having a cleanup day to try and show that we care and will look after these places if allowd to keep access.

So those from the greater Sydney area, DON'T WINGE IF IT IS LOST:twisted: :twisted:

Baz.
so true Baz.... if we all sit and whinge and blame others it will be gone...

Action like a cleanup day help.....

Even better if you can get public recognition for that work....

Apathy will mean all the tracks get closed in every state eventually....

Mark

[Redback]

so true Baz.... if we all sit and whinge and blame others it will be gone...

Action like a cleanup day help.....

Even better if you can get public recognition for that work....

Apathy will mean all the tracks get closed in every state eventually....

Mark

The good thing that these guys have done is get people involved in the closeure onside (ie) residents in the area, they even got the mines to at least listen to what they had to say.

If my Disco is not being fixed then i'm going, or i have a lift.

[blitz]

I pretty much agree with the sentiment here. It is worth checking out that public access avenue. My father did that back in the early 70's in Coffin Bay S.A. when the nazis ranger desided that he would close the road to everyone (excluding himself of course) Dad and his cronies won and as far as I am aware that law is still active.

I am also a horse owner and rider, and I agree it is a bloody site more dangerous than 4X4 or motor bikes (actually I am all three) I dont ride where I can't get a 4X4 in case one of us comes off and we have to get the disco to get us out.

Up here in the NT many of the old places we were able to go have been closed off to the public (much of it national parks) so even up here we are feeling the pinch of having our freedom to go were we want slowly eroded away form us.

Blitz

[Michael2]

I pretty much agree with the sentiment here. It is worth checking out that public access avenue. My father did that back in the early 70's in Coffin Bay S.A. when the nazis ranger desided that he would close the road to everyone (excluding himself of course) Dad and his cronies won and as far as I am aware that law is still active.Blitz

So, do we have a constitutional lawyer in our midst?

[amtravic1]

haha.. I'll settle for a small electorate about 50"x150" in Mitcham..... there I am KING:p






unless SWOMBO can read this:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:


Mark


Mark,
you live on a very small block, 50 INCHES x 150 INCHES!

Ian

[Ace]

Hi Michael, there is a sticky on 4wd monthly's forum at the moment about track closures, i think one of the blokes from the mag is trying to sort something out for the mag, he might find that info useful. Matt

[Michael2]

Hi Michael, there is a sticky on 4wd monthly's forum at the moment about track closures, i think one of the blokes from the mag is trying to sort something out for the mag, he might find that info useful. Matt

Thanks Matt, I not a member of that forum, and I don't think I can join it and contribute fairly to it - being a one eyed Land Rover man, I'm best contained within the bounds of aulro :D.

Seriously though, I don't think it would be right to join a forum and immediately launch off into a political agenda. If you're a member, maybe you can direct their attention to this discussion, or just run with these ideas on that forum. I think there is a legal right of way that needs to be tested in court, but I don't have the legal knowledge to argue it beyond that. I think a legal solution is better than a political one, that way you don't have to deal with as many liars.

[DeeJay]

The track closures are out of control and, as previously stated will continue. It started a long, long time ago.
I guess I have to consider myself lucky to have had a totally free reign for the first 10 years, my first Landie purchased in 1969 and trips to Dargo and the high plains started that year. The mountain cattlemen never even locked thier huts back then and there was food, firewood, even blankets that they didn't mind sharing, and you always respected that and left the huts in better condition than you found them. I remember finding the very first gate across a track (not counting the water catchment area ones). A mate I was with at the time was a Nat parks ranger- off duty, and I said, well thats that then, and he said hang on, I've got a master key here. He then scrummaged around the back of his series 3 and produced the biggest mother of a pair of boltcutters I've ever seen. Nowadays they have incredibly complex lockable gates, hidden camera's, helecopters on call and it has become a "not worth it" exercise.
I tell ya, if the doc says I've got an incurable disease and have 3 months to live I'll spend a month with a gas axe and James Bond number plates or maybe clone a " management" vehicle and start on them..:mad: :mad:
Maybe I should just hike around them:angel:
You have got to start to wonder what the after market people will sell once we, the 4wd er, find that all these lift kits, big tyres, winches, diff locks bullbars etc are nothing but expensive bling and the only roads you can travel are 2wd anyway.
I can see some of you guys reading this will think I am being a bit extreme, but I truly believe we will eventually have bugger all to go 4wding in Vic- at least a bit challenging, as the remaining "hard" tracks will get too popular for them to cope, and I agree some of Gembrook resembled the Somme, but what resources have been put to work around there? I have NEVER seen any bulldozer work to fix the existing tracks,- plenty to make them closer to 2wd though, but none to fill in/repair track damage.
In my opinion the Dept of constant name change has given us the rope to hang ourselves.
R.I.P. 4Wding in Victoria.:nazilock: :nazilock: :nazilock: :nazilock:

[ciapek]

Michael2 I totally understand your comments and I too would like to express my dissapointment in the closures.
Me and my friends have been happily taking trips into Gembrook for the last few years.
Gembrook has some fine tracks and it's only 45min from Melbourne......and that's why it gets so much 4WD traffic.....
But I hate to say it, it was on the books to happend.
Every trip we took , we saw what was happening to the tracks.
If I had a dollar for every GQ I saw running 35" muddies and a RED P Plate ripping the ground to shreads............well do I need to say any more....

It's a shame responsible drivers must pay the price for the Yobbo mentality.........:mad:

[Bytemrk]

Mark,
you live on a very small block, 50 INCHES x 150 INCHES!

Ian


haha.... ummm oops!...:bangin::bangin:

Mark

[LandyAndy]

Hey VIC members.
I was just exercising a tad of interstate rivalry,loved that trip on puffin billy,nice bit of the world.
I tell you if we get locked out of Harvey,especially after the carnage the loggers have done recently us WA AULROians will be as wild if not more than you guys.
Andrew

[Slugbait]

Hmm Interesting what you find when you're looking for info on a Plus 35

I think we should inject some facts into the debate about Gembrook Forest.
Over the last couple of years there has been an increase in Trail Bike usage of the park. Residents at the Southern end of the park have listed a number of complaints about noise and damage done by the bikes.
Residents in general had no issue with 4WD's
The management plan was up for review this year and Residents were early in there involvement in the public discussion of the plan
Many user groups became aware of the plan including 4WDVic and were involved in the planning process.
3 options were agreed on Plan A,B, and C. A and B were recomended by the working group which included Parks Victoria. These were the most favorable to 4WD's and Trail Bikes.
Residents lobied Tammy Lobarto the Labour Member for Gembrook who holds a very marginal seat and the govenment decided that they would take option C.4WDVic are about to make a press release with the Labour Party about the Labour Parties 4WD Policy I suggest you look out for it and consider if actions match the release.

I am a Land Rover Owner, a 4WD Club Member and a Gembrook Resident close to the complaining residents in question. I understand there concern much of the problems were created by Trail Bikes warming up along the Tonimbuk Road. I would also agree that the 4WD community are not served well by 4WDs with big tyres driving around gates and off the tracks.

As I understand it Auspower are intending to fence the area under the powerlines. Stating that the damage created is undermining the foundations of the towers.

Some of the tracks you know and love in the southern end of the park will be available to members of 4WD clubs affiliated with 4WDVic under a permit scheme.

I would be careful making economic argument about Gembrook Township. The businesses there make more money from Puffing Billy, the Markets and horse riding than 4wd's and Trailbikes.

Don't misunderstand my statements as pro closure I have lost my favorate tracks to test my Land Rover Restorations but understand that in this case the closures had more to do with noise, poor behavour by some recreational vehicles rather than a targeted campain by Green Groups.

If you want to understand the management plan have a look at this link http://www.parkweb.vic.gov.au/resources07/07_1442.pdf its a 2 mb file it list all the groups involved in the framework. Get informed then get active.

Cheers

[Michael2]

I haven't read the entire document yet Steve, but looking at it, it basically says don't bother coming here if you want to take your family out 4WDing for the day. Only especially sanctioned club events may be allowed with 3 months notice. I wonder how long before they then charge for such a priveledge?

[rangieman]

I haven't read the entire document yet Steve, but looking at it, it basically says don't bother coming here if you want to take your family out 4WDing for the day. Only especially sanctioned club events may be allowed with 3 months notice. I wonder how long before they then charge for such a priveledge?







Thats the nail on the head:angel:

[amtravic1]

Steve, as a member of a club that was heavilly involved the the consultation process I can tell you that the government ignored its own scientific findings including noise tests in order to appease a small minority. I agree that noise from trail bikes is annoying but real trail bike riders use their bikes much like a 4wd and leave from the cars in the morning and return only after completing the planned trip. The government is unwilling to control the illegal riders who cause most of the problems. I also fail to see why a few residents have so much say about noise when they probably only have to put up with it for a few hours on weekends. Those of us who have to live in the cities have almost constant noise we have to deal with. if we all moved to the country there would be nowhere left to get away from the cities.
A permit system is being introduced for use by 4wd clubs! This is just the start and if the current government gets its way the only access you will have is by permit. they have been talking about this for ages. You get the permit to go for a drive only where the permits says you can go and then 4 drops of rail fall and they will cancell it. They are polititions and will lie and cheat on the public to get elected and keep the greens preferences.

thats enough but I have been involved in submissions, meetings, letter writing for 30 years. I have been lucky to travel through areas that are now closed for no reason other than to keep the greens and VNPA happy. Every time Labor is elected we loose the right to some use OUR land.

Ian

[D110V8D]

On the permit thing, I think this may be the only way ahead in the future if areas are going to stay open at all.

From a bushwalking point of view the permit system works well and most of the money taken from selling permits go's into maintaining the often very fragile area.

Having said that it is generally encouraged to walk straight through a boggy section of track rather than skirting around the side of it only to increase it's size over time. Some of those bogs are very deep.:o

Anyway permits may not be so bad. If they're easy to get (no limit on amount issued at any one time) and really are only sold as a way of raising money to maintain areas it shouldn't be a pain in the rear to get one.

Also I like the idea of a track grading system, similar to ski trails. Green, blue and black diamonds. This has been proposed by a number of people and I reckon it's a great idea. That combined with a permit system would be the way to go.

Something has to be done. I love driving the harder tracks. I dont want to see them shut down altogether. Parks apparently dont have the money to maintain them at the moment so why not pay your way so to speak?

Maybe we will be driving in 4wd parks in the future like they do in the UK.

If someone has the cash to do it, DO IT NOW. You'll make an absolute killing.

Just my opinion.

[Michael2]

As for permits Mick, I generally leave tracks in a better condition than I found them. I move fallen trees, or fill deep ruts etc. Track maintenance is as much a part of resource management (fire prevention, pest control....) as it is about recreational access.

I drive on several billion dollars worth of roads every day - I contribute by paying Tax, I don't see why I should be hamstrung by beaurocracy if I choose to drive on public land.

[Slugbait]

Steve, as a member of a club that was heavilly involved the the consultation process I can tell you that the government ignored its own scientific findings including noise tests in order to appease a small minority. I agree that noise from trail bikes is annoying but real trail bike riders use their bikes much like a 4wd and leave from the cars in the morning and return only after completing the planned trip. The government is unwilling to control the illegal riders who cause most of the problems. I also fail to see why a few residents have so much say about noise when they probably only have to put up with it for a few hours on weekends. Those of us who have to live in the cities have almost constant noise we have to deal with. if we all moved to the country there would be nowhere left to get away from the cities.
A permit system is being introduced for use by 4wd clubs! This is just the start and if the current government gets its way the only access you will have is by permit. they have been talking about this for ages. You get the permit to go for a drive only where the permits says you can go and then 4 drops of rail fall and they will cancell it. They are polititions and will lie and cheat on the public to get elected and keep the greens preferences.

thats enough but I have been involved in submissions, meetings, letter writing for 30 years. I have been lucky to travel through areas that are now closed for no reason other than to keep the greens and VNPA happy. Every time Labor is elected we loose the right to some use OUR land.

Ian

Yes Ian

I think that was my point. The advice given to the government was not taken and they chose the least favourable option for us.

I can also say that the noise from the bike is not for a couple of hours on weekends it is normaly constant from 8am until dusk Saturday and Sunday and also over week days. Constant trafic noise is one thing but bikes especally 2 stroke constantly giving it a squirt is just like running you finger nails down a blackboard. Now I'm saying this from a resident who is very tolerent of bikes and does not want to see the tracks closed.

I say again this is a marginal seat and the risk of loosing a few votes is higher than upsetting groups that vote largly in another electorate.

I would also argue that it doesn't matter which party we talk about the Liberal Federal government did the same thing with a wind farm in Gipsland. Another marginal seat.

Again I'm not making a point about any political party but the only parties to have stated 4wd policies are RUG, and the Labour Party (hence the press release by the ALP and 4WDVictora).

Parks now have a stated policy that recognises recreational vehicle usage has equal importance in parks and the managers have to support that policy.

As far as policing the Gembrook State Park. I can state that police are there almost every weekend and recently on trail bikes. Parks will also book anyone they find doing the wrong thing and of course you can report it yourselves.

On parks and track maintenance they have been working with a shrinking budget for the last 10 years at least. I think you'll find that taxes for roads don't find there way into National or State Parks. There is 300Km's of track in Gembrook State Park mostly logging trails with no other use. The Federal Government admitted 2 days ago that they had not spent enough in Parks Australia wide in fact there funding has dropped over the last 12 years, year on year. We are very lucky in Vic that we don't have to pay to enter a park. If you manage a park you have to make decisions with that money and it goes to where the most visitors go and 4WD tracks are not that.

So instead of complaining about whats not being done try and come up with ways of solving the problems and remember as much as I like the sound of my 101 at 3500 rpm climbing a hill all 8 cylinders working hard, not everyone does.

[duff]

I agree that the sound of two strokes annoy me, 35" muddies spraying the country side all over every where but the track annoy me, people spinning the wheels for no reason other than fun annoys me.

BUT it seem like as with so much in the last ten or so years, people forget that the pollies are only paid by us to manage what WE OWN,,, not tell us to do this or that, or worse not do this or that:twisted: .,, "signs, signs, everywhere is signs, do this ! don't do that !, cant you read the si_ii__iigns".:D

We already have laws that govern loud motorbikes and already have laws that govern oversize tyres, and you could even use the driving with undue care law to stop the digging up bit. BUT NO!! as usual!!! rather than put a cop out there every month or so and hammer the ********s that ruin for everyone:eek: they just shut OUR land off to us:nazilock: :nazilock:



Well I feel better now

[D110V8D]

There seems to be a bit of an issue with 35' tyres here.

Why? Is it acceptable to have smaller tyres spinning and spraying mud everywhere?

My experience has been that with larger diameter tyres with a decent mud tread pattern it is much easier to traverse difficult sections of track. More clearance and grip avoids excessive wheel spin. Even more so with front and rear diff locks. Most obstacles can be driven with little or no damage to the track or vehicle.

I've seen too many vehicles with the wrong tyres for the job spinning and revving out trying to clear difficult sections. Making a bloody mess.

I'm not trying to start an argument guys, belive me. I just want to know where this idea of large tyres, must be a bloody hoon. What gives??

[duff]

Hey. there is nothing wrong with the tyres :)

And if you use yours properly:eek: , then just ignore the flak ;)

35" muddies are a bit like racing slicks, if you know what your doing then they are great, but if you just running them cause they look "tough mate". Your probably doing no one any favours.:cool:

IE.. when you do eventually spin up huge tyres with hundreds of little front end loaders stuck on them, u tend to leave holes that us mere mortals with 245/70 x 16 cant get thru.:o

But mostly the 35" muddies line is just a figurative thing.:p