Swivel Housing

[Dayne]

I'm getting to the stage of getting my Series 3 on the road. The swivel housing are worn but I don't have enough money to replace them.

I have been told that you can pack up the housing with a oil/ grease mix. And you can use this for a while.

has anybody else herd of this quick fix, if so how do you do it?

Thanks for your help. All the advice has been great...

[Phoenix]

I use the penrite semi fluid grease in mine, seems to work well. I'd prefer oil, but it doesn't hold it long at the moment due to a stuffed seal.

[Dayne]

What level do you fill it to? Does it do any damage?

[Phoenix]

Put as much as I can in pretty much, but it's messy much to get in, best put in with a sause bottle or such and when hot. But the swivels normally hold 1/2 a litre of oil.

[Dayne]

Thanks for that sounds like a good idea.

[isuzurover]

What do you mean worn? The balls or the seals? Are the balls rusty?

I have never seen swivel balls which need replacement through wear, only seals, but they are only $15 per side.

IMO oil is the only way to go, as you need the splash lubrication to keep the top swivel pin lubricated.

[timberwolf_302]

Me (and many others I have heard) have been able to pack the swivel housings with just grease in Rangies (and SI Discoverys too i guess) all the time with no problems. Normal bearing grease becomes quite fluid when its warm so you shouldn't have any problems with yours.

Having said that, SIIIs have Uni-Joints inside their swivel housings...and Rangies have CV joints. Maybe Uni joints need something more fluid than grease?

[isuzurover]

Me (and many others I have heard) have been able to pack the swivel housings with just grease in Rangies (and SI Discoverys too i guess) all the time with no problems. Normal bearing grease becomes quite fluid when its warm so you shouldn't have any problems with yours.

Having said that, SIIIs have Uni-Joints inside their swivel housings...and Rangies have CV joints. Maybe Uni joints need something more fluid than grease?

Axles don't (or shouldn't) get hot enough for the grease to become completely liquid.

The biggest problem is that Series trucks have an upper swivel pin with a bush, and only a tiny hole for the oil to be splashed up into them. Discos and rangies, etc mostly have a bearing at the top.

However - toyotas and the like which run grease from stock, tend to have much shorter CV-life and CV-bush life than rovers.

[JDNSW]

Me (and many others I have heard) have been able to pack the swivel housings with just grease in Rangies (and SI Discoverys too i guess) all the time with no problems. Normal bearing grease becomes quite fluid when its warm so you shouldn't have any problems with yours.

Having said that, SIIIs have Uni-Joints inside their swivel housings...and Rangies have CV joints. Maybe Uni joints need something more fluid than grease?

Grease is not a good idea with swivels with fibre top bushes (most Landrovers), but semifluid grease is sort of acceptable. You will get away with grease a lot more often with Rangerovers and Discoveries and Defenders that have full time four wheel drive than you will with the typical Series which is part time four wheel drive and typically has free wheeling hubs. In this situation the grease does not get at all hot and the only way any lubricant gets into the top bearing is by axle bounce, which is not enough to throw even semifluid grease into the upper swivel bearing.

[Dayne]

What do you mean worn? The balls or the seals? Are the balls rusty?

I have never seen swivel balls which need replacement through wear, only seals, but they are only $15 per side.

IMO oil is the only way to go, as you need the splash lubrication to keep the top swivel pin lubricated.

The swivel balls are pitted, (Not rusty) I been told that the if you put new seals with the swivel balls that way it will damage the new seals. So not holding in the oil.

How would you fix this problem?

[JDNSW]

The swivel balls are pitted, (Not rusty) I been told that the if you put new seals with the swivel balls that way it will damage the new seals. So not holding in the oil.

How would you fix this problem?

The "proper" way of fixing it is to replace the balls. This is expensive, although you may be able to find some reasonably priced second hand ones that are at least better than yours. I have heard of, but never seen used, the idea of using epoxy filler to fill the pits. This would have to be done after they were thoroughly degreased, and then carefully smoothed after filling. This would last a while, but I have no idea how long, probably depend on conditions.

The alternative is probably to use the semifluid grease as Phoenix has suggested - and if you have free wheel hubs, leave them locked.

[Dayne]

I'm going to be using the landy short drives to the tip etc. So I will save up for the balls. When I'm done using her for yard work she is back off the road then to the paint shop to have everthing finshed, so I'll do it then..

Wife doesn't know it yet....

[JDNSW]

I'm going to be using the landy short drives to the tip etc. So I will save up for the balls. When I'm done using her for yard work she is back off the road then to the paint shop to have everything finished, so I'll do it then..

Wife doesn't know it yet....

If it doesn't leak too badly, I'd just keep filling them with oil - note that the leak will be a lot worse if the top swivel bushing is loose, as the seal will not sit properly.
John

[HangOver]

From reading this thread can I assume that it's better to use oil rather than grease, but go for grease if after changing the seals you still get bad leaks.
Does that sound about right?

I have an 81 Rangie, I haven't topped up the swivel housing yet so If it's Oil I should stay Oil?
If it's grease stay grease?

I have heard about this one shot grease is it as good as oil?

[JDNSW]

From reading this thread can I assume that it's better to use oil rather than grease, but go for grease if after changing the seals you still get bad leaks.
Does that sound about right?

I have an 81 Rangie, I haven't topped up the swivel housing yet so If it's Oil I should stay Oil?
If it's grease stay grease?

I have heard about this one shot grease is it as good as oil?

I would never use ordinary grease - but if oil won't stay in you can use semiliquid grease, also known as "one shot" (because it is sold in containers of the right amount for a single swivel).
John

[timberwolf_302]

By all means stick with oil if it doesnt leak. I would if mine didnt already have grease in it.

[RobHay]

If the swivel balls are just pitted, why don't you just get them re-chromed.this should fill in remove most of the pitting, I imagen.

[Aryoch]

Hi

I had the swivel balls on the SWB landy that lives in Tassie Hard re-chromed about 6 years ago and it worked a treat. All the imperfections were filled and hasn't given any problems since. Seem to remember that cost about $60.00 each.

The Stage 1 here in Canberra had similar problems when I picked it up. I actually tried something else with that, which was as mentioned above, using a metal epoxy to fill the pitting. Once i had done that and wet and dried it smooth as I could I actually coated the swivel ball in the POR-15 paint which was a suggestion from the US landrover list, as it dries really hard and really smooth. This has worked well and I have had no leaks 25000k later and had no noticable damage to the coating last time I looked. This was the cheap option at the time, I will hard re-chrome if/when this fix fails.


Cheers

Adrian

[Blknight.aus]

take some pics of what youve got..

Im starting to pull down the joints from Bug 2.0 all I want are the shafts...

if mine are better than yours and you want to pay postage they are yours.

[Dayne]

Thanks for the offer. But I will look into the re chrome.

[OLR-067]

whats the symtoms of lack of lubrication in swivel housing...just noticed today a bit of noise turning left slowly...and a bit of low speed bounce..seemed to be an increase in tyre noise too..I have not had a check of it yet..next weekend I will investigate.I have not engaged the hubs for 4 months or so, will see what that does.The balls are good nick, and does not seem to be any leaks, if there is oil in there...


cheers

paul

[JDNSW]

whats the symtoms of lack of lubrication in swivel housing...just noticed today a bit of noise turning left slowly...and a bit of low speed bounce..seemed to be an increase in tyre noise too..I have not had a check of it yet..next weekend I will investigate.I have not engaged the hubs for 4 months or so, will see what that does.The balls are good nick, and does not seem to be any leaks, if there is oil in there...


cheers

paul

Lack of lubrication in the swivel housing -

If you have free wheeling hubs, the first symptom will be worn swivel bushes - this can be checked by jacking up and testing for free play. If you do not have free wheel hubs, the first symptom is likely to be excessive wear on the universal joint in the swivel, unlikely to be noticed until it starts to make horrible noises.

They symptoms you mention sound more like simply having the hubs engaged and four wheel drive engaged - or the tyre is hitting the spring due to incorrectly adjusted stops.

John

[OLR-067]

the hubs are in free...and nothing has changed with the bump stops..just seems a bit strange...will jack up and check the play...noticed a bit of movement by just trying to move wheel on ground....thought it to be either swivels no lubrication or bearings....anyway..jacking it up should find it.

thanks

paul

[OLR-067]

Ok, just took it next door to work to use the Hoist. No play in passenger side and about 10mm on drivers side....will top up the oil and see what happens...just seems a bit strange...

[isuzurover]

The swivel balls are pitted, (Not rusty) I been told that the if you put new seals with the swivel balls that way it will damage the new seals. So not holding in the oil.

How would you fix this problem?

Epoxy, or even superglue/araldite, works surprisingly well and lasts a long time (metal-epoxy would be best though). Never done it myself but know people who swear by it. rub it back with fine wet and dry - the sandpaper won't damage the chrome.

[isuzurover]

Ok, just took it next door to work to use the Hoist. No play in passenger side and about 10mm on drivers side....will top up the oil and see what happens...just seems a bit strange...

Paul - did you check play top-bottom or side-side? Have a mate stand on the brakes, and you can remove any wheel bearing play and just see what the swivel pins are like.

[OLR-067]

cheers isuzurover...I just checked the up down play...i will give it a go tommorrow since I have now un- ceased the trolley jack. tested the hi and low this arvo, seems ok....checked the oil in swivels, at right level..no leaks...it is probabley just a bearing...

my brother on his S3 used a epoxy on his swivel balls...been about 6 years now and still look the same...a nice hameratite? finish....

paul

[JDNSW]

cheers isuzurover...I just checked the up down play...i will give it a go tommorrow since I have now un- ceased the trolley jack. tested the hi and low this arvo, seems ok....checked the oil in swivels, at right level..no leaks...it is probabley just a bearing...

my brother on his S3 used a epoxy on his swivel balls...been about 6 years now and still look the same...a nice hameratite? finish....

paul

I think the word you are after is hammerite - see www.hammerite.com

John