Hide your rego no?

[p38arover]

On the A4WDM forum, this appeared http://www.4wdmonthly.com.au/forum/showthread.php't=24886


On AusJeep, a forumite has reported a fellow member to the Qld Transport Dept., after reading about mods done to an XJ Cherokee in a "build up" thread.

I know that none of us would do this to a fellow member, but maybe we should all consider who else can read our posts.....


There was a link to a thread on the Jeep forum but the thread has been deleted.

I don't know if any of us have really extreme mods but maybe blanking your rego no. may make sense.

There is, on that thread shown above, some correspondence between the protagonists.

Ron

[shorty943]

Uhmm. Isn't hiding, defacing, obscuring your rego considered a no no by the fun police?

shorty.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Uhmm. Isn't hiding, defacing, obscuring your rego considered a no no by the fun police?

shorty.
He's only referring to posting photos on the forum I think :)

Thanks for the heads up Ron. :)

[shorty943]

Ah. Still appears as if some body considered it serious enough to report it to Transport.

Some times the safety of others must come before personal bents.

Of course you have the right to disagree.

shorty.

[Utemad]

I have always hidden my rego number in online photos as well as anyone elses rego number if I post a pic of their car.
I have nothing to hide but it is one less piece of identifying info out there.

[shorty943]

Good idea. Maybe it was something to do with the vehicles mods?

shorty.

[dmdigital]

Before jumping to conclusions does anyone know the nature of the mod's referred to on the forum in question? Who knows they may have been highly illegal?

That said I would think that just cause its a picture on the forum doesn't even mean its real now days. Have a look at my avatar... it's a 2 door 03MY Disco...no really it is, honest :angel:

[shorty943]

Before jumping to conclusions does anyone know the nature of the mod's referred to on the forum in question? Who knows they may have been highly illegal?

That said I would think that just cause its a picture on the forum doesn't even mean its real now days. Have a look at my avatar... it's a 2 door 03MY Disco...no really it is, honest :angel:

My point exactly in my post above.

shorty.

[Bigbjorn]

I have long wondered if the special glass and associated electrickery used in instant darkening welding helmets could be used over number plates as a defence against revenue cameras. Any comments?

It may well be illegal, but there is no place in a democracy for governments to engage in covert surveillance of the citizens. Governments that do this should not be surprised when the citizens take steps to warn themselves of such surveillance and take steps to defeat such surveillance.

[shorty943]

I have long wondered if the special glass and associated electrickery used in instant darkening welding helmets could be used over number plates as a defence against revenue cameras. Any comments?

It may well be illegal, but there is no place in a democracy for governments to engage in covert surveillance of the citizens. Governments that do this should not be surprised when the citizens take steps to warn themselves of such surveillance and take steps to defeat such surveillance.

Don't know about point 1. but I'll fight by your side on point 2

Any law that must be enforced by threat of punishment is corrupt and should not be entertained.

shorty.

[discowhite]

Ah. Still appears as if some body considered it serious enough to report it to Transport.

Some times the safety of others must come before personal bents.



i have to agree with shorty! its usually thoes of us that live closer to the law than others that get done!

it still should be an issue between the 2 partys to discuss, but in the end it dose come down to duty of care.

cheers phil

[p38arover]

There was another case where the Pedestrian Council reported a 4WD they thought was illegal after seeing it in a magazine or on a website. It wasn't and it was engineered but the owner still had a lot of hassles with the RTA.

Ron

[shorty943]

Thanks Phil. I've been in fire and rescue most of my life, both military, and in my local volunteer brigade. Feels good to have some backup. My old heart thanks you.

you have an especially and safe Christmas mate.

respects from shorty.

[DeeJay]

There was another case where the Pedestrian Council reported a 4WD they thought was illegal after seeing it in a magazine or on a website. It wasn't and it was engineered but the owner still had a lot of hassles with the RTA.

Ron
Yes Ron and those "in the know" would certainly know who the zealot is from the pedestrian council - (Harold Scroobie) who made this poor 4x4 owner's life a misery and all for nought.
Did you ever see "Its a dogs life". Scroobie ( a shire councillor at the time)kept getting this dog impounded- Its name was Fugly- and the owner kept paying the release fee's -$1000's and just let him roam. In the end all the locals started harbouring the dog and the ranger kept searching. The dogs owner was a F100 4x4 owner and a good bloke. I think it gave old Harold reason to go on a crusade against all 4 wheel drives.:(

[Quiggers]

Apart from the fact we're in the journalistic silly season, I'd like to see any real and actual evidence of such.....

But, big brother is watching......

I've got new tyres on my box trailer and wider than standard! Uh-oh!

GQ

[shorty943]

Somebody should blow Harold Scroobie up.

shorty.



(Sometimes you gotta love ol Ted Bullpit.)

[p38arover]

Apart from the fact we're in the journalistic silly season, I'd like to see any real and actual evidence of such.....

The Ped Council issue was reported in, I think, A4WDM after the 4WD was shown there.

Ron

[Quiggers]

Yeah, okay, fair call...

Modifying any Jeep is a serious worry....

or maybe an improvement.....

I really wonder what the hell is going on in American manufacturing,
they really are turning out crap these days. Used banana peels for axles????

Seen USA Fords latest 'sedan'? Makes our dear Falcon look very good....

GQ

[shorty943]

Yeah, okay, fair call...

Modifying any Jeep is a serious worry....

or maybe an improvement.....

I really wonder what the hell is going on in American manufacturing,
they really are turning out crap these days. Used banana peels for axles????

Seen USA Fords latest 'sedan'? Makes our dear Falcon look very good....

GQ

Google up ford f650, Holy sheeeeet.


shorty.

[Quiggers]

Yup, been on the F650 for a while and it's several competitors, just the thing for taking the kids to school........

[tombraider]

I aint blankin mine...

I'm proud of my mods, theyre legal.... And safe...

IMHO illegally modded 4wds do us no favours...

However, the post in question he should have gone direct to the other guy first!

But if ur illegal and unsafe then you shouldnt be there...

I have family... I dont want them sharing the road with anything that isnt engineered/proven...

(Rant off)

But I do feel for the guy, seriously, man that was low.....

[Phoenix]

This has been a long running issue actually. Originally the issue came up with an insurance complany that found out through a 4wd forum the actual cause of damage that had been claimed (the owner being stupid) and a couple of others had issues because of what the insurance company classed as risky behaviour (isn't that just 4wding to us :lol2: ).

Scrubbys complaints about a vehicle in 4wd monthly was the latest one that I knew about. and incidentally I understand the med council started some time after he ran somebody down in a vehicle, can't remember if they died or not in the end. it was either a merc or 4wd he was driving at the time I am led to believe.

[sschmez]

I have long wondered if the special glass and associated electrickery used in instant darkening welding helmets could be used over number plates as a defence against revenue cameras. Any comments?

3M make a reeded plastic that, with the reeds running vertically acts as a lens ..........Straight on = crystal clear .......... slight angle = nothing:D

:wasntme:

[cornerofthegalaxy]

Sschmez - that's handy to know! (Thanks Shorty for asking the Q).

Do you use it on your vehicle at all (rego)?

[cornerofthegalaxy]

Sschmez - i think i better cancel that last question. don't wan't to cause any trouble. oops.

[Outlaw]

as mentioned by a couple above there have actually been a few incidences of DOT getting info from rego's (or could be exaggeration to a degree) but the way i've read it on other forums and magazines seems after the DOT went mad calling in a heap of profiled vehicles out of the magazines that they started blanking.

Just think most people who have a 3' lift or 33's/35's the DOT could probably defect you... but those idiots who go a 5" lift and 2" body and 37" tyres etc. etc. etc. are just asking for trouble (i have a mate who was done recently for just that)

[DionM]

I know that various transport depts look at the modified 4WD mags ... and to me putting a vehicle that's not fully engineered in a mag is just asking for trouble.

In general I must say that I have seen a lot of stuff on forums about home build ups that just leaves me feeling cold. Not that I've dobbed anyone in, but it does worry me ...

[Frenchie]

I have long wondered if the special glass and associated electrickery used in instant darkening welding helmets could be used over number plates as a defence against revenue cameras. Any comments?


You used to be able to buy rego plate holders with a clear plastic window but these were made illegal in WA because the plastic reflected the flash of the camera and obscured the number. Now you aren't allowed to cover the plate with anything.

I have seen advertised a spray on coating to achieve the same thing but this is also illegal.

[LoadedDisco]

I don't think there is much worry on this if an ex mate or jealous girl friend whats to put you in well you will get a call.
If you put a picture of your 4x4 in a mag and it has modifications that stick out as obviously illegal for the state it is registered in and they (Transport Authority) are happy readers of the mag and spot that well bad luck you should not have been an idiot and advertised your illegal car in a mag.
As far as people using your number plates for illegal activities, every time you park you car at a big shopping center you play Russian roulette with will you plates be stolen or not.
Its happening a lot at the moment.

[cornerofthegalaxy]

Sorry guys and girls.

In previous post i said that Shorty has asked the Q about special glass etc. on rego plates, but it was actually Brian Hjelm - sorry about that.

[tombraider]

You used to be able to buy rego plate holders with a clear plastic window but these were made illegal in WA because the plastic reflected the flash of the camera and obscured the number. Now you aren't allowed to cover the plate with anything.

I have seen advertised a spray on coating to achieve the same thing but this is also illegal.

Used all of these...

Radar Detectors
Prismatic lenses
Distortion lenses

You name it I ran it....

Easiest thing....

STOP F-Ing Speeding.....:wasntme:

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

[BigJon]

Easiest thing....

STOP F-Ing Speeding.....:wasntme:

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


Which is fair enough. The trouble is, why do we let our elected governments dictate to us what speeds are safe or unsafe when they clearly have absolutely no idea what they are on about??

New speed limits in the NT are a case in point. The NT government (Labour, I might add) are merrily installing speed limits, demerit points and increased fines while not actually doing a thing about the QUALITY of drivers, which is the biggest problem of all.

[Frenchie]

When I'm in charge......

I will only give licences to the 10% of people that can actually drive.

The others will be slugged an extra 2% income tax (or a kidney if they don't have a job) which will pay for a super efficient public transport system.

The benefits - less pollution, less accidents, hardly any traffic on the roads, more parking. Lovely. :twisted:

[BigJon]

Agreed, but how do you fix it....seriousely....
Better driving schools and longer periods of driving under instruction
Compulsory advanced driving courses for all new licence holders
Limits on power of vehicles held by P platers?
Yearly licence testing for ALL drivers (now THAT would create a huge amount of job opportunities)



That looks to be the way to go. As usual, governments just want to "bandaid" fix things, or worse, look like they are taking action when in reality they are doing nothing productive at all...

[Jamo]

I agree that driver training is very lax here. But no govt wants to restrict licences to any voter group, particularly the young and the old! The young are a vast new manipulatible vote resource; and take licences from the old and you have to put in govt funded infrastructure (ie free buses).

Back onto topic now. I try not to break the law (as my licence is essential to my livelihood) thus permanent rego obscuration is not needed. I also ensure all my mods are legal.

As for blurring my rego here. For me personally, there's no point. I had people here that I didn't know asking what my new Discovery was like before I'd even picked it up! Bush telegraph.. wonderful thing. I think!

[tombraider]

When I'm in charge......

I will only give licences to the 10% of people that can actually drive.

The others will be slugged an extra 2% income tax (or a kidney if they don't have a job) which will pay for a super efficient public transport system.

The benefits - less pollution, less accidents, hardly any traffic on the roads, more parking. Lovely. :twisted:

Frenchie for Prime Minister....

As long as I'm in the 10% :twisted:

And easy, as we all drive Landies....

BAN SEALED ROADS :angel:

[tombraider]

The OLD folk really scare me :eek:
You can't tell me an 85yr old that has to walk with 2 sticks, at 200m per hour, has quick enough reflexes to hit the brakes in need :eek: :eek:

Hit the parking area at the supermarket on pension day to see what I mean
Bingo!!! Thats the sort of driver that turned in front of my wifes Zook 2 years ago...

Made a right turn across my wifes lane with no warning...

Lucky she was in a Lancer, the low front vs Emmas lifted Zook meant she actually drove over the front of the lancer, and landed off to the side of it!

Then the old bat gets out (takes all of 10 minutes, lifting her legs around and then getting her walking thing (stick with 4 feet, not a frame) and 5 minutes of shuffling to get to the side of the road....

:mad::mad::mad:

DRIVING IS A PRIVILEDGE NOT A RIGHT, if they cant meet the "minimum requirements" reaction times etc then Tough Cheddar! No Licence.....

[Frenchie]

Frenchie for Prime Minister....

As long as I'm in the 10% :twisted:

:angel:

I'd ban all Toyonissan drivers as well! :twisted:

I'd also implement my Usefulness Index.......I would make a great dictator...er I mean PM. :eek:

[George130]

No driving over 75 yrs of age
Lifelong licence loss for drink drivers and anyone who has caused a death on the roads
:D :D :D

I don't know what age he did it at but my grandfather actually chose to hand his license in. When he did it he had a gold license and the only accident he had had was another car reversing into his new car the day he bought it. RTA was so impressed they sent him a thank you letter for his driving record and also for choosing to stop driving.

[stusgonesailing]

Edd,
My Grandfather was the same. he handed in his licence at about 80 when he said his reflexes weren't up to it anymore. He was still an excellent driver.

It really highlighted how stupid the RTA is because he had a road train licence, and every year since becoming a pensioner they renewed it for free. not once was he ever checked to see if he could still handle a car let alone a road train:confused:

[George130]

Edd,
My Grandfather was the same. he handed in his licence at about 80 when he said his reflexes weren't up to it anymore. He was still an excellent driver.

It really highlighted how stupid the RTA is because he had a road train licence, and every year since becoming a pensioner they renewed it for free. not once was he ever checked to see if he could still handle a car let alone a road train:confused:

That sounds like the RTA.
Just Hope I realise when I'm to old to drive. Probably be computer controled by then. Mt grandfather lived for his motorbikes.

[100I]

My grandfather handed his in about 5 yr ago or more. He was shattered but he was honest with himself that he was no longer safe. I bought him a motorised scooter recently and you just can't wipe the smile off his dial - some indepedence once again and the costs of taxis & buses were killing him.

[Bigbjorn]

My objection to posted speed limits is that they are arbitrary. Set by politicians, police, and bureaucrats without reference to the actual road conditions. I can accept restrictions in built-up areas, even (reluctantly) the 50kph limit in residential streets, but 100kph on major highways, no way.

I first got a learner's permit in 1957. The speed limits in Qld. then were 30mph in a built-up area and 50mph outside. The cars of the time had poor drum brakes, indirect steering, bad handling, poor lighting, few had turn signals which were not legal anyway. Many cars of the twenties through early 50's were still on the road, with mechanical brakes, indeed, cars were still being made into the fifties with mechanical brakes, steering systems with commonly three or more inches of play, repeatedly retreaded cross ply tyres which many owners ran until they were totally bald or "down to the canvas". Roads were rough, with broken shoulders, many Brisbane streets and much of the major highway network were still unsealed.The Qld. speed limits were raised about 1960 to 40mph in built-up areas and 60mph outside. The 40mph limit was reduced after a short time to 35mph. The only changes since have been with metrification to 60kph and100kph, no increase at all except that some highways are now 110kph. With the exponential improvement in both vehicles and roads, one could expect that the speed limits on highways could be increased to 130 or 140kph. But no, "every k over is a killer" say the elected servants, their tame bureaucrats, and compliant police forces, yet in reality few accidents are caused by speed inappropriate in the prevailing circumstances. Until the early 70's, much of NSW highway network was "unrestricted'. The onus being on the police to prove that a motorist charged with excessive speed in an unrestricted zone was travelling at a dangerous speed ,and the motorist could defend the charge on the basis of no danger. The speed camers are purely revenue raisers like poker machines and have no affect on road safety whatsoever.

[dmdigital]

My objection to posted speed limits is that they are arbitrary. Set by politicians, police, and bureaucrats without reference to the actual road conditions. I can accept restrictions in built-up areas, even (reluctantly) the 50kph limit in residential streets, but 100kph on major highways, no way.

I first got a learner's permit in 1957. The speed limits in Qld. then were 30mph in a built-up area and 50mph outside. The cars of the time had poor drum brakes, indirect steering, bad handling, poor lighting, few had turn signals which were not legal anyway. Many cars of the twenties through early 50's were still on the road, with mechanical brakes, indeed, cars were still being made into the fifties with mechanical brakes, steering systems with commonly three or more inches of play, repeatedly retreaded cross ply tyres which many owners ran until they were totally bald or "down to the canvas". Roads were rough, with broken shoulders, many Brisbane streets and much of the major highway network were still unsealed.The Qld. speed limits were raised about 1960 to 40mph in built-up areas and 60mph outside. The 40mph limit was reduced after a short time to 35mph. The only changes since have been with metrification to 60kph and100kph, no increase at all except that some highways are now 110kph. With the exponential improvement in both vehicles and roads, one could expect that the speed limits on highways could be increased to 130 or 140kph. But no, "every k over is a killer" say the elected servants, their tame bureaucrats, and compliant police forces, yet in reality few accidents are caused by speed inappropriate in the prevailing circumstances. Until the early 70's, much of NSW highway network was "unrestricted'. The onus being on the police to prove that a motorist charged with excessive speed in an unrestricted zone was travelling at a dangerous speed ,and the motorist could defend the charge on the basis of no danger. The speed camers are purely revenue raisers like poker machines and have no affect on road safety whatsoever.


No, don't even get me started on speed limits. The NT looses its derestriction and gets a 130kph speed limit as of 1st January 2007.

Apparently there are many people souveniring the old derestriction signs before they disappear on New Year's eve.

[Bigbjorn]

Australia is larger in area than Europe, yet has only has the population of Greater London. Europeans have major highways without speed limits, or with much higher limits than our quite uncongested highways. We should be able to run the Newell, Warrego, and similar outback highways at 140 or more.

[barney]

this happened to guy in sydney, read it in a letter in one of the 4wd mags a while back.
the guy had a tricked up cruiser he used in his work doing stunts and providing special vehicles for films/ads. Harold Scruby saw the vehicle on the website and dobbed him into the RTA. he badgered them until they inspected his vehicle. after a few visits to his work to inspect it when he wasn't available, they issued an order to comply or his vehicle rego would be cancelled and he would be fined.
they found very little wrong with it because he took his job seriously enough to make sure the vehicle had every mod engineered properly.
as a reaction to that, all of the vehicles featured on the lroc website or in the magazine have their rego numbers altered. my suggestion was to make them all read "SCRUBY" after the man himself, but they thought that might just open the doors to the pr1ck.
hence my ute on the front of the november LROC news, has the YOOT blanked out.

[Turtle61]

Guys, have a read through this:

the impact is 40 times greater (http://www.officeofroadsafety.wa.gov.au/Campaigns/speed_august2006/index.html)

There are some good points there. Given that Australia's car population is probably the oldest in a developed country speed limit increases may not be a welcome change from the physics point of view.

A small speed increase will not get you where you're going all that much faster but will increase the fuel consumption.

I am not even going to go into the road conditions here...

... and the philosophical arguments regarding personal freedom etc is something I am not going to go into either.

Anyway, do your sums, see how much quicker you can realy drive between Sydney and Brisbane given the speed increase on the Freeway sections.

[Bigbjorn]

Anyway, do your sums, see how much quicker you can realy drive between Sydney and Brisbane given the speed increase on the Freeway sections.
In the mid 1960's I was in the used car trade for a while. I used to buy cars in Sydney and organise drivers to take them to Brisbane and follow up myself as Tail End Charlie to assist any who were in need. Our bench mark was twelve hours, Burwood to Fortitude Valley, using the Putty Road and New England Highway. Regular drivers were expected to perform that time. This in cars of the fifties and early sixties. We never had an accident even cruising at up to eighty mph in the few capable cars. Today with the speed limits and speed cameras you can barely make it in twelve hours in modern cars. I once brought up a Chev. Camaro with 327 and 4 speed, drum brakes, in 8 3/4 hours and on another occasion, an AP6 Valiant in 10 1/2 hours. Both occasions I had a brilliant run with traffic both ends. I bought a number of ex highway Patrol Falcons at different times which were 351GT's in the base Falcon 500 body. these were regularly driven up in 10 to 11 hours. At no time di I ever think these average speeds were dangerous. Cars and highways areso much better now that the limits should be increased.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Guys, have a read through this:

the impact is 40 times greater (http://www.officeofroadsafety.wa.gov.au/Campaigns/speed_august2006/index.html)

There are some good points there. Given that Australia's car population is probably the oldest in a developed country speed limit increases may not be a welcome change from the physics point of view.


I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but you've been had by spin intended to justify their revenue generation policies. :(

The research this stuff uses as it's base was a Victorian study that was done by the Monash Uni (Melb) and paid for by the Victorian Government. It was done by a guy (can't remember his name) but he was pro "flash for cash".

Also, the study actually said that a speed of 5k different to the surrounding traffic was likely to multiply your chance of a collision. So, if you were on a 60k limited road, and everyone was driving at 65, and you drove at 60 you increase your chance by x. Of course all the states wishing to push their spin conveniently ignore this little semantic.

Of course the Scruby clones will throw volumes of doctored research and I could throw volumes back including from states in the US that abolished speed limits on highways and had their road tolls slashed.

I'm really not anti speed limit per se. I'm just in favour of realistic and appropriate limits, and more importantly in favour of policing speed as a part of a balanced strategy. Ie one that includes improving roads and driver training. At the moment policing speed is the strategy (and a couple of booze buses which is a very positive thing).

Really, if all this draconian speed enforcement was working, why is the toll on the up? You can argue population increase, but you can also argue that cars are MUCH safer than they were. Bottom line is it's going up government tunnel vision speed enforcement makes little or no difference.

The shame of it is that it's a win win for the government too. This chrissie they will get the spin doctors in full swing. If we have a good toll it's working and we need more enforcement. If it's bad we need more enforcement. All the while it's one of the few revenue streams state governments have where they can make extra money. And isn't it a beauty. :) Show me the money.

[Turtle61]

Captain_Rightfoot, Brian Hjelm

I think you slightly misunderstood my point. I am not saying the government is 'clean' on marketing and 'safety' research. Far from it. However this does not change the fact that increasing speed increases the amount of stopping force and braking distance by a greater factor as it is not a linear relationship. The argument goes beyond revenue and politics.

Now, back in the 50's and 60's (or 90's) driving up the Putty Rd and high speeds was doable - I know (about the 90's anyway). Put 1000 boy racers on the Putty Rd at the same time and things will be different. Combinig a number of other factors the entire equation of potential fatal accident becomes a mess.

Increase in traffic - more cars - increases the chances of accidents (basically you have more of a chance of an idiot running into you or doing something stupid) - actually increased population increases the risk of just about anything nasty. Safety technology goes only so far. So we could agrue that safer cars have offset the increase of population. Speed is still a problem in combination with lack of driver skills and overconfidence.
So my argument is that given the physics of an accident, the braking distance of any vehicle, idiot factor and possible chemical imbalance plus lack of skills all combine to a need of some sort of control. And at the moment speed is the easiest to control or police. I have seen some very nasty accidents in Germany - and that scares the living daylights out of me.

An example: two cars doing over 200kph. One overtakes the other, however miscalculates the distance and on returning back to his lane just clips the car being overtaken with his rear bumper. It feels like a small bump so he keeps going. At those speeds that little 'clip' send the other car's steering into hell. Car goes off the road and rolls a few times. Nasty.

I do agree with the point of 'different' speed. Again, German highways: normal speed is about 130-140kph. You sit in the cerb lane. Anything faster than that goes on the outside. If you get someone VERY slow you need to overtake which becomes interesting: you check for traffic in mirrors - nothing. You check your blind spots - nothing. You indicate and double-check - nothing. As soon as you pull out there is Beemer up your tail end and your'e still doing 150 and he's an inch from your bumper.
This brings up another point: it is safer to travel in a constant stream of traffic where everyone is at the same speed. It's more predictable. The variety of cars these days is so great that we have cars bearly capable of doing 90kph and those that can do 300 easy. We could look at the speed limits as a way of standardising the flow and thus making it safer and more predictable.

Different studies show different results or least results are interpreted in different ways. The only way you could do a valid study is to use the same road, same time-frame, same cars, same people... but given that either increasing or abolishing speed limit will have a psychological effect caused by lack or increase of deaths (and deaths would change the population involved) these sorts of studies cannot be conducted short-term and no pollie will want to be responsible for increased road-toll.

Before anyone jumps up about road-toll increase and speed limtis, what are the statistics? What population sector? What time of year? What vehicle? What time of day? What speed? What is the percentage of population? Is the increase simply an increase in reporting or definition of road-accident related death?... there is so many questions that need to be considered before ANYONE can make an informed decision whether speed kills or not.

I think the whole argument about speeding limits is useless. Don't like the speed limits - do something about it.

[tombraider]

Ah yes.... There are.....

Lies

DAMN LIES

& STATISTICS
:p

[Grizzly_Adams]

Based on Turtle61's last post then in 50 years time even though the vehicles are likely to be much more advanced then the average speed limit will have decreased significantly (80kph highways? 70kph? 60kph?) because we're going to have much more people on the roads all driving different capability vehicles.

I don't think that constantly decreasing speed limits is the way to go, and despite what the government thinks - you just can't save everyone.

[p38arover]

Not that I have anything against old people. I mean...we will all be old one day BUT....when some old guy tells you he drove to hospital after suffering a stroke that left him paralysed down one side...I mean :eek: :eek: :eek:

You have to wonder.....

There's an old bloke driving around here and he's legally blind. His wife gives directions. If I ever see him I will report him.

Ron

[Phoenix]

There is a reason that it's called "Legally Blind" :rolleyes:

Matt4x4. I don't believe frenchies comment was directed at you, nor do I think that it was serious, rather in jest. Your situation is not a good one, and I doubt that any member here would say that it was anything other than regrettable. Best of luck in finding a Donor.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I think the whole argument about speeding limits is useless. Don't like the speed limits - do something about it.

Let's just say I know lots of people who are in the inside of this debate in QLD.

After a discussion with one of them (off the record) we agreed that it was a crock and not really helping. In the end he just said that If I could put up a business case for another way for them to get the money then something could be done.

Until then "speed kills" must continue to be what it is... the title of a business plan. :eek:

[100I]

There's an old bloke driving around here and he's legally blind. His wife gives directions. If I ever see him I will report him.

Ron

boom boom

[p38arover]

Quote:
Originally Posted by p38arover
There's an old bloke driving around here and he's legally blind. His wife gives directions. If I ever see him I will report him.

Ron


boom boom

Hey, it's not me. :D

Ron

[Frenchie]

Matt I apologise if my comments caused offence.....

but it was a joke.

I sympathise fully with your condition, and I am aware of the problems faced by people waiting for organ transplants, which is why when my sister died recently our family agreed to donate her organs.


(And really, you must agree that only a small proportion of the population have adequate driving skills! ;) )

[Bigbjorn]

There's an old bloke driving around here and he's legally blind. His wife gives directions. If I ever see him I will report him.

Ron
My last job was with a Commonwealth Govt. body that had a lot of contact with disabled people. We regularly came across people in receipt of Blind Pensions who not only still had driver's licences but still drove. They usually said that they " just drive down to the shops, I don't drive any distance". What the hell distance has to do with it was beyond me. The pedestrians just walk down to the shops or across the road. You don't have to be totally blind to receive a blind pension but you do have to have very seriously impaired vision and should not drive at all, anywhere, any time. We could have been sacked and faced criminal charges if we dobbed any of these people in to the transport authorities and were found out. This is the craziness of the "privacy code".

As far as the electric scooters go, Camp Hill police got a grandfather on the footpath in Old Cleveland Rd. who blew .34. I saw another old guy on his scooter on the footpath outside the Boundary Hotel, West End, who had passed out, full as a goog, with a decent number of empty pot glasses on the window sill next to him. The police station is across the road.

[VladTepes]

I have long wondered if the special glass and associated electrickery used in instant darkening welding helmets could be used over number plates as a defence against revenue cameras. Any comments?



3M make a reeded plastic that, with the reeds running vertically acts as a lens ..........Straight on = crystal clear .......... slight angle = nothing:D

There's also a plate cover which, while a current is running through it is clear but turn the current off and it blanks out.

Naturally also illegal.

[Turtle61]

Until then "speed kills" must continue to be what it is... the title of a business plan. :eek:

If you wanna look at that way - sure. Everything then becomes just a 'business plan".

[dmdigital]

You mention speed limits and everything goes into overdrive :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

I have lots opinions on it and I believe the NT government is hiding behind statistics that are incorrectly represented.

But lets face anyone driving a series Landy, County or even a Defender isn't worried about speed are we!

[CraigE]

Sppeding fines are just a business until every cent that is raised go's into public education, our roads and safety initiatives. Until then it is a croc and pays for our governments extravagance. Same as fuel excise.
:mad:

[Mick-Kelly]

In Qld the fines go straight back into road works and we still have the worst roads. BTW did anyone see the yearly stats recently for road deaths. The only year (Qld) where they were reduced on the year before was the year cameras were introduced. I'll let you figure that one out yourselves. 324 and counting this year. A little bit better than 674 from memory in about 1974. I believe the populations gone up a little bit since then aswell. :eek:

[Bigbjorn]

Look at the stats for the early 60's and correct for population, no. of licenced drivers, no. of registered vehicles, and k's driven annually. The 60's were truly horrific in comparison with today. I believe seat belts, collapsible steering columns, better brakes and tyres, the almost total elimination of high level intoxicated driving, better emergency medicine, and dramatically better roads have made motoring much, much, safer. Ergo, we should be able to have increased highway speed limits.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

In Qld the fines go straight back into road works and we still have the worst roads. BTW did anyone see the yearly stats recently for road deaths. The only year (Qld) where they were reduced on the year before was the year cameras were introduced. I'll let you figure that one out yourselves. 324 and counting this year. A little bit better than 674 from memory in about 1974. I believe the populations gone up a little bit since then aswell. :eek:
Yes, the population has increased.

Cars are MASSIVELY safer though. Indeed, people that don't have a $$ interest suggest that is what has kept things down as long as they have. You should note that in the years around the introduction of cameras in QLD airbags were rapidly increasing penetration in the fleet.

Mick, yes the $$ from the cameras go back into road works and education. But, apart from spin justifying "speed kills" the totals are very vague and it's unknown whether they have increased at all. In fact, the money that they used to chip in from con rev can be used elsewhere as it is now paid for by the TCO. :wasntme:

[Captain_Rightfoot]

All.. I really don't mean to be totally anti speed enforcement... I'll say again that I think it's an important thing when used in context with a balanced strategy. At the moment it's not. This may surprise you but I pretty much stay within the limit and have only been booked twice. The last time was 10 years ago.

I used to note every time I have my speed checked. I stopped this year in July when I passed 25 times. It's probably closer to 50 now. This year I have been RBT'd once. Last year it was twice, and I wasn't RBT'd at all between 02 and 04. Considering I get checked on average at least 50 times a year it is simply beyond me how the affirmative "speed kills" people can argue it's in context. It really is. :wasntme:

I wouldn't be making this argument if yearly I got my speed tested 5 times, was rbt'd 20 times, and my following distance and general road behaviour was checked daily. I'd be happy if they gave me a new rules book every 5 years when I get a new licence, but no I have to pay for it.

I do have inside knowledge and it's about the money. They spend a lot of tax payers money producing spin to justify it which could be educating people about things that would save far more lives and that annoys me no end. I might have been able to ring my Dad and have a chat to but I can't. I'll try my best to stay out of this now :)

:wasntme: :wasntme:

[EchiDna]

call me ignorant - does being 'speed checked' equate to you passing a speed camera?

[EchiDna]

slightly different take - smokers don't like paying the extra tax every year for cigarettes that is used to pay for their lung cancer treatment, but does the general populous react - no...

I assume nobody will argue that for any given speed zone, anyone well outside this target value (higher or lower) will be at greater risk of an accident...

so why not "charge" those people caught well outside the normal range for a proportion of the overall damage caused? works for me... user pays just like cigarettes :)

what defines a 'normal speed' - thats another arguement all together!

I for one wouldn't drive LONG DISTANCE at 140+km/hr on any Aussie roads - most roads are not up to it, never mind the car or the driver... low population density means less revenues available for each km of road built - you only have to look at the quality of Victorian roads compared to those north of the border - like chaulk and cheese :)

[Captain_Rightfoot]

call me ignorant - does being 'speed checked' equate to you passing a speed camera?
Yes, passing a manned camera van or a hand held laser. We don't have fixed speed cameras in QLD yet... but we will very soon.

[Jamo]

Well, IMHO increasing speed limits can only be done with some kind of driver training regime and even special licences allowing only certain trained drivers go exceed certain levels.

I do a fair amount of distance driving. Nowadays its' mostly less than 500km trips(weekly), but there's the occasional (6 a year) trip to Perth (700km one way). Before I came here once every two or three months, i'd fly to Kununurra and then drive through to Broome in two days.

IMO, increases in speed have an exponential effect upon increases in fatigue. I.e the faster you go, the quicker you get fatigued.

Spin/ business plans/govt conspiracies aside, every week I motor down the highway at 110km and get passed by loads and loads of folks for whom life just can't move fast enough (note the faster life goes the closer death comes).

The vast majority of those speeding vehicles do not maintain a controlled direction on the road. They drift and bounce all over the place. These aren't old cars, but relatively new fords/holdens etc. And a Landcruiser at 140kph is a frightening thing to watch go down the road. (although not as frightening as an unladen, speeding road train whose rear trailer is swinging across the entire highway like I saw last week!)

If you want to increase speed limits, you need more enforcement, special licence classes/endorsements, the vehicles themselves must be checked annually and their registration endorsed, and the individual drivers need advanced training.

I don't want to lose anyone I love this Christmas, so drive safely!

[Grizzly_Adams]

You know I've just spent the past 5 years living overseas.

Apart from some places in Asia most countries I visited had 120kph as the posted speed limit on motorways. Even in Germany as not all motorways are open-limit autobahns (in fact there are relatively few left).

UK / America / mainly Europe... though France is 130kph (just to be different).

The road conditions and the type of vehicles I saw on those roads were no different, better, or worse than ours.

As usual we (Australia) are procrastinating over how to do things "better" when the rest of the world has already taken the step ahead. :confused:

[Turtle61]

As usual we (Australia) are procrastinating over how to do things "better" when the rest of the world has already taken the step ahead. :confused:

I'd have to disagree. There are many points were Aus is trailing behind but there are lots of other 'things' that Aus is far more ahead than a lot of Europe.
Public health, welfare, education... not to mention anti-discrimination and accident prevention. Did you guys know that Australia gave women voting rights in 1902 and the so-called progressive, equal-rights-for-all Switzerland only in 1971?

Aus lags behind mainly on the technology front - the market is just not big enough - as the CEO of Toyota once put it: Australian market is chicken-**** compared to others.

... but the worst thing is our beloved government is NOT learing from other countries' mistakes...

[sclarke]

i dont have a problem as i used to keep camila legal, every mod was done to the Vic roads specs and was always updated with my insurance company...... well i tried anyhow....

[Grizzly_Adams]

I'd have to disagree. There are many points where Aus is trailing behind but there are lots of other 'things' that Aus is far more ahead than a lot of Europe.
Public health, welfare, education... not to mention anti-discrimination and accident prevention. Did you guys know that Australia gave women voting rights in 1902 and the so-called progressive, equal-rights-for-all Switzerland only in 1971?

Aus lags behind mainly on the technology front - the market is just not big enough - as the CEO of Toyota once put it: Australian market is chicken-**** compared to others.

Actually yes I did know that because that's where I spent a large part of my life for the past 5+ years. However if you want to compare Australia to Switzerland then I'd much rather have the infrastructure environment as well as the more truly democratic government system they have then the one we have in Australia.

The welfare system in UK is second to none - why do you think most illegal immigrants from Africa etc. head straight up through Spain and France to get there? In Switzerland if you lose you job then the gov. pays 80% of your income for up to 2 years whilst you try and secure another job - of course after that you get zip but if you can't get a job in 2 years then there is something really wrong... not to mention the health system in Switzerland is fantastic - sure you gotta pay for it (no "public" health you *must* have private health insurance in Switzerland else you are kicked out of the country) but hey hospitals aren't cheap and with the government regulating what minimum standards are offered you're pretty much covered. Education, well that's comparative. Ask anyone what they think of our education system and you'll get varying responses... and as it changes so much it's hard to grade from year to year. I've known plenty of smart Swiss / German / Austrian / British / Polish / Slovakian / Croatian / American people so obviously their education systems can't be too bad either.

Sure Switzerland didn't give the vote to women until the early 1970's - but is that the only reason to completely disregard everything else they have achieved and how much further in so many ways they are then we are? Sorry I just don't see that point as a valid argument. Different people in different countries react and response in different ways, they may have just been more cautious then other countries - do we know the entire picture? Yes? No? I sure don't, and I'm not judging them because of it.

Australia is far from lagging behind in the technology front - all the bells and whistles you can get on new vehicles in Europe you can also get on pretty much any new vehicle in Australia. A factory is a factory - the same car manufactures who spit out cars for Europe also spit out cars for the rest of the world so everyone ends up with the same gadgets. Any local factories then have to include those gadgets on their vehicles in order to "keep up" with their competitors... and so on and so forth.

Actually because we are such a small market (and I do agree this is true) then all this means is that we will have little or no influence on what new / other features are delivered with our vehicles and end up being "stuck" with whatever features the vehicle manufacturers decide. What this basically translates into is we get all the same gadgets that everyone else does, and no more. Why? Because it's easier / cheaper for the vehicle manufacturers to ship a "standard" set of base features instead of installing them afterwards as options.

What Australia is lacking behind in is keeping up with the standards. For example most "ADR"'s are based almost entirely on the Euro standards from at least a couple of years previous.

Also if you're living in Switzlerand you may want to change your profile location from saying you are living in the land of Cuckoo clocks, as the Swiss will be the first to point out that Cuckoo clocks actually originated in Bavaria (area of Germany) NOT Switzerland - however the Swiss are never ones to object to taking peoples money so they sell the Cuckoo clocks all over the place :D

Having said all that the biggest problem that Australia faces is that we are such a large country with a comparatively small populace. Our governments look overseas and drool over the amount of people in countries over there (even though we as the Australian public cringe at the same thought) because of the tax $$$ that each extra person can bring per square mile. It's because of this issue that our government should be thinking smarter on how to spend our tax dollars to make the most of what we do have, instead they spend all their time taxing the populace (I include mobile camera speeding fines in this bracket - I am much more leniant to stationary cameras) in every way / shape / form possible and offering stupid incentives for 16 yo's to get pregnant so they can increase the population base and hopefully one day reach their dream of overpopulation (and hence much more tax $$$ that will probably get spent more on their pay rises then on necessary infrastructure like water & power because by then it will all be sold off and they will claim it's "not their problem").


Tschüß :)

[VladTepes]

Is Australia 'behind' many European countries ?

There are plenty of Land Rovers over there.

Count the Landies you see today. ALso count the 'yotas.


Hmm, case made I think.

[Jamo]

Hmmmmmmmmm case!!:beer:

[cartm58]

one other reason not to post your rego, is thieves, Peter Luxon in Victoria had his cruisers all tricked up, turbo disesels, Roberts Air Lockers etc etc had an article in 4x4 and within week of article being in stands both vehicles stolen from his workshops and has happened to couple other people.

Sometimes it doesnt pay to advertise how beautiful your pride and joy is as it just makes others covet what you got

[p38arover]

one other reason not to post your rego, is thieves, Peter Luxon in Victoria had his cruisers all tricked up, turbo disesels, Roberts Air Lockers etc etc had an article in 4x4 and within week of article being in stands both vehicles stolen from his workshops and has happened to couple other people.

In Luxon's case, it wouldn't have mattered if the plates were obscured or not. He's well known and so is his business.

I saw this tricked up dark-coloured D2 in A4WDM that looks OK. I know it hangs around a private school in Sydney's west near Parramatta. It might be worth grabbing. I'd take his other Landies as well. :D

Ron

[VladTepes]

lucky - mine is bog std ordinary !!

[tdi130dualcab]

We need someone realy good with photo-shop.

Then we can pst a Pic, including rego plates of a standard- non modified landie, with a great big list of "non-main-roads aproved" mods, skite about how good it is, (this is where photo shop comes in) and using pototshop, show a pic of an excesivly mod'd vehicle, make sure we say we take the kids to school every day in it.

Then we can sit back and have a beer and wait for the fun police to turn up!



(then be picked on for the rest of our driving life!)

Cheers

tdi130dualcab

[p38arover]

The rego no. on the pics to belong to a certain Subaru Forester owner from Sydney's North Shore. Someone in the Pedestrian Council of Aus. :D