Bloody rip off.......

[feral]

I have booked in the D2 for the things that I do not have the expertise to service at 120,000 ks.

I just so happen to have a look at the booking in sheet and the prices are in already :o


Here they are and I feel I am funding their Christmas breakup party.

Auto service $340
ACE service $250
Check codes $88

The auto was serviced two years ago and came to $263.

Can anyone guide me on what I believe is a ripoff from an aftermarket service specialist?

So this is Christmas,
Lyndon.

[rangieman]

I have booked in the D2 for the things that I do not have the expertise to service at 120,000 ks.

I just so happen to have a look at the booking in sheet and the prices are in already :o


Here they are and I feel I am funding their Christmas breakup party.

Auto service $340
ACE service $250
Check codes $88

The auto was serviced two years ago and came to $263.

Can anyone guide me on what I believe is a ripoff from an aftermarket service specialist?

So this is Christmas,
Lyndon.

geez i hope this isnt from someone that all us vics have been raving about in your area :cool:

maybe they need some expencive crissy presents and decided to put there prices up:eek:

id seek a 2nd quote:angel:

[ladas]

I had my service done down your way - Boronia Road - no name - no pack drill - and I was astonished at what they charged for the filter in the auto

It was about 4 times what you can buy it for from British Four Wheel Drive

HYM1164.. ZF TRANSMISSION SERVICE KIT (http://www.british4wd.com/xcart/product.php?productid=1918&cat=361&page=1)
SKU: HYM1164..

SERVICE KIT FOR ZF TRANSMISSION, CONTAINS FILTER, O RINGS & PAN GASKET

Our price: $AUD 66.00

[away]

$88.00 to check codes? What a joke! You know how long that really takes don't you? Find another place to get your car done.

[tombraider]

$88.00 to check codes? What a joke! You know how long that really takes don't you? Find another place to get your car done.

True, but then again... You know how much the gear to do it cost dont you?

Dont forget... SOme of us outlay substantial amounts of $$$$ to have these devices... And need to make them pay for themselves eventually, plus updates, repairs to systems/cables all has to be a factor in pricing.

I believe its a little too much, but not that bad.

[hiline]

You know how much the gear to do it cost dont you?


:eek: :eek: that i do ;)

[away]

True, but then again... You know how much the gear to do it cost dont you?

Dont forget... SOme of us outlay substantial amounts of $$$$ to have these devices... And need to make them pay for themselves eventually, plus updates, repairs to systems/cables all has to be a factor in pricing.

I believe its a little too much, but not that bad.

I don't buy your argument...

Firstly the gear is depreciated over time so effectively is revenue neutral in that regard.

Secondly I could safely assume that he cost of purchase is spread over all of the vehicle services where it is used and at about 11.36 uses per thousand dollars spent to buy the gear, it doesn't take long to get your dough back.

Thirdly, was it necessary to do it anyway? Unless the customer has a problem, should the code check be required? With my current Pajero (God I'm glad I'm selling it soon), the codes have needed to be checked just once in 105,000 Km because I was getting specific symptoms.

Over servicing in the motor industry is as bad as over servicing in the medical industry - both are rorts.

[tombraider]

I don't buy your argument...

Firstly the gear is depreciated over time so effectively is revenue neutral in that regard.

Secondly I could safely assume that he cost of purchase is spread over all of the vehicle services where it is used and at about 11.36 uses per thousand dollars spent to buy the gear, it doesn't take long to get your dough back.

Thirdly, was it necessary to do it anyway? Unless the customer has a problem, should the code check be required? With my current Pajero (God I'm glad I'm selling it soon), the codes have needed to be checked just once in 105,000 Km because I was getting specific symptoms.

Over servicing in the motor industry is as bad as over servicing in the medical industry - both are rorts.

Accountant are we?? :D

I for one, upon outlaying $15k want to make my money back now not over 5 years of revenue/depreciation etc....

I also know that the RRS/D3 modules are going to hit me another $3k

So who pays up front... Oh yeah... Me :( And yes, eventually I break even, then make profit if lucky....

But in the meantime, I'm shy $19k less whatever I make in the interim.

And the codes should be checked every service, not just because things are wrong...

****! Thats like leaving plugs and filters alone because the vehicles running fine. Checking codes/filters/oil for signs of trouble often prevents larger issues.

However, I do agree overcharging is rife....

[Wortho]

Hi guys, in the spirit of overcharging i just recently lost my rear diff (when entering a roundabout how boring). The centre dropped out and munched itself the crown wheel and pinion were fine, i had another diff where the crown and pinion were shot but the centre was fine so i wanted to swap the good parts of both diffs together. A certain parts and repairs place that say they do "All 4x4's" wanted "at least $300 for labour as it's quite a big job", went to newcastle gearbox and diff $60 and a day later all done no fuss to easy. Now i know you can pay a bit extra to get people who know Landrovers to work on your car but that is a huge difference.

[away]

Accountant are we?? :D

I for one, upon outlaying $15k want to make my money back now not over 5 years of revenue/depreciation etc....

I also know that the RRS/D3 modules are going to hit me another $3k

So who pays up front... Oh yeah... Me :( And yes, eventually I break even, then make profit if lucky....

But in the meantime, I'm shy $19k less whatever I make in the interim.

And the codes should be checked every service, not just because things are wrong...

****! Thats like leaving plugs and filters alone because the vehicles running fine. Checking codes/filters/oil for signs of trouble often prevents larger issues.

However, I do agree overcharging is rife....

Hmmmm, yes, I remember the insurance companies getting their money back straight after 9/11 too....

You run your business your way, I run mine my way I guess. I make most of my capital purchases from accumulated funds - rather than accumulating debt. I do know what you mean though, I had to purchase a $50,000+ fourbie, $10,000 worth of GPS equipment, Satellite phone and PC's all at once to do what I'm doing now. I just knew that it would all be worth it in a few years time.

I still think it is a pretty nefarious argument that the codes need to be checked regardless. With all of the lights, buzzers, electronic spinny things that warn me when something is wrong, why wouldn't I know if there was a problem? Isn't that why the electronics feed audio visual info back to the driver? Why would a problem be hiding itself deep in the bowells of the computer and not let me know?

[tombraider]

Yes, the insurance co's sure made the money back fast :mad:

I'm NOT defending overpricing, but reasonable pricing is IMHO fair...

Its also different, 1 man show vs workshop...

Me, I do the work, its my time so my rate is my choice... But a workshop has tradies (use term losely) on hourly rate.

Factor in time, wear, depreciation, profit etc... And it could add up.

Me, well, $20 will see ya straight :) sort of thing!

This is what makes life so interesting..... CHOICE....

Same as D3 vs X5 or similar.........

Both nice, 1 useful and nice, 1 useless and glitzy.... We makes our choice

[BigJon]

Why would a problem be hiding itself deep in the bowells of the computer and not let me know?

Leaking fuel injector loom in TD5 engines. Often the first indication of a problem are injector fault codes being logged. No warning lights, no rough running, just the computer remembering that things aren't all as they should be.

The average car driver (for want of a better term) doesn't have the first clue about warning lights anyway. How many people have heard someone complaining of the low oil level light coming on, or the battery failure light coming on?

[feral]

heh, heh......chill guys, it not all that bad.:p


I'm not ready to slash my wrists but...

Auto service, filter, pan gasket, 0 ring x 2, oil = $263...9/11/04.

Auto service, filter, pan gasket, 0 ring x 2, oil = $340...today.

So what's the accountant in all of us now.

Is it depreciation or inflation :confused:

[ak]

I for one still believe you pay for what you get ( that said don't want to get ripped off either). I know my Landie mechanic is a little dearer than you average mechanic however I am just not prepared to trust someone to work on my D2 that does not know Land Rovers. At least I know the car is in the best possible hands and I am not paying someone to learn about LR's as they go.

[Quiggers]

It's because everything is going up and it starts with the little simple things.

A year ago a tub of margarine for 99c - now $1.49
A year ago a kilo of apples for $1.49 - now $3.49
A year ago a kilo of bananas for $2 - now $10 or more.
A year ago a kilo of spuds for $1 - now $2.50

And on it goes.....

(Good thing I get avocados for 20 cents a pop).

Then there is the great fuel ripoff, but I think you get mt point.

And they govt reckons inflation is about 3%, yeah, right......

GQ

[amtravic1]

Well,
I got my auto rebuilt by Knox Automatics in Rowville about 16 months ago for $2800 however they said they would not do another one for that price, something about being bloody heavy etc:) :) :) .

I had the transmission serviced there in October for $150.00. Cant see why it would cost much more than that.

Ian

[crump]

I got a full service for my TD5 including all fluids and filters, diffs etc for $400 by a reputable workshop up this way.

[tombraider]

I got a full service for my TD5 including all fluids and filters, diffs etc for $400 by a reputable workshop up this way.

Working on using decent oils (and approved coolant) at around RRP

Filter Kit $90.00
10L Engine Oil $70.00
5L Gear oil $50.00
Auto Fluid $50.00
T/C Oil $25.00
OAT Coolant $40.00
Brake Fluid $30.00

Total Parts $355.00

Labour was around $45.00 for the lot??????

May I ask (and not stirring, just really curious)...

1. What Oil spec/brand are in (A).engine (B).diffs (C).TC (D).Gbox/Trans???

2. What coolant did they use? What colour is it?

3. Did they fully flush if its an auto?

4. Did they use 'A' spec parts? (A spec is OEM/OEM manufacturer)

5. Did they Grease the vehicle?? Properly??? Including fitting the Zerks where there are blanks, then removing after?

6. Did you check your diffs? Did they actually change the fluid? This is so common its scary...

7. Did you check the TC for signs the plugs were removed? Its a sure sign fluids have been changed.

Reason I ask, is either his oils, fluids etc were dirt cheap or he works for free! :D

And if not a LR dealer, what coolant did he use?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

It's because everything is going up and it starts with the little simple things.

A year ago a tub of margarine for 99c - now $1.49
A year ago a kilo of apples for $1.49 - now $3.49
A year ago a kilo of bananas for $2 - now $10 or more.
A year ago a kilo of spuds for $1 - now $2.50

And on it goes.....

(Good thing I get avocados for 20 cents a pop).

Then there is the great fuel ripoff, but I think you get mt point.

And they govt reckons inflation is about 3%, yeah, right......

GQ
try limes for $16 a kilo---
from fiji--

what a joke.

(please excuse the hijack,,,,,,,,,,,:oops2:)

[crump]

Working on using decent oils (and approved coolant) at around RRP

Filter Kit $90.00
10L Engine Oil $70.00
5L Gear oil $50.00
Auto Fluid $50.00
T/C Oil $25.00
OAT Coolant $40.00
Brake Fluid $30.00

Total Parts $355.00

Labour was around $45.00 for the lot??????

May I ask (and not stirring, just really curious)...

1. What Oil spec/brand are in (A).engine (B).diffs (C).TC (D).Gbox/Trans???

2. What coolant did they use? What colour is it?

3. Did they fully flush if its an auto?

4. Did they use 'A' spec parts? (A spec is OEM/OEM manufacturer)

5. Did they Grease the vehicle?? Properly??? Including fitting the Zerks where there are blanks, then removing after?

6. Did you check your diffs? Did they actually change the fluid? This is so common its scary...

7. Did you check the TC for signs the plugs were removed? Its a sure sign fluids have been changed.

Reason I ask, is either his oils, fluids etc were dirt cheap or he works for free! :D

And if not a LR dealer, what coolant did he use?

ok I got the docket here, you tell me what I didnt get,
Oil filter TD5 $19.50
Synpower 5w/40 Synthetic 8l @$88.00
Fuel Filter TD5 $58
Centrifugal Filter Element TD5 Genuine Rover $38
Filter air TD5 Deisel $26
HP Gear Oil 80/90 Valvoline 6.8l @ $44.88
Dura Gear oil 75/85 Valvoline2.67L @$25.36
and a few bits for $16.50 and $160 Labour total $476.24

this was the 40000km service as per the warranty so I may have missed out on some stuff but For $160, labour seems ok to me.Oh yeah, when i said all fluids I forgot Brake fluid and coolants so I've mislead you there.:D They also lubed the drivetrain, replaced the wiper blades, tightened the raduis arms, replaced a few bulbs and did a brake, steering and suspension check, and their not a dealer but they only work on Landys and Minis.

[tombraider]

Looks good!!! Good service...

And yeah, brakes and coolant makes the difference....

So yes, about right for a decent priced service and lube :cool:

Thanks for taking time to answer.

[crump]

Looks good!!! Good service...

And yeah, brakes and coolant makes the difference....

So yes, about right for a decent priced service and lube :cool:

Thanks for taking time to answer.

yeh, I was happy,bout half what the dealers were charging me and done in a quarter of the time, but the warranty is over now so I'll be doing my own and taking your advice and switching to Penrite and annoying the crap outa guys like you with questions.:D :D

[George130]

Fault code flush in Canberra $110 by dealer.
Only other place local quoted my $85 and then only charged $55 as it was a quick job.

[feral]

Ok....

The damage has been done and I have survived to tell the tale :eek:

I received the usual cost increases, wages....blah, blah so there was no point but to just cop it.

The auto is serviced every 40,000 k's which is about normal for any vehicle. The LR recommendation is once only at 40,000 service. Is there any advantage by following this?

For the codes I had them looked at and removed at the 100,000 k service.
The faults are....

Air flow circuit fault logged.
EGR valve stuck open logged.
Injector faults.
Pressure sensor inconsistant..this trip logged.
Ambient pressure circuit fault logged low.
Injector faults 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 open circuit detected.
SRS faults..open circuit to RH pretensioner.

This time...No faults :D:D:D:D:D apart from the RH seat belt pretensioner.

The ACE filter was changed and the oil replaced. They do not bleed the entire system so there is minimal lost fluid. The filter & plug cost $82.

So thats it. I'm $700 poorer but it's just magic jumping back in it after a good service.

Absolutely.

[p38arover]

I still think it is a pretty nefarious argument that the codes need to be checked regardless. With all of the lights, buzzers, electronic spinny things that warn me when something is wrong, why wouldn't I know if there was a problem? Isn't that why the electronics feed audio visual info back to the driver? Why would a problem be hiding itself deep in the bowells of the computer and not let me know?

A lot of faults on the P38A are logged but don't appear on the Message Centre screen. Ypu need to get them out of the system. These include ABS faults, engine management faults, EAS faults, etc.

Re cost to read codes, the diagnostic computers I've used are incredibly slow and painful to use. Checking anything can quickly consume an hour. I suspect thios is due to the comms protocol used.

Speaking of costs, a poster on the RR forum last week mentioned the dealer charges in his part of the UK are 120 pounds per hour. That's A$300 per hour!

Ron

[DionM]

For those of you who want to read codes, buy yourself an ODB-II compliant reader.

I have one that plugs into my PC, but there are many more that are standalone units. I'm pretty sure the D2/D3 and probably the P38A are OBD-II compliant as they were sold in the US (my Freelander and Jeep - obviously - are).

Mine cost me $225. I've not used it in the Freeo but have used it in the Jeep, as well as retreiveing fault codes mine allows me to run software that accurately logs output of sensors, throttle position and a heap of other variables 'on the fly' - useful for diagnostics. I've run it using a laptop on the seat but will soon buy an adapter cable to connect it to my Pocket PC.

I bought mine (an Elmscan) from here http://www.motorscan.com.au/ there is plenty of free software around too.

Note that OBD-II is NOT the same as factory specific (e.g. the LR software) however it is a good start.

[JDNSW]

For those of you who want to read codes, buy yourself an ODB-II compliant reader.

I have one that plugs into my PC, but there are many more that are standalone units. I'm pretty sure the D2/D3 and probably the P38A are OBD-II compliant as they were sold in the US (my Freelander and Jeep - obviously - are).

Mine cost me $225. I've not used it in the Freeo but have used it in the Jeep, as well as retreiveing fault codes mine allows me to run software that accurately logs output of sensors, throttle position and a heap of other variables 'on the fly' - useful for diagnostics. I've run it using a laptop on the seat but will soon buy an adapter cable to connect it to my Pocket PC.

I bought mine (an Elmscan) from here http://www.motorscan.com.au/ there is plenty of free software around too.

Note that OBD-II is NOT the same as factory specific (e.g. the LR software) however it is a good start.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Landrover, in common with a lot of other manufacturers, are compliant - but with all sorts of added features, which the OBD reader cannot access. I expect this will include things like ACE for example.

John

[Jamo]

Given the cost of the LR unit and software, $88 seems fair to me.

It's not just a matter of depreciation. Depreciation can only be done in accordance with ATO schedules and many items of kit don't effectively last as long as the ATO says; either physically or functionally. And even then, depreciation only covers the 30% tax component. You've still got to fork out the cash and there's an opportunity cost on the money.

It is good business sense to amortise the cost of any necessary equipment over the shortest viable time. Depreciability is just a bonus.

[justinc]

I spent $29,000 on a Rovacom touchscreen unit 3 years ago when I first opened the doors, I then last year bought a RC lite, which I can run on my laptop and upgrade bit by bit. I charge $88 per code erasure, or diagnostic hookup to enable me to find and repair faults. This is charged once PER VEHICLE PER FAULT only. If I have to continually access the codes for repeated checking or resetting during the repair i don't charge $88 each time. I think the charge is fair and reasonable for the customer if the job/ information is required by them. I don't charge them again if the same fault appears, unless they want me to keep resetting it and won't fix it.( IE SRS lamps...)
Some of my customers want to buy a RC lite for themselves, and I encourage them to do so if they want. After all, they are pretty cheap and work well. And don't forget, it is one thing to check for fault codes etc, but if you don't know why they are there and how to repair the problem, then you are not using this valuable tool to its potential.
Over the course of a complicated ABS sensor fault finding job, would the customer prefer to pay $88 to have the correct wheel sensor identifiied, or pay a mechanic by the hour to substitute each one until the faulty one is replaced?
If the vehicles get repaired and stay fixed, people are happy. My hourly rate was increased twice over the course of 12 months, and I've never been busier.
There are some real problems in this industry, I can fill pages up with some of the things i've seen and been asked to repair,and no doubt so could lots of others.

JC

[V8Hybrid]

For those of you who want to read codes, buy yourself an ODB-II compliant reader.

I have one that plugs into my PC, but there are many more that are standalone units. I'm pretty sure the D2/D3 and probably the P38A are OBD-II compliant as they were sold in the US (my Freelander and Jeep - obviously - are).

Mine cost me $225. I've not used it in the Freeo but have used it in the Jeep, as well as retreiveing fault codes mine allows me to run software that accurately logs output of sensors, throttle position and a heap of other variables 'on the fly' - useful for diagnostics. I've run it using a laptop on the seat but will soon buy an adapter cable to connect it to my Pocket PC.

I bought mine (an Elmscan) from here http://www.motorscan.com.au/ there is plenty of free software around too.

Note that OBD-II is NOT the same as factory specific (e.g. the LR software) however it is a good start.

Standard OBD-II scanners will only read engine faults, they will not read SLAB, Gearbox SRS ect faults, even then the faults they list for engine are not complete as Testbook, autologic or rovacom. We have Autologic and we test a comon hand held scanner (wont name it cos it was crap) and pluged it into a vehicle we knew had engine faults, if I remember right it didn't pick up 2 faults, where autologic did.

(PS we charge $77 per plugin most cases, some we do for nothing if your a good customer. Just to get our money back after 5 years plus all upgrades it still owes us money, but makes our lives easier)

[justinc]

(PS we charge $77 per plugin most cases, some we do for nothing if your a good customer. Just to get our money back after 5 years plus all upgrades it still owes us money, but makes our lives easier)[/QUOTE]


I rest my case.

JC

[George130]

There are some real problems in this industry, I can fill pages up with some of the things i've seen and been asked to repair,and no doubt so could lots of others.

JC

Thats why a good reputation is worth it in the industry. I will try the guy friends tell me is good over a big flash workshop. Some of the guys I use are retired or work from home and watching them work you see the diference, just don't ask them to hurry.

[feral]

What utter nonsense everyone is talking about here :o oops, have I gone to far :banban:


I thought it all came down to overheads, pure and simple. As a business you make (or your bank!!) the choice on either a large or small overhead.

When the owner of your workshop drives around in a new Range Rover, the Service Manager gets a new Discovery for a couple of years, the workshop you could eat your lunch off, I know where my money is going to.

It certainly not going into the 'special' needs of my vehicle because those costs are relatively fixed. The same type of oil that went in you could buy at Supercrap!!

Anyway RANT OVER :clap2:

[DionM]

Standard OBD-II scanners will only read engine faults, they will not read SLAB, Gearbox SRS ect faults, even then the faults they list for engine are not complete as Testbook, autologic or rovacom. We have Autologic and we test a comon hand held scanner (wont name it cos it was crap) and pluged it into a vehicle we knew had engine faults, if I remember right it didn't pick up 2 faults, where autologic did.


You're absolutely correct - as I mentioned it is not the same as the dedicated unit. It is simply a start and for me personally it helps me understand if there is a basic fault or something trickier.